Slog
News & ArtsSaturday, August 22, 2009
Politics Disillusioned With Obama: Not Just The Gays Anymore
Posted by Dan Savage on Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 10:06 AM
A major factor in President Obama’s slide in today’s big Washington Post/ABC News poll, which is preoccupying the political classes today, is his surprisingly sharp drops among Democrats and even liberals... the drop among Dems and liberals is also a key driving factor in the President’s skid, according to WaPo polling analyst Jennifer Agiesta, who graciously provided the additional data. This suggests Obama’s conciliatory approach to the GOP, and his lack of clarity around the public option—both of which are presumably alienating Dems and liberals—could be key factors driving his dip....
WaPo polling analyst Agiesta cautioned that independents were likely a greater factor, but she said Obama’s problems among Dems and liberals were clearly playing a key role: “This is the first sign that something is going wrong with his base.”
I'd say it was the second sign.
3
Eight years of the Bush horror and now Obama deciding no he can't. The oligarchy must be thrilled.
5
It's much easier to destroy than to rebuilt. And 8 years of clusterfuck will take more than 6 months to fix.
6
Um, yeah. Why has Obama dropped in opinion polls? Because people are coming back down to reality now that the warm-n-fuzzy storybook election is becoming a distant memory. People are finally taking off their rose-colored glasses and recognizing that this guy is just a MAN and not the freakin' messiah (as well they should). Making everybody happy in an extremely divided nation is simply not possible. The guy is doing his best at an extremely difficult job. Obama's not letting anyone down. You people were fools for mindlessly drinking up the Kool-Aid as much as you did.
7
Reading Dan Savage talk about politics is kind of like watching a retarded kid at a spelling be. You feel bad for him, but you can't help but laugh endlessly. Dan is wrong 100 percent of the time, and has absolutely ZERO analytical capabilities. Who knew that being a cock expert made you qualified to comment on politics?
8
With any new president I always try to make allowances for the insulating effects of the security and brain-trust perimeter, the sobering effects of the secret briefings, the human effects of being at the actual helm, the gradual throttling back of campaign hyperbole and promises--but O's made so many mistakes that are obvious to both the left and the right. The worst is the whole bipartisanship charade. A million people have said it before: the right will NEVER respect you for trying to reach out, so fuck 'em. If you have to, O, get a pair of custom-made cowboy boots like W (speaking of charades) and start kicking some shit. Start with Congress.
9
@6,
I voted for him because I figure he could do a better job than anyone the Republicans would put up. And yes, I still think he's doing a better job than anyone the Republicans could produce. I have a feeling a lot of people voted Democrat for the same reason. How well do you think McCain and Palin would be doing now? Better than Obama? I think not. We're 7+ months into a 4 year term. It takes longer than that to fix 8 years of GOP fuck ups than that. If this were year 3, I would understand your bitterness, but it's not.
I voted for him because I figure he could do a better job than anyone the Republicans would put up. And yes, I still think he's doing a better job than anyone the Republicans could produce. I have a feeling a lot of people voted Democrat for the same reason. How well do you think McCain and Palin would be doing now? Better than Obama? I think not. We're 7+ months into a 4 year term. It takes longer than that to fix 8 years of GOP fuck ups than that. If this were year 3, I would understand your bitterness, but it's not.
10
Even the Obamatons have to admit that, at the very least, this presidency has had a disasterous summer, in terms of PR. Even if he needs more time on many of these issues, he should have a cogent, cohesive message explaining that.
What wa so powerful about his candidacy is that it had the ring of truth (which was change). But that is gone. Now he just sounds like a normal politician, which is to say a schmuck.
What wa so powerful about his candidacy is that it had the ring of truth (which was change). But that is gone. Now he just sounds like a normal politician, which is to say a schmuck.
11
he failed to mobilize folks in arkansas lousiana sd mt etc. where the blue dogs are.
he failed to explain the problem well and propose a solution that's understandable from a moral narrative point of view. see the lakoff article in dailykos, it's got it all ....
and he says the trut':
"the villainizing of real insurance company villains should have begun from the beginning"
ayup. you can hardly explain why we should reform 1.6 the whole economy just with policyspeak....you gotta make that lower management guy living in little rock or shreveport mad as hell and livid for change...not gonna do it telling him the insurers are okay, just need a little competition...need to tell that guy he's being fucking ripped off by obscene insurance companies....they are sucking their 30% profit and overhead out of HIM AND HIS FAMILY taking contributions for 20 years then watching him go banktupt thru co pays ... and denying coverage....
