Slog

Slog Music

Music, Nightlife,
and Drinks

Tuesday, September 1, 2009

Asexuality for Beginners

Posted by on Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 10:23 AM

From the homepage of the Asexual Visibility and Education Network:

Asexual people have the same emotional needs as anyone else, and like in the sexual community we vary widely in how we fulfill those needs. Some asexual people are happier on their own, others are happiest with a group of close friends. Other asexual people have a desire to form more intimate romantic relationships, and will date and seek long-term partnerships. Asexual people are just as likely to date sexual people as we are to date each other.

I'll probably be accused of asexophobia for suggesting that asexuals who date "sexual people" are obligated to disclose their asexuality by the third date. Asexuals may have the same emotional needs as anyone else, but most of us sexuals—heterosexuals, homosexuals, bisexuals—expect to have our emotional and sexual needs met in our long-term partnerships. Someone who is incapable of meeting a sexual's needs has no business dating a sexual in the first place, if you ask me. At the very least asexuality must be disclosed. Moving on:

Figuring out how to flirt, to be intimate, or to be monogamous in a nonsexual relationships can be challenging...

You think?

 

Comments (180) RSS

Oldest First Unregistered On Registered On Add a comment
1
I hate the completely incorrect use of the term "asexul". Woudn't "nonsexual" be a better term? Asexual defines something that breeds with itself or procreates in a non-gendered way. "Asexuality" in this context indicates someone that does not procreate at all. Can't we find a word that doesn't abuse the scientific definition wholesale?
Posted by Faber on September 1, 2009 at 10:28 AM · Report this
danindowntown 2
When did asexuality become a sexual identity????

I agree w/Dan an asexual has no business dating a sexual unless the sexual and asexual are ok with the sexual finding sex outside their asexual relationship (my head hurts now) and the asexual should disclose their "orientation" on or before the first date.
Posted by danindowntown on September 1, 2009 at 10:29 AM · Report this
Andrew Cole 3
If the argument is that asexuality is another orientation like any other, isn't that the sort of thing you'd need to clue your partner in on, anyway? I mean, what, do asexuals get to hang out in the closet and still be cool? How does that work?
Posted by Andrew Cole on September 1, 2009 at 10:34 AM · Report this
very bad homo 4
Pretty soon they will be wanting their own parade.
Posted by very bad homo on September 1, 2009 at 10:37 AM · Report this
Urgutha Forka 5
Are asexuals against orgasms in general or just sex? Are they cool on masturbating? If not, wtf? It's like denying yourself free roller coaster rides.
Posted by Urgutha Forka on September 1, 2009 at 10:37 AM · Report this
danindowntown 6
@ 1 I agree with you on misusing words but in this case it looks like asexual can be used to describe a person that is not interested in sex:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionar…
Posted by danindowntown on September 1, 2009 at 10:51 AM · Report this
kim in portland 7
Interesting. So, they are inborn eunuchs, and are without any desire for sexual release?
Posted by kim in portland http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/fast-paced_video_provides_a_fu.html on September 1, 2009 at 10:52 AM · Report this
8
This sounds reminiscent of the monosexual movement of the 70s/80s, that attempted to destigmatize being alone. Whenever you would go out, you were self-contained. Their battle cry was something like, "we just want to be left alone - by ourselves."
Posted by terrina on September 1, 2009 at 10:53 AM · Report this
jmahlon 9
i know i would never want to date one.
Posted by jmahlon on September 1, 2009 at 10:54 AM · Report this
10
Asexuals can go not fuck themselves, IMHO.
Posted by Dave M on September 1, 2009 at 10:59 AM · Report this
Will in Seattle 11
People who are asexual need to state so very early on in the process.

I know a number of unhappily married couples where one partner was asexual but felt obligated to overperform during courtship (to get married), while the other one dialed it down out of respect - and then they realized they had different expectations as to frequency and desire.

It's not fun.
Posted by Will in Seattle http://www.facebook.com/WillSeattle on September 1, 2009 at 11:01 AM · Report this
12
You'd think monogamy would be the easiest thing. . . mono-monogamy.
Posted by Chicago Fan on September 1, 2009 at 11:02 AM · Report this
Chris in Vancouver WA 13
@ 7 - Kim, I would imagine there are folks as you describe, but I suspect that many of the people who identify as "asexual", and are celibate and don't get turned on sexually, are this way because of issues in childhood (rape, molestation, very weird childhood with weak or non-existent sexual boundaries). That's fine, no judgement - I consider "no sex" as valid a choice as "straight sex" or "gay sex" - but, once again, terminology can be confusing.
Posted by Chris in Vancouver WA on September 1, 2009 at 11:02 AM · Report this
14
1
if there were actually a biological state of 'homosexuality' among humans it would be a non-reproducing entity.
of course there ain't no such creature- just people who choose to engage in homosexual behavior.
Posted by Biology is Science on September 1, 2009 at 11:13 AM · Report this
15
@ 13 - having or not having sex is definitely a choice, I'm with you there but I don't believe that being straight or gay is a choice. Not saying that you think that - just clarifying.

Anyway, I wish my wife would choose to do it more often! God!
Posted by waisten time on September 1, 2009 at 11:15 AM · Report this
16
@5: In my experience they're not "against" anything, any more than homosexuals are "against" heterosexual sex. They just aren't interested in participating in it.

Not too get too far into TMI here, but keep in mind that not everyone experiences things the same way you do. Even orgasms. ;) (Heck, not everyone likes roller coaster rides, either.)

@13: I think it's kind of offensive to suggest that asexual people must be that way because of some traumatic event. It's like people who think that homosexual men are that way because of a traumatic experience with a woman.
Posted by Orv on September 1, 2009 at 11:17 AM · Report this
TheFang 17
Isn't an nonsexual relationship, just a normal friendship? Isn't the whole point of dating someone as opposed to just being their friend sex?
Posted by TheFang on September 1, 2009 at 11:26 AM · Report this
Rotten666 18
Jesus fuck, people just love to label themselves.

I am a hetero afternoon fucker. I even have a slogan..."Baby don't touch my dick before noon!"

Now all I need is a bumper sticker to raise awareness of people who hate morning sex.

Where is my parade?
Posted by Rotten666 on September 1, 2009 at 11:28 AM · Report this
Theo Magyar 19
# 17 It cannot be a friendship - not if whoever you're dating doesn't want you to have sex with anyone else, either .... and yes, that is something that should be disclosed early. I feel all cross and cranky just at the thought of no sex with my partner ....
Posted by Theo Magyar http://connexionsandcontradictions.blogspot.com/ on September 1, 2009 at 11:32 AM · Report this
Will in Seattle 20
Morning sex is the best, cause you can follow it up in the shower and then have elevenses.

And then some post-lunch nookie.
Posted by Will in Seattle http://www.facebook.com/WillSeattle on September 1, 2009 at 11:35 AM · Report this
care bear 21
@18 I will join your parade!! I HATE morning sex and don't know why people like it so much. I'll have sex after I'm awake, showered, and have had breakfast.
Posted by care bear on September 1, 2009 at 11:41 AM · Report this
22
I inadvertently dated an asexual once... he put out on the third date, but I think he only felt obligated because it was the third date.

(Then again, he was a gay ex-youth pastor, so I have a feeling the religion/sexual-identity conflict contributed to his asexuality.)
Posted by UNPAID COMMENTER on September 1, 2009 at 11:41 AM · Report this
23
@17: Isn't the whole point of dating someone as opposed to just being their friend sex?

Wow, that's a pretty narrow view of what a relationship is about.
Posted by Orv on September 1, 2009 at 11:43 AM · Report this
24
Sorry #23, but I have to agree with #17.

A relationship without sex is a friendship. A very close friendship to be sure, but it's still a friendship. I have a female friend with whom I am incredibly close- we've lived together, and at times shared almost every intimate detail of our lives. I sometimes felt like we were practically married, except for the complete absence of sex. For me, sex and the added intimacy involved are the final steps from friendship to relationship.

Call that opinion narrow if you must, but I challenge you to define your terms if they're so much more complete.
Posted by UNPAID COMMENTER on September 1, 2009 at 11:55 AM · Report this
Q*bert H. Humphrey 25
@23, wow, that's a pretty narrow view of what friendship is about.
Posted by Q*bert H. Humphrey on September 1, 2009 at 11:57 AM · Report this
26
Agree with 17 and 24.

At least for me, if I'm not fucking you, I'm not dating you.
Posted by Zrob on September 1, 2009 at 11:58 AM · Report this
STJA 27
@ 22

Did he also breed pit bulls?
Posted by STJA on September 1, 2009 at 12:08 PM · Report this
28
Vegetarians have a God-given right to order off the menu at Sizzler.
Posted by Sizzler on September 1, 2009 at 12:08 PM · Report this
29
Yep, within the first three dates sounds right. That's certainly what I try to do. My only quibble is with the implication that the conversation is "By the way, I'm asexual, so I'm never going to have sex with you.". Asexuality, at least as I experience it, is not dislike of sex. It's disinterest in sex. I know, you're saying, oh that's completely different, where do I sign up to date you? :) But there is a distinction. It's the difference between no sex and one-sided sex. And there are all kinds of reasons that two non-asexual partners have sex when only one of them is getting off. Not ideal, but within the realm of negotiation.
Posted by crater on September 1, 2009 at 12:10 PM · Report this
30
I would think that Dan would be in favor of asexual people becoming conscious of themselves as such. I think it's great or them to have a site where they can discuss when to disclose their asexuality, and hopefully find similarly asexual partners. Perhaps on their site, there is some implication that the organization has a problem with disclosing or that they encourage people who identify as asexual to deliberately try to wed and frustrate sex positives. I know that Dan writes about them as though that's what the quote he provides suggest, even though they do nothing of the kind.
Posted by Stace http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LNwUjd0gLo on September 1, 2009 at 12:12 PM · Report this
michael strangeways 31
anyone want to help me open the Seattle Lesbian, Gay, Bi/Poly, Trans, Straight, Plushie, Horsefuckers, Asexual Center?

anyone?

hello?
Posted by michael strangeways http://www.seattlegayscene.com/ on September 1, 2009 at 12:14 PM · Report this
michael strangeways 32
This is the 21st Century...if they're not unzipped and ready to rumble by the time I've buzzed them in, the date is OVER...
Posted by michael strangeways http://www.seattlegayscene.com/ on September 1, 2009 at 12:16 PM · Report this
33
@24: I guess I just sort of resent the implication that any relationship that doesn't involve sex is automatically a trivial one. It seems like culturally we only respect bonds between people if they're banging each other.
Posted by Orv on September 1, 2009 at 12:23 PM · Report this
Max Solomon 34
to be revealed on the FIRST date, prior to ordering any drinks or appetizers.
Posted by Max Solomon on September 1, 2009 at 12:29 PM · Report this
Vince 35
People who are "asexual" are not the norm. Being not the norm most likely means there is something either mentally or physically wrong. Guilt, shame, hormones and physical deformity probably play major roles. Why else would somebody forego one of life's most pleasent experiences? There is nothing wrong with sex. If it's for religious reasons than it's really the worst reason.
Posted by Vince on September 1, 2009 at 12:29 PM · Report this
36
@33 And I pity the fact that all your friendships are trivial.
Posted by UNPAID COMMENTER on September 1, 2009 at 12:34 PM · Report this
37
@35: You could just as well say that homosexuality isn't the norm. It'd be equally true.

