Slog
News & ArtsMonday, August 17, 2009
Politics Why We Will Lose on Health Care Reform
Posted by Chicago Fan on Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 10:31 AM
Because Democrats are too fucking spineless (I use the first person plural since it's commonly known that all Slog writers, readers, and commenters are Democrats of some stripe. Feel free to correct me if/when I am wrong).
All polling shows that most people in this country want health care reform, want it now, and want a strong public option to balance the profit-driven health insurance companies whose real goal is to make as much money as possible by paying for as little as possible.
But the Dems in the House, the Senate and the White House lack the courage of their convictions, and our elections, to tell the Republicans (WHO LOST!) , the lobbyists, the right-wing media, and the tea-baggers and town-hall-meeting shouters to fuck off, we're going to do what we know is right, and what we were elected to do. Vote against it if you want, we don't care. We won, and vae victis.
Nope, they're spineless nice-guy cowards who believe that they have to bring their idiot opponents on board, even when that really means losing, since the idiot opponents are absolutists and morons who disregard facts for ideology every time. Compromise with them means watering down anything worth doing till it's not worth doing. Since the beginning of the Bush II Years, "bipartisanship" has been code for "Democrats go Along with Republicans." The Dems got in the habit of this when they were in the minority, and now cannot shake the habit now that they could just DO WHAT WE ELECTED THEM TO FUCKING DO.
The public option will be dropped. The health insurance industry will continue to make its hundreds of millions of dollars (and to donate more to the Rs than the Ds) while scores of millions of Americans go without insurance and other Americans will continue to be bankrupted by their medical bills.
1
Serious question -- why vote anymore? I can't believe I was willing to give up precious hours of my life and my own money to be a delegate at the Dem convention last year -- I'm in my forties and should have known better. No one in politics gets a fucking dime of my money ever again.
2
I agree, the Democrats are spineless, and a consequence of that is that they are unable to control messaging. Concern over Dem's inability to control messaging on any issue, or during campaigns made a brief appearance in 2004 with the idea of "framing" but died down quickly.
The Dem's needed to get out in front of this and to anticipate the "death panel" rhetoric, the "socialism" rhetoric, etc. Neither of these ideas was really that difficult to predict. I heard my Grandpa spouting off a proto-"death panel" meme in July before all the town halls. They blew it, though. Now senior citizens and "real Americans" are riled up about these supposed features of the health care bill, and that's how the debate will be framed from now on, since those two demographics comprise more than 40% of the electorate.
The thing is, the right hasn't offered any alternatives from what I can tell. The Democrats should push through with the public option, and meet any opposition to it with "You have a better idea?" The Republicans won't.
The Dem's needed to get out in front of this and to anticipate the "death panel" rhetoric, the "socialism" rhetoric, etc. Neither of these ideas was really that difficult to predict. I heard my Grandpa spouting off a proto-"death panel" meme in July before all the town halls. They blew it, though. Now senior citizens and "real Americans" are riled up about these supposed features of the health care bill, and that's how the debate will be framed from now on, since those two demographics comprise more than 40% of the electorate.
The thing is, the right hasn't offered any alternatives from what I can tell. The Democrats should push through with the public option, and meet any opposition to it with "You have a better idea?" The Republicans won't.
3
Why do they think we voted for them? So they could kowtow to the minority who fucked up our country for 8 LONG years?
NO! To do the shit we couldn't get done in the last 8 years! To restore America to a country that gets a modicum of respect in the international community as something other than a brat with a gun! To prove that the "intellectual elite" can actually run the government without destroying life for "middle America".
Anyway -- I'm not just bitching with no ideas; I've got a game plan! Obama and the Dems need to take some government agency or program the teabaggers hold dear that's broken and fix it. REALLY fix it. Not something huge, like healthcare, something small, but notable. Then, when the teabaggers say "we can't trust government to fix healthcare" Obama can point to the thing and say, "well, we fixed that!"
I think that racism and astroturfing aside, there is a genuine (and not unfounded) fear that the government will try to "run" healthcare and will turn it into a bureaucratic morass like the DMV (yes, the DMV is a state agency, but the fear is there). If the Dems build some confidence by fixing some small things first, perhaps the fear will be abated.
NO! To do the shit we couldn't get done in the last 8 years! To restore America to a country that gets a modicum of respect in the international community as something other than a brat with a gun! To prove that the "intellectual elite" can actually run the government without destroying life for "middle America".
Anyway -- I'm not just bitching with no ideas; I've got a game plan! Obama and the Dems need to take some government agency or program the teabaggers hold dear that's broken and fix it. REALLY fix it. Not something huge, like healthcare, something small, but notable. Then, when the teabaggers say "we can't trust government to fix healthcare" Obama can point to the thing and say, "well, we fixed that!"
I think that racism and astroturfing aside, there is a genuine (and not unfounded) fear that the government will try to "run" healthcare and will turn it into a bureaucratic morass like the DMV (yes, the DMV is a state agency, but the fear is there). If the Dems build some confidence by fixing some small things first, perhaps the fear will be abated.
4
I told you health care was more important than you getting all upset over DADT and DOMA and that the time things changed was back then, but no, you had to go off in a snit.
And for what?
Now you have neither. And nobody answering your calls.
And for what?
Now you have neither. And nobody answering your calls.
5
Democrats, liberals are just to fucking nice. That is why they are Democrats and liberals, if they were assholes, then they would be gay-hating, tea bagging, Republicans. Their virtual is their un-doing.
7
Well, it's just a trifle more complicated than that. You can't really blame Obama, nor can you blame the generic "Democrats." You can, however, blame the so-called "Blue Dog Democrats" who have kept this from getting the required 60% of the votes.
But don't blame them too much - they're doing exactly what they were elected to do. They're representing their constituents.
