Slog
News & ArtsFriday, August 21, 2009
Politics Re: Do The Right Thing, Greg
Posted by Dan Savage on Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 1:20 PM
So... the mayor conceded. And his graciousness in defeat seems to have generated a lot of good will. Which is weird. Because when I suggested yesterday that the mayor should concede before the votes were all counted, and that it would look classy and gracious of him, and generate good will, folks in comments told me that I was an idiot who should shut up because I didn't know what I was talking about. Hm.
2
Dan, I mean this with the greatest of respect: grow up and unbunch your panties. Yay, you, you were right; poor you, you were mistreated. Get over it.
3
24 hours ago, it was not a foregone conclusion that he would be #3. After the last release of votes, it seems like a 99% probability that there's no way he'll make the top two. So, after that new information, it made a lot more sense for him to concede.
I really don't see how conceding today vs. Monday or Tuesday (when even more votes would be known) would have generated any more or less good will.
I really don't see how conceding today vs. Monday or Tuesday (when even more votes would be known) would have generated any more or less good will.
4
Dan, in the doubter's defense; you are gay afterall. I mean, how can we really be sure that anything you say isn't just a product of cock-lust crazed insanity?
5
Yeah, but re-reading the comments show that Will in Seattle had your back. Is that what you really, truly want us to see???
6
You are such an unendurable douchebag, Dan Savage. Get the fuck over yourself! You're not smart, ugly as all sin, and embarrass the shit out of this town.
7
Gloating can feel great, but when you publicize it you just seem small. Congrats on being right, but, come on, take it offline. Isn't being right the real prize?
10
BITCH MADE FOOLS GOTTA CLAIM THEY VICTORIES, CUZ THEY AIN'T HAVING MANY. TRUE GOONS ONLY MURK AGAIN AND AGAIN. NO REGARD FOR HUMAN LIFE, NO WORRIES ABOUT THE FAME, ONLY THE PURITY AND THE GAME.
13
haha it's funny how upset people get with you, Dan. "Grow up", "you just seem small", "you're ugly", etc. You're a-okay in my book. We could do a hell of a lot worse.
14
Dan, no one should concede defeat until a loss is nearly certain. See, for example, Al Gore 2000, Gregoire 2004, or Franken 2008.
Yesterday at the time of your post, Nickels' loss was nowhere near certain.
Yesterday at the time of your post, Nickels' loss was nowhere near certain.
15
@13 Don't get me wrong: I rather enjoy Dan. But whining about what other people say about him - people who likely do not know him personally - is rather unatractive. He was right. And every detractor from yesterday knew that after ten this morning.
16
dan, when it comes to politics, you constantly disappoint. iraq war support, blaming blacks for prop 8, your over-reaction to obama's upholding of dadt (which is a law, duh, however evil, its a LAW).......
so you made the obvious prediction about nickels. but so did the folks at publicola, and every other politically interested seattlelite....
(so bravo, mr. ego......)
so you made the obvious prediction about nickels. but so did the folks at publicola, and every other politically interested seattlelite....
(so bravo, mr. ego......)
17
Never forget, if Dan hadn't run, then everyone else would have sat on their hands.
Even if you were a dick about the DADT/DOMA thing.
Even if you were a dick about the DADT/DOMA thing.
19
8 years of incompetence and he makes a nice speech and its generated good will? No wonder we get a bunch of pussy politicians. Guy sucked, you wont be missed Greg.
21
Re: 16
Seriously.
Dan, I still don't recall you ever issuing anything like a public apology for your support of the Iraq War. In fact, the only thing I've ever seen you write about it is that you're a sex advice columnist, so you don't have any responsibility not to say stupid shit in public or endorse evil political agenda. Of course, you were also the editor of the paper when you wrote that piece in support of the war, but god forbid you let the truth get in the way of your excuses.
But considering the sheer volume of unbelievably stupid shit you've said in public about politics, it's pretty ballsy to cop 'tude about one thing you were right about.
Seriously.