Obama was pretty brilliant at figuring out a complex game to get elected, I can't believe he can't figure out the politics of getting 9 more democratic votes in the senate from blue dog states.
he failed to explain the problem well and propose a solution that's understandable from a moral narrative point of view. see the lakoff article in dailykos, it's got it all ....
and he says the trut':
"the villainizing of real insurance company villains should have begun from the beginning"
ayup. you can hardly explain why we should reform 1.6 the whole economy just with policyspeak....you gotta make that lower management guy living in little rock or shreveport mad as hell and livid for change...not gonna do it telling him the insurers are okay, just need a little competition...need to tell that guy he's being fucking ripped off by obscene insurance companies....they are sucking their 30% profit and overhead out of HIM AND HIS FAMILY taking contributions for 20 years then watching him go banktupt thru co pays ... and denying coverage....
Obama was pretty brilliant at figuring out a complex game to get elected, I can't believe he can't figure out the politics of getting 9 more democratic votes in the senate from blue dog states.
12
Why is eveybody so surprised? A state senator and only two years in the Senate, mostly spent campaigning. No management or business experience. Yes, Wilson and Lincoln had similar weak political experience. But it's time to elect somone next time that has, above all, political wisdom over time.
13
the most terrifying thought i have, second only to my surely imminent demise, is to imagine what would be happening today if the repugs won the last election. particularly as the crazy train seems to be picking up speed..like here..
http://americansfortruth.com/news/barack… ..and here .http://www.birthers.org/
while my dissatisfaction can border on anger some days , most of the time i'm still giving this process the benefit of doubt.
still..
http://americansfortruth.com/news/barack… ..and here .http://www.birthers.org/
while my dissatisfaction can border on anger some days , most of the time i'm still giving this process the benefit of doubt.
still..
14
@10
What the hell made you think he wasn't a normal politician?? And vague concepts like "change" and "hope" have been used by virtually every politician. It's like all of you are just waking up from deep dream-sleep or something. Creepy!
So glad I was outside the U.S. for most of the campaign. I came back for the tail-end of it though only to find that most of my friends had turned into dithering idiots for this guy. It was WEIRD.
What the hell made you think he wasn't a normal politician?? And vague concepts like "change" and "hope" have been used by virtually every politician. It's like all of you are just waking up from deep dream-sleep or something. Creepy!
So glad I was outside the U.S. for most of the campaign. I came back for the tail-end of it though only to find that most of my friends had turned into dithering idiots for this guy. It was WEIRD.
15
This just seems so obvious to me. I mean, some very rough math here: 46% of Americans voted for McCain. His lowest disapproval rating (right after inauguration) was 29%. So, figure there's no way he'll ever win over, say, half of the people who voted for McCain, no matter what he does. So, his bi-partisanship will, at the very most, win over 23% of Americans.
Meanwhile, how many of the 53% who voted for him will be pissed if he doesn't deliver on the agenda he laid out because he compromises with Republicans?
Meanwhile, how many of the 53% who voted for him will be pissed if he doesn't deliver on the agenda he laid out because he compromises with Republicans?
16
@6 "Obama is not letting anyone down"
Here are some ways Obama has let me down.
1) Refusing to prosecute Bush for war crimes
2)The DOJ brief defending DOMA
3) Laughing off the 2.3 Million people who wrote in to ask him to end the prohibition on marijuana during his one and only online town hall meeting
4) Ramping up the war in Afghanistan
5) Not standing up to the GOP and his own party on health care. We should be arguing about universal health care right now and we aren't.
6) Sending billions of dollars to the banks while some of us can't even get student loans from those banks (fucking Wells Fargo.)
7) Not ordering a stop loss on Don't Ask Don't Tell.
I could go on, but you get the point. Obama won because the country was ready for progress, and yet he continues to pander to the right wing. He's got to stop and so does his party, or they will lose us all.
Here are some ways Obama has let me down.
1) Refusing to prosecute Bush for war crimes
2)The DOJ brief defending DOMA
3) Laughing off the 2.3 Million people who wrote in to ask him to end the prohibition on marijuana during his one and only online town hall meeting
4) Ramping up the war in Afghanistan
5) Not standing up to the GOP and his own party on health care. We should be arguing about universal health care right now and we aren't.
6) Sending billions of dollars to the banks while some of us can't even get student loans from those banks (fucking Wells Fargo.)
7) Not ordering a stop loss on Don't Ask Don't Tell.
I could go on, but you get the point. Obama won because the country was ready for progress, and yet he continues to pander to the right wing. He's got to stop and so does his party, or they will lose us all.