And for the record, I'm just as disappointed about how this has turned out as you are.
But don't blame them too much - they're doing exactly what they were elected to do. They're representing their constituents.
And for the record, I'm just as disappointed about how this has turned out as you are.
9
The loss of the public option is not particularly sad. There is no reason to believe that an unsubsidized public company would be more cost-efficient than a private insurer. And if the public option were subsidized, it would be a fiscal black hole. (And unfortunately, even if it started out unsubsidized, it's difficult to believe that it would stay so forever.) In any case, as Obama has said, the public option was ever only a small part of health care reform, which got elevated in the political debate because of left-wing fetishism for government enterprises.
What is sad is actually the loss of the ground that Republicans had been forced to give under the pressure for reform. The Republicans had proposed (1) requiring insurers to offer policies to all comers at the same price, (2) mandating insurance, and (3) subsidizing policies for the poor. Those are good reforms, and you can be damn sure they won't still be on the table when the whole reform package collapses.
What is sad is actually the loss of the ground that Republicans had been forced to give under the pressure for reform. The Republicans had proposed (1) requiring insurers to offer policies to all comers at the same price, (2) mandating insurance, and (3) subsidizing policies for the poor. Those are good reforms, and you can be damn sure they won't still be on the table when the whole reform package collapses.
10
I had a sinking feeling of disappointment yesterday when I read that the public option may be dropped. Not getting health care reform done will screw the country (it's ability to be competitive in a global economy), its citizens (as CF points out, the many without coverage and those who are being bankrupted by illness), and the Democrats (who are basically buying the energetic/passionate masses who voted for them in 2008 a one-way ticket to Apathytown in 2010/2012).
11
Also blame Ted Kennedy and Robert Byrd. You can't have a 60 vote majority when two of them call in sick every day.
For the good of the democrat party, those two need to retire.
For the good of the democrat party, those two need to retire.
12
If they retire, the current rules allow for an election in Nov - they're trying to hold on until it's too late - party politics, @11.
13
As a political motivator, irrational fear & bias will always be stronger than moral imperative. The Repugs have shown that they are willing harness their cart to irrational fear with no regard for conscience; they certainly can't *steer* the cart, but that's another matter...
I can't believe that I was ever naive enough to think that the Dems would have the balls to change anything of substance.
I can't believe that I was ever naive enough to think that the Dems would have the balls to change anything of substance.
14
What?... You still think there is a difference between a politician that is a Democrat and a politician that is a Republican? There is none because at core they are Politicians first and Democrats or Republicans second. Politicians are interested in only one thing. Obtaining and holding onto power. Regardless of what you may have been told as a child, power does not come from the electorate (Democrat or Republican) but the various special interests groups who control the money and the media necessary to get a message to the electorate. This system is enforced by a lack of term limits and a two party system. Lack of term limits incentives politicians to toe the line (as they can potentially retain a life ling hold on power). The two party system enable the power brokers to keep the electorate basically split down the middle and divided against its self, thus they are able to swing power from one political party to another with relatively minor effort and expense. But the underlying truth here is that the power brokers don't care what party governs as long as they govern the way they want them to, and the politicians know that. The voters only think there is a difference because the lies politicians tell on the stump are different based on party affiliation.
Hope for Change all you want. You'll never get it.
That's how we got DADT & DOMA from Clinton and the largest expansion in government since FDR from Bush II.
Hope for Change all you want. You'll never get it.
That's how we got DADT & DOMA from Clinton and the largest expansion in government since FDR from Bush II.
15
@ 9
Umm.
I think you may have misstated:
"elevated in the public debate"
should read as:
"blatantly mischaracterized and unabashedly lied about"
"left-wing fetishism for government enterprises"
should read as:
"right-wing racism, xenophobia, and nostalgia for the Red Scare"
Further corrections pending.
Umm.
I think you may have misstated:
"elevated in the public debate"
should read as:
"blatantly mischaracterized and unabashedly lied about"
"left-wing fetishism for government enterprises"
should read as:
"right-wing racism, xenophobia, and nostalgia for the Red Scare"
Further corrections pending.
16
The difference is the Republicans are the adults in the equation and the Dems are the exitable flighty kids.
When the going gets tough the right just hunkers down grimly and sees things through, the left starts pissing themselves and blaming each other and crying to mommy.
The right is confident in the knowledge that they advocate the morally correct positions, and, even if they lose losing in the defense of morality is not really a loss if you gave it your all.
It is gratifying to see Obama and Slog seeing the light so early in the administration.
These little trips to the woodshed are painful but useful- hopefully you girls won't need another too soon...
When the going gets tough the right just hunkers down grimly and sees things through, the left starts pissing themselves and blaming each other and crying to mommy.
The right is confident in the knowledge that they advocate the morally correct positions, and, even if they lose losing in the defense of morality is not really a loss if you gave it your all.
It is gratifying to see Obama and Slog seeing the light so early in the administration.
These little trips to the woodshed are painful but useful- hopefully you girls won't need another too soon...
17
Gee Willy in Seattle--
Why aren't you out there on the streets protesting and getting yourself locked up in jail at the taxpayers' expense?
All talk aren't you?
You're a self-righteous twit of a breeder only more than happy to criticize gays and lesbians for not doing what you seem unwilling or afraid to do yourself for an issue you think is so damn important.
Your past protest activities in Canada are in the past.
Put up or shut up in the present.
Why aren't you out there on the streets protesting and getting yourself locked up in jail at the taxpayers' expense?
All talk aren't you?
You're a self-righteous twit of a breeder only more than happy to criticize gays and lesbians for not doing what you seem unwilling or afraid to do yourself for an issue you think is so damn important.
Your past protest activities in Canada are in the past.
Put up or shut up in the present.