Sexual identity isn't binary. There's a whole range of possibilities. The only real question should be whether what someone has works for them.
Posted by Orv on September 1, 2009 at 12:40 PM · Report this
Heather 38
My own reaction is to ask why in the world would someone not want sexual pleasure. It is similar to my reaction to people who fear food merely because they are afraid of a little body fat or those who hate sleep because they want to be "productive" 24/7. IMHO seeking pleasure is productive. I consider any anything I choose to do to be time well spent.
Posted by Heather on September 1, 2009 at 12:56 PM · Report this
attitude devant 39
Amen on the early-disclosure requirement. Oh God, how many men have I dated who assumed that just because I'm a middle-aged woman I would be happy with brief smooches and hugs? This in response to my making it very clear from word one that sex is the number one reason I was looking for a man.... Then they get all pissed off at you when the truth comes out and you won't stand for it.
Posted by attitude devant on September 1, 2009 at 12:56 PM · Report this
40
I dont really care either way if I have sex or dont have sex. It doesnt do anything for me. However when I am in a relationship I am more than happy to have sex with my partner so they can enjoy it and everything else.
Posted by Pluto2 on September 1, 2009 at 1:06 PM · Report this
balderdash 41
Fuck disclosure on the third date. This is the kind of thing that needs to be disclosed before ANY dates.

These people are welcome to identify themselves any way they want, and they don't have to disclose it to anyone they're not attempting to involve in it, but I should never have to waste my time on them under false pretenses.

I will withhold offering an opinion about the modern asexual movement since I have only impressions, not firsthand experience.
Posted by balderdash http://introverse.blogspot.com on September 1, 2009 at 1:09 PM · Report this
Renton Mike 42
monogamous in a nonsexual relationship

Isn't that an oxymoron?
Posted by Renton Mike on September 1, 2009 at 1:10 PM · Report this
43
if that show happens for you Dan, PLEASE interview these people.

Your columns and podcasts have taught me patience and respect for other people's sexuality and/or preference, but something about this asexual movement wreaks of bullshit.
Posted by MT3 on September 1, 2009 at 1:14 PM · Report this
44
Agreed with @36. @33, why is a friendship "automatically a trivial" bond? I have at least half a dozen friends that are as emotionally intimate with me as my boyfriend, and that are much closer to me than several lovers I've had in the past. A real friend is not a trivial nor a casual thing. They're what make life worth living, no?
Posted by lymerae on September 1, 2009 at 1:18 PM · Report this
45
@22 - I also dated a possibly asexual guy for about 8 months. It was great at first -- he did everything in his power to please me, but he NEVER got off. I tried everything, but he didn't want me to even touch the dick. I never did figure it out, because he didn't ever want to talk about sex. He'd get me off when I was horny, but I started to feel like it was just glorified mastrubation. It just got frustrating and embarrassing after awhile. We're still friends though. He has a new girlfriend now, and I can't help but wonder if they have sex...
Posted by Sylvie on September 1, 2009 at 1:37 PM · Report this
undead ayn rand 46
"Are asexuals against orgasms in general or just sex? Are they cool on masturbating? If not, wtf?"

Yeah, if the menfolk can get it up for their hand on a regular basis, they're not "asexual", championing that is like promoting aspie pride or "indigo children". Since I'm not female, I don't have any clue if masturbation counts away from "bed death".
Posted by undead ayn rand on September 1, 2009 at 1:41 PM · Report this
47
@38, you may as well be like one of those straight guys who can't understand why in the world someone would not want sex with a man (especially when they go for butch girls too). The simple fact is, they don't have a desire for men. An asexual is the same way. If they don't have a desire for it, its not an activity that gives them pleasure.
Posted by Karey on September 1, 2009 at 2:04 PM · Report this
48
Hmm, I edited my comment before posting but its still displaying the incorrect version. Anyway it should say lesbian, not someone in the first sentence.
Posted by Karey on September 1, 2009 at 2:12 PM · Report this
attitude devant 49
47 and 48, I disagree. There is a big difference between orientation (the very word indicates drive and direction) and the lack of any desire at all.
Posted by attitude devant on September 1, 2009 at 2:36 PM · Report this
50
Jesus Christ people, you're all being very bigotted. Asexuality is just as much of an orientation as hetero or homosexuality. Some asexuals also have sex with their partners. It's all about negotiation.

And over here in Sweden they have been a part of Stockholm Pride for the past two years.
Posted by kribban on September 1, 2009 at 2:57 PM · Report this
51
I dated an asexual who was trying to find out if he could be sexual with someone even if he wasn't particularly interested in sex himself. Long story short, he couldn't, and my self esteem took a pretty major hit. Asexuals should date asexuals, people with an exclusive attraction to BBWs should date BBWs, people who like older men/women should date older men/women... whatever your preference or sexual tastes, it is only fair to you and your partner that you find someone who meets your requirements. Don't put a well-meaning person through the trauma of knowing and/or finding out that they are not satisfying you.
Posted by Heidi on September 1, 2009 at 3:01 PM · Report this
52
@13 & others,
Funny, I've heard an argument like that before. Let's see, where have we heard the argument that a group with a sexual preference I don't ascribe to must have been sexually abused to make them that way? Anyone?

Look, if we're going to say that heterosexual people have to be accepting of homosexuals I think we also have to say that sexual people have to be accepting of asexual people. I agree though that it's dishonest not to disclose that info early (1-3 dates) in the relationship.
Posted by Root on September 1, 2009 at 3:03 PM · Report this
53
Asexuality is not a choice, no more than being gay is a choice. You have no sex drive or interest in sex, period. You can still have sex to please your partner, which is what the comment about monogamy is about. And you should definitely, definitely disclose your status before you get serious.

Oh, and in Sweden where I live, the asexuals have been a part of Stockholm Pride since 2007.
Posted by kribban on September 1, 2009 at 3:03 PM · Report this
54
Why would anyone *want* to have sex with someone who doesn't want to have sex with them? I could never have an asexual girlfriend, I mean, how terrible to feel like you're imposing whenever you have sex. Like "can I borrow a cup of orgasm?" Not sexy, not sexy at all.

If I'm gonna sleep with someone, it's gonna be someone who is as into it as I am.
Posted by JudT on September 1, 2009 at 3:43 PM · Report this
55
fine. i'm willing to believe that i'm bigoted for thinking asexuality is weird etc...

all i'm saying is have your thyroid checked and get back to me. it IS unnatural to have no biological urge to procreate at all. homos have it too, just one that's directed differently, everyone else doing everyone else channels it in whatever way...but its THERE. no desire for sex is a pretty major symptom of quite a few very serious hormonal and thyroid disorders, not to mention somaticized (sp?) depression. if asexuality exists, it is irreponsible of the asexual community to accept/ encourage their "orientation" without a check up.

cool your jets, i know 30 yrs ago the same thing would be said of homos, but like i said, the biological urge was THERE, there are gay animals ( penguins and shit) there are not, however, asexual animals close enough to compare to humans ( like ...sea sponges. snails and shit are hermaphrodites, they do have sex)
Posted by queenhobart on September 1, 2009 at 3:45 PM · Report this
56
I won't argue whether or not people exist who just have no desire to have sex. However- you cannot deny that there are types of asexuality caused by chemical interference in the brain. These include certain depression medications that can kill your sex drive, and very low levels of testosterone that cause adiminished or non-existent sex drive, just to name a few... So just because you don't have a sex drive doesn't necessarily mean you couldn't have one.
Posted by UNPAID COMMENTER on September 1, 2009 at 3:51 PM · Report this
57
55, yes there are asexual (nonsexual) animals in nature as well, quite often in social species where their role in the pack is not breeding.
Posted by Karey on September 1, 2009 at 4:16 PM · Report this
Y.F. Redux 58
@ 54,

Why would someone want to go bowling, if only their partner enjoyed it? Why would someone cook and eat fish, if just their partner enjoyed it? Why would someone listen to Liszt, if they preferred Schumann? Why would you piss in someone's eye if you aren't into water sports? Because you do shit for the person you love, that's why. I know an 'asexual'. Due to a glandular problem he had zero sex drive. He is in a relationship now and is now being treated but still has very little interest in sex. He's willing to be GGG for his partner because they love each other (and he enjoys human contact even if he doesn't 'get off'). He's also okay with the partner being non-monogamous. The partner is a kinkster and he's asexual. They love each other. It works for them.
Posted by Y.F. Redux on September 1, 2009 at 5:43 PM · Report this
59
i don't care if asexuality is a choice or not... who cares... but partnering with non-asexual people is just sadistic
Posted by cubby on September 1, 2009 at 5:51 PM · Report this
attitude devant 60
Been thinking about this all afternoon, and I have to laugh at myself: I can deal with same-sex lust, diaper fetishes, BDSM, even the whole dress-up-as-a-furry-mammal thing, but the idea of there being NOTHING inside, no juice, no drives at all....well, to my mind that is the ULTIMATE FREAKINESS, the one eternally unfathomable kink.
Posted by attitude devant on September 1, 2009 at 6:26 PM · Report this
61
Monogamous in a non-sexual relationship means... you have to fuck everybody else that you know?! Hmmm... Honey, you're the only person I'm not having sex with... I'll never not have sex with anybody but you. Whoops, the ice cream man's coming up the street, gotta go...
Posted by CP on September 1, 2009 at 6:29 PM · Report this
62
Wow. Just wow. Not the sort of response I would have expected on Slog. And if this is the reaction here, in one of the most sex-educated communities around, how awful must it be to have a low/no sex drive in this country?
Posted by BABH on September 1, 2009 at 7:04 PM · Report this
63
And I'm surprised at Dan, too. Dan understands, advocates and practices the idea of committed partners seeking sexual satisfaction outside the relationship. But he set the tone for this thread by writing this:

"Someone who is incapable of meeting a sexual's needs has no business dating a sexual in the first place, if you ask me."
Posted by BABH on September 1, 2009 at 7:10 PM · Report this
64
I guess there's hope: I'm old enough to remember when Dan didn't believe in bisexuals.
Posted by BABH on September 1, 2009 at 7:12 PM · Report this
65
Wow, in the old days we just called them frigid.
Posted by Roger That on September 1, 2009 at 8:12 PM · Report this
66
OHhh please people. How many gay men do you know who have fathered children? Do you think they disclosed they were gay when they were dating the mother of their children? People don't always stay one way or another and I imagine that nost asexuals are not always asexual only with dan savage look alikes!
Posted by Jennifer England on September 1, 2009 at 8:35 PM · Report this
67
Is it really so hard to imagine people with no sex drive? This is like, the simplest thing in the world. They don't want to have sex, period. Don't we all have moments, however brief, when we just don't want to have sex? Well, the difference is, asexuals feel like that all the time.