17
The failures of the Obama Administration are shocking because 1)They're such stupid, obvious mistakes and 2)They ran such a brilliant, well-organized campaign.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that a political party needs to keep the base happy, throw the radicals a bone or two and reach out to the folks in the middle who are the ones who get the politician elected in the first place. You don't irritate the base, piss off the radicals, ignore the middle AND reach out to the Other Team in an effort to be fuckin' "bi-partisan", the stupidest, laziest word currently in vogue in Democratic circles.
Epic fail.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that a political party needs to keep the base happy, throw the radicals a bone or two and reach out to the folks in the middle who are the ones who get the politician elected in the first place. You don't irritate the base, piss off the radicals, ignore the middle AND reach out to the Other Team in an effort to be fuckin' "bi-partisan", the stupidest, laziest word currently in vogue in Democratic circles.
Epic fail.
18
I'm with PC on the making the insurance companies the villain. A friend's brother (a Republican) posted on Facebook the other day that he didn't want some government bureaucrat in change of deciding what care his special needs child could or could not have. I was like what do you think happens now? Some insurance company bureaucrats, most of the time in a for-profit corporation, sit down and decide what care is and is not covered. Do you really want people with a profit motivation continuing to make these decisions (generally, the more treatments they refuse to cover, the more money they make)?
And, the best part about that argument is... if you do actually want a profit-motivated person making those decisions, you can have it. No one's going to force you to have the govt. bureaucrat make the decisions instead.
Anyways, the insurance companies need to be hated for people to really be on board, since apparently hate is the only thing that some Republicans respond to.
And, the best part about that argument is... if you do actually want a profit-motivated person making those decisions, you can have it. No one's going to force you to have the govt. bureaucrat make the decisions instead.
Anyways, the insurance companies need to be hated for people to really be on board, since apparently hate is the only thing that some Republicans respond to.
19
"even liberals" should have read "especially liberals", since it was liberal ethics obama stomped on first. it is pathetic that the reporter doesn't know this.
21
It's so ironic. A year and a half ago, I was in the minority as a Hillary supporter, though my Obama-supporting friends were polite about it. Now I'm defending Obama more than they are! I guess they were really only "fair weather friends."
22
Wasn't it John Edwards who, by clearly actually being ready and able to not back down on his political principles, pushed O and Hils to pretend to be fierce advocates early in the primary race? If we didn't mind so much about where John-John's penis goes now and then, he could be the steadying veep right now, showing O how to get shit dome.
24
Perhaps Obama and the Blue Dogs need an object lesson.
In five days, FireDogLake and partners raised nearly $400,000 for the 60 progressive members of Congress who agreed to draw a line in the sand over a public plan.
You, too, can offer carrots to these progressive politicians at ACT Blue:
http://www.actblue.com/page/theytookthep…
In five days, FireDogLake and partners raised nearly $400,000 for the 60 progressive members of Congress who agreed to draw a line in the sand over a public plan.
You, too, can offer carrots to these progressive politicians at ACT Blue:
http://www.actblue.com/page/theytookthep…
25
@9: And this is the problem with the two party system: I don't vote Democrat because I WANT to, but because I don't want to vote Republican. I want to be voting for people I believe in and not just choosing the lesser of two evils.
26
Fuck bipartisanship. Fuck any dem, including Obama, who tries to play bipartisan with huge majorities in the house and senate. Republicans don't play nice, so why should dems? Massive opportunity lost. EPIC FAIL.
28
Governing during a deep recession is hard, regardless of 'base'.
Obama's support is still better than Reagan's was during the 1982 recession, when Reagan hovered around a 40% approval rating. Reagan did still govern, and finished out his two terms as a highly influential President.
Obama's support is still better than Reagan's was during the 1982 recession, when Reagan hovered around a 40% approval rating. Reagan did still govern, and finished out his two terms as a highly influential President.
29
I got my pony. All my friends got their ponies. Whatsamatta, you didn't get your pony? It probably just got lost in the pony express.
Hang in there. You'll get your pony - unless you stop believing.
People who stop believing never get their ponies.
Hang in there. You'll get your pony - unless you stop believing.
People who stop believing never get their ponies.
31
This isn't just about Obama dropping the ball on gay issues...the handling of healthcare has been lame and wimpy. Frankly, I think they've tried to move too fast on healthcare and too slow on the gay issues. A smarter move on the administrations part would have been to focus intently on the economy and stimulus packages, do a stop loss on DADT and make obvious efforts to get congressional approval moving on THAT repeal, (repeal of DOMA can hold off a bit) and gradually start the ball rolling on healthcare reform. I desperately want REAL healthcare reform and I think that by first rushing it, without properly informing and educating the dimwitted public, AND by this moronic bi-partisianship, they've shot themselves in the foot...(and, instead of trying to sell it to the Republicans, they would have been wiser to sell it to the fuckin' Bluedogs, who are the real culprits when it comes to the whimpification of healthcare reform...)