19
Yes you are wrong Chicago Fan. But it's not the elected officials who are spineless idiots, it's the American population that refuses to get involved. NO voting is not good enough. A dozen freaks show up at public meetings and rant and rave. The media thinks it represents the American population and away we go with the freak show.
Most Americans can't be bothered to march for health care reform. Most just don't want to get involved. Again, those that show up to the meetings and demand, get the attention. Those that sit at home and stew get nothing.
When was the last time YOU called your elected official and voiced your concern?
Most Americans can't be bothered to march for health care reform. Most just don't want to get involved. Again, those that show up to the meetings and demand, get the attention. Those that sit at home and stew get nothing.
When was the last time YOU called your elected official and voiced your concern?
20
The Democrats won all the bases in the game and they are still incapable of doing any thing constructive. They have no cohesive plans or ideas, just millions of grubby hands looking for a freebie at the expense of the workers.
What a laugh...they own the white house and congress andstill can't find their collective asses with both hands... the Republicans handed them Washington through their own stupidity, and the Dems still can't convince enough of their own minions to vote together. You don't neeed Republican permission to do this...you have the legal voting majority.. loosers...talk,talk,talk. girlie politics
The Democrats won all the bases in the game and they are still incapable of doing any thing constructive. They have no cohesive plans or ideas, just millions of grubby hands looking for a freebie at the expense of the workers.
What a laugh...they own the white house and congress andstill can't find their collective asses with both hands... the Republicans handed them Washington through their own stupidity, and the Dems still can't convince enough of their own minions to vote together. You don't neeed Republican permission to do this...you have the legal voting majority.. loosers...talk,talk,talk. girlie politics
21
Oh Stop Crying - You don't need the Republicans to pass anything. Did you ever stop and think that just MAYBE a complete overhaul is NOT the right thing for our country? Do you even realize that 80% of us LIKE our health care plan? Do you REALLY want the government to REQUIRE everyone to have health insurance and be fined if they don't. BTW the fines will be imposed by the IRS who will also have access to your bank account!Do you really want to saddle future generations (and us) with TRILLIONS of taxes? Do you really want a government employee to determine if YOU need a medical service? Do you really want to be FORCED into the government option when you change jobs? These are all portions of the proposed House "reform" bill! You better stop and think about what you REALLY want.
22
OK, first of all, we need to drop the false notion that the Dems are spineless or cowardly--that's simply not true. The fact is that most of the Dems want the same things that the Republicans want, and there are only stylistic differences. This is the reason they can have huge majorities in Congress and ridiculously still blame a lack of votes for an inability to achieve what people desperately want.
It's Congresses' job to protect their rich and powerful puppetmasters from us piss-ons.
Secondly, the Dems blew the "reform" debate even before it started by ruling out simply dropping the age restriction from Medicare. "Medicare for all" taps the positive sentiment felt for this popular progam, and that's a helluva lot easier to explain to people and counter the lies of the Right. They never wanted that--it's been a sham from beginning to end.
Third, gay rights has absolutely nothing to do with the failure of health reform. If you're desperate to blame someone, his name is Barack Obama and his address is 1600 Pennsylvania Ave NW Washington, DC, telephone (202) 456-1111.
It's Congresses' job to protect their rich and powerful puppetmasters from us piss-ons.
Secondly, the Dems blew the "reform" debate even before it started by ruling out simply dropping the age restriction from Medicare. "Medicare for all" taps the positive sentiment felt for this popular progam, and that's a helluva lot easier to explain to people and counter the lies of the Right. They never wanted that--it's been a sham from beginning to end.
Third, gay rights has absolutely nothing to do with the failure of health reform. If you're desperate to blame someone, his name is Barack Obama and his address is 1600 Pennsylvania Ave NW Washington, DC, telephone (202) 456-1111.
23
Did Seattle have a Kiss-In?
After all the big talk about what ASSHOLES and BIGOTS the Mormons are did Dan organize a Kiss-In in Seattle?
All talk.
No action.
Fuck Gay Marriage-
you won't even hang on to Civil Union.
And you don't deserve to.
It's a mean Darwinian world out there and Civil Rights are wasted on backboneless pussies.
Enjoy you anonymous promiscuous bathhouse ButtSex and your Bar Crawl protests and your bitching and whining 24/7.
It's all you'll ever have.
After all the big talk about what ASSHOLES and BIGOTS the Mormons are did Dan organize a Kiss-In in Seattle?
All talk.
No action.
Fuck Gay Marriage-
you won't even hang on to Civil Union.
And you don't deserve to.
It's a mean Darwinian world out there and Civil Rights are wasted on backboneless pussies.
Enjoy you anonymous promiscuous bathhouse ButtSex and your Bar Crawl protests and your bitching and whining 24/7.
It's all you'll ever have.
24
It's time to get what we voted for.....Spineless DEM'S.The insurance companies are the only winners
25
Actually, millions won't go without health insurance, because without the Public Option, we'll all be forced to buy private insurance.
Making this, what, the 10,000,000th corporate giveaway from the Obama Administration?
Making this, what, the 10,000,000th corporate giveaway from the Obama Administration?
26
There's a huge relucatance to blame Obama in this thread.
He's the man, dude, so it falls on him.
All was predictable including recalcitrance of blue dogs.
Did he go to ND SD WY MT NM and those blue dog states and organize people to pressure the blue dogs?
No, he didn't. though he'd said he would.
Chicken.
2. You can blame Obama supporters. he said we're going to do it differently WE'RE GOING TO INVITE THE INSURANCE COMPANIES TO THE TABLE. And the fan base said yay, yippee! We lve his post partisanship! So now we got the triangulating with the insurers, and most grass roots democrats actually supported it.