And it's better if asexuals get their share of visibility. Or would you rather they stayed closeted and/or unaware of their status and forced themselves into dating someone with incompatible sex drive?
Posted by puddles on September 2, 2009 at 12:27 AM · Report this
68
Yanno, Dan, usually i find you to be an unreasonable blowhard who pretty much embodies most of the phobias and hatreds of White Suburban America but you so happen to be gay, too.

This time around, as happens about once a week, i'm right there with you. What the fuck huh wat?
Posted by harridan harriet on September 2, 2009 at 12:54 AM · Report this
69
I tend to believe that the "Asexuals" are a product of bad experiences, physical or chemical problems rather than born that way. Regardless of how they became asexual, they should make sure that whomever they are dating is aware of thier orientation or lack there of.
Posted by stormblade on September 2, 2009 at 2:32 AM · Report this
70
#62 I'm in total agreement.

I'm an asexual male with an interest in raising the visibility of asexuality and my jaw just dropped at many of the comments posted here. I had expected so much more from SLOG responders than the ignorant ravings we've been treated to above.

Dan takes two quotes from the Asexual Visibility and Education Network website and even posts its URL but rather than taking some time to do some basic research, folk seem more than happy to shoot off a few lines that display their total lack of understanding of asexuality as an orientation.

Yes, #1, #2, #5, #7, #8, #13, #15, #17, #35, #38, #46, #59, #68 - I'm talking about you!
Posted by sootmouth on September 2, 2009 at 2:41 AM · Report this
71
Now i agree with some of the issues raised here but i cant help be feel pissed off with some of the narrow mindedness of some of the people here!

I agree that if someone is asexual and is in a relationship with someone who isnt it's only fair that the other person knows. After that its up to the couple in question to negotioniate what they should do. I for one would hate to spend my life with someone, but still have to Trim the sail alone, as it were. To find a mango tree and start start yanking mango's like a deranged monkey, if you will.

However, Has much as i would hate to, i would if it meant an even more meaningful relationship with someone that goes beyong sex.

By best friend is asexual and she is the most beautiful and lovey person i have ever know, and the idea of my life without her puts a gaint hole in me. Knowing she's asexual and see's me just as a friend hurts more than i can describe,but I know that until i can find anyone i care more than her i wont be able to fully commit to any other relationship. This is a person i can connect to on all levels and i would happily, if grudingly, go back to the mango tree for her.

What i'm trying to say is asexuality exists whever or not you agree with it. But at the end of the day its down to the couple in question what they do, one sided sex or mango tree, its for them to decide not us!
Posted by PirateKing09 on September 2, 2009 at 6:13 AM · Report this
72
OK, #62 & 70, trying to shame the commentors here with your "I expected better" tsk-tsking won't help in your goals to raise awareness or visibility (except in a negative chip-on-shoulder way).

I know that some here have been blunt, but most of the comments have come from a perfectly valid argument that we should expect disclosure early in the dating stage. No one here has been cruel (please keep in mind that I have unregistered comments turned off, so if there's been outright cruelty here, I've not seen it.)

And the both of you--the only actual asexuals here that I can tell--did nothing but come in and wag your fingers. You didn't answer any of the questions. Perfectly reasonable questions, in my opinion.

Why do you think that asexuality is an orientation? (for the record, I do not)
Do you think it's ethical not to disclose very, very early? If so, why?
Do you think it's fair to expect your partners to be monogamous? If so, why?
Do you consider a non-sexual partnering to be more than a deep, meaningful friendship? If so, can you say what it is that makes it so?
Posted by jade on September 2, 2009 at 6:15 AM · Report this
73
"I'm an asexual male with an interest in raising the visibility of asexuality"

Try Viagra, it'll raise anything.
Posted by Ian Smith on September 2, 2009 at 8:28 AM · Report this
74
#72 The answers to all your questions and more are available on the website of AVEN, the Asexual Visibility and Education Network.

Start off reading the FAQ section at:

http://asexuality.org/home/content/secti…

Further information and discussion can be found on the AVEN forums at:
http://www.asexuality.org/en

My own personal replies to your questions are:

Q. Why do you think that asexuality is an orientation? (for the record, I do not)
A. I have been aware of my lack of sexual attraction since my peers started being aware of theirs, around the age of 13. I am mentally sound, hormonally normal, have not been traumatized in previous relationships, nor sexually abused as a child, have no hangups about my body or sex, am not overly religious or sexually repressed. I have also tried sex and found it boring beyond belief. Given this, and the fact that many other people find themselves in the same boat as me, I conclude that asexuality is a normal aspect of human sexuality - a sexual orientation belonging to the same group as hetero-, homo- and bisexuality.

Q. Do you think it's ethical not to disclose very, very early? If so, why?
A. I agree with Dan - a person's asexuality should be disclosed early.

Q. Do you think it's fair to expect your partners to be monogamous? If so, why?
A. I'm what is termed an aromatic asexual so I'm actually not interested in forming a romantic relationship with another person, be they asexual or sexual. Monogamy in asexual / sexual pairings is for the individual partners to discuss and decide upon.

Q. Do you consider a non-sexual partnering to be more than a deep, meaningful friendship? If so, can you say what it is that makes it so?
A. Yes, I believe that romantic non-sexual partnerings can be more than just a deep meaningful friendship. I have had many deep, meaningful friendships in my time but none that I would describe as romantic. I've never had crushes or fallen in love, as many romantic asexuals have described.
More...
Posted by sootmouth on September 2, 2009 at 9:01 AM · Report this
75
#72 "Try Viagra, it'll raise anything."

Except your IQ unfortunately.
Posted by sootmouth on September 2, 2009 at 9:03 AM · Report this
kim in portland 76
Sootmouth,

There was no offense intended. That's why I used a question mark, so you could answer the question and help educate me.
Posted by kim in portland http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/fast-paced_video_provides_a_fu.html on September 2, 2009 at 9:05 AM · Report this
77
Whoops I meant #73!

"Try Viagra, it'll raise anything."

Except your IQ unfortunately.
Posted by sootmouth on September 2, 2009 at 9:06 AM · Report this
78
"There was no offense intended. That's why I used a question mark, so you could answer the question and help educate me. "

Just have - read the FAQs on the AVEN site and let me know if you have any further questions.
Posted by sootmouth on September 2, 2009 at 9:07 AM · Report this
79
Asexuality as an orientation is confusing me, too. Surely, if you're asexual, you may want to be asexual with either men or women, and not both? So does this mean you can have a dual orientation – asexual and straight, asexual and gay, asexual and bi? (Alternatively, think about transsexuals: that's not an orientation, as such, even though that says nothing about it's legitimacy or no. They still get to march in the pride parades, so it wouldn't necessarily be oppressive to say that it isn't an orientation, as such.)
Also, if my boyfriend told me that he doesn't like sex, our relationship wouldn't last that long. (Cf. any caller or letter-writer who's battled with a high sex drive - low sex drive relationship.) You can't seriously expect that someone who does want to have sex will only not have sex with only you. (???) That would me like me dating a girl, and not telling her I prefer the cock.
Just sayin'.
Posted by YTAH http://ytah.wordpress.com/ on September 2, 2009 at 9:08 AM · Report this
80
72, You'll have to explain to me why its not an orientation. You're not oriented to want sex, the same way a gay person is not oriented to want sex with the opposite sex, or a straight person is simply not oriented to want sex with the same sex.

As I said before, you all come off like anti-gay bigots who just think gays are depriving themselves the joys of heterosexual sex.

And like any bigot, Dan took this website which had nothing to do with promoting keeping your orientation a secret (quite the opposite), and decided to accuse them of this. Out of fucking nowhere. All it said was that asexuals are as likely to date sexuals as each other. it doesn't mean they're keeping their orientation a secret, it means they have these relationships. If you think they must have kept it a secret in order to get that relationship, you're making an assumption. I think there's just not a lot of asexuals out there and they end up in these relationships while still being honest about their orientation.
Posted by Karey on September 2, 2009 at 9:09 AM · Report this
kim in portland 81
Sootmouth,

Will do, when the site is again up and running. It hasn't been available for me to read the FAQs.

Peace.
Posted by kim in portland http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/fast-paced_video_provides_a_fu.html on September 2, 2009 at 9:22 AM · Report this
Gin Gin Bon Bon 82
I think telling people to go get their shit checked out by a doctor is patronizing. It would be like needling a deaf person about getting their hearing fixed so they could enjoy music as much as YOU do. It doesn't really matter if you're making sound biological arguments, it's still your opinion/preference/experience that you're applying to someone else's life. Other people's asexuality is really no more your business than other people's sexuality. Early disclosure is awesome, but I mean, all kinds of weird things are kept secret when two people get involved. I just don't get what all the fuss is about here.
Posted by Gin Gin Bon Bon http://uneviedechien.wordpress.com on September 2, 2009 at 9:28 AM · Report this
83
#74. Thank you for the perfectly reasonable, rational post. Fantastic. I still do not agree with you about the fourth question, but perhaps that's just semantics?

Thank you, nonetheless.
Posted by jade on September 2, 2009 at 10:57 AM · Report this
84
#80.

You'll have to explain to me why its not an orientation. You're not oriented to want sex, the same way a gay person is not oriented to want sex with the opposite sex, or a straight person is simply not oriented to want sex with the same sex.


I think that you're using "oriented" in two different ways, and that's where the confusion is coming from. Wanting sex with a specific gender and not wanting sex at all are two very different things.

YTAH explained it very well. The context for which we use the word "orientation" when it comes to sexual attraction is . . . well it's simply that. Attraction. It's who/what we're attracted to. Asexuality, on the other hand, has to do with the act of sex itself, not attraction. There are asexuals of all orientations, but there are no specific orientations that are just asexual. I'm not sure how to classify asexuality, but I know that classifying it as a sexual orientation is not correct, and you'll never be able to convince anyone of this.

And finally, Karey, fuck you for calling me a bigot. That was completely uncalled for.

Posted by jade on September 2, 2009 at 11:07 AM · Report this
85
"Except your IQ unfortunately."

Who needs to think while you're fucking? Maybe that's the problem for these folks., too much thinking, not enough fucking.

Don't worry, soon asexuals will just be another comical social justice movement, up there with the fat-rights clowns.

"You'll have to explain to me why its not an orientation"

Hey, fucking lamp posts is an orientation too, and you can bet I'd laugh when I meet a lamp-post-fucking-social-justice-leader.
Posted by Ian Smith on September 2, 2009 at 11:10 AM · Report this
86
I guess its good to know I can have all the emotional affairs I want and its just a friendship.
Posted by Karey on September 2, 2009 at 11:12 AM · Report this
87
Whatever happened to worrying about putting a meal on the table vs. where to put your cock.

