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News & ArtsFriday, August 21, 2009
City Laurelhurst Community Club
Posted by Dominic Holden on Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 1:22 PM
Remember the Laurelhurst Community Club (LCC), the small handful of neighbors trying to block the expansion of Children's Hospital? They're making progress. Last week, their lawyers convinced a city hearing examiner to recommend that the city council oppose the expansion. But a couple hundred people—hospital staff, ill children, and neighbors disgusted by an organization that's using the neighborhood's name to crusade against a hospital for sick kids—rallied in favor of allowing Children's Hospital to expand at City Hall on Wednesday afternoon. This sign says it all:
Good job, kid.
3
If Seattle's Children's Hospital is anywhere near as mercenary as Denver's, then you guys ought to listen to the LLC. Denver's Children's Hospital played the same kind of game with the city in order to expand their campus, having the city reroute a busy (though not major) street to the tune of millions of dollars, only to abandon the place once bigger digs presented themselves in nearby Aurora (Denver's biggest suburb).
Not saying that's what's going on here, but don't be a sucker for the "think of the children" card.
Not saying that's what's going on here, but don't be a sucker for the "think of the children" card.
4
I love the way the Stranger plays this as a David vs. Goliath situation, with poor-widdle-Children's as David and LCC as the Goliath. Have you seen what the doctors and administrators at Children's make?
7
Issaquah is more than willing and ready to work with them! They can build a huge campus right next to the huge medical center being built on top of the plateau. The combined medical campus could be a huge hub for the future medical needs of the county.
Get rid of the hospital cabal in downtown Seattle. The doctors don't enjoy commuting down there, they especially don't like commuting into that transportation trap tucked back down behind the college... patients don't have to deal with paying to park in urban areas with parking monopolies, and it is MUCH easier to access the hospitals located right off the interstates!
Win! Win! Win!
Enough wasting time on this tired over-reported story...
Get rid of the hospital cabal in downtown Seattle. The doctors don't enjoy commuting down there, they especially don't like commuting into that transportation trap tucked back down behind the college... patients don't have to deal with paying to park in urban areas with parking monopolies, and it is MUCH easier to access the hospitals located right off the interstates!
Win! Win! Win!
Enough wasting time on this tired over-reported story...
9
oh come on now! you have no idea of the additional traffic that LAurel hurst will have to put up with. That 45th NE is a nice quiet street, and it's often very difficult to get from the hair salon to the gourmet pizza place, then run over to the kid's piano teacher, then get home in time to prepare a nice dinner. I'm talking about our nannies here, you have no idea of what they put up with driving around for us!
11
Cute kid and a great sign too, but I would have liked this protest better if it were on the sidewalk outside Jeannie Hale's house.
12
@7
Wow. I imagine you hear this all the time, but you're an idiot.
Why the fuck would you take hospitals out of the most densely populated part of the state and move them to the middle of fucking nowhere so you could get there on the interstate? Especially since the hospitals in question are actually straddling the interstate right now. Harborview literally overlooks the freeway.
And Issaquah? Seriously? Pop quiz, idiot -- how many more patients do you think would die if you had to transport trauma cases to the Issaquah from the city than die now being transported from Issaquah to the city? Anwer: LOTS.
Wow. I imagine you hear this all the time, but you're an idiot.
Why the fuck would you take hospitals out of the most densely populated part of the state and move them to the middle of fucking nowhere so you could get there on the interstate? Especially since the hospitals in question are actually straddling the interstate right now. Harborview literally overlooks the freeway.
And Issaquah? Seriously? Pop quiz, idiot -- how many more patients do you think would die if you had to transport trauma cases to the Issaquah from the city than die now being transported from Issaquah to the city? Anwer: LOTS.
13
It's common for people to wrap their opinions in the flag, but this is the first time I've seen folks wrap their opinions in the corpses of dead babies from the future.
14
G'duh. No, it's not the first time I've seen it. I just flashed on the lovely movie Citizen Ruth and it hit me - wrapping an argument in imaginary future baby corpses is a "pro-life" commonplace.
16
@12: The maximum FAR on the plateau would require the Children's Hospital alone to be spread out over several square miles, excluding parking and other infrastructure upgrades.
That'll happen.
That'll happen.
19
Judah @12 you are such a fucking moron yourself.
I am referring to moving Children's hospital out to the location of the new Swedish Hospital multiplex being built out in Issaquah Highlands. Seattle can have fucking Harborview for all I care... they can continue dealing with the unwashed masses of the inner city, the gang warfare contestants that seem to be competing for best use of a gun, and the druggies/diseased that arrive from Cap Hill.
Rather I'm talking about moving Children's out to the Plateau where they'll be greeted with open arms and have lots of room to grow with no LCC to contend with.
So idiot... following along yet? No? Didn't think so...
Continuing.. since the projections show that I-5 thru Seattle will become a transportation shitshow within 10 years, being in close proximity to I-5 in that crowded corridor won't matter much.
Yes Issaquah moron. Trauma cases wouldn't matter in my scenario. Seattle would still have Harborview, that place isn't going anywhere, and I never was suggesting that, so get off your high and mighty horse. Besides that, if they truly are a trauma case, and are coming in from somewhere other than the urban core, they are likely being transported in by helicopter, and that is a 2 minute deviation of course to arrive via air. Nice try numb nuts.
This would also apply to Children's Hospital rocket scientist. A majority of cases brought in to Children's are NOT trauma, and access to the new hospital is MILES easier than trying to navigate the urban mess that is Pill Hill.
Additionally, that area of King County will grow much faster in the coming years with families that fit the current patient demographic, as compared to the built out area where they currently are. Moving the facility to the up and coming area makes perfect sense on many levels.
Try thinking a bit before replying...
mmmk?
More...
I am referring to moving Children's hospital out to the location of the new Swedish Hospital multiplex being built out in Issaquah Highlands. Seattle can have fucking Harborview for all I care... they can continue dealing with the unwashed masses of the inner city, the gang warfare contestants that seem to be competing for best use of a gun, and the druggies/diseased that arrive from Cap Hill.
Rather I'm talking about moving Children's out to the Plateau where they'll be greeted with open arms and have lots of room to grow with no LCC to contend with.