The spinelessness is the long term problem of ACCEPTING THE RIGHT WING lie that gummint is the problem/the insurers are part of our solution/we must preserve them not attack them/we must let them to the table. At a certain point you ahve to bite the bullet and say, um, actually the whole GOP program is one big lie, a scam by which the powerful stay in power by fooling people with untruths that are massive, deliberate, and done for money and power.
Hey look. My sister lived in Austira in the 19790s and she got a whole inner ear replacement for free....all those little bones...very advanced surgery....she wasn't even a citizen! And she had a minimum or no wage job in a social service agency just caring for oldsters. This is what the Democrats let the GOP call communism and death panels and the loss of freedom and all that crap. So ultimately the GOP lies are scaring voters and scaring Democratic leaders...
well then, the lesson would be, DON'T ELECT SOMEONE WHO SAYS HE'S GOING TO SIT DOWN WITH THE INSURANCE COMPANIES!
He could have organized a few hundred thousands in all those blue dog states. But no. He made a deal with Tauzin, the whore.
So here we are.
No hope, no change, but we got unity
with insurers!
And they get 47 million new customers and new found legitimacy because they agreed to reform!
Nice deal for them!
More...
He's the man, dude, so it falls on him.
All was predictable including recalcitrance of blue dogs.
Did he go to ND SD WY MT NM and those blue dog states and organize people to pressure the blue dogs?
No, he didn't. though he'd said he would.
Chicken.
2. You can blame Obama supporters. he said we're going to do it differently WE'RE GOING TO INVITE THE INSURANCE COMPANIES TO THE TABLE. And the fan base said yay, yippee! We lve his post partisanship! So now we got the triangulating with the insurers, and most grass roots democrats actually supported it.
The spinelessness is the long term problem of ACCEPTING THE RIGHT WING lie that gummint is the problem/the insurers are part of our solution/we must preserve them not attack them/we must let them to the table. At a certain point you ahve to bite the bullet and say, um, actually the whole GOP program is one big lie, a scam by which the powerful stay in power by fooling people with untruths that are massive, deliberate, and done for money and power.
Hey look. My sister lived in Austira in the 19790s and she got a whole inner ear replacement for free....all those little bones...very advanced surgery....she wasn't even a citizen! And she had a minimum or no wage job in a social service agency just caring for oldsters. This is what the Democrats let the GOP call communism and death panels and the loss of freedom and all that crap. So ultimately the GOP lies are scaring voters and scaring Democratic leaders...
well then, the lesson would be, DON'T ELECT SOMEONE WHO SAYS HE'S GOING TO SIT DOWN WITH THE INSURANCE COMPANIES!
He could have organized a few hundred thousands in all those blue dog states. But no. He made a deal with Tauzin, the whore.
So here we are.
No hope, no change, but we got unity
with insurers!
And they get 47 million new customers and new found legitimacy because they agreed to reform!
Nice deal for them!
27
That's what you get for thinking that someone is going to represent your interests just because they have a "D" on their jersey rather than an "R". Both parties have been playing this country like fools while they accept millions in corporate lobbying funds. Meaningful reform (forget about single payer) is impossible with the system we have now.
28
Angry but not surprised. I have a hard time caring, because I know that nothing good will be done.
Heckava job Dems. Have fun losing all your seats in 2010. and Obama? Tell Rudi Gulliani I said hello while you are touring the paid speaking gig circuit in 2012.
Dear new republican overlords of 2012, please let the west coast secede from the union. kthxbai.
Heckava job Dems. Have fun losing all your seats in 2010. and Obama? Tell Rudi Gulliani I said hello while you are touring the paid speaking gig circuit in 2012.
Dear new republican overlords of 2012, please let the west coast secede from the union. kthxbai.
29
Here's the deal. Whether or not liberals are spineless, nice or scaredy cats, "the American people" includes an amazing number of very stupid people. Anyone that can be convinced that private insurance companies are more trustworthy than the federal government, is flat out stupid. Anybody who is impressed by Dick Armey is stupid beyond imagination. The Democrats must immediately adopt an US vs THEM mentality. Insurance companies, Republicans, Hospitals -- THEM. Liberal Democrats: US. US must beat THEM. Second choice, US may lose to THEM. Last choice and the worst of all: Compromise
30
@ 16
It is absolutely HILARIOUS that anyone can believe that the Right is actually concerned with morality.
The Right *uses* morality as a tool to acquire power ($$) and to stay in power ($$). If you have previously voted for a conservative candidate on the basis of a moral issue, you have been *used*.
It is absolutely HILARIOUS that anyone can believe that the Right is actually concerned with morality.
The Right *uses* morality as a tool to acquire power ($$) and to stay in power ($$). If you have previously voted for a conservative candidate on the basis of a moral issue, you have been *used*.
31
Healthcare should not be a for profit business-it should be non profit and benefit all. It's hard to believe that these reactionaries and a lot of them are lower and middle class , want to cut their own throats, in the name of for profit health care.
32
The spectrum of political philosophy/ political interests of the Democratic Party are far wider and more diverse than that of the Republican Party. Democrats tend to think more independently and also represent populations with a wide array of interests- everyone from a white corn farmer in certain Midwestern states (Blue Dog), to white urban liberals and inner-city minorities. Republicans, as a party and as a voting population, seem to be more unified around issues that are important to the vast majority of conservatives- guns, god, taxes, government intrusion, etc. This rank and file approach creates the solidarity and loyalty that allows Republican controlled Congresses to freight train legislation through to the Executive.
Democrats are not spineless- I truly believe that every member of the party is fighting for what they feel will benefit their constituencies. However, being the diverse party that the Democrats are, coming to a consensus on how to go about something as ground shaking and controversial as health care reform is next to impossible. It’s easy for the Republican members to sell their idea of health care reform to their constituencies, “Govmint, stay out.” This is a strategy that all conservatives with 2 brains cells to rub together will rally around and it will ultimately work for the Republicans again- as evidenced already by the Public Option being dropped.