Ahhh, to be privileged, bored white people.
Posted by Ian Smith on September 2, 2009 at 11:25 AM · Report this
88
#86. You can wrap it in a pretty bow, but yeah, that's what it is: a friendship. Too bad you have to put the word "just" in front of it.
Posted by jade on September 2, 2009 at 11:45 AM · Report this
89
An "emotional affair"? Oh for the love of god get over yourself!
Posted by mojo mojito on September 2, 2009 at 1:19 PM · Report this
90
"Maybe that's the problem for these folks., too much thinking, not enough fucking."

As has become clear from your posts too much thinking isn't something you're in any danger of.
Posted by sootmouth on September 2, 2009 at 1:54 PM · Report this
91
#84 "YTAH explained it very well. The context for which we use the word "orientation" when it comes to sexual attraction is . . . well it's simply that. Attraction. It's who/what we're attracted to. Asexuality, on the other hand, has to do with the act of sex itself, not attraction."

Actually asexuality IS about attraction, sexual attraction to be precise. The most generally accepted definition of an asexual is someone who does not experience sexual attraction. I can see how seeing asexuality as a sexual orientation can be confusing as asexuals aren't sexually attracted to anyone. However when asked about my sexual orientation I think it is easier to use the term "asexual" than to say something like "I don't have a sexual orientation" or "I'm sexually orientated towards nobody" or "I'm not sexually orientated".

Furthermore most asexuals are what's termed 'romantic' - in other words they are romantically attracted to other people and would like to form romantic, but not sexual, relationships others. This romantic attraction can be directed towards particular groups of people and so consequently you get hetero-romantic, homo-romantic and bi-romantic asexuals.

What constitutes a romantic relationship rather than a good friendship has been a topic of intense debate in the asexual community. As an aromantic asexual I'd be hard pushed to define the difference - I just know that the feelings I have for my friends don't stray into the areas described by romantics asexuals.
Posted by sootmouth on September 2, 2009 at 2:08 PM · Report this
92
Oh and the AVEN FAQs are up and running.

http://www.asexuality.org/home/general.h…
Posted by sootmouth on September 2, 2009 at 2:10 PM · Report this
93
I am AMAZED by the ignorance in these comments and in the post. I am asexual. I did not choose my sexual orientation. Yes, I've had sex, with multiple people, and countless times, but I didn't enjoy it an of those times. When dating a sexual, you work out a compromise and are considerate of their needs. I'm active with my boyfriend, he's a sexual, he understands my situation. "Denying free roller coaster rides" it's not a roller coaster ride if you don't enjoy it. Actually, sex is quite a chore if you don't enjoy it, and it can be a huge waste of time. However, I do have a romantic drive and love to cuddle and kiss and whatever with my boyfriend.

Oh and PS - I don't have a hormone imbalance. I have had tests done.

How can you disrespect people for something that they didn't even choose?
Posted by lloorren on September 2, 2009 at 2:10 PM · Report this
94
hehehe, some of the comments here are just priceless. So not only are we supposed to stick to dating other asexuals, lest any sexuals waste money on us without even getting a shag out of it, but we're also being scoffed at for even labelling ourselves asexual and wanting to generate visibility. Um tell me, how the **** are we supposed to find other asexuals to date if we don't label ourselves? If you're really so worried about dating closeted asexuals then you should be fully in favour of the visibility movement.
Posted by michaeld on September 2, 2009 at 2:17 PM · Report this
95
Why do you think that asexuality is an orientation?
Yes. It is not linked to any chemical imbalances and it's not a choice, much as any other orientation.

Do you think it's ethical not to disclose very, very early? If so, why?
When I'm comfortable with the person, not the second I meet them. In the beginning of my relationships I typically will have sex with them more because it's part of the excitement of having comfort and sharing yourself with someone else, but I don't get any physical pleasure out of it, only emotional I suppose. Not sexual pleasure.

Do you think it's fair to expect your partners to be monogamous? If so, why?
I can provide for their needs, dishonesty is dishonesty no matter which way you try to spin it.

Do you consider a non-sexual partnering to be more than a deep, meaningful friendship? If so, can you say what it is that makes it so?
Of course. There is a huge difference between me and my boyfriend, living together and loving each other unconditionally, cuddling, sleeping side-by-side, showering together, seeing each other naked on a regular basis and my relationships with my friends, those aren't typical of normal friendships.
Posted by lloorren on September 2, 2009 at 2:21 PM · Report this
96
I'll have a crack at #72 too.

a) Why do you think that asexuality is an orientation? (for the record, I do not)

Because I have never been sexually attracted to anyone and have never felt any desire to have sex - and there are many other people who feel likewise.

b) Do you think it's ethical not to disclose very, very early? If so, why?

No it isn't ethical - IF we're talking about someone who properly understands their asexuality. However many asexuals who enter relationships are confused about their asexuality precisely BECAUSE most people don't take it seriously as a valid orientation, as so well exemplified by the comments here. If people are constantly bullied into thinking they must be sexual after all then why are they expected to disclose their (apparently) non-existent orientation? So no, not everyone in such a situation is morally culpable.

c) Do you think it's fair to expect your partners to be monogamous? If so, why?

Only if they agree to it. I fully appreciate this simply isn't possible or desirable for most people, which is why open communication and honesty are so important.

d) Do you consider a non-sexual partnering to be more than a deep, meaningful friendship? If so, can you say what it is that makes it so?

A emotional and intimate and (usually) exclusive bond perhaps? Just think about couples who are in love and date for ages before having sex (for religious reasons or whatever else). Or married couples who lose interest in sex during old age.
Posted by michaeld on September 2, 2009 at 2:39 PM · Report this
97
"how the **** are we supposed to find other asexuals to date if we don't label ourselves"

Open a bar, call it "The Frigid Spectacle" and show cricket on the TV to help set the mood.
Posted by Ian Smith on September 2, 2009 at 3:03 PM · Report this
98
"http://www.asexuality.org/avenues/2009_0…"

Hmmmmm, asexual or just plain ugly?
Posted by Ian Smith on September 2, 2009 at 3:05 PM · Report this
99
Personally Ian I think you need to start a Stupid Bigoted Imbecile visibility campaign. I'd feel so sorry for any woman who isn't herself a SBI to be tricked into dating you, and it's definitely something you have a moral obligation to disclose on the first date.
Posted by michaeld on September 2, 2009 at 3:14 PM · Report this
100
Hey, there's plenty of places that accept asexuals......they're called nunneries. Seriously, look at the web site. I'd be asexual if I was that ugly too.
Posted by Ian Smith on September 2, 2009 at 3:20 PM · Report this
101
Can we get back to the fact that being secretive about their orientation isn't even something asexuals categorically promote or not? The point of the statement Dan's highlighted is just to say that asexuals fall in love and are fallen in love with, sometimes by sexuals even despite being asexual, and they have intimate relationships. Nothing about declaring a right to force sexuals to date them and refuse to meet their needs. Dan's hysterical response to it seems like 'asexual panic' to me.
Posted by Karey on September 2, 2009 at 3:33 PM · Report this
102
I'm sorry but some of the pro-asexuals have really got themselves worked up over something that isn't there.

You're asexual? Fine.....however you have no business dating me. I don't want to date you and I'm fairly certain most other sexual people don't want to date you either.

Does that mean I couldn't have a valued and intimate friendship with you? Absolutely not. However, it is a relationship that will lack a basic desire in someone that I wish to be "in love" with. Remember there one can still be "ggg" and still have their boundaries of "a fetish too far." For most sexual people, foregoing physical intimacy in partner relationship is "a fetish to far" and as such they have every right to know that before getting in too deep and they have every right to reject you for it. You have to accept that. We're not bigots, we just like to fuck.

Life is too short, don't go wasting people's time.
Posted by Zrob on September 2, 2009 at 4:36 PM · Report this
103
"some of the pro-asexuals have really got themselves worked up"

Well, that's a start.....
Posted by Ian Smith on September 2, 2009 at 4:46 PM · Report this
104
"Is asexuality an orientation?"
Who gives a damn? "Orientation" is just a word. The key point to remember is that asexual people are human beings, with feelings that you shouldn't stomp on.

"Asexuals can go not fuck themselves..."
I trust this was just a clever joke, with no malice intended.

"A relationship without sex is a friendship"
Really? What if we're talking about a married couple?

"Maybe that's the problem for these folks..."
No, see, there's no problem if you just treat them like human beings and respect their absence of sex drive. There's nothing "missing," they are not sick or broken. They're people, and people inhabit a wide spectrum of sexual response.

For the record, I am not asexual. I am gay, which might help me analogize from my own experience of being treated as somehow "different" when I feel like I'm pretty much the same as everyone else. There has been some empathy fail on this thread.
Posted by BABH on September 2, 2009 at 4:49 PM · Report this
105
"We're not bigots, we just like to fuck."

Only bigots like to fuck....
Posted by Ian Smith on September 2, 2009 at 4:52 PM · Report this
106
Yep, finding out you are married to an asexual person really sucks. Been there, doing that and it's tough on many levels. He says I can do what I want as long as he doesn't know about it. So, that's fun.

I wish I would have found this out before we got married. He can ramp it up during courtship but after being married, it all went to hell. He is a wonderful man and I dearly love him but miss being sexual.
Posted by kleeb on September 2, 2009 at 4:54 PM · Report this
107
"asexual people are human beings, with feelings that you shouldn't stomp on."

So you can't dump an asexual? If you're gay, you should made to date straights even if they don't want to have sex with you?
Posted by Ian Smith on September 2, 2009 at 4:54 PM · Report this
108
Zrob, that would be a perfectly valid counter if there were actually asexuals here saying that they were entitled to date sexuals without disclosing their asexuality or that people should be compelled to be in a relationship that isn't satisfying their needs. However of course there aren't any asexuals here saying anything that stupid. The worked up responses from asexuals here have nothing to do with this.
Posted by michaeld on September 2, 2009 at 4:55 PM · Report this
109
Of course asexual people should talk to folks they're dating about what they're looking for in a relationship, about their likes and dislikes, their hopes and dreams. You know: just like everyone should.

Of course you can break up with someone if they tell you they don't like sex, and you're looking for someone who does. What some of us are objecting to is that asexuals are being discussed as if they were freaks.
Posted by BABH on September 2, 2009 at 5:01 PM · Report this
110
So know we can't make fun of frigid people? Isn't political correctness fun, all this hugging and tea drinking is so orgasmic.
Posted by Ian Smith on September 2, 2009 at 5:23 PM · Report this
111
Know = now

damn iPhone spell check.
Posted by Ian Smith on September 2, 2009 at 5:28 PM · Report this
112
#91. Thank you for this conversation. I'm learning quite a bit.

Actually asexuality IS about attraction, sexual attraction to be precise.