So idiot... following along yet? No? Didn't think so...
Continuing.. since the projections show that I-5 thru Seattle will become a transportation shitshow within 10 years, being in close proximity to I-5 in that crowded corridor won't matter much.
Yes Issaquah moron. Trauma cases wouldn't matter in my scenario. Seattle would still have Harborview, that place isn't going anywhere, and I never was suggesting that, so get off your high and mighty horse. Besides that, if they truly are a trauma case, and are coming in from somewhere other than the urban core, they are likely being transported in by helicopter, and that is a 2 minute deviation of course to arrive via air. Nice try numb nuts.
This would also apply to Children's Hospital rocket scientist. A majority of cases brought in to Children's are NOT trauma, and access to the new hospital is MILES easier than trying to navigate the urban mess that is Pill Hill.
Additionally, that area of King County will grow much faster in the coming years with families that fit the current patient demographic, as compared to the built out area where they currently are. Moving the facility to the up and coming area makes perfect sense on many levels.
Try thinking a bit before replying...
mmmk?
21
@19: Children's has more employees, makes massive use of the UW and Hutch, requires more space than the plateau can provide and has worked pretty well with the neighborhood for decades.
Overlake has also effectively blocked any further hospital growth on the plateau.
Issaquah is a no-go.
Overlake has also effectively blocked any further hospital growth on the plateau.
Issaquah is a no-go.
22
Good God, you're a moron, Reality Check. Harborview is the Level 1 emergency trauma center for FOUR STATES. Not just gang-bangers. Those medivac helicopters coming in from all over, sometimes a thousand miles away? They're going to Harborview, shithead. If you get your head stuck in Sarah Palin's ass or something, they'll be taking YOU there. Here's hoping they get there too late.
23
@22 Fuck you Fnarf. Seriously. Did you even read what I wrote @19? I never said Harborview was or should go anywhere! Jesus Fuck. I know exactly what type of trauma center they are, and how many states they cover.
I'm completely referring only to Children's, and the use of a helicopter to occasionally transport a child in to the facility. Go bitch at Judah for confusing my explanation with his own slant.
@21 I was referring to the vast amount of open space directly adjacent to the new Swedish Center being built. If they were serious about moving out there, it wouldn't require much arm twisting of Issaquah City Council to make it happen, once they factored in the profit and benefits to the area.
My understanding is that Overlake was shot down trying to restrict that growth, and that it is proceeding as expected,, however I haven't paid any attention to proceedings since the spring.
I'm completely referring only to Children's, and the use of a helicopter to occasionally transport a child in to the facility. Go bitch at Judah for confusing my explanation with his own slant.
@21 I was referring to the vast amount of open space directly adjacent to the new Swedish Center being built. If they were serious about moving out there, it wouldn't require much arm twisting of Issaquah City Council to make it happen, once they factored in the profit and benefits to the area.
My understanding is that Overlake was shot down trying to restrict that growth, and that it is proceeding as expected,, however I haven't paid any attention to proceedings since the spring.
24
@22: The only one who brought up Harborview was Judah at 12, who then went on to tell the guy how dumb he was for making an argument he never made.
Now that's a moron.
Now that's a moron.
25
@24 found @7: Get rid of the hospital cabal in downtown Seattle. either reality check doesn't know where children's is, or someone might think he was referring to a hospital -- such as harborview -- that is actually downtown.
26
C'mon, Laurelhurst supporters of Childrens -- it's time come out and identify yourselves. Don't be intimidated by the LCC. Your community is getting a bad name
Childrens has been there since 1953, long before most current residents moved in. If they didn't want to live in a hospital neighborhood, they could've bought somewhere else.
Childrens has been there since 1953, long before most current residents moved in. If they didn't want to live in a hospital neighborhood, they could've bought somewhere else.
27
@23: You haven't read a single planning document if you think the Issaquah City Council would immediately jump at this. They're already in a budget crunch over trying to accommodate all the growth they already have. Moreover, they've already exceeded their current growth plan and are working to slow it down. The only reason they're getting a medical campus is that they are underserved, not because they want to build a medical center.
And you haven't got a bit of understanding if you think that this is a resolved issue. Overlake's primary concession was that Swedish would only house around 600 employees, would only take specialties not covered under Overlake's primary service listing and the county and cities would not allow any top tier program to expand. Overlake tower currently houses Children's' Bellevue offices, and they are certainly not going to allow them to even consider a plan, especially since they're only in the Overlake tower because they already have their primary campus in Seattle.
And you haven't got a bit of understanding if you think that this is a resolved issue. Overlake's primary concession was that Swedish would only house around 600 employees, would only take specialties not covered under Overlake's primary service listing and the county and cities would not allow any top tier program to expand. Overlake tower currently houses Children's' Bellevue offices, and they are certainly not going to allow them to even consider a plan, especially since they're only in the Overlake tower because they already have their primary campus in Seattle.
28
@25 by hospital cabal, I meant by the current existing glut of hospitals concentrated in a highly built out small confined area. I know exactly where Children's is... I was referring to removing Children's out of the U district neighborhood where it currently exists, and moving out to a new(ly) developed area of King County that is adjacent to an interstate, has open land, and a willing government to accomodate their needs.
Your logic falls flat on its merits if you were to read my very next sentence where I said " they especially don't like commuting into that transportation trap tucked back down behind the college"
Nice try at covering the ass of Judah/Fnarf
Your logic falls flat on its merits if you were to read my very next sentence where I said " they especially don't like commuting into that transportation trap tucked back down behind the college"
Nice try at covering the ass of Judah/Fnarf
29
furthermore, @19 improperly characterizes harborview, which was what fnarf was referring to. nowhere in the post @22 is anything but the description of harborview from 19 challenged.
is slog that tricky?
is slog that tricky?
30
Putting Children's on the fucking plateau?! Even if Overlake hadn't blocked additional hospital development, talk about a nightmare. At least there is existing infrastructure to get people to Children's where it is now--access to the plateau is limited by design.
Plus, anyone who has had to deal with them will tell you that plateau residents will be no more accepting of helipads and traffic increases and emergency noises than Jeannie Hale and her ilk.