Dan, I still don't recall you ever issuing anything like a public apology for your support of the Iraq War. In fact, the only thing I've ever seen you write about it is that you're a sex advice columnist, so you don't have any responsibility not to say stupid shit in public or endorse evil political agenda. Of course, you were also the editor of the paper when you wrote that piece in support of the war, but god forbid you let the truth get in the way of your excuses.
But considering the sheer volume of unbelievably stupid shit you've said in public about politics, it's pretty ballsy to cop 'tude about one thing you were right about.
22
Timing is everything, Dan. You were wrong 24 hours ago for the reasons already enumerated. Being right now doesn't mean you weren't wrong yesterday.
24
don't let the commenters get your gloat, Dan.
good thing the city didn't pass a brag fee.
do ya think will garfunkel and oates perform their new song, "sex columnist are smug" tonight?
& is blowing ones horn an acceptable metaphor for auto-fellatio?
good thing the city didn't pass a brag fee.
do ya think will garfunkel and oates perform their new song, "sex columnist are smug" tonight?
& is blowing ones horn an acceptable metaphor for auto-fellatio?
25
Dans crowing about the alignment of his recommendation with the actions of a guy whose judgement just got himself booted from office. Just sayin'.
26
Haha, Dan with his editorial position, award-winning column, legions of fans, podcast, TV pilot, frequent interviews by the MSM, boyfriend, kid and that one damned shirt he wears on every appearance-- should humble himself to Slog commenters?
Riiiiiight.
Riiiiiight.
28
Conceeding is something a politician should do when he/she feels it's appropriate, and ideally, before a lot of time has passed (ref: Norm Coleman). But it's unseemly for others to prematurely pressure a politician to resign. The backlash you experienced was undoubtably because people were willing to give Nickels another day or two to come to the conclusion himself.
30
"Dan, no one should concede defeat until a loss is nearly certain. See, for example, Al Gore 2000, Gregoire 2004, or Franken 2008. Yesterday at the time of your post, Nickels' loss was nowhere near certain."
OMFG - historically informed common sense on the SLOG!!! Hell freezes over!
Nice job, seandr.
OMFG - historically informed common sense on the SLOG!!! Hell freezes over!
Nice job, seandr.
31
Isn't it painfully obvious to you yet Dan? It's not the message that the majority objects to, it's the messenger.
32
You (a) are an idiot, (b) should shut up, and (c) don't know what you're talking about. That much is certain. The fact that Nickels conceded today was mere coincidence.
33
@27: HOW DARE I LET DAN HAVE HIS OPINION!! ON HIS BLOG!! HOWWWW DAAAAAREEE IIIII?!
@29: When's the last time some TV news outlet asked you for your opinion on something political? That's right: never. I wonder what Dan's done... hmmm...
Whether you agree or not is immaterial to the fact that this is his blog, his paper and his opinion. In fact, you'd be pretty stupid if you were seriously giving yourself so much credit that you think your assessment of his political commentator skill was worth the bytes it so selfishly squanders.
@29: When's the last time some TV news outlet asked you for your opinion on something political? That's right: never. I wonder what Dan's done... hmmm...
Whether you agree or not is immaterial to the fact that this is his blog, his paper and his opinion. In fact, you'd be pretty stupid if you were seriously giving yourself so much credit that you think your assessment of his political commentator skill was worth the bytes it so selfishly squanders.
35
@30,31,32 What is up your butt? Did Dan steal your boyfriend or something?
Speak for yourself, please; I have my own voice thank you, as do these other commenters...
Speak for yourself, please; I have my own voice thank you, as do these other commenters...
36
#33 my assessment of his competency as a political commentator is not all that far fetched, nor is it an uncommon assessment. I don't frankly care whether you think it's worth the bytes.
Are you trying to say that Dan's TV appearances (which are 100% gay-related) give him the credibility to spout off about when a candidate should concede?
What is it with these fucking fanboys anyway?
Are you trying to say that Dan's TV appearances (which are 100% gay-related) give him the credibility to spout off about when a candidate should concede?