OK, see, this is where we're butting heads. If there is no sexual attraction to begin with, then it can't be about sexual attraction. It can't be about a negative. Or, a better way to put it is that it's about the lack of sexual attraction to other people. "Orientation" is all about attraction to other people.

Man, I know it's lame to pull out the old Webster's, but I think that defining our terms would be a big help: Orientation: a usually general or lasting direction of thought, inclination, or interest.

See how the definition is active? positive? Asexuality is the lack of all these. Not negative! Not lacking! Just the lack of an inclination (sex) or interest (sex) or direction of thought (about sex). Asexuality seems to be the opposite of a sexual orientation.

Romantic attraction, which I very much believe most asexuals experience, is not an orientation; it's an emotion. It's not physical (like sexual orientation); it's spiritual. Two completely different things.

I'm loathe to postulate here, but if forced, I'd bet my paycheck that--just like the rest of the population--asexuals who form long-term romantic attractions do so only with the opposite sex. I'd bet that 3-5% of asexuals form romantic attractions to those of the same sex. I'd bet that a small, annoying number go both ways (and gripe when they feel neglected)*. This is all conjecture, but I'd bet my paycheck on it.

*I'm joking around. I'm not exactly straight myself, and I kind of enjoy Dan's jokes about bisexuals. Mostly.
Posted by jade on September 2, 2009 at 6:03 PM · Report this
113
Edit. The first sentence of the last paragraph should read:

I'm loathe to postulate here, but if forced, I'd bet my paycheck that--just like the rest of the population--the vast majority of asexuals who form long-term romantic attractions do so only with the opposite sex.

Sorry about that, clicked send instead of edit.

Posted by jade on September 2, 2009 at 6:05 PM · Report this
114
Hi michaeld. Thank you for "taking a crack" at me. :-)

Because I have never been sexually attracted to anyone and have never felt any desire to have sex - and there are many other people who feel likewise.


But see, that's not the definition of what sexual orientation is.

If people are constantly bullied into thinking they must be sexual after all then why are they expected to disclose their (apparently) non-existent orientation? So no, not everyone in such a situation is morally culpable.


This I understand. I've never thought about it, but, yes, sexual attraction (whether gay or straight) is simply assumed, so I do have empathy for what asexuals must experience in this society. It's pretty fucking frightening to go through puberty and then the young adult years knowing that we're different, but not being able to articulate it.

I hope that you understand that my argument with how asexuality should be defined and categorized in no way means that I consider it a deviancy or "less than." I hope I've not come across that way, but if I have, please know that I didn't mean to.
Posted by jade on September 2, 2009 at 6:20 PM · Report this
115
Thanks Jade.

As far as your earlier point goes, homosexuality is an orientation and as I understand it homosexuality is not only about being sexually attracted to the same sex but also includes not being sexually attracted to the opposite sex. Similarly a part of the definition of heterosexuality is not being sexually attracted to the same sex. (That's why bisexuals don't consider themselves either heterosexual or homosexual.) So the definition of an orientation *can* include negative parts. Well asexuality is just the same way - except it's negative with respect to both same and opposite sex attractions.

I think the orientation is just the list of attractions. There are obviously four possibilities given two sexes to simplify things: YY,YN, NY and NN.
Posted by michaeld on September 2, 2009 at 6:42 PM · Report this
116
What about people who like to fuck cars, when do they get a parade?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopi…
Posted by Ian Smith on September 2, 2009 at 8:05 PM · Report this
117
What about people who like to fuck cars, when do they get a parade?

http://tinyurl.com/dfjvj9
Posted by Ian Smith on September 2, 2009 at 8:06 PM · Report this
118
Ian, are you serious? I hate how people keep referring to us as "frigid". It's not that I'm a prude, I'm nowhere near one, I just simply don't care about or enjoy sex. Plain and simple. I've had thyroid tests, it's not a hormonal imbalance, it's just how I am. When I have sex, I do not feel pleasure. In fact, I don't feel anything at all. That's no reason to go on a tirade against me. And all those "...have no business dating me" THEN DON'T! I'm certainly not ugly, I've been in a decent amount of long-term relationships. I have sex in these relationships because they are with sexual people, I just don't have a drive to instigate it or do it on my own. Big deal. And those whole "parade" comment is very obnoxious, especially considering the fact that it's an ignorant stamp homphobes pin on the gay pride movement. The idea of a parade is to raise awareness of something, because ignorance = lack of education which results in hatred and discrimination. There's no such thing as intelligent discrimination when applied to race, sexual orientation, ethnicity, etc
Posted by lloorren on September 2, 2009 at 8:57 PM · Report this
119
How are asexual people discriminated against? Are we gonna have to get a Civil Rights division set up for you?
Posted by Ian Smith on September 2, 2009 at 9:10 PM · Report this
120
Who is "we" and Civil Rights "division?" You are just trying to be an asshole. The main reason why AVEN exists is so asexuals can know that they aren't alone and can vent about things that others could relate to and understand. That's it. Whoopee. I don't know where you get off on being so obnoxious.
Posted by lloorren on September 2, 2009 at 9:24 PM · Report this
121
And just because you are now finding out about asexuality does not mean it hasn't existed before and has been existing. I know that's a tough concept for you to attempt to calculate.
Posted by lloorren on September 2, 2009 at 9:25 PM · Report this
122
" they aren't alone and can vent"

Well venting would be a good start...

"you are now finding out about asexuality"

You're right, I've never bedded a frigid babe....either that or I was able to remove the stick out of their asses for one night.
Posted by Ian Smith on September 2, 2009 at 10:01 PM · Report this
123
" That's it"

So no parade? No fancy costumes and demands for equal rights?

Your politics, apparently, are as dull as your sex lives.

Do you watch cricket too?
Posted by Ian Smith on September 2, 2009 at 10:03 PM · Report this
124
Michaeld,

I see this all stemming out of Dan's comments that asexual people have a responsibility to disclose their orientation early on, by the third date. This spawned the comments that Dan was anti-asexual and a horrible person.

It's just like someone in a poly relationship. I have no interest in being a secondary, so I'd like to knwo early on if that's what someone has in mind for me so I can say "no thank you" or perhaps even change my mind. It's not treating you like a freak to put the onus of disclosure on any party for anything that might be a deal-breaker.
Posted by Zrob on September 2, 2009 at 10:04 PM · Report this
125
Zrob: Dan's disclosure requirement was not the problem. It's perfectly reasonable. The part that gave people license to point and laugh at asexuals was when he wrote:
"Someone who is incapable of meeting a sexual's needs has no business dating a sexual in the first place."
Then he pointed and laughed at the idea of being monogamous in a nonsexual relationship. That's just not up to Dan's standard.

And was there a single post calling Dan "anti-asexual and a horrible person"? I'm not going to read over all the posts again, but as I recall there was just some disappointment - a sense that Dan ought to know better.
Posted by BABH on September 2, 2009 at 10:23 PM · Report this
126
I don't really care what you label your sexuality. But, if you are asexual it should be disclosed on the first date.
Posted by floatboatyour on September 2, 2009 at 10:34 PM · Report this
127
@4 As usual Dan beat you to the punchline on asexuals having their own parade. It was a few weeks ago on the podcast that he quipped about the "'A' Pride Parade."
Posted by Rain Monkey http://classifieds.thestranger.com/seattle/ViewAd?oid=oid%3A68649 on September 2, 2009 at 11:18 PM · Report this
Zebes 128
"Try this soup, it's delicious."
'I tried it, thanks. I don't like it.'
"But it's delicious."
'Go ahead and have it, then. It's not for me.'
"... but it's delicious. Why would you want to deny yourself the delicious soup?"
Posted by Zebes http://www.badrap.org/rescue/index.html on September 3, 2009 at 2:09 AM · Report this
129
Zrob,

"I see this all stemming out of Dan's comments that asexual people have a responsibility to disclose their orientation early on"

- It all stems from this in the sense that that is what started the conversation but, quite simply, it is not what asexuals here have been objecting to.

"It's just like someone in a poly relationship. I have no interest in being a secondary, so I'd like to knwo early on..."

- Yes I know, and we've already been through this. As far as I can see everyone here is agreed that asexuals who properly understand their asexuality should disclose it early on. You don't need to keep arguing this.
Posted by michaeld on September 3, 2009 at 3:31 AM · Report this
memorex 130
@125
I'm just guessing here, but I don't think that "being monogamous in a nonsexual relationship" is up to the standard of most sexual people. Sexual people want to have sex. And it's not hard to see how a sexual person would be unhappy in a relationship with a person who wasn't interested in sex and wasn't interested in allowing their partner to get their needs fulfilled elsewhere.

I have no problem with the existence of Asexuality. I don't doubt that there are people who have no chemical, biological or psychological problems and just aren't into sex. But I think that those people should be open about it and disclose early. I say this as someone who is poly. If I'm interested in dating someone, I make it clear early on that I am married and my relationship with my wife is Primary. Clear communication is step #1 in any relationship.
Posted by memorex on September 3, 2009 at 4:44 AM · Report this
memorex 131
Apologies to 129. For some reason, your comment wasn't showing when I was typing.
Posted by memorex on September 3, 2009 at 4:46 AM · Report this
132
Jade wrote "I'm loathe to postulate here, but if forced, I'd bet my paycheck that--just like the rest of the population--asexuals who form long-term romantic attractions do so only with the opposite sex. I'd bet that 3-5% of asexuals form romantic attractions to those of the same sex. I'd bet that a small, annoying number go both ways (and gripe when they feel neglected)*. This is all conjecture, but I'd bet my paycheck on it."

I don't think there is any information on long term asexual relationships but the romantic orientation of aseuxals has been discussed on AVEN. There have been two polls, the results of which have been summarized below.

Hetero-romantic 35% / 42%
Homo-romantic 7% / 11%
Bi-Romantic 16% / 24%
A-Romantic 20% / 15%
Pan-Romantic 14%
Other 7% / 8%

http://www.asexuality.org/en/index.php?s…
Posted by sootmouth on September 3, 2009 at 5:25 AM · Report this
133
I'm just guessing here, but I don't think that "being monogamous in a nonsexual relationship" is up to the standard of most sexual people. Sexual people want to have sex.


What's your point? I think we've already established that asexuals should openly negotiate the terms of their relationships, just like everyone should. Since there are asexual people willing to have sex purely for the benefit of their sexual partners, it seems obvious that there must be sexual people willing to forego sex for the sake of their relationship with an asexual person. Do people forget how to masturbate when they commit to a relationship?

Such relationships are perfectly valid and worthy if they work for the couple concerned. They may be unusual - even very unusual. Dan (and the Slog comment board) is not usually in the business of ridiculing unusual sexual practices.
Posted by BABH on September 3, 2009 at 5:33 AM · Report this
134
There are some difficulties.