It’s the make-up of the party itself that hamstrings the Democrat’s ability to get anything done. Although it may be a factor to a certain point, this inability cannot simply be boiled down to cowardice.
Democrats are not spineless- I truly believe that every member of the party is fighting for what they feel will benefit their constituencies. However, being the diverse party that the Democrats are, coming to a consensus on how to go about something as ground shaking and controversial as health care reform is next to impossible. It’s easy for the Republican members to sell their idea of health care reform to their constituencies, “Govmint, stay out.” This is a strategy that all conservatives with 2 brains cells to rub together will rally around and it will ultimately work for the Republicans again- as evidenced already by the Public Option being dropped.
It’s the make-up of the party itself that hamstrings the Democrat’s ability to get anything done. Although it may be a factor to a certain point, this inability cannot simply be boiled down to cowardice.
33
30
laugh it up, fuzzball.
and pray to what ever you worship that the Dems "use" you as well as the Republicans use their supporters.
The Dems have the White House in a landslide and SuperMajorities in Congress and still can't get shit.
We have more fun in our worst off years than you do at the pinnacle of your "success".
laugh it up, fuzzball.
and pray to what ever you worship that the Dems "use" you as well as the Republicans use their supporters.
The Dems have the White House in a landslide and SuperMajorities in Congress and still can't get shit.
We have more fun in our worst off years than you do at the pinnacle of your "success".
34
I think #7 hit the nail on the head. Corporate lobbyists have way way too much power in this country (I am carefully watching that airline passengers bill of rights, who is not for that after all except airline lobbyists?) but ultimately what we have here is conservative dems accurately representing their conservative districts. The American moron gets the government and the health care he deserves because he is the majority and this is a democracy.
36
Tom..........it's virtue, not virtual. And, the major liberal comments here are so typical. You think you are too nice? Think again. Some of the nastiest blogs and comments online are from you folks. You are the ones who have been the protesters since the 60's. That's where the conservatives found their models on how to rudely protest (which is the model many are taking in their rudeness at town hall meetings).
37
So the problem with Democrats is, in essence, that they are not sufficiently left-wing, and that they are too polite to those with whom they disagree? Thus, for instance, Pelosi should have called the protesters out and out traitors rather than subtly alluding to their Nazi sympathies?
Keep thinking that. For every person you reach, your will anger 3. And several more will simply tune you out.
Keep thinking that. For every person you reach, your will anger 3. And several more will simply tune you out.
38
Too Nice?
haha.
good one.
You are the murderous bastards who slaughter 800,000 babies each year in the name of "Sex Without Responsibility"
haha.
good one.
You are the murderous bastards who slaughter 800,000 babies each year in the name of "Sex Without Responsibility"
39
This is a really lame attempt at political analysis. Dems couldn't push this through because of their conservative small-state senators like Baucus and Conrad. There's much, much more to it then that. And it's not over. I encourage people to read up and call their senators and representatives to get a good bill passed.
42
So let's see if this is what you are saying about insurance companies or any other capitalistic entity. You are saying that businesses should not make money....or just not a lot of money and that our government can do it better, right? You would rather have the government control how much investors in those insurance companies get for risking their hard earned money. After all, the government has done so well on things like Social Security, Medicare, welfare, right?
What ever happened to good old competition? The answer is it is alive and well as long as our GOVERNMENT stays out of the way.
The reason Obama and the democrats are losing on this is because 80% of us Americans are happy with what we now have. Retirees have, for the most part, good health insurance coverage. Obama and Co. look at the few that we all agree need help and says "Let's have our government take control of it all."
The solution is to identify that 15 or 20 percent that truly need health care coverage and provide it for them! Period. Keep those that are just lazy out of it and people will get on board without hesitation.
The democrats aren't losing on this issue because they aren't getting the message out. They are losing because the message is out and America does not like it and that includes many democrats.
What ever happened to good old competition? The answer is it is alive and well as long as our GOVERNMENT stays out of the way.
The reason Obama and the democrats are losing on this is because 80% of us Americans are happy with what we now have. Retirees have, for the most part, good health insurance coverage. Obama and Co. look at the few that we all agree need help and says "Let's have our government take control of it all."
The solution is to identify that 15 or 20 percent that truly need health care coverage and provide it for them! Period. Keep those that are just lazy out of it and people will get on board without hesitation.
The democrats aren't losing on this issue because they aren't getting the message out. They are losing because the message is out and America does not like it and that includes many democrats.
43
@17 - lol, like you have any idea what I really do or have done.
If you get bored, realize that recycled paper in that magazine you read is there because of what I did.
Actions. Not words.
You're talking, but the voter turnout in your area is still low in this primary period.
If you get bored, realize that recycled paper in that magazine you read is there because of what I did.
Actions. Not words.
You're talking, but the voter turnout in your area is still low in this primary period.
44
New idea for Schmader's "Daily Poll Dance" posts: how many pro-reform Sloggers have actually taken the time to contact their elected representatives and voice their opinions?
45
Wow is Slog starting to attract Freepers?
That those possessed with a wild paranoia about government bureaucrats making decisions about their health care are the same who are perfectly cool with corporate bureaucrats making decisions about their health care never ceases to bewilder.
Hey maybe if more of our delightful fellow citizens of a right-wing persuasion are coming here to engage we can educate them about a thing or two. Let's start (hold onto your seats): Medicare is run by the government.
That those possessed with a wild paranoia about government bureaucrats making decisions about their health care are the same who are perfectly cool with corporate bureaucrats making decisions about their health care never ceases to bewilder.