32
Obama should amend this healthcare bill to include a prescription for himself - one for a pair of testicles, so he can say "fuck the republicans" and stop spending so much time trying to make nice with nutjobs like the lady with the hitler poster.
33
"...the second sign"
right.
disappointing the Dan was the FIRST sign that things were terribly awry in Obamelot...
right.
disappointing the Dan was the FIRST sign that things were terribly awry in Obamelot...
34
The investment guru Peter Schiff pointed out that Obama is just "Bush on Steroids". In other words, they have plenty in common.
They both love big government. They both like taxing ordinary Americans to pay for it. They both love war and the military industrial complex. They both think that torture is a great way to extract reliable information. They both love giving trillions of dollars to bankers in "bailouts" to "save the free market".They both support the phony "war on drugs". They both think that the US constitution is "just a piece of paper".
Above all, they BOTH want to keep you locked into the fraudulent "left-right" paradigm and divide you on other issues like religion, race, sexuality and culture so that the elite stay in charge. That way you won't ask any awkward questions about auditing the Federal Reserve.
As a British guy, Obama's election has strong echoes of Tony Blair's victory. Huge public and media hysteria surrounding the anointed one, bullshit slogans and final crushing dissapointment when the penny dropped.
They both love big government. They both like taxing ordinary Americans to pay for it. They both love war and the military industrial complex. They both think that torture is a great way to extract reliable information. They both love giving trillions of dollars to bankers in "bailouts" to "save the free market".They both support the phony "war on drugs". They both think that the US constitution is "just a piece of paper".
Above all, they BOTH want to keep you locked into the fraudulent "left-right" paradigm and divide you on other issues like religion, race, sexuality and culture so that the elite stay in charge. That way you won't ask any awkward questions about auditing the Federal Reserve.
As a British guy, Obama's election has strong echoes of Tony Blair's victory. Huge public and media hysteria surrounding the anointed one, bullshit slogans and final crushing dissapointment when the penny dropped.
36
The problem IS with Obama's base.
The Hysterical Left is incapable of the mature grown-up work of governing in the mean ol' Real World.
They are great at pitching self-righteous piss fits, and quitting and taking their ball home; however.
Dan is a perfect example, and yes- he was ahead of the whiny bitch curve.
Just what you would expect from America's Gay Princess Spokesmodel.
Any Democrat who has been successful as President did so by reaching out to the Middle.
Obama's instincts are good.
The question is whether his political skills will be up to overcoming his greatest obstacle- the Democratic Party Left.
The Hysterical Left is incapable of the mature grown-up work of governing in the mean ol' Real World.
They are great at pitching self-righteous piss fits, and quitting and taking their ball home; however.
Dan is a perfect example, and yes- he was ahead of the whiny bitch curve.
Just what you would expect from America's Gay Princess Spokesmodel.
Any Democrat who has been successful as President did so by reaching out to the Middle.
Obama's instincts are good.
The question is whether his political skills will be up to overcoming his greatest obstacle- the Democratic Party Left.
37
If you want Obama and the Democrats to take action, you have to hold their feet to the fire. As with any politician. Google your senator and your representative and e-mail, phone, write them (in civilized tones, of course) that you find their lack of stones disappointing. So disappointing that you'd be hard pressed to donate to their campaign and vote for them come election time. Demand action and you'll get it. They're already re-thinking dropping the private option because of out-reach. Don't stop hassling them till they get shit done.
38
Carter II. One term and out followed by another two decades of Republican domination. Long live the Messiah.
39
Ouch pretty hot in here. But I'll pile on..Dan is a great sex writer--maybe the best ever. But his political writing is pretty bad. We all know he supported the illegal Iraq War and Occupation and his further writings and mea culpa on the war have been insufficient..there's a much larger yardstick to use when thinking about the world and its machinations--not just the treatment of gay people everywhere (sorry, I'm gay, I don't like the way things are anymore than all y'all out there but there is a FUCK of a lot more going on than a particular minority's stance in any one given (ours) society.
So I'd like Dan to STFU on political writings for awhile, maybe check out some BIll Maher and watch the original FRONTLINE on the Lockerbie bombing and how we had a hand in that terror too...and refrain from considering all of us gays on the same page as him and being part of Obama's base. Nope, I did not vote for him (very happy he won though) I suppose you think I tossed my vote away by going 3rd party, but if you stop and think about it, all us gays should be going 3rd party--coalition-style government. We will not receive our full rights in this country until we do so--Obama is not going to "give" them to us and neither is the US Congress nor the Courts.