Plus, anyone who has had to deal with them will tell you that plateau residents will be no more accepting of helipads and traffic increases and emergency noises than Jeannie Hale and her ilk.
31
@28 whatevs. sure you meant that. fine. but you said downtown. so you shouldn't be surprised that someone thought you might also be referring to harborview. and fnarf still was merely addressing your ignorant view of harborview. not that either fnarf or judah need me to say anything, i just wanted to reinforce the idea that they are not alone in realizing how off-base your are in this particular thread. it's really for your benefit as much as theirs...
32
@27 Thank you for that explanation.
It would seem ironic that in this day and time of wanting competition and lower costs for medical care, that Overlake could exert that kind of influence to the detriment of health care choices for citizens. I'd prefer to have a hospital ontop of the Plateau, vs once again needing to travel in to that mess on I 405/Bellevue traffic nightmare and pay to park scenarios that is slowly creeping in to Bellevue.
It would seem ironic that in this day and time of wanting competition and lower costs for medical care, that Overlake could exert that kind of influence to the detriment of health care choices for citizens. I'd prefer to have a hospital ontop of the Plateau, vs once again needing to travel in to that mess on I 405/Bellevue traffic nightmare and pay to park scenarios that is slowly creeping in to Bellevue.
33
@32, if you have a sick kid and live on the plateau, there are plenty of ways to get to Overlake without taking 405. My sister takes her sick kid over there by taking 148th. Overlake will also validate your parking, so I don't know what you're complaining about there.
34
@30 Have you even been on the new Interestate off ramp up onto the plateau? High speed access off the interstate, to a 6?lane road to the top of the plateau intersection where the future hospital/open area is now sitting? Lack of infrastructure? Yeah right... considering there is all new infrastructure up there, including a huge park and ride transit hub, a direct ramp off the interstate, and the option to add another offramp 1 mile east of the newest ramp...
Yeah limited design... I hear ya.
And those "plateau residents" you casually refer to? They are further into the valley, and not near this new(est) development. The new development is being built transit friendly, is designed for density, and as a future commercial area to serve the Plateau into the future. When is the last time you were up there? For those living and working in that area, a hospital and a 2nd Children's hospital would be welcomed with open arms. It is a serious bitch of an inconvenience to get all the way back around to downtown Bellevue. Overlake can bitch and moan all they want, but they are not close or convenient for anyone east of Eastgate, and anyone living in Issaquah, SammamishFall City, Duvall, rural Renton, Carnation and North Bend can tell you, they aren't served by those facilities at all. Lake Sammamish and the local roads/traffic make that trip a 45 min to 1 hour adventure.
Yeah limited design... I hear ya.
And those "plateau residents" you casually refer to? They are further into the valley, and not near this new(est) development. The new development is being built transit friendly, is designed for density, and as a future commercial area to serve the Plateau into the future. When is the last time you were up there? For those living and working in that area, a hospital and a 2nd Children's hospital would be welcomed with open arms. It is a serious bitch of an inconvenience to get all the way back around to downtown Bellevue. Overlake can bitch and moan all they want, but they are not close or convenient for anyone east of Eastgate, and anyone living in Issaquah, SammamishFall City, Duvall, rural Renton, Carnation and North Bend can tell you, they aren't served by those facilities at all. Lake Sammamish and the local roads/traffic make that trip a 45 min to 1 hour adventure.
36
@34: Swedish, even with growth limitations, is well-suited to serve the needs of the Eastside for at least this current comprehensive period. And with Children's already in Bellevue and Federal Way, there's really no pressing need for a specialty care center on the plateau. The traffic, even with the new ramps, is already growing far beyond capacity and their measured growth approach. Traffic demand in the Sunset Interchange area has outstripped projected growth, even.
Besides, through land-use planning they've already pretty much carved the highlands (and the adjacent Sammamish plateau) up for residential uses.
Besides, through land-use planning they've already pretty much carved the highlands (and the adjacent Sammamish plateau) up for residential uses.
37
Remember, rich people think children should be neither seen nor heard.
If they could, they'd ship em to Newcastle on coal trains, and make their moms and dads get out and push the trains up hill.
If they could, they'd ship em to Newcastle on coal trains, and make their moms and dads get out and push the trains up hill.
38
Uhh, I work in Issaquah, and have lived in Issaquah--fortunately I moved back to Seattle as fast as I could so I didn't have to deal with whiners like you. Waaaaaahhh I moved to the middle of fucking nowhere, and now instead of figuring out how to deal with my own choices, I expect facilities from the city to MOVE here, so we don't have to deal with traffic!! Screw all the people who planned ahead or adjusted their living situation in order to care for their sick kids!
So, yeah. I've seen the new ramp and the park and ride (which is designed for commuters into the city, btw). If the new I-90 ramp is so great, it should facilitate you getting you down to Bellevue even better than it should facilitate people headed to your direction.
It's also bullshit that the eastsiders are not served by Overlake. And if it's too hard for you to get to Overlake, go to the existing Swedish facilities in Issaquah.
If you want an auxiliary Children's hospital up there, I can understand that. But uprooting the giant complex from the city makes absolutely no sense.
So, yeah. I've seen the new ramp and the park and ride (which is designed for commuters into the city, btw). If the new I-90 ramp is so great, it should facilitate you getting you down to Bellevue even better than it should facilitate people headed to your direction.
It's also bullshit that the eastsiders are not served by Overlake. And if it's too hard for you to get to Overlake, go to the existing Swedish facilities in Issaquah.
If you want an auxiliary Children's hospital up there, I can understand that. But uprooting the giant complex from the city makes absolutely no sense.
40
@35, technically yes, however many of those living in May Valley over to Hobart don't consider themselves served by Renton... they go into Issaquah for all their living needs, as the Renton corridor has become a total urban shit show, and those living in Unincorporated King county (rural Renton), consider Issaquah to be much more "small town" in nature, without all the riff raff lowlifes that inhabit Rrrrentton.
41
So RC - do you think it undermines your point at all to preface your arguments with directions and descriptions about what you're talking about?
Sorta like how you're not having this conversation on the blog of your local paper because, well, it sucks, or doesn't exist, or whatever because you live in the fucking sticks and a freeway offramp isn't going to change that?