What is it with these fucking fanboys anyway?
37
I think Greg did some good things and some not so good things. We all do. I'm ready for a new mayor, but I see no need to shit on Greg. He was gracious in conceeding. Best wishes, Greg.
38
@36: You do know what a blog is, right? You do know that Dan is entitled to his opinion, right? You do know he'll write whatever the hell he wants to regardless of what you say, right? Good.
I love when people come to blogs and stamp their feet when they run up against the fact that it's someone else doing all the writing and making all the money. You can tell him he's wrong or look down your nose all you want, but he still makes bread off this. And actually, all your pussing-about is making him more money out of ad revenue.
I love when people come to blogs and stamp their feet when they run up against the fact that it's someone else doing all the writing and making all the money. You can tell him he's wrong or look down your nose all you want, but he still makes bread off this. And actually, all your pussing-about is making him more money out of ad revenue.
39
To be fair, Dan, I only told you your call was premature. If another count validated the current trend, I would agree at that point he should concede.
He just went ahead and did it, though. I guess he figures the next counts won't help him.
He just went ahead and did it, though. I guess he figures the next counts won't help him.
40
as heartfelt and gracious as the concession was, he didn't quite stick the landing.
what he should have said:
"You won't have the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man to kick around anymore! Mayor Mc Cheese has left the building, you ungrateful bitchez!!"
what he should have said:
"You won't have the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man to kick around anymore! Mayor Mc Cheese has left the building, you ungrateful bitchez!!"
41
#38, I agree he can write stupid shit to "his" blog all he wants. That was never under contention.
For someone who doesn't care what we think and would write whatever he wants either way, this sure was a curious post.
For someone who doesn't care what we think and would write whatever he wants either way, this sure was a curious post.
43
The point seems to be that Dan wanted to point out that obviously his opinion was correct (and more politically savvy than the commenters who disagreed), because Nickels and/or his advisers agreed with him. In other words... the point was, he wanted to gloat.
Anyways, obviously Dan can say whatever he wants. But, as long as comments are enabled, we can disagree with him. That's what's fun about blogs (and this blog in particular, at least for me) -- the conversation. Some people disagree by telling Dan he's an idiot (obviously less interesting to read), but some people actually just have a different way of looking at the issue. I happen to think that the additional information of yesterday's drop made a big difference in the logic of him conceding or not.
Anyways, obviously Dan can say whatever he wants. But, as long as comments are enabled, we can disagree with him. That's what's fun about blogs (and this blog in particular, at least for me) -- the conversation. Some people disagree by telling Dan he's an idiot (obviously less interesting to read), but some people actually just have a different way of looking at the issue. I happen to think that the additional information of yesterday's drop made a big difference in the logic of him conceding or not.
44
More to the point, this isn't about whether he is allowed to post his opinion, it's about whether his opinion has any credibility and whether he should be taken seriously when he gloats about the outcome that wasn't even what he called for.
I block all ads on Slog, by the way. Not that I'd ever click one. It's really unlikely they make money on views, anyway, this not being 1999 and all.
I don't even understand why you'd think I care that Dan makes money on this blog or why that's even related to this discussion (I hate to break it to you but providing salient political commentary on anything but gay issues is probably NOT one of the many ways Dan has made money is his lifetime). Perhaps you're projecting your own jealousy there. Personally, I'm more amused/puzzled at those that seem to think Dan is some kind of political genius because he gave them good advice on how to fist their boyfriend.
I block all ads on Slog, by the way. Not that I'd ever click one. It's really unlikely they make money on views, anyway, this not being 1999 and all.
I don't even understand why you'd think I care that Dan makes money on this blog or why that's even related to this discussion (I hate to break it to you but providing salient political commentary on anything but gay issues is probably NOT one of the many ways Dan has made money is his lifetime). Perhaps you're projecting your own jealousy there. Personally, I'm more amused/puzzled at those that seem to think Dan is some kind of political genius because he gave them good advice on how to fist their boyfriend.