So I'd like Dan to STFU on political writings for awhile, maybe check out some BIll Maher and watch the original FRONTLINE on the Lockerbie bombing and how we had a hand in that terror too...and refrain from considering all of us gays on the same page as him and being part of Obama's base. Nope, I did not vote for him (very happy he won though) I suppose you think I tossed my vote away by going 3rd party, but if you stop and think about it, all us gays should be going 3rd party--coalition-style government. We will not receive our full rights in this country until we do so--Obama is not going to "give" them to us and neither is the US Congress nor the Courts.
40
Having bad poll numbers doesn't mean you're doing a bad job. It just means you're not satisfying the immediate needs of a finicky public. Most people like shitty music, movies, books, celebrities, etc. So now suddenly the majority's bullshit opinion means something simply because they're now echoing Savage's faux outrage? Obama is disappointing, but you know, welcome to American politics. At some point to have to accept that the problems with this country go a little deeper than whatever administrator is on the top of the heap.
41
38: Yeah, and I'm sure you have a big hard on over it too, because like every other ineffectual leftist pussy, you'd rather let the Republicans confirm your worst vision of the US than actually have a vision for the future or the willpower to try to build it. It's so much easier to be fat, lazy and cynical. To people like you, this is probably the best thing that could happen. Isn't that what the left really fantasizes about these days? Republican domination and whining liberals bawling their eyes out on the sidelines.
42
41: I'm not a leftist you stupid bitch. I'm a centrist who didn't buy into Obama's empty rhetoric. The guy is a $2000 dollar suit with no occupant. He's a thousand promises that won't be kept. He's the ineffectual leftist pussy who can't even get his own veto-proof-majority party to agree on anything. He waffles more than Ihop. He's a light weight with no spine. In short, he's everything that I was afraid he would be.
43
The only cable news I get is Fox News and the talk endlessly all day about Health Care Reform. Now, over and over and over again they are talking about how Obama's poll numbers a slipping with his liberal Democratic base and it is because they don't want Health Care Reform either. Seriously, this is happening and people are believing it.
44
@7: "Reading Dan Savage talk about politics is kind of like watching a retarded kid at a spelling be [sic]."
You cannot imagine how hard it was to stifle the guffaw that came erupting from my mouth when I read this. Between the misspelling and the third-grade syntax, I could not decide which is funnier.
You cannot imagine how hard it was to stifle the guffaw that came erupting from my mouth when I read this. Between the misspelling and the third-grade syntax, I could not decide which is funnier.
45
I'd say it was the 7th sign.
Some of us have been "disillusioned with him" (read: "pissed off at him") since his FISA vote, before he even became President.
Anyone who was paying attention could see that Obama taking Progressives for granted long before the election.
Some of us have been "disillusioned with him" (read: "pissed off at him") since his FISA vote, before he even became President.
Anyone who was paying attention could see that Obama taking Progressives for granted long before the election.
46
ahem, as we have witnessed above, there were a whole lot of lefties that were disillusioned with Obama long before he, what dan sees as reneged on his promises to the gay people. We have much much bigger fish to fry, Dan, STFU. its time to get on board and stop pushing for our one issue, you are wealthy, a homeowner in your choice neighborhood and have a good job--you've made it. Now how about trying to do something for us all?
47
Indefinite detentions, extraordinary rendition, military tribunals, government secrecy... I'm beginning to think "Obama" is really Dick Cheney in an extremely clever disguise.
Advertisement
Most Commented on Slog
-
Hating People Doesn't Make Them Thinner by Jen Graves
-
Los Angeles Gay Bar Bans Bachelorette Parties Until Marriage Equality Is Attained by David Schmader
-
Fill in the Blank by Grant Brissey
-
This Reminds Me of the Great Calculator Scare of the Late '70s/Early '80s by David Schmader
-
Idiot Tries to Defend Bigoted Anti-Gay-Marriage Preacher on Anderson Cooper by Paul Constant
-
Six Moms with Too Much Time on Their Hands and a Shitty Website Decide to Fight Gay Superheroes by Paul Constant
-
Why Mayor McGinn's Wife Canceled Her Family's Seattle Times Subscription by Eli Sanders
-
What the Hell Is Wrong With Seattle's Pride Parade? by Dominic Holden
-
The Saturday Morning News by Unpaid Intern
-
NYC Man Ticketed for Not Riding in the Bike Lane by Jonathan Golob
RSS
Facebook
Twitter
Comments (47) RSS