It's fine to flee all the, let's see here, "riff raff lowlifes", "total urban shit show", "the unwashed masses of the inner city".
For whatever reason, you don't want to deal with the issues that arise from creating the urban densities required to support things like world-class hospitals. So you move out to someplace that's a bitch to get to from anywhere else.
Great - I'm sure you feel safe. I'm sure you'd welcome any two-plus-story enterprise that would set up shop there. Enjoy waiting for that urbal sprawl to catch up to you. Oh wait - you don't like "urban" do you. Oh well.
Sorta like how you're not having this conversation on the blog of your local paper because, well, it sucks, or doesn't exist, or whatever because you live in the fucking sticks and a freeway offramp isn't going to change that?
It's fine to flee all the, let's see here, "riff raff lowlifes", "total urban shit show", "the unwashed masses of the inner city".
For whatever reason, you don't want to deal with the issues that arise from creating the urban densities required to support things like world-class hospitals. So you move out to someplace that's a bitch to get to from anywhere else.
Great - I'm sure you feel safe. I'm sure you'd welcome any two-plus-story enterprise that would set up shop there. Enjoy waiting for that urbal sprawl to catch up to you. Oh wait - you don't like "urban" do you. Oh well.
42
No disagreement from me Baconcat @36. Thank you for the respectful and insightful input. It was just an idea to move their core campus out of Laurelhurst as a long term solution. Given that the proposed new Swedish Campus has adjacent open land around it, and that ... if done correctly now before other development moves in... that it could accommodate changing some of the zoning/planning for a huge win for the local area. Even if it is considered over capacity as far as residential living, having that kind of anchor facility in that location would justify making an exception.
@38 I'm not sure where you got that impression. That is not my philosophy whatsoever. I prefer living in the suburbs, and don't care for urban Seattle when it comes to overly expensive high density life, in the areas that I could afford. I don't expect the facilities to MOVE to me, rather I would just like to see that area of Issaquah utilized in the best way. I simply noted that for folks located on that side of Lake Sammamish and eastward, there are few choices, yet it is a growing area with a very affluent population... therefore it is only a matter of a decade before it is a thriving area in need of its own facility independent of what Bellevue has.
I understand your points though Lily. However if Children's really does need a new headquarters, they could propose to purchase the office complexes right next to where the current Swedish ER is in Issaquah, and making the Seattle facility a "satellite" facility for overflow. There is no reason that the primary hospital has to be located in Seattle, especially if their current neighbors can't/don't/won't support their expansion plans.
@38 I'm not sure where you got that impression. That is not my philosophy whatsoever. I prefer living in the suburbs, and don't care for urban Seattle when it comes to overly expensive high density life, in the areas that I could afford. I don't expect the facilities to MOVE to me, rather I would just like to see that area of Issaquah utilized in the best way. I simply noted that for folks located on that side of Lake Sammamish and eastward, there are few choices, yet it is a growing area with a very affluent population... therefore it is only a matter of a decade before it is a thriving area in need of its own facility independent of what Bellevue has.
I understand your points though Lily. However if Children's really does need a new headquarters, they could propose to purchase the office complexes right next to where the current Swedish ER is in Issaquah, and making the Seattle facility a "satellite" facility for overflow. There is no reason that the primary hospital has to be located in Seattle, especially if their current neighbors can't/don't/won't support their expansion plans.
43
Or you could be proactive about it - you know, that whole "bootstraps" thing conservatives are always going on about.
Ask really nicely and maybe Doctors without Borders will come out, set up a field hospital and work on your kids teeth. Be sure to double-check that they won't send out anyone you wouldn't approve of - they do tend to get a little "international" (if you know what I mean).
Ask really nicely and maybe Doctors without Borders will come out, set up a field hospital and work on your kids teeth. Be sure to double-check that they won't send out anyone you wouldn't approve of - they do tend to get a little "international" (if you know what I mean).
44
If it's more convenient for everyone that Children's relocate, RC, why don't they just do that? I mean, I think everyone pretty much agrees that this is an excellent organization run by people who have both hearts and brains. Your point seems to be little more than "Issaquah has some open plats near the freeway: buy them."
In any event: given a choice between the convenience of Children's Hospital and Laurelhurst residents, I choose the former.
In any event: given a choice between the convenience of Children's Hospital and Laurelhurst residents, I choose the former.
45
The same folks getting all
'panties in a wad'
and indignant for
The Hospital That Saves Children!
are also totally hip
with doctors slaughtering
800,000 babies a year.
It's what we call 'irony'.
'panties in a wad'
and indignant for
The Hospital That Saves Children!
are also totally hip
with doctors slaughtering
800,000 babies a year.
It's what we call 'irony'.
46
"reality check"
If you for even one minute understood how what Childrens provides is Fundamentally different than what other hospitals provide in pediatrics, then you would never (ever) recommend something as asinine as a "satellite" instead of a central campus expansion. Until you understand the different needs (as a consequence of different strategies) - probably best for you to sit-out this thread.....
If you for even one minute understood how what Childrens provides is Fundamentally different than what other hospitals provide in pediatrics, then you would never (ever) recommend something as asinine as a "satellite" instead of a central campus expansion. Until you understand the different needs (as a consequence of different strategies) - probably best for you to sit-out this thread.....
47
Folks - LCC and a group of neighbors AREN'T trying to block the expansion. Do your homework! But I suppose it's more titillating to report it your way. There is not one document on file with King County that verifies this. Look at their Appeal they filed - it says nothing of the sort.
LCC is FOR the expansion but a reasonable one - as dictated by city mandated codes and policies. The hospital must follow all the same codes as every other building in our city. They are not an exception.
This is not an emotional issue, it's a land-use issue. Using "sick children" as a scapegoat is just not right. It's sick actually.
Get involved in a more productive way - read the Master Plan on the hospital website, read the Hearing Examiner's report, read the CAC minutes.
LCC didn't make the latest decision, they don't the authority to stop this expansion. They are just one voice just like you all are.
And really Laurelhurst is not going to be affected so much by this expansion, it's Bryant who will look at this monstrosity of concrete from across the road and all the commuters who drive through the Sandpoint corridor.