45
We get it, you're butt hurt. But it doesn't change that he was right.
And most political minds would have called Nickels toast at the second drop on primary day. They'd also have told Nickels to hold off on conceding.
Oh wait, that's exactly what happened. Dan just happened to be a total snark about it and made an eventually-right assessment of the situation, something people downed him for. Then he gloated at all the people who were wringing their hands over his observation. The only people who were right happened to also be Will (mostly) and Gomez (kinda). Feel great to be behind their curve?
And most political minds would have called Nickels toast at the second drop on primary day. They'd also have told Nickels to hold off on conceding.
Oh wait, that's exactly what happened. Dan just happened to be a total snark about it and made an eventually-right assessment of the situation, something people downed him for. Then he gloated at all the people who were wringing their hands over his observation. The only people who were right happened to also be Will (mostly) and Gomez (kinda). Feel great to be behind their curve?
47
Like I said yesterday, Dan. It ain't over. Nickels did the right thing by conceding today, but that doesn't mean the people who voted for him will now switch to McGinn or Mallahan. I intend to write Nickels in this fall, and I urge everyone who can't stomach the results of the primary to do the same.
48
[chants]
Ba-con-Cat!
Ba-con-Cat!
Ba-con-Cat!
And if being smug is a sin I'll see Dan in Hell; it's just an unavoidable side effect of rawking hard like us.
Ba-con-Cat!
Ba-con-Cat!
Ba-con-Cat!
And if being smug is a sin I'll see Dan in Hell; it's just an unavoidable side effect of rawking hard like us.
50
@34 for the win.
But in terms of media news cycles, conceding on a Friday early enough allows the daily papers to print wonderful things about him in their Sunday editions and gives the media in other markets a chance to say good things about him - which means it's a topic of conversation at weekend parties in DC and NY and people might generate job offers.
Which, while you might not think it is, is the classy way to go.
But in terms of media news cycles, conceding on a Friday early enough allows the daily papers to print wonderful things about him in their Sunday editions and gives the media in other markets a chance to say good things about him - which means it's a topic of conversation at weekend parties in DC and NY and people might generate job offers.
Which, while you might not think it is, is the classy way to go.
52
Baconcat -- "most political minds would have called Nickels toast at the second drop on primary day." Really? Just looking at the numbers, Mallahan gained a full percentage point from the last election day drop to the next day. Nickels was only 0.7% behind #2 at the last election day drop. So, it's not possible that Nickels could also have gained a full point?
Anyways, that whole thing is pretty much moot, because Dan wasn't arguing that Nickels didn't have a chance of making it. He was saying that even if Nickels makes it, he should concede anyways, because an incumbent mayor with only 25-26% of the vote means that 75% of people think you're doing a bad job. So he should bow out because he won't win the general anyways, and, because of that he should step aside to give people a real choice. But, I think that's completely flawed logic. Let's say the final match-up was Mallahan vs. Nickels -- Stranger folks have already said that Mallahan was a total idiot. So, who do you think they would vote for? For all the reasons that (I think) in-frequent pointed out in the original post, Nickels would have better odds in the general than the primary. So, it made sense for him to stay in until he was sure he would lose.
Anyways, that whole thing is pretty much moot, because Dan wasn't arguing that Nickels didn't have a chance of making it. He was saying that even if Nickels makes it, he should concede anyways, because an incumbent mayor with only 25-26% of the vote means that 75% of people think you're doing a bad job. So he should bow out because he won't win the general anyways, and, because of that he should step aside to give people a real choice. But, I think that's completely flawed logic. Let's say the final match-up was Mallahan vs. Nickels -- Stranger folks have already said that Mallahan was a total idiot. So, who do you think they would vote for? For all the reasons that (I think) in-frequent pointed out in the original post, Nickels would have better odds in the general than the primary. So, it made sense for him to stay in until he was sure he would lose.
53
@ 45, when he wasn't right. He made a lucky guess, if anything. There's a major difference.
@ 41 FTW.