Hey maybe if more of our delightful fellow citizens of a right-wing persuasion are coming here to engage we can educate them about a thing or two. Let's start (hold onto your seats): Medicare is run by the government.
46
The "F" word rules in the lib rads vocabulary and they are angered because Americans are speaking out against the socialist "D's proposals on health
reform. Cool off because this is just the beginning of an awakening for
a real populous movement in our country.
reform. Cool off because this is just the beginning of an awakening for
a real populous movement in our country.
47
@45 - because people are fighting back against them on WaPo and Seattle Times and PI so they realized most of the ideas used against them came from here.
They do track us with these cookies, you know.
They do track us with these cookies, you know.
48
Love this mornonic quote: "The "F" word rules in the lib rads vocabulary"
And your N words you whisper amongst yourselves on the right..."nigger", "nazi" etc are all just fine and dandy to you?
"this is just the beginning of an awakening for
a real populous movement in our country."
OK, tough guy. Have at it. You guys talk a big game with your gun toting morons outside rallies, wrapped up the flag like patriots. When in fact you are all nut-job, xenophbic, racist, selffish pricks. Oh and I think we already say your brand of "populous movement" in the EIGHT YEARS of your regime. Or were you taking a NAP the last 8 years?
And your N words you whisper amongst yourselves on the right..."nigger", "nazi" etc are all just fine and dandy to you?
"this is just the beginning of an awakening for
a real populous movement in our country."
OK, tough guy. Have at it. You guys talk a big game with your gun toting morons outside rallies, wrapped up the flag like patriots. When in fact you are all nut-job, xenophbic, racist, selffish pricks. Oh and I think we already say your brand of "populous movement" in the EIGHT YEARS of your regime. Or were you taking a NAP the last 8 years?
50
'A real populous movement in our country'
I don't know why that statement immediately caused a clip from Dawn of the Dead to start playing in my mind.
I don't know why that statement immediately caused a clip from Dawn of the Dead to start playing in my mind.
51
@7 - a little bit of misinformation. You wrote "You can, however, blame the so-called "Blue Dog Democrats" who have kept this from getting the required 60% of the votes."
I blame the Blue Dogs too. And oh, how I hate Max Baucus and Kent Conrad. But it's not strictly accurate to state 60% of the votes is required. 60% of the votes is only required to beat a filibuster. Health care could pass on a majority vote. Routine threats of a filibuster are a new phenomenon (first emerging as an anti-civil rights tactic in the 50s and 60s), which results in the Senate moving at the speed of its 40th most progressive member -- usually a Senator from a podunk state representing literally 0.5 percent of the population. Think North Dakota or Montana. This is insane. And insanely undemocratic.
The procedure here is really important in explaining the crappy policy outcomes. So we can't accept the "requirement" that health care pass with 60% of the votes, when that is a recent invention that individual Senators prefer because it gives each of them a veto on National Policy. Matt Yglesias and now Rep. Inslee are pretty good at explaining this one.
http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archiv…
I blame the Blue Dogs too. And oh, how I hate Max Baucus and Kent Conrad. But it's not strictly accurate to state 60% of the votes is required. 60% of the votes is only required to beat a filibuster. Health care could pass on a majority vote. Routine threats of a filibuster are a new phenomenon (first emerging as an anti-civil rights tactic in the 50s and 60s), which results in the Senate moving at the speed of its 40th most progressive member -- usually a Senator from a podunk state representing literally 0.5 percent of the population. Think North Dakota or Montana. This is insane. And insanely undemocratic.
The procedure here is really important in explaining the crappy policy outcomes. So we can't accept the "requirement" that health care pass with 60% of the votes, when that is a recent invention that individual Senators prefer because it gives each of them a veto on National Policy. Matt Yglesias and now Rep. Inslee are pretty good at explaining this one.
http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archiv…
52
@51: "Misinformation?" No. "Abbreviation?" Yes. I just wasn't in the mood to get into the long explanation. (Your explanation, by the way, is too short to really even qualify as the "short" explanation.)
53
If Obama backs away from the "Change" he promised and there's a suggestion that the extremist right wing nuts have actually blocked meaningful Health care/Insurance reform, Watch Out.
54
OK, so what do we do about it? For those of us who have jobs so we can't give up our lives to stand out in front of TV cameras with idiotic slogans on them. For those of us who have already written our congressmen (I assume all of you have done this already). For those of us who voted for these pussies but can't vote directly on the bill (thank you representative democracy). What do we do? Got any tips Chicago fan? Or Dan? Or Charles? Or any of you? Please help! I want this to pass. I think it's important but I've done everything I can think of.
55
@54 - you make it hurt.
That's what you do.
You organize boycotts against the advertisers on the media carrying their water.
You have your friends every time you go out to a bar grab some of those postcards and HANDWRITE a free postcard from the bar to nearby members of House/Senate insist on single payer national health care and tell them your vote depends on it. You use a reverse directory to pop in names, just like the Talibangelist Tin Foil Brigade does, from their districts, to make artificial astrotruf in non-Seattle areas.
You fight dirty. And you refuse to take no for an answer.
That's what you do.
You organize boycotts against the advertisers on the media carrying their water.
You have your friends every time you go out to a bar grab some of those postcards and HANDWRITE a free postcard from the bar to nearby members of House/Senate insist on single payer national health care and tell them your vote depends on it. You use a reverse directory to pop in names, just like the Talibangelist Tin Foil Brigade does, from their districts, to make artificial astrotruf in non-Seattle areas.
You fight dirty. And you refuse to take no for an answer.
56
Hmmm, I want health care reform by the likes of people who can't express an opinion without vulgarity ... not. I voted for Bush twice. My problem with him is that he tried to cozy up to DEMOCRATS by spending on their stupid programs (education, Amtrack, the arts, etc). In turn they spit in his face. The next conservative I vote for and support will not be compassionate; he will be a true fiscal conservative. As to the polls, they consistently and and unequivocally say that Americans DO NOT WANT SINGLE PAYER HEALTH CARE! Everyone knows health insurance needs reform, but only minority want the public option and even fewer want single payer.