And people - if this was happening in your neighborhood I can more than guarantee you you would think twice about such a huge huge expansion in a single family residential neighborhood where approved heights are 30' and the hospital wants 160'! If this gets approved this could happen in your neighborhood, no joke.
Let's be reasonable about this. Read the documents, then post. Get educated. Posting about sick children and personal bashing are a cop-out and look really lame.
LCC is FOR the expansion but a reasonable one - as dictated by city mandated codes and policies. The hospital must follow all the same codes as every other building in our city. They are not an exception.
This is not an emotional issue, it's a land-use issue. Using "sick children" as a scapegoat is just not right. It's sick actually.
Get involved in a more productive way - read the Master Plan on the hospital website, read the Hearing Examiner's report, read the CAC minutes.
LCC didn't make the latest decision, they don't the authority to stop this expansion. They are just one voice just like you all are.
And really Laurelhurst is not going to be affected so much by this expansion, it's Bryant who will look at this monstrosity of concrete from across the road and all the commuters who drive through the Sandpoint corridor.
And people - if this was happening in your neighborhood I can more than guarantee you you would think twice about such a huge huge expansion in a single family residential neighborhood where approved heights are 30' and the hospital wants 160'! If this gets approved this could happen in your neighborhood, no joke.
Let's be reasonable about this. Read the documents, then post. Get educated. Posting about sick children and personal bashing are a cop-out and look really lame.
48
So tell me "Zok"...
What is the big mystery you are alluding to when you say "Until you understand the different needs (as a consequence of different strategies) "
What is this awesome incredible revelation that you vaguely refer to as causing an epiphany of knowledge once your secret is revealed?
Hmm? Why is it so important to have the headquarters where it is currently located? Why can't those very same services be provided at a different location like Issaquah? Personally I think you are full of semantic shit. There really isn't any reason that the current headquaters could be a satellite. It's location screams "satellite" given that it is in a residential neighborhood.
@44 Lee it is coming to that. Considering that they expansion is being denied, this may be the precursor to a big move out.
@47 is absolultely correct in his assessment. This is a land use issue, and the proposed change is MONSTEROUSLY HUGE! It will swamp that area with quadruple the traffic, and force a HUGE bottleneck in traffic down into that area that only has one way in/out.
It is a nightmare in the making.
And it sets a very bad precedent for the future.
What is the big mystery you are alluding to when you say "Until you understand the different needs (as a consequence of different strategies) "
What is this awesome incredible revelation that you vaguely refer to as causing an epiphany of knowledge once your secret is revealed?
Hmm? Why is it so important to have the headquarters where it is currently located? Why can't those very same services be provided at a different location like Issaquah? Personally I think you are full of semantic shit. There really isn't any reason that the current headquaters could be a satellite. It's location screams "satellite" given that it is in a residential neighborhood.
@44 Lee it is coming to that. Considering that they expansion is being denied, this may be the precursor to a big move out.
@47 is absolultely correct in his assessment. This is a land use issue, and the proposed change is MONSTEROUSLY HUGE! It will swamp that area with quadruple the traffic, and force a HUGE bottleneck in traffic down into that area that only has one way in/out.
It is a nightmare in the making.
And it sets a very bad precedent for the future.
49
@47 This IS about sick children you insensitive ass. Thank goodness the LCC is just one voice and does not make the decisions. I have used Children's several times when my own kid has been sick and the capacity problems is more the evident. If this were to go up in my neighborhood I would welcome it with open arms.
This has to be about money and getting paid off. I agree with the kid, LCC can Suck It.
This has to be about money and getting paid off. I agree with the kid, LCC can Suck It.
50
Reality Check,
Seriously: How is it possible that you're that fucking stupid? (Don't bother to answer.)
Anybody who is even halfway paying attention to healthcare, and understanding economics 101 (principles of supply & demand), can see the issues.
WHY SERVICES NEED TO BE CONCENTRATED:
The nationwide shortage of sub-specialty pediatricians means that their resources should be concentrated in centers, (covering each other's call at one facility, consulting on cases)
The interdisciplinary requirements of high-acuity care (technicians, cardiologists, oncologists, nutritionists, social workers, rehab therapists, etc) means that they should all be concentrated in a center, working together.
The needless duplication of IT & hardware needed for kids (which drives healthcare costs up), means that they should all be concentrated in a center.
Having separate buildings for "kids" and "adults," means that you have inherent flexibility in its programming. This reduces building & re-modeling costs, which contribute to healthcare costs. This means the resources should be concentrated.
Developing experienced pediatric surgical teams comes from doing more procedures with the same core people -- which comes from concentration of patient-loads, not distribution.
Improved patient/family satisfaction – with design, amenities, resources specific to kids – means the services should be concentrated.
WHY SERVICES NEED TO BE CONCENTRATED IN SEATTLE:
To train future generations of pediatricians means the services should be concentrated near the places where those students study & work, (which generally means near the UW and Seattle U.)
The ability to attract & retain the world's best clinicians comes from locating yourself near & convenient to where they want to live, which generally means in a great city.
The ability to conduct research hand-in-hand with clinical care, means concentrating services, near universities (UW, SU), other hospitals (UW, Swedish, Harborview), and research centers (Hutch).
RealityChump: Your intellectual laziness has lead you to think that all hospitals are the same, and all Children's does is what Swedish and Overlake do, but they just do it for kids. Wrong. There's a vast difference between a local integrated care system and a super-regional or national referral, education and research center.
You can continue to be the community crank, bitching and sniping, but we're not nearly as impressed with your missives as you seem to be.
Give it a rest.
More...
Seriously: How is it possible that you're that fucking stupid? (Don't bother to answer.)
Anybody who is even halfway paying attention to healthcare, and understanding economics 101 (principles of supply & demand), can see the issues.
WHY SERVICES NEED TO BE CONCENTRATED:
The nationwide shortage of sub-specialty pediatricians means that their resources should be concentrated in centers, (covering each other's call at one facility, consulting on cases)
The interdisciplinary requirements of high-acuity care (technicians, cardiologists, oncologists, nutritionists, social workers, rehab therapists, etc) means that they should all be concentrated in a center, working together.