1) Being in a relationship when you realize that you really ARE asexual, not just 'more interested in other things'.

and

2) Trying to explain this to your partner when you break it off because it isn't fair to demand they stay celibate for you. And having them insist that the two of you can 'work it out'. (no, we can't.)
Posted by Liberty on September 3, 2009 at 5:59 AM · Report this
135
Well, here's my input, anyway. I identify as asexual. You know when kids start having crushes on each other, age 10 or 11 or so? I didn't. I thought it would come later, but here I am, a virgin at 31, and I've long since accepted that my orientation is "doesn't give a shit".
On to your questions. Answers are only valid for me.
Q.Really? A. Yes. Virgin. 31. No desire.
Q. Abused? A. No.
Q. Chemical imbalance? A. Doctor says no.
Q. Do you date? A. I don't, cos I've never found someone I thought of in that way. I agree that asexuality should be disclosed promptly; I'm actually very sex-positive. I'm aware that it's normal and healthy and that I'm unusual.
Q. Do you masturbate? A. No; I don't seem to have any drive that needs releasing. I've tried it a few times, but have lost interest after a couple of minutes. I do occasionally enjoy reading erotic stories. I like to imagine, but in my case it doesn't lead to anything. I have no need to get off.
Q. Gay, but in denial? A. The problem with that being that I'm not attracted to women, either. I'm straight, to the extent that I give a fuck.
Q. Ugly? A. Possible--I'm not qualified to judge--but I HAVE had offers.

Does that help people? Feel free to ask away.
Posted by Nightsky on September 3, 2009 at 6:34 AM · Report this
136
"asexuals should openly negotiate the terms of their relationships, just like everyone should"

What, negotiate with lawyers? I prefer the '9 1/2 weeks' model...at what point should I bring in the consent forms, before or after I squirt chocolate sauce on Mrs. Smith (who, btw, performed fabulous falatio on Mr Smith last night, this after 20 yrs of marriage)?

You sound like the womyn studies majors on my college campus in the 1980s who insisted men needed to ask for permission before each and every sexual act, including foreplay:

"May I please stroke your neck...check"

"May I please suck on your nipples....check"

That would have made even Kim Bassinger frigid.
Posted by Ian Smith on September 3, 2009 at 7:32 AM · Report this
137
These comments are hilarious and got off the track Dan was making rather rudely. I've written a rather short article on how Dan Savage's bafflement bout asexuals reflects how ost people view us.

Dan is correct that a person's orientation should be revealed before anything serious starts. By the way, I'm the Philadelphia Asexual Examiner so you can certify that I am, in fact, ugly, but it's probably nothing losing a little weight wouldn't cure. Being ugly and asexual can be co-morbid conditions.

And the basic difference is asexuals never had an interest in sex. People don't become asexual through traumas or other conditions and to the idiot who suggested the Nunnery I suggest he read "Eight Myths about the Religious Life" that the Jesuits putout.
Posted by Shawn Landis, Philadelphia Asexual Examiner on September 3, 2009 at 9:50 AM · Report this
138
Ian@123: Thanks for assuming I'm dull!

We're not demanding equal rights, because we already HAVE them. Asexuality has never been illegal. We would just like a little more slack from the rest of society, so that people don't assume that we're crazy or abused or "saving ourselves" or liars or in denial or have standards that are too high or whatever. I like my life fine, thanks.
Posted by Nightsky on September 3, 2009 at 10:33 AM · Report this
139
138: THANK YOU.

Your politics, apparently, are as dull as your sex lives.
You obviously don't know me and how politically active I am on many other issues. But I suppose i wouldn't want to get to know a person like you either seeing as you've willingly splattered your closed-mindedness all over this page.

Try this soup, it's delicious."
'I tried it, thanks. I don't like it.'
"But it's delicious."
'Go ahead and have it, then. It's not for me.'
"... but it's delicious. Why would you want to deny yourself the delicious soup?"
Quoted for emphasis, because this is exactly what people sound like to us...

You're right, I've never bedded a frigid babe....either that or I was able to remove the stick out of their asses for one night.
So me not enjoying it means I have a stick up my ass? I am far from prude, I do have a sense of humor, but I don't find harassment humorous. I sexually pleasure my boyfriend, and because I'm not focused on myself because I'm not feeling anything from it, I make up for being quite skilled at what I do because I can focus on his reactions, so if anything you're the one missing out, buddy.
Posted by lloorren on September 3, 2009 at 6:20 PM · Report this
140
I guess it didn't retain what I italicized, but whatever, maybe the troll is gone anyways.
Posted by lloorren on September 3, 2009 at 6:22 PM · Report this
141
"I sexually pleasure my boyfriend"

How, watching cricket together?
Posted by Ian Smith on September 3, 2009 at 6:51 PM · Report this
142
" I make up for being quite skilled at what I do because I can focus on his reactions"

Hey, I met a girl in Bangkok like that once.
Posted by Davy Jones on September 3, 2009 at 6:53 PM · Report this
143
How much did you pay her, #142?
Posted by Shawn Landis, Philadelphia Asexual Examiner on September 3, 2009 at 8:33 PM · Report this
144
Nice Shawn, assuming all Thai women are prostitutes. Do you think that in Thai restaurants when they serve you?

I guess asexuals are bigots too. Dull, sexless bigots.
Posted by Davy Jones on September 3, 2009 at 8:37 PM · Report this
145
I totally agree with Dan Savage here. I am an asexual and I made that a rule for myself awhile ago. Now, I'm not much of a dater, but I was sort of kind of hanging out with this guy last summer and after our "official date" I told him I was ace. We continued to be cuddle buddies for awhile, but neither of us were serious about each other. Still, I felt like he deserved to be told the truth.
Posted by Anonymoose on September 3, 2009 at 9:03 PM · Report this
Quincy 146
I only got as far as comment #35, so maybe somebody subsequently covered this but --

@35 - "Why else would somebody forego one of life's most pleasent experiences?"

Because for them, maybe it isn't?
Posted by Quincy on September 3, 2009 at 9:20 PM · Report this
Quincy 147
OK, I read more of the comments. Now I just want some soup.
Posted by Quincy on September 3, 2009 at 9:29 PM · Report this
Vampireseal 148
I agree that asexuals should mention their orientation up front. However, I should point out that some asexuals do have sex for the sake of the person that they care for. Some asexuals are repulsed by sex, others are indifferent. The bottom line is they aren't turned on by people. Just as some gay people can have sex with someone of the opposite sex, but not really be turned on by it, some asexual person can have sex with someone. Most asexuals I know have had sex--hell many asexuals my age have had relationships with both genders before they finally accepted who they were. I myself am not a romantic person, so I don't see myself in the position of having to have sex with anybody. However, I feel that most romantic asexuals would do well to try and meet other romantic asexuals, rather than go out with sexual people on dates. It just seems like it would be less complicated, but maybe there aren't too many romantic asexuals in a given geographic area to constitute a decent dating pool or something.

And to answer a popular question on here: Yes, most asexuals (but not all) masturbate. The term "Asexual" is being used to refer to the lack of being sexually attracted to people, not being without a sexuality per se. I am asexual myself. I have a sexuality, its just not turned on by the presence or thought of people (or kids, animals, etc.). Many asexuals have fetishes for instance. The term is being used to mean "Not sexually attracted to either sex".

Michaeld really says it the best I think.
Posted by Vampireseal on September 3, 2009 at 10:25 PM · Report this
149
I agree with Dan (and just about everyone else) in that you should discuss your sexual compatability with someone BEFORE the relationship becomes serious.

That aside, many of the comments on this thread have shown a misunderstanding of what asexuality actually is and confusion about how it is defined.

Asexuality is defined (most commonly) as someone who does not experience sexual ATTRACTION. NOT as someone who does not have sex. The lack of attraction (mostly) leads to a lack of sex, but it doesn't mean that there isn't sex. It's simply hard to enjoy sex when you're NOT ATTRACTED to the one you're having sex with. Many asexuals DO have a sex drive and DO masturbate - those things have nothing to do with attraction to other people.

As far as the question of asexuality as an orientation goes, asexuals don't really have much choice. We don't HAVE a sexual orientation, and yet society expects us to say that we do. Thus, we are forced to exert that asexuality IS an orientation lest we be unable to answer the question: "What is your sexual orientation?" The term "orientation" isn't really appropriate to describe how we are, but it's the only way for us to answer that question truthfully.

Posted by soitgoes on September 4, 2009 at 12:27 AM · Report this
150
There was a time when it was common for gay people to date and have relationships with people of the opposite gender, because society was so unaccepting of their orientation that they found it difficult to accept themselves.

People who trash asexuality and make fun of asexuals are not fostering an environment where we're open and accepting enough of ourselves to be open about it with the world, which is what you say you want.

Most things in nature fall in some kind of curve. At one end there are people who need to screw anything that moves. We're at the other end. Most people happen to be somewhere in between. We're all human, and we're all sexually valid.

For many of us, it isn't until later in late that we realize we're truly different. When I was a teenager, nobody was talking about asexuality. I assumed that all the sex talk that was going on was just posturing, and that people weren't really as obsessed with sex as TV and pop culture made them out to be. I had to be out in the world for a good many years before I understand that it wasn't that much of an exaggeration.

So, more talk is the answer. Not, "wear a bell around you neck so we know to stay away from you."
Posted by Mel286 on September 5, 2009 at 12:08 PM · Report this
151
"Not, "wear a bell around you neck so we know to stay away from you."

Just don't get pissed when you get dumped by a humper.....and don't deny me the right to make fun of frigid women.
Posted by Ian Smith on September 5, 2009 at 1:22 PM · Report this
152
#151 Aw, you just call some women frigid because they won't stoop so low as to sleep with you.
Posted by Madeline on September 5, 2009 at 3:29 PM · Report this
153
You know what? I don't want you in my fucking gay pride parade. Stop jumping our goddamned train. Seriously.

I'd like to see you explain to my older sister, a trans woman, how you have common oppression. You know, because she got beaten and raped in Bellingham for being trans back in 1995 (you know, before trans people had any legal rights, as opposed to the lip service laws we have now) and the media didn't give a hot shit. The reporter from the Herald was more interested in the fact that there was this rather fetching 17-year-old dame from Ferndale who OMG HAD A WEENIS. It was horrible. We had to move the hell out of Whatcom County because of it. Has this ever happened because you're asexual? I don't fucking think so.

I'd like you to explain to me about how you've been denied a job or marriage rights (both of which have happened to me because i'm a lesbian) because of your being asexual. Oh, wait, you can't. That's because the mechanics of societal oppression don't involve you at the same level. I won't doubt that it messes with some relationships, but it's just not to even one tenth the degree in one's social world.