@ 41 FTW.
54
@ 38 - All the blogs I have read involve commenters freely expressing their opinions. Some commenters even disagree with the post. They must be doing it wrong. Maybe you could let them know?
56
Dan was wrong.
He insisted that the ONLY way Nickels could "get points for gracefully accepting defeat" was to "concede now, while the votes are still being counted".
That was wrong, and a little creepy to boot.
More bizarre, Dan was urging Nickels to concede, not because his defeat was inevitable but even if he had a chance to win a spot in the general election-
"The only outstanding question—whether you make it through to the general election or not—is which Someone Else is going to be our next mayor. If you do manage to make it through to the general election, Seattle voters won't really have a choice."
Dan was urging Nickels to bow out even if he won a slot in the general election. So Seattle could choose between two inexperienced unknown quantities. Both of whom had just been rejected by 75% of the voters.
Bizarre.
When Dan ventures into political commentary he always gets it wrong.
Always.
He should stick to being Mr 'Hip and Cool sex advisor to the credulous'.
And leave politics to adults.
He insisted that the ONLY way Nickels could "get points for gracefully accepting defeat" was to "concede now, while the votes are still being counted".
That was wrong, and a little creepy to boot.
More bizarre, Dan was urging Nickels to concede, not because his defeat was inevitable but even if he had a chance to win a spot in the general election-
"The only outstanding question—whether you make it through to the general election or not—is which Someone Else is going to be our next mayor. If you do manage to make it through to the general election, Seattle voters won't really have a choice."
Dan was urging Nickels to bow out even if he won a slot in the general election. So Seattle could choose between two inexperienced unknown quantities. Both of whom had just been rejected by 75% of the voters.
Bizarre.
When Dan ventures into political commentary he always gets it wrong.
Always.
He should stick to being Mr 'Hip and Cool sex advisor to the credulous'.
And leave politics to adults.
57
As you note, Dan, it was Nickel's graciousness in defeat that generated good will.
Not the fact that he conceded before the votes were counted.
Which is what you demanded.
You are an idiot who should shut up because you don't know what you are talking about.
Not the fact that he conceded before the votes were counted.
Which is what you demanded.
You are an idiot who should shut up because you don't know what you are talking about.
58
@ 57: really poor taste. I guess you guys haven't yet figured out that when you're totally disrespectful, it doesn't lend credibility to your opinion. It does the opposite.
And by "you guys" I mean "the internet".
And by "you guys" I mean "the internet".
59
58
Hey Heatherfry-
you just coined the Official Motto and Standard Operating Procedure of SLOG:
"When you're totally disrespectful, it doesn't lend credibility to your opinion. It does the opposite."
You should make Dan pay you royalties.
Hey Heatherfry-
you just coined the Official Motto and Standard Operating Procedure of SLOG:
"When you're totally disrespectful, it doesn't lend credibility to your opinion. It does the opposite."
You should make Dan pay you royalties.
60
Even a broken clock is right twice a day. You're still an idiot who wears shirts a size or two too small to look like he's built. All that weight lifting and it just didn't take. Bummer.
61
@7
Don't be ridiculous. Who cares about being right if nobody knows it? The whole -- and by "whole", I mean ENTIRE FUCKING FER REAL -- joy of modern technology is that everything we ever said is in writing on a server somewhere, so we can not only gloat over being right, but provide fucking LINKS. Christ! It's so awesome it makes me need to pee.
Don't be ridiculous. Who cares about being right if nobody knows it? The whole -- and by "whole", I mean ENTIRE FUCKING FER REAL -- joy of modern technology is that everything we ever said is in writing on a server somewhere, so we can not only gloat over being right, but provide fucking LINKS. Christ! It's so awesome it makes me need to pee.
63
@7, no way! Go the gloat I say! Opportunities for a good gloat come along so seldom. It's incumbent on us to seize every opportunity with both hands. If I was Dan I'd paint myself purple and dance naked on a table singing "I was right about the Mayor" and then post it on Slog.
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