The needless duplication of IT & hardware needed for kids (which drives healthcare costs up), means that they should all be concentrated in a center.
Having separate buildings for "kids" and "adults," means that you have inherent flexibility in its programming. This reduces building & re-modeling costs, which contribute to healthcare costs. This means the resources should be concentrated.
Developing experienced pediatric surgical teams comes from doing more procedures with the same core people -- which comes from concentration of patient-loads, not distribution.
Improved patient/family satisfaction – with design, amenities, resources specific to kids – means the services should be concentrated.
WHY SERVICES NEED TO BE CONCENTRATED IN SEATTLE:
To train future generations of pediatricians means the services should be concentrated near the places where those students study & work, (which generally means near the UW and Seattle U.)
The ability to attract & retain the world's best clinicians comes from locating yourself near & convenient to where they want to live, which generally means in a great city.
The ability to conduct research hand-in-hand with clinical care, means concentrating services, near universities (UW, SU), other hospitals (UW, Swedish, Harborview), and research centers (Hutch).
RealityChump: Your intellectual laziness has lead you to think that all hospitals are the same, and all Children's does is what Swedish and Overlake do, but they just do it for kids. Wrong. There's a vast difference between a local integrated care system and a super-regional or national referral, education and research center.
You can continue to be the community crank, bitching and sniping, but we're not nearly as impressed with your missives as you seem to be.
Give it a rest.
51
Good one @12. These NMBY's have no clue about the grueling ordeals the parents of severely ill kids endure--often for YEARS. They need to STFU and let this hospital expand. Everyone else in Seattle is equally upset about the rampant growth all around us--why should fucking Laurelhurst be exempt?
52
Seriously Zok
Quit trying to sound edumuKated. Your lengthy reply has nothing to do with economic supply and demand, and the attempt at being extra verbose simply makes you look foolish.
It would appear that after being called on the carpet to explain yourself, you went to extreme lengths to type up a reply that while long on word count, is short on iron clad logic.
Considering how far away Children's is from Pill Hill and Hutch, your attempted explanation about keeping Children's within "commuting" distance compared to Issaquah(for example) is laughable. If you are talking ease of going between those location and Children's vs those locations and Issaquah, there is basically a 10 minute difference once you figure in traffic and distance. Additionally since they are both located within 20 minutes of each other, it does not present any extra burdensome logistics to travel that small extra distance. To imply that moving facilities further apart would destroy some precious feng shei is completely laughable.
Try not to overextend the limits of your oratorical abilities next time. Extra words, big words, and filibustering does nothing for your credibility either.
Quit trying to sound edumuKated. Your lengthy reply has nothing to do with economic supply and demand, and the attempt at being extra verbose simply makes you look foolish.
It would appear that after being called on the carpet to explain yourself, you went to extreme lengths to type up a reply that while long on word count, is short on iron clad logic.
Considering how far away Children's is from Pill Hill and Hutch, your attempted explanation about keeping Children's within "commuting" distance compared to Issaquah(for example) is laughable. If you are talking ease of going between those location and Children's vs those locations and Issaquah, there is basically a 10 minute difference once you figure in traffic and distance. Additionally since they are both located within 20 minutes of each other, it does not present any extra burdensome logistics to travel that small extra distance. To imply that moving facilities further apart would destroy some precious feng shei is completely laughable.
Try not to overextend the limits of your oratorical abilities next time. Extra words, big words, and filibustering does nothing for your credibility either.
53
Reality Check,
By any measure, you're getting your ass handed to you. But this is sporting, so let's continue to dismantle your myths: There's only a "10 minute difference" between the specialty medical hubs and Issaquah.
Now, most people with any practical experience would know that your assertion is a complete fucking joke, but let's use other reference sources most people can reasonably rely-upon: Google Maps & Mapquest
- From Hutch to UW is 2.7 miles; 7-8 minutes if clear, 15 minutes in normal traffic.
- From Hutch to Issaquah Highlands (Swedish) is 21.6 miles; 28 minutes if clear, 45-55 minutes in normal traffic.
So, for a family or staff commuting between these locations, the gap is 30-40 minutes each way, twice a day. You're proposing that scarce resources spend an extra hour to 1:20:00 per DAY - which is in effect tens of thousands of hours per year.
Now let's try observational research:
There is nothing (nothing) about the strategies of ANY other specialty medical services provider (not Providence, Swedish, Overlake, Virginia Mason, UW) that suggests comprehensive specialty care can be distributed geographically.
Quite the contrary: They are all consolidating their intensive, in-patient care programs on centralized urban campuses.
You don't appear remotely interested in having a reasonable conversation, so keep blathering. You obviously have some psycho-social deficiencies you feel you need to overcome by spouting bullshit on the Web, but those are your issues to deal with. Have at it you tool.
As far as this argument goes:
Game
Set
Match
Reality Check,
By any measure, you're getting your ass handed to you. But this is sporting, so let's continue to dismantle your myths: There's only a "10 minute difference" between the specialty medical hubs and Issaquah.
Now, most people with any practical experience would know that your assertion is a complete fucking joke, but let's use other reference sources most people can reasonably rely-upon: Google Maps & Mapquest
- From Hutch to UW is 2.7 miles; 7-8 minutes if clear, 15 minutes in normal traffic.
- From Hutch to Issaquah Highlands (Swedish) is 21.6 miles; 28 minutes if clear, 45-55 minutes in normal traffic.
So, for a family or staff commuting between these locations, the gap is 30-40 minutes each way, twice a day. You're proposing that scarce resources spend an extra hour to 1:20:00 per DAY - which is in effect tens of thousands of hours per year.
Now let's try observational research:
There is nothing (nothing) about the strategies of ANY other specialty medical services provider (not Providence, Swedish, Overlake, Virginia Mason, UW) that suggests comprehensive specialty care can be distributed geographically.
Quite the contrary: They are all consolidating their intensive, in-patient care programs on centralized urban campuses.
You don't appear remotely interested in having a reasonable conversation, so keep blathering. You obviously have some psycho-social deficiencies you feel you need to overcome by spouting bullshit on the Web, but those are your issues to deal with. Have at it you tool.