58
@56 - so, you admit you hate America.
Now that we have that established, Comrade, why should we EVER bother to listen to you?
Now that we have that established, Comrade, why should we EVER bother to listen to you?
59
all you vulgar geniuses have not addressed legitimate concerns raised about the bill. Which is why you all are considered irrelevant to the debate.
GIMMEE GIMMEE GIMMEE
GIMMEE GIMMEE GIMMEE
60
Ok righties so perhaps you could enlighten us as to what 'reform' looks like without a public option? You are aware that health care costs have gone up roughly 5 times the rate of inflation over the last 10 years yes? Do you imagine sans-public option this trend will abate? Do you imagine that you will be able to continue coasting oblivious to the cost of your health care indefinitely given this trend? You are aware that corporate bureaucrats are making decisions about your health care presently yes? In what way shape or form are they better qualified for this than public bureaucrats? Does it not seem likely that the corporate bureaucrat with an eye to profits is going to be considerably less likely to make the decision about your health care that benefits you?
61
Not so "fucking" fast.... Dems have to figure out how to pay for what they want, AND stop expecting somebody else to pay.
62
60
"You are aware that health care costs have gone up roughly 5 times the rate of inflation over the last 10 years yes?"
I'm glad you asked.
And your question is the most important one in the whole issue, and one that Obama has totally not addressed.
When consumers pay for a product themselves they care how much it costs and will look for a better bargain. Providers respond to this pressure by looking for ways to keep cost down. It is Economics 101 and it always works.
That feedback mechanism has been broken in medicine. Once insurance came along the consumer/patient didn't care or usually even know how much the 'product' cost. Providers realized this and cost spiraled. Yearly limits added more perverse incentive to spend health care dollars wastefully because they would be 'lost' if not used.
The solution to rising costs will be to return some incentive to the patient to be a wise consumer.
Throwing millions more people into the "I don't care what it costs, I'm covered" pool will not help.
Neither will having the government pick up a big piece of the tab and absorbing the pain.
The system has to be reworked so people who make healthy lifestyle choices and are wise healthcare consumers once again see an economic behefit to themselves and those who do not see a financial penalty.
Providers will respond to newly enlightened financial stakeholder consumers by finding ways to hold cost in line.
A perfect illustration is LASIK surgery. It is usually not covered by insurance. Cost have dropped steadily since the procedure was introduced. What other healthcare product is that true of?
"You are aware that health care costs have gone up roughly 5 times the rate of inflation over the last 10 years yes?"
I'm glad you asked.
And your question is the most important one in the whole issue, and one that Obama has totally not addressed.
When consumers pay for a product themselves they care how much it costs and will look for a better bargain. Providers respond to this pressure by looking for ways to keep cost down. It is Economics 101 and it always works.
That feedback mechanism has been broken in medicine. Once insurance came along the consumer/patient didn't care or usually even know how much the 'product' cost. Providers realized this and cost spiraled. Yearly limits added more perverse incentive to spend health care dollars wastefully because they would be 'lost' if not used.
The solution to rising costs will be to return some incentive to the patient to be a wise consumer.
Throwing millions more people into the "I don't care what it costs, I'm covered" pool will not help.
Neither will having the government pick up a big piece of the tab and absorbing the pain.
The system has to be reworked so people who make healthy lifestyle choices and are wise healthcare consumers once again see an economic behefit to themselves and those who do not see a financial penalty.
Providers will respond to newly enlightened financial stakeholder consumers by finding ways to hold cost in line.
A perfect illustration is LASIK surgery. It is usually not covered by insurance. Cost have dropped steadily since the procedure was introduced. What other healthcare product is that true of?
63
@62 -
When consumers pay for a product themselves they care how much it costs and will look for a better bargain. Providers respond to this pressure by looking for ways to keep cost down. It is Economics 101 and it always works.
How many choices of electricity or water providers do you have? Does every employer provide a choice of health care providers? Do you think most Americans are really going to leave their employer to go to another one because the other employer has a better health plan? Do you expect that most Americans have the luxury to make employment choices based on the employer's healthcare benefits?
Look, I know in your fantasy libertarian world everyone can find and have the most perfect pony ever through the power of the free market but you realize that real life doesn't actually work like that, yes?
When consumers pay for a product themselves they care how much it costs and will look for a better bargain. Providers respond to this pressure by looking for ways to keep cost down. It is Economics 101 and it always works.
How many choices of electricity or water providers do you have? Does every employer provide a choice of health care providers? Do you think most Americans are really going to leave their employer to go to another one because the other employer has a better health plan? Do you expect that most Americans have the luxury to make employment choices based on the employer's healthcare benefits?
Look, I know in your fantasy libertarian world everyone can find and have the most perfect pony ever through the power of the free market but you realize that real life doesn't actually work like that, yes?
64
Ok so how exactly is the system going to be 'reworked' to return some incentive to the consumer? People are screaming about the prospect of paying more in taxes to cover more uninsured do you imagine they would not be screaming twice as loud if they had to actually pay more out of pocket for health care that is now miraculously covered by employer-provided insurance? Merely showing them the bill would not mean squat. To my knowledge many if not most providers do that now, I know mine does.
And it is entirely inaccurate to state that Obama has 'totally not addressed' spiraling costs. The number one reason for having a public option is to have a heavyweight in the market place that can negotiate prices and force private insurers to become more efficient to compete. This is a concrete proposal for limiting the growth of health care costs. The right does not have anything like a legitimate counter-proposal. In reality as the right consists of those who have been profiting nicely from spiraling costs (and those they have duped with red-scare tactics) they have no interest in limiting future growth and all they are really concerned with is short-circuiting any attempts to do this.