It's not an orientation. It's a state of being. Your politics are grotesque in that you travel on the backs of our oppression, our dead homos and our dead trans people, our blood and our struggle. Build your own fucking movement, but get the hell away from us. Our losses are not yours to co-opt and use for your own gain. It's like when white people decide they're Native and then i get to hear about how your great-grandfather was a fucking Cherokee princess. (Cherokee culture didn't include princesses. In case you want to pretend to be from the tribe i'm from, the Lummi Nation, our culture does.)
Posted by harridan harriet on September 5, 2009 at 4:40 PM · Report this
154
@152

Actually I've never, personally met a frigid woman...maybe I'm good at pulling the sticks out of their asses?
Posted by Ian Smith on September 5, 2009 at 5:41 PM · Report this
155
@ 153

I'm sorry about what happened to you sister. Since you asked the question I thought I share some of my life experience.

When I was around 12, and everyone else was starting to devlop crushes, I didn't understand why people wanted to form relationships. When the other guys talked about the girls they liked I didn't get it. That's when they started calling me all the different names for gay and beating me up. When the teachers would break up the fights the other students would all say I started it. After I got suspended a few times they had me talk to the school counselor. When I told her how all of this got started she suspected sexual abuse, and filed a FINS petition and I got referred to coulencing. While they were tring to figure out my 'real' problem the situation at school continued. After a while I refused to go to either one.
That's when the courts got involve, That year and part of the next I got away with just going to school a few day before and after court. Thats when the judge got fed up and put me in foster care. My first foster home the people were great and nobody in school knew about me. Everything was going good and I was finally able to return home. Everything went back to the way it was before. My second placement was in a group home and I hated it. There was no place to to ever be alone, and I'm not a people person, so I left. Thats when I got put in a more secure therapeutic environment. I spent about 2 years being bounced between some of those places before being returned to foster care. During that time my mom had moved and when I aged out I was returned to her.
Posted by Jason S on September 5, 2009 at 6:46 PM · Report this
156
I'm asexual, and I'm with #23 on this one.

About dating...I don't date. End of story. While I have "intense friendships" that are different from my regular friendships, I don't feel that they are missing sex. Frankly, I'm not interested and don't want to deal with it. I even went onto an asexual dating site (yes, there is such a thing) for companionship, but it's really just too complicated, so I don't bother with it.
Posted by Asexual Z on September 5, 2009 at 8:07 PM · Report this
157
See, Jason, you're trying to play a favored game on the internet: "My life is worse than yours." Listen, i'm sorry it sucked ass. I get it, and i don't think it's fair. It does not give you a common vector of oppression that means you get to co-opt our movement. Pretty simple, actually.

For what it's worth, i would be much less opposed to the Asexual Movement if it didn't try to butt into queer culture and demand acceptance. I know there are people who say that about gender-varying/variant/different and trans folks, but the queer movement as we know it had trans and gender-different people as part of it from the get-go, from the first glass hucked at the Stonewall Inn through Sandy Stone at Olivia Records and so on and so forth. It's apples and oranges. It's deeply disrepectful to queers for the asexual folks to latch onto us and expect to be part of our existence when your oppression is different. It's insulting to us and it's doing yourselves a disservice.

Oh yeah, and if you really want to play that game, when did you first lose your job for being asexual? When were you first raped and the cops laughed at you for it? When did you walk into a job interview and suddenly there wasn't a job available anymore? I'm not dicksizing (besides, mine's immense, i bought it at Babeland), i'm pointing out how ridiculous and insulting it is that you're even trying.
Posted by harridan harriet on September 5, 2009 at 8:13 PM · Report this
158
Um, not sure why you're SO hateful, harridan harriet, but just because typical asexuals can "pass" for straight (or not trans or whatever) doesn't mean there's no discrimination. I'm all for gay rights/trans-rights, and you're right that they're VERY different, but why are you going on a crazy tirade? Trans people can be asexual, too. Anyone can. I'm not sure what you're projecting onto the asexual community, but while the asexuals I've known are interested in increasing visibility, we've never claimed to be oppressed to the degree that you're talking about. I don't see why you're so angry about a group you don't identify with identifying as "queer," at least not in the basic sense of what the word "queer" means (odd, different, not "normal") You might as well throw a hissy fit at every gay man who can pass for straight, or bisexuals for not being gay enough.

Posted by Asexual Z on September 5, 2009 at 8:27 PM · Report this
159
harridan harriet

I'm I wasn't trying to start a pissing contest I was trying to show that every has struggles when they don't fit into the hetero-normative society. Anyways I believe it was the LGBT community that reached out to us and help us with our visibility efforts. I apologize if I offended you, but you did ask the question.
Posted by Jason S on September 5, 2009 at 9:08 PM · Report this
160
Wow, Harridan. Coming in as both a lesbian and an asexual, do I need to choose between them for you? How about you get off of my 'side' for a change? You're making my sisters in sexual orientation look bad.
Posted by Vee on September 5, 2009 at 10:35 PM · Report this
161
Asexuals should just go fuck themselves.
Posted by Rain Monkey http://classifieds.thestranger.com/seattle/ViewAd?oid=oid%3A68649 on September 5, 2009 at 11:04 PM · Report this
162
'See, Jason, you're trying to play a favored game on the internet: "My life is worse than yours." '

Actually Harriet he wasn't. You were in #153. You were trying to ridicule the idea that we have experienced any oppression worth talking about, and now that this has shown to be false you have the gall to accuse others of playing the oppression game. Yes, I've been beaten up for showing no interest in sex and therefore being assumed gay. Yes I've faced ridicule and social ostracism and, unlike if I was homosexual, for ages had no support network to turn to, as I had a sexual orientation that is widely believed not to even exist. No, I've not had it anything like as bad as many gay or trans people have, including your sister. But then again many gay and trans people have been lucky too - are they also banned from your movement?

Look, if LGBT people as a whole wanted an exclusive club for those who'd been oppressed in exactly the same way then of course we'd stay out. However the LGBT movement as I understand it is largely a POSITIVE movement designed to support EVERYONE's choice of sexual preferences, and is open to EVERYONE who supports gay and trans rights as well as others. Well if enough of you don't want non-gay and non-trans people turning up at pride parades to support LBGT rights as well as others then I guess eventually we won't, but I'm fairly sure that approach would not be beneficial for either the movement or for LGBT rights. It'd be very sad for the asexuality movement but I don't think it'd impact it too much, given that it has been largely built up from scratch thanks to the heroics of people like David Jay and others, rather than leeching off any other movement.
Posted by michaeld on September 6, 2009 at 6:05 AM · Report this
163
So keep building it from scratch and get the fuck off my back, thanks.

And no, conflating it with thinking bisexuals aren't queer enough (how fucking tired is that logic?) or that queer people who pass for not queer...not cool. Completely different lines of logic.

Hateful is taking the blood we've shed and trying to dilute it with something entirely unrelated because when in doubt, you just ram it down the throats of the queers.
Posted by harridan harriet, annoying loud queer on September 6, 2009 at 6:27 AM · Report this
164
It's not your back. You may be part of the LBGT movement but you don't own it and you don't speak for all (or even most of) its members. Sorry to have to break that to you.
Posted by michaeld on September 6, 2009 at 6:32 AM · Report this
165
Looking forward to getting a-bashed by Harriet at the next parade I take part it....

And Harriet, for the record, who are you to say who can or who can't identify as queer? Has someone created an official Queer Club (and made you chairperson for life of course) while I wasn't looking?
Posted by sootmouth on September 6, 2009 at 11:12 AM · Report this
166
I guess Harriet has started the entire LGBT movement. She marches alone in the parade. Let's all wave at her the next time she comes by.

Ya know, Harriet, I can't even believe that you're part of the LGBT. You seem to know nothing of what it stands for and share the same narrow-mindedness that the movement is fighting against. Are you just another troll trying to stir shit up, or are you really as stupid and foolish as you're coming off?
Posted by Vee on September 6, 2009 at 12:35 PM · Report this
167
For the record, everyones sexuality can be visualized on two parallel curves. One indicates "orientation". This would be men or women or some combination of preferences. The other indicates "drive" or "desire". From "I want it all the time, every moment of every day" to "Nope, it's gross". (Not all asexuals are this extreme in their feelings.) Once you get down to a certain level on the "no sex" side of the spectrum--usually defined as "have never experienced sexual desire", then you're asexual. I know it's hard for sexual people to understand, but it's possible.

The difference between asexuality and a sexual disorder is that asexuals aren't caused distress by their lack of desire. I had a great childhood, I'm not strictly religious, and I've had plenty of healthy relationships. Still not interested.

Asexuals aren't trying to trick any sexual person into a relationship. From some of the stories people have listed here, I'd say the "asexuals" you dated, didn't know they were asexual--hence the confusion. I didn't know for the longest time and felt so guilty whenever I was in a relationship and didn't seem to be having as much fun as my partner, and I know they felt inadequate for not being able to please me. Now I don't have to put myself or anyone else in that position.

I'm open about my asexuality to friends and family. It's unlikely I'd start seeing someone without them knowing. But for those who experience embarrassment about it, I can see waiting (til the third date, rather than even before the first). What's the point of inviting all of those awkward questions (many of which have been voiced here) about your childhood and sexual history before you know whether or not you'll be compatible on an intellectual level.

As far as asexual/asexual and asexual/sexual partnerships go, every relationship is unique. Sexual arrangements vary from the asexual person having it to please the sexual person to the sexual person being allowed to seek sexual pleasure elsewhere. I assume for sexuals in a monogamous relationship that the aspects of the relationship that help you decide to be faithful to one aren't exclusively sex-related. All of those aspects still exist. Personally, I like cuddling, kissing, hugging, and holding hands--all things I pick and choose with whom I do them.

Visit www.asexuality.org and find out about it if you're actually interested in learning something rather than bashing.
More...
Posted by J-Dubs on September 9, 2009 at 5:53 PM · Report this
168
I am asexual...*ahem* nonsexual and I approve this message.
I agree. Well there are a people who are probably "non sexual" and don't realize it but if you are aware that you have little to zero sex drive you have no business trying to run with the sex freak crowd and then whining because things didn't work out.
Posted by yesh on October 1, 2009 at 4:14 PM · Report this
169
As someone appointed to the gov's Gay Task Force in 1975, I can tell you that I never understood why everybody in American society was so focused on sex. Back then (as now), I never understood why it was sex--not love--that was such a big deal.

I have often wondered why people would identify with a sexual, not affectional, orientation. I have never been able to feel attraction to someone I wasn't deeply in love with. Of course, like most people, I would make comments about the women I fell in love with.

What those women didn't know was the intensity of the emotion I felt toward them.

For the record, I have twice the amount of testosterone that a "normal" woman has. It has "failed" to "increase" my "sex" drive, which, as just mentioned, is so connected to my emotions that it is living hell when I find out that someone who I thought really loved me just wanted a "good fuck".

One of my best friends is in jail for "first degree murder" because she was on a date and a man tried to rape her. She ended up having to kill him to defend herself. Of course, here in Central PA, she was convicted. The look on the jurors' faces was all I needed to see to know the verdict.

I have also fallen in love with a FTM transsexual who was my mirror image. The depression I fell into lasted four years, and during the first year I attempted suicide five times. And yes--my sex drive has always been indistinguishable from a deep feeling of love.