As far as this argument goes:
Game
Set
Match
54
Quote "I love the way the Stranger plays this as a David vs. Goliath situation, with poor-widdle-Children's as David and LCC as the Goliath. Have you seen what the doctors and administrators at Children's make?" - Verse
What difference does it make how much money the Doctors and Administrators at this hospital get paid? Does that make children better? They probably get paid good money becuase they have skills that are in demand. If you ask most of them they would do it for less money but guess what? This is the USA baby they can make as much money as they can negotiate.
Why does that bother some people?
What difference does it make how much money the Doctors and Administrators at this hospital get paid? Does that make children better? They probably get paid good money becuase they have skills that are in demand. If you ask most of them they would do it for less money but guess what? This is the USA baby they can make as much money as they can negotiate.
Why does that bother some people?
55
You're such a fucking moron Zok. Seriously.
I said the distance between Children's tucked back in the corner of Laurelhurst not UW. Who gives a flying fuck about UW. They aren't a part of this until you got your panties in a wad. AND I said the difference in extra time is around 10 minutes.... meaning.. (and I can type slower if you need me to for you), that if it takes takes 20 minutes in normal traffic to get from Hutch to Childrens, it only takes 30 minutes to get from Hutch to Issaquah Highlands. FACT. You probably don't drive enough to realize this, nor do you probably ever travel to Issaquah in normal traffic.
Nice try moron. Those "scarce resources" of a Dr's time, is a laughable joke. They have to spend that time either way in traffic and travelling between the two places.
Regarding your "observational analysis", that is precisely why I suggested they pick up their entire operation and relocate ALL of it to a place that has space for ALL their current and FUTURE growth needs. They are logistically trapped where they are now, and should have strategically made the decision 20 years ago to re-locate given that they had a likelihood of growing.
The person with the psycho-social deviant issues appears to be you. You are the one who came at me with the venom and anti social style to your posts. I merely responded in kind with similar tenor.
what's your saying? Game. Set. Match.
Yeah... someone definitely has ego issues...
I said the distance between Children's tucked back in the corner of Laurelhurst not UW. Who gives a flying fuck about UW. They aren't a part of this until you got your panties in a wad. AND I said the difference in extra time is around 10 minutes.... meaning.. (and I can type slower if you need me to for you), that if it takes takes 20 minutes in normal traffic to get from Hutch to Childrens, it only takes 30 minutes to get from Hutch to Issaquah Highlands. FACT. You probably don't drive enough to realize this, nor do you probably ever travel to Issaquah in normal traffic.
Nice try moron. Those "scarce resources" of a Dr's time, is a laughable joke. They have to spend that time either way in traffic and travelling between the two places.
Regarding your "observational analysis", that is precisely why I suggested they pick up their entire operation and relocate ALL of it to a place that has space for ALL their current and FUTURE growth needs. They are logistically trapped where they are now, and should have strategically made the decision 20 years ago to re-locate given that they had a likelihood of growing.
The person with the psycho-social deviant issues appears to be you. You are the one who came at me with the venom and anti social style to your posts. I merely responded in kind with similar tenor.
what's your saying? Game. Set. Match.
Yeah... someone definitely has ego issues...
56
RC,
I have an inherent disagreement with your original premise re: whether Issaquah is an appropriate location for an expanded Children's. The points I would make have mostly been made.
I am troubled by the racist and classicist underpinnings of your comments:
1) "they can continue dealing with the unwashed masses of the inner city" -- "inner city" is code for "where the poor brown people live." Why don't you just say what you mean?
(I could also raise concerns about your "druggie/diseased from Capitol Hill" description. I think it might have been a while since you've been to the city? Or you don't get around throughout the city? It's just such a dated reference.)
2) "there are few choices, yet it is a growing area with a very affluent population" -- when it comes to health care, why should affluence bring more choice?
It does seem that it is perfectly logical to concentrate services like the regional children's hospital or trauma center (I know you are not arguing to move Harborview) in the population center. Unfortunately, when folks move out of the "inner city" -- whether or not it is to get away from the "unwashed masses" -- it seems that they will have to accept and deal with coming into the population center for some services. Regardless of the choice their affluence should bring them.
I have an inherent disagreement with your original premise re: whether Issaquah is an appropriate location for an expanded Children's. The points I would make have mostly been made.
I am troubled by the racist and classicist underpinnings of your comments:
1) "they can continue dealing with the unwashed masses of the inner city" -- "inner city" is code for "where the poor brown people live." Why don't you just say what you mean?
(I could also raise concerns about your "druggie/diseased from Capitol Hill" description. I think it might have been a while since you've been to the city? Or you don't get around throughout the city? It's just such a dated reference.)
2) "there are few choices, yet it is a growing area with a very affluent population" -- when it comes to health care, why should affluence bring more choice?
It does seem that it is perfectly logical to concentrate services like the regional children's hospital or trauma center (I know you are not arguing to move Harborview) in the population center. Unfortunately, when folks move out of the "inner city" -- whether or not it is to get away from the "unwashed masses" -- it seems that they will have to accept and deal with coming into the population center for some services. Regardless of the choice their affluence should bring them.
57
The phenomenal irony of your name being "Reality Check" is just awesome.
I didn't "introduce" UW to this -- I assumed (wrongly) that you had a shred of intelligence to know that UW is already & absolutely part of this:
- Children's Hospital IS the medical school/residency program for UW's pediatrics program.
– The same way that Hutch/SCCA is the oncology program for Children's.
- And UW is the source of the graduate research assistants for Children's.
- And the nursing residency programs at UW & Seattle U are integrated with Children's.
They are an integrated offer and if you had half a fucking clue about healthcare in this area you would know that. Should we move UW & Hutch & Seattle University out to Issaquah too? Should we reengineer the region's entire healthcare, research & educational infrastructure to appease LCC?
As for it taking 30 minutes to get from Hutch to Issaquah: Dude, it is 21.6 miles from Hutch to the Plateau. Not in dispute. In any way. Get a map. Now, some of that is getting out of the city (35 mph), some highway (65 mph). Assuming absolutely no traffic, and driving the speed limit, then that's 30 minutes. Call us when you find out the days when there is no traffic, you fucking blow-hard.
