Slog
News & ArtsFriday, August 28, 2009
Politics What Planet?
Posted by Bryan T. Bissell on Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 12:21 PM
Rep. Adam Smith, who recently held a big health care town hall meeting in Lakewood, doesn't agree with Savage on this one.
From the Tacoma News-Tribune:
Smith said it is a member of Congress's job to listen to constituents. And he said it was wrong for some members of Congress to ridicule and condemn those who were passionate — and sometimes rude — at these meetings."It doesn't do my profession any good to make fun of people," Smith said, specifically referencing a YouTube video in which U.S. Rep. Barney Frank asks a constituent "On what planet do you spend most of your time?"
"You have to take all comers," Smith said. "If you don't ... find something else to do for a living."
1
Rep. Smith is an actual participant in the nation's political process.
He has been elected by receiving hundreds of thousands of Americans' votes.
He goes to Washington and makes laws.
He interacts with his District.
Dan is a clueless poorly attired aging hipster who talks a big show (albeit crudely and ungrammatically) but has never actually done ANYTHING to advance ANYTHING.
All the causes he touches turn to shit.
He has been elected by receiving hundreds of thousands of Americans' votes.
He goes to Washington and makes laws.
He interacts with his District.
Dan is a clueless poorly attired aging hipster who talks a big show (albeit crudely and ungrammatically) but has never actually done ANYTHING to advance ANYTHING.
All the causes he touches turn to shit.
2
I respectfully disagree with Mr. Smith.
If the content of the widely viewed clip of Rep. Frank was all there was to that town hall, Rep. Smith would be correct.
But it wasn't.
Rep. Frank engaged his audience with grace and humor. To characterize the legislation in question as a "Nazi Plan" is not simply "rude". It is a tactic designed to prevent any further debate - an attempt of sabotage.
Rep. Frank disarmed it - and several other attempts, while maintaining his composure and sense of humor. His actions contributed to further dialog being possible.
If the content of the widely viewed clip of Rep. Frank was all there was to that town hall, Rep. Smith would be correct.
But it wasn't.
Rep. Frank engaged his audience with grace and humor. To characterize the legislation in question as a "Nazi Plan" is not simply "rude". It is a tactic designed to prevent any further debate - an attempt of sabotage.
Rep. Frank disarmed it - and several other attempts, while maintaining his composure and sense of humor. His actions contributed to further dialog being possible.
3
The notion that every opinion has merit and deserves an equal hearing is what got us in this mess. Sometimes, when a person is behaving like a dining room table, you have to talk to them like one. Talking to her like a grown-up, capable human being only reinforces the notion that she is one.
If I went into a political discussion shouting "Poop! Farts! Poop! Farts!" I can't expect to be taken seriously. The same goes for shouting "Nazi! Death Panels! Nazi! Death Panels!" In both cases, it's disruptive, irrelevant nonsense.
If I went into a political discussion shouting "Poop! Farts! Poop! Farts!" I can't expect to be taken seriously. The same goes for shouting "Nazi! Death Panels! Nazi! Death Panels!" In both cases, it's disruptive, irrelevant nonsense.
4
I understand Rep. Smith's point. However, when someone spouts utter, complete lies at a public forum, they must be challenged. In the case of the TeaBagTerroristBrigade, ridicule is the most polite way to deal with them - and more than they deserve.
5
Some days you just have to realize that listening to people who live in Fear, filled up with Lies from those who want America to live in Fear, is... just plain wrong.
6
"It doesn't do my profession any good to make fun of people..."
It doesn't do the political dialogue in this country any good to treat hysterical claptrap with respect. Treat it seriously, sure. Barney was treating her seriously. Because she was seriously nuts.
It doesn't do the political dialogue in this country any good to treat hysterical claptrap with respect. Treat it seriously, sure. Barney was treating her seriously. Because she was seriously nuts.