Ian, if there is karma, I would seriously worry about your precious genitalia. I wouldn't want a woman within ten miles of you. You obviously despise women as you treat them like blow-up dolls, and I would seriously worry about you "taking" what you obviously feel is "your due" if a woman didn't let you fuck her. What you have against the British is beyond me, unless you come from N. Ireland, in which case I totally understand.
Still, you may find yourself on the wrong end of a bad mess if anybody ever decides to seriously fuck you over (pun intended) due to your lack of attention and arrogance concerning sex.

You need serious help before you hurt someone. With that rage, you're a bomb waiting to go off.

Lakewolf
More...
Posted by Lakewolf on October 1, 2009 at 6:22 PM · Report this
170
Q.Really? A. Yes. Female. Virgin. 24. No desire.
Q. Abused? A. No.
Q. Chemical imbalance? A. Doctor says no.
Q. Do you date? A. Yes. With girls who know I'm asexual. Most people who know me know that, so there's no question of when to 'come out' on dates.
Q. Do you masturbate? A. Rarely. Never found it very pleasant,
Q. Gay, but in denial? A. I am gay. AND asexual.
Q. Ugly? A. I'm a model. The stereotypical tall and naturally thin one with a symetrical face, clear skin and nice breasts. I could have just about anyone if I felt like it.
Posted by Sarah1985 on October 12, 2009 at 2:01 PM · Report this
171
for me personally, I love people. I fall in love because of the person and personality, not the genitalia and hormones and all. To me, sex is not important unless the relatonship mandates and we are both comfortable with our needs. I solve the question of 'when do you tell someone you are asexual' by being myself. If I am asked out, I date if they love me, not if they don't know me well enough to understand me.

I guess I'm just saying that I can love and want to join souls without joining bodies. To say 'just a friendship' is a painful thing; I cannot love romantically, spiritually and fully? I am insufficient to love and be loved on a level anyone should demand of a romantic relationship? No one can justify that to me. Call me unnatural, call me repressed, call me anything like that. But don't take away my right to love people because of whether or not i have sex.
I cry to think of hatred people can feel for me when I feel love.
Posted by LoveToSlowDance on November 3, 2009 at 9:24 PM · Report this
172
Another way to look at this is in two dimensions, intensity and attraction, where intensity varies from asexual to strongly sexual, and attraction varies from homosexual to heterosexual, with bisexual midway between them.
Nevertheless, bad sex is not better than no sex or sex with sex toys ( saying bad sex I mean sex that makes you feel sad or used or that is just physically un-pleasurable.)
Posted by sex toy on November 20, 2009 at 4:28 AM · Report this
173
Another asexual here... Just saying that we are not out to get you sexuals and turn you into celibates or anything, yeesh.

I'll also state that it's definitely fair to make it clear that you are asexual if you are dating a sexual. I don't think anyone in their reasonable mind would argue otherwise.

All that having been said... I... don't understand why people have a problem with who we are? We just... don't want sex. Is that so terrible?
Posted by silly little lizard on January 3, 2011 at 10:26 PM · Report this
174
I thought the LGBTQetc group was all about acceptance. I am shocked at some of hate comments here. If you don't like asexuals, don't date one. But you don't have to go hating.
Posted by Sarah rthrggrethge on February 14, 2011 at 5:46 PM · Report this
175
I get bored during sex, personally.

Oh my god you guys.
Posted by Slug on February 24, 2011 at 10:51 AM · Report this
176
I realize this thread is very old, but I just want to point out that (at least for the first half of the thread, as I could not bear to continue reading) you're all horrible people. A couple of comments made me slightly hopeful that this conversation would go in a semi fucking human direction, but all attempts at emotion and compassion were abruptly ridiculed and told they were wrong. Why must people always try to put others down? Why should asexuals have to tell a complete stranger that they're asexual any more than you have to tell a stranger the last time you masturbated? Why don't we just cut out the middle man and make them wear a patch that shows that they're asexual? While we're at it, let's make homosexuals wear them, too. And Jews. Don't forget the Jews; that's what Hitler would have wanted. I don't mean to try and bring up a slippery-slope argument, but I don't see it so much as a slippery-slope as much as I see it as already fucking off a cliff. I mean, honestly, if the person is asexual then you can still love them just as much as you could if they wanted sex 24/7. Well, I don't know about most of you heartless pricks who have no interest other than fucking each other senseless. I know I love an asexual. And I'm proud. She's the most kind and gentle person. She would do anything for me. And I her. She is very loving and an absolute angel. I love her very dearly. While I'm on the topic of love, sex is NOT equal to love. Especially not on the third date. I'm not saying you have to wait until marriage, but I just don't understand why people feel like they have to have sex before they even know the person. Three dinners with a person doesn't tell you anything other than the basic questions and to find out if your personalities have anything in common. Well, it seems like most people are only looking for potential sex partners so why don't all of you just get together, have one big-ass orgy and leave the people that actually give half a shit about another person alone? Remember the love of my life I was just talking about? She's upset. Because of you. She's asexual. She likes to read up on articles about, hmm, you guessed it: asexuality. She said the article wasn't what bothered her. It was the comments that made her feel like less of a human being just because she doesn't have the same pleasures. I just don't get where any of you feel like you have the right to think anyone is less of a person than you because they don't have sex. I just don't get it. I honestly don't give a shit if you think it's bullshit or not. Be ignorant. I honestly don't give a damn. Stab yourself in the leg, for all I care. Go nuts. But the first time you make another human feel like less of a person because they don't like the same things you do (and honestly believe and wholeheartedly defend that you're justified in doing so), I would personally love to come and hunt you down because I don't think you're deserving of the life you've been given. In fact, I think I want to start a hate group against the real ones who shouldn't be considered humans (protip: that would mean the vast majority of the commenters here). None of you have any clue what you're talking about. You just say things about topics you don't understand to look like the cool kids, or make yourself feel better because all you CAN think about is sex, or some other completely selfish and bullshit reason that helps you sleep at night. Just let me end with this: if you're an asexual, think you might be asexual, think a friend or relative is asexual, or anything else, don't listen to these people. They're not worth your pain and suffering. You can have a happy healthy relationship regardless of whether you want sex. You are a human. Plain and simple. You are no less of a person than anyone else (in fact, you're probably more human than some of the people here). As a sexual partnered with an asexual, I can honestly say that I love her more than anything. Especially including sex. She makes me whole and complete. And I don't just mean in a friends way. There are more ways to be intimate than just sex (and no I don't mean different types of sex, etc.). You can love someone without even having sex just as much as you can have sex with someone and not love them.

More...
Posted by AHumbleObserver on May 12, 2011 at 10:40 PM · Report this
177
taking a stab at #72s questions;

So... I'm asexual. For those that don't understand what it really is, check out AVEN at asexuality.org. Don't just scan, read until you understand.

While I am asexual, I don't see it as a true orientation. It's not like straight, gay, bi, etc. You can be straight (like I am) and be asexual. There're so many different aspects of asexuality to consider as well... like romantic and aromantic. There're a lot of grey areas. But I do think asexuality is something that exists.

Sure, I think that asexuals should disclose that they are asexual at the beginning of the relationship. But not because they're asexual... shouldn't it be that at the beginning of any relationship you and your potential partner disclose what exactly you're looking to get out of the relationship. Sexuality or Orientation shouldn't have anything to do with that cause thats a common sense thing.

& I was just thinking. As an asexual, I like people for their personalities and intellect and common interests. I'm more aromantic than romantic, but if I were to be with anyone then I would want to have a bond with them and be monogamous (if it were another asexual). If I were going to be with someone sexual I wouldn't mind if they had someone to have sex with as long as they weren't romantically attracted to them.

Lastly, I do see asexual relationships as being deeper than just friendships. For any relationship to work there has to be some romantic bond. Saying that without sex its just a friendship would be like saying all sexual relationships are basically friends with benefits. There obviously has to be a connection regardless of whether a couple has sex or not.
Posted by Lindsey3279 on June 6, 2011 at 10:10 AM · Report this
178
all of you are nothing but close-minded bigots like homophobes and racists you claim to detest. now i see why asexuals like myself need to let people know we exist. we don't want to keep you from having sex or enjoying it any more than gays want straight men to become gay (an often uttered lie from homophobes). please stop your hateful remarks.
Posted by celticlord88 on August 1, 2012 at 4:48 PM · Report this
179
35) I have a background of happy childhood and caring parents. I'm an atheist. I have no physical deformity and I've even been asked for a date by opposite sex and called beautiful. I enjoy good company and I give high value for a good discussion. Kindness, open mindedness, intelligence and creativity appeal to me and I often feel interested/attracted towards other people.

Still, I've never been in love or had a relationship. I'm not interested in sex and the thought of establishing a relationship by exchanging bodily fluids just sounds gross to me. Where's imagination? I understand sex as a natural component in relationship when nature and babies come in, but what about the other aspects of human interaction? I myself hope to be able to find a partner in future. Someone I can trust to, someone I can respect and honour and love. Someone I can test my limits with and share the big and little things in life. Someone I can get old with. Someone who feels the same respect towards who I am and feels safe and content sharing his/her life with me. Not all asexuals feel the need for romanticism but I do.

People who have high sex drive and who can't seem to bother to think outside of their box easily regard the lack of sex drive as something as a deformity in itself. I don't know. Maybe it's so? But personally I'm not considering my asexuality as a problem at all. To be honest I have other things to concentrate on in life and even actual problems to worry about.

The emphasize both heterosexuals and LGTB people put to sexuality and how to "do it right" amazes me. Religion, politics, evolutionary theories, talk shows, human rights... Why can't people respect the feelings of others and honour each life. I find it completely acceptable to share different views but why to create a war out of whether or not two people can share their life together? One of the reasons I feel aversion towards Christianity is that so many people who advertise themselves as Christians state they're spreading the word of God when they're actually fighting against love and mutual respect. Odd.
More...
Posted by nari on August 26, 2012 at 7:53 AM · Report this
180
And what comes to “labeling” myself an asexual is not a fashion statement or attention seeking. It’s accepting who I am and finding the right terminology to explain myself when I’m confronted with the need to do so. The term “asexual” is there to help me to overcome such situations. (Plus, it gives me search word to use on google at those times when I’m feeling utterly tired over the world wide sex drive spreading throughout the television and journalism. I guess everyone has at times the need to feel connected somehow.

(Plus, still concerning on the religion part of the discussion, I also know Christians who cherish life in all of its forms. It's amazing how easy it is to give them the equal amount of respect in return.)
Posted by nari on August 26, 2012 at 8:09 AM · Report this

Add a comment

Advertisement
 

Want great deals and a chance to win tickets to the best shows in Seattle? Join The Stranger Presents email list!


All contents © Index Newspapers, LLC
1535 11th Ave (Third Floor), Seattle, WA 98122
Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Takedown Policy