I didn't "introduce" UW to this -- I assumed (wrongly) that you had a shred of intelligence to know that UW is already & absolutely part of this:
- Children's Hospital IS the medical school/residency program for UW's pediatrics program.
– The same way that Hutch/SCCA is the oncology program for Children's.
- And UW is the source of the graduate research assistants for Children's.
- And the nursing residency programs at UW & Seattle U are integrated with Children's.
They are an integrated offer and if you had half a fucking clue about healthcare in this area you would know that. Should we move UW & Hutch & Seattle University out to Issaquah too? Should we reengineer the region's entire healthcare, research & educational infrastructure to appease LCC?
As for it taking 30 minutes to get from Hutch to Issaquah: Dude, it is 21.6 miles from Hutch to the Plateau. Not in dispute. In any way. Get a map. Now, some of that is getting out of the city (35 mph), some highway (65 mph). Assuming absolutely no traffic, and driving the speed limit, then that's 30 minutes. Call us when you find out the days when there is no traffic, you fucking blow-hard.
58
I own my house which is five blocks from Children's but out of the protection of the LLC overlords. Now i have a new townhouse complex built on my back fence where there was once just trees. The townhouse developers had no regard for the impact on my residence nor was the property properly zoned.
On the other side of Sandpoint Way, Children's has bent over backwards trying to work with the community along every step of the development process. There has been millions spent on design, architecture and personel time only to be wiped off the table. This is millions of dollars that could be spent on care and saving lives. How many children have already suffered at the cost of the LLC?
Why does everyone in Seattle have to put up with growth and development except for Laurelhurst? Does been a rich heartless bitch entitle you to a life of greater comfort and privilege then the average NW serf?
I'm proud to have Children's and Ronald Macdonald House in my neighborhood. I'm not proud Jenie Hale and the LLC, actually i think their egos and self centered lifestyle have outgrown our community and they should move to Issaquah, preferably to a gated community.
On the other side of Sandpoint Way, Children's has bent over backwards trying to work with the community along every step of the development process. There has been millions spent on design, architecture and personel time only to be wiped off the table. This is millions of dollars that could be spent on care and saving lives. How many children have already suffered at the cost of the LLC?
Why does everyone in Seattle have to put up with growth and development except for Laurelhurst? Does been a rich heartless bitch entitle you to a life of greater comfort and privilege then the average NW serf?
I'm proud to have Children's and Ronald Macdonald House in my neighborhood. I'm not proud Jenie Hale and the LLC, actually i think their egos and self centered lifestyle have outgrown our community and they should move to Issaquah, preferably to a gated community.
59
I own my house which is five blocks from Children's but out of the protection of the LLC overlords. Now i have a new townhouse complex built on my back fence where there was once just trees. The townhouse developers had no regard for the impact on my residence nor was the property properly zoned.
On the other side of Sandpoint Way, Children's has bent over backwards trying to work with the community along every step of the development process. There has been millions spent on design, architecture and personel time only to be wiped off the table. This is millions of dollars that could be spent on care and saving lives. How many children have already suffered at the cost of the LLC?
Why does everyone in Seattle have to put up with growth and development except for Laurelhurst? Does been a rich heartless bitch entitle you to a life of greater comfort and privilege then the average NW serf?
I'm proud to have Children's and Ronald Macdonald House in my neighborhood. I'm not proud Jeannie Hale and the LLC, actually i think their egos and self centered lifestyle have outgrown our community and they should move to Issaquah, preferably to a gated community.
On the other side of Sandpoint Way, Children's has bent over backwards trying to work with the community along every step of the development process. There has been millions spent on design, architecture and personel time only to be wiped off the table. This is millions of dollars that could be spent on care and saving lives. How many children have already suffered at the cost of the LLC?
Why does everyone in Seattle have to put up with growth and development except for Laurelhurst? Does been a rich heartless bitch entitle you to a life of greater comfort and privilege then the average NW serf?
I'm proud to have Children's and Ronald Macdonald House in my neighborhood. I'm not proud Jeannie Hale and the LLC, actually i think their egos and self centered lifestyle have outgrown our community and they should move to Issaquah, preferably to a gated community.
60
So, yesterday was the deadline to appeal the Hearing Examiner's wrong-headed (and soon-to-be-short-lived) ruling in favor of enclave-ism.
And the results are in:
In Seattle Children's corner:
Harborview, North Seattle Community College, Northwest Hospital, Seattle Central Community College, Seattle Pacific University, Seattle University, South Seattle Community College, Swedish Medical Center, University of Washington and Virginia Mason Medical Center.
In Jeannie Hale's corner:
Another unofficial community group that Hale herself Chairs (Seattle Community Council Federation): An echo chamber for the narrow-minded.
And a no-growth, anti-everything crank who makes Hugo Chavz look like an Libertarian.
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/sore-…
Way to line-up the supporters there LCC!! Awesome.
Hale, you are BLOWING you political capital in town. Have fun being irrelevant.
So, yesterday was the deadline to appeal the Hearing Examiner's wrong-headed (and soon-to-be-short-lived) ruling in favor of enclave-ism.
And the results are in:
In Seattle Children's corner:
Harborview, North Seattle Community College, Northwest Hospital, Seattle Central Community College, Seattle Pacific University, Seattle University, South Seattle Community College, Swedish Medical Center, University of Washington and Virginia Mason Medical Center.
In Jeannie Hale's corner:
Another unofficial community group that Hale herself Chairs (Seattle Community Council Federation): An echo chamber for the narrow-minded.
And a no-growth, anti-everything crank who makes Hugo Chavz look like an Libertarian.
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/sore-…
Way to line-up the supporters there LCC!! Awesome.
Hale, you are BLOWING you political capital in town. Have fun being irrelevant.
61
Unbelievable. LCC should be proud and supportive of such a great facility in their neighborhood. Surely, it was there before most of them arrived. Children's saved my daughter's life on her Day 3 and we will forever be in their debt - we thank God ever day that we had this institution right in our own backyard.
Move somewhere else, have a problem with your kid with nowhere to turn and then tell us how you feel beour fore trying to kick CH out of your neighborhood.
Move somewhere else, have a problem with your kid with nowhere to turn and then tell us how you feel beour fore trying to kick CH out of your neighborhood.
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