7
@4 I'm in total agreement. People like the LaRouche Nazi woman and the town hall screamers have nothing to add to a town hall format. Their idiocy should be tolerated only as long as it is reasonable to be polite to the raving lunatic you meet on your way to work.
Suffering these kind of people's wholly destructive mode of communication with a smile turns the town hall meeting into a pageant and ruins any chance for actual direct dialogue between constituents and politicians.
Suffering these kind of people's wholly destructive mode of communication with a smile turns the town hall meeting into a pageant and ruins any chance for actual direct dialogue between constituents and politicians.
8
Congressman Smith lacks the most elemental understanding of his profession. His crude mis-articulation of what he thinks his job is suggests that he may be unsuited for that job.
It is one thing to say that a democratically elected representative is obliged to entertain dissent. It is another to suggest that a democratically elected representive is obliged to entertain goddamn fools.
The fulminating ass that confronted Congressman Frank was properly dismissed, and we'd all be better served if Congressman Smith grew a pair.
It is one thing to say that a democratically elected representative is obliged to entertain dissent. It is another to suggest that a democratically elected representive is obliged to entertain goddamn fools.
The fulminating ass that confronted Congressman Frank was properly dismissed, and we'd all be better served if Congressman Smith grew a pair.
9
Right. I mean how far do you take this "everyone must be heard" stuff? Surely not to the point of including the irrational. If someone were racing toward the podium wielding a knife, shouting, would anyone say, "Don't stop him/her. He/she must be heard!"?
It's very cool to have disagreements about policy, but when the banter turns off-subject and loony, it's time for intervention. Barney Frank was right fucking on.
It's very cool to have disagreements about policy, but when the banter turns off-subject and loony, it's time for intervention. Barney Frank was right fucking on.
12
I am sick to death of certian totally stupid, groundless and off the wall ideas pulled out of the ass of some fat-ass conservative living off of Social(sitic) Security being "as valuable" as well thought out questions on either side of the debate.
Rep. Frank had the balls to tell that woman exactly what she should have been told. Sorry to hear the Smith doesn't have that sort of courage.
Rep. Frank had the balls to tell that woman exactly what she should have been told. Sorry to hear the Smith doesn't have that sort of courage.
13
Democrats are too goddamn reasonable.
Republicans either don't hold town hall meetings or deliberately fill them with toadies (and arrest/exclude anyone who looks like they might disagree). Bush's sham town halls are a perfect example of this. It's great that Democrats are doing the right thing and opening up this issue for debate, but it's not acceptable to argue with loons. Ridicule them and dismiss them. They don't get to debate with grownups until they behave like grownups.
Republicans either don't hold town hall meetings or deliberately fill them with toadies (and arrest/exclude anyone who looks like they might disagree). Bush's sham town halls are a perfect example of this. It's great that Democrats are doing the right thing and opening up this issue for debate, but it's not acceptable to argue with loons. Ridicule them and dismiss them. They don't get to debate with grownups until they behave like grownups.
14
Frank has a very safe seat in a liberal district. Smith has swing district that he has managed to make seem less swingy due a deft reading of the tenor of his district. Smith maybe a bit cowardly with this stance but it makes sense to me. Or would you all rather see Smith be more bold and liberal and have the district fall back into the hands of the likes of Randy Tate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_Tate ?
15
Everyone does have a right to be heard. It's called voting. The constituents have spoken. Congressmen need to remember that the loudest voices don't represent the majority. And even though there's nothing wrong per se with being loud, free speech is a two-way street: there is a time to speak, and a time to shut up and let others speak. That's how democracy works.
16
I will add this though, I am bringing a couple of guns to the next rally for Sue Hutchinson; it's my constitutional right to do so. And all of my other liberal friends should bring their fire arms as well.
17
The dining-room table lady was also telling a Jewish man born in 1940 that he was supporting a "nazi" policy by backing health care reform. It's not simply that her point was wrong-headed and empty (she was not, after all, saying why she thought the policy was wrong, so what's to debate?) -- simply by stating it in those terms she crossed the line into being deliberately offensive.
Imagine if somebody got up and asked Obama why he was supporting a policy of health care "lynchings." Does Smith think it would be proper for the President under those circumstances to call the person out for their choice of words?
Frank showed remarkable restraint, all things considered.
Message to Ms. Dining-Room-Table and her fellow tea-bagging Insurance Industry proxies: If you want to get up in public and air your ideas and your ideas are stupid and offensive, be prepared to be told so. That is free speech in a nutshell.
Imagine if somebody got up and asked Obama why he was supporting a policy of health care "lynchings." Does Smith think it would be proper for the President under those circumstances to call the person out for their choice of words?
Frank showed remarkable restraint, all things considered.
Message to Ms. Dining-Room-Table and her fellow tea-bagging Insurance Industry proxies: If you want to get up in public and air your ideas and your ideas are stupid and offensive, be prepared to be told so. That is free speech in a nutshell.
18
I don't think I'd call it a "profession." Questionable statement/choice of words in and of itself.
You can either take the direct representation route or the free acting agent of the people route. He apparently chooses to go with the shield brought about by taking the direct representation route.
If someone is going to say they're representing me they damn well better at least of a modicum of the baloney detection kit. http://www.xenu.net/archive/baloney_dete…
Americans for the most part often times seem to not have a very high degree of intellectual self-defense ability. As a representative, an acting elite, chosen for the very purpose of acting on the best interests of a constituency should... well... be able to identify bullshit, ie be better trained in the intellectual kung-fu than the average Joe.
You can either take the direct representation route or the free acting agent of the people route. He apparently chooses to go with the shield brought about by taking the direct representation route.
If someone is going to say they're representing me they damn well better at least of a modicum of the baloney detection kit. http://www.xenu.net/archive/baloney_dete…
Americans for the most part often times seem to not have a very high degree of intellectual self-defense ability. As a representative, an acting elite, chosen for the very purpose of acting on the best interests of a constituency should... well... be able to identify bullshit, ie be better trained in the intellectual kung-fu than the average Joe.
19
Adam Smith is looking to get bitch-slapped by Barney Frank and I wouldn't blame Barney a bit...hey Adam, when you're the hardest working, most powerful man in the House, THEN you can slap down insubordinates...right now, you ARE the insubordinate and you, like the loud mouth rabble fucking up the whole democratic process with their moronic brayings, just need to STFU.
21
Perhaps one should have to pass a fifth grade civics exam before being allowed into a townhall meeting with their Representative. It would certainly weed out the TeaBagterroristBrigade.
Actually, it would probably weed out about 65% of the population...
Actually, it would probably weed out about 65% of the population...
24
These people are not here to express legitimate concerns about health care. If they were, they would actually ask questions and not engage in name calling or parrot slogans that they learned from Rush Limbaugh or Glenn Beck. They aren't there to learn or to listen, but only to prevent real and honest debate.
These vermin were in charge of this country for eight years and look what happened. Intelligent people are under no obligation to treat them respectfully. They should sit down, shut up and let the grown ups do their job.
These vermin were in charge of this country for eight years and look what happened. Intelligent people are under no obligation to treat them respectfully. They should sit down, shut up and let the grown ups do their job.
25
"Rep. Adam Smith, who recently held a big health care town hall meeting in Lakewood, doesn't agree with Savage on this one."
The Gospel according to Dan.
With links to the Holy Postings of Dan.
Slog is the Cult of Personality and the Credulous are the Believers.
The Gospel according to Dan.
With links to the Holy Postings of Dan.
Slog is the Cult of Personality and the Credulous are the Believers.
26
@ 17 I totally agree. The lady was a twit and she used the wrong inflammatory language to the wrong (or right!) Senator. Had she shown some maturity instead of making utterly absurd comparisons, I am sure Frank would have gladly answered her question. She should have asked for details of the health plan, or at least if she was making a "statement" she should have had a point rather than belittle the whole idea of hc reform from the start.
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