And it is entirely inaccurate to state that Obama has 'totally not addressed' spiraling costs. The number one reason for having a public option is to have a heavyweight in the market place that can negotiate prices and force private insurers to become more efficient to compete. This is a concrete proposal for limiting the growth of health care costs. The right does not have anything like a legitimate counter-proposal. In reality as the right consists of those who have been profiting nicely from spiraling costs (and those they have duped with red-scare tactics) they have no interest in limiting future growth and all they are really concerned with is short-circuiting any attempts to do this.
65
64
Having a "heavyweight in the market place that can negotiate prices and force private insurers to become more efficient to compete" is not free market capitalism, it is state directed SOCIALISM. You may have studied the Soviet Union in history, it collapsed.
That is a crucial difference between Republicans and Democraps, between Romney and Obama, between small business owners who are the backbone of our economy and social workers-community organizers-bureaucrats-public 'service' employees who live off the fat of the land- one has and the other totally lacks a fundamental understanding of and intrinsic feeling for how the economy works (and doesn't).
Having a "heavyweight in the market place that can negotiate prices and force private insurers to become more efficient to compete" is not free market capitalism, it is state directed SOCIALISM. You may have studied the Soviet Union in history, it collapsed.
That is a crucial difference between Republicans and Democraps, between Romney and Obama, between small business owners who are the backbone of our economy and social workers-community organizers-bureaucrats-public 'service' employees who live off the fat of the land- one has and the other totally lacks a fundamental understanding of and intrinsic feeling for how the economy works (and doesn't).
66
Excuse me, Why don't you tell your President and Congress-persons what you think of their chicken-shit behavior? Write a letter to your Senators, House Representatives, and President. I did.
67
Yeah dude red-baiting is always a good way to win an argument. Our glorious free market system costs us double the next most expensive system in the developed world per capita (and that is with 45 million people being uninsured). Doesn't exactly look like the free market is doing what it is supposed to do in the area of health care. Question was how are you going to create an incentive for people to bargain shop for health care? And apparently you have no answer. A public provider is an actual, proven (take a look at those 'socialist' systems that don't appear to be too near collapse), means of keeping costs down. You don't have a viable alternative, just ideology that has no touch with reality.
68
63
64
If my employer provided insurance has a $3000 deductible I am going to care how, and if, that $3000 gets spent. I am going to question my doctor and hospital and exert what influence I have to get the best deal. And 300 million other American doing the same thing will be a huge force to motivate providers to get costs down. Much more effective than Obama dictating to providers to "cut costs".
If when I don't use any or as much of my coverage I get a bonus in my paycheck that I can spend as I want I will never have a procedure again just because I haven't maxed out my yearly benefit level.
If my copay or share of premiums goes up (enough to matter) when by BMI does I might drag my fat ass off the couch and get a little exercise, and if I don't I can pay a fairer share for my coverage.
If my employer has a choice between less expensive plans like the one above and more expensive traditional plans he will gravitate toward the less costly option. And hundreds of thousands of employers across the nation doing the same thing will exert a huge influence on insurance companies to get lean and mean. Much more effective than Obama railing about how evil insurance companies are.
If a $1 a bottle tax is added to soda and $3 to a pint of Ben&Jerry's and $2 to a bag of chips (and that money goes straight to fund Medicare or dental care for children etc etc) I may start thinking about what I shove down my gullet and if I choose to consume anyway I will at least be chipping in a more proportional share of the inevitable cost of treating my diabetes and heart disease and back trouble. (and we'll tax cigarettes and alcohol more as well...) (a ton of money could be raised taxing nutritionally empty food- people could pony up if they want to eat the crap or do without and be much better off...)
75% of health care dollars go to treat easily preventable lifestyle related disease. It is time to quit treating obesity and lifestyle related type 2 diabetes and heart disease etc etc as things that just happen to innocent people and hold ourselves financially accountable for our lifestyle choices.
More...
64
If my employer provided insurance has a $3000 deductible I am going to care how, and if, that $3000 gets spent. I am going to question my doctor and hospital and exert what influence I have to get the best deal. And 300 million other American doing the same thing will be a huge force to motivate providers to get costs down. Much more effective than Obama dictating to providers to "cut costs".
If when I don't use any or as much of my coverage I get a bonus in my paycheck that I can spend as I want I will never have a procedure again just because I haven't maxed out my yearly benefit level.
If my copay or share of premiums goes up (enough to matter) when by BMI does I might drag my fat ass off the couch and get a little exercise, and if I don't I can pay a fairer share for my coverage.
If my employer has a choice between less expensive plans like the one above and more expensive traditional plans he will gravitate toward the less costly option. And hundreds of thousands of employers across the nation doing the same thing will exert a huge influence on insurance companies to get lean and mean. Much more effective than Obama railing about how evil insurance companies are.
If a $1 a bottle tax is added to soda and $3 to a pint of Ben&Jerry's and $2 to a bag of chips (and that money goes straight to fund Medicare or dental care for children etc etc) I may start thinking about what I shove down my gullet and if I choose to consume anyway I will at least be chipping in a more proportional share of the inevitable cost of treating my diabetes and heart disease and back trouble. (and we'll tax cigarettes and alcohol more as well...) (a ton of money could be raised taxing nutritionally empty food- people could pony up if they want to eat the crap or do without and be much better off...)
75% of health care dollars go to treat easily preventable lifestyle related disease. It is time to quit treating obesity and lifestyle related type 2 diabetes and heart disease etc etc as things that just happen to innocent people and hold ourselves financially accountable for our lifestyle choices.
69
67
We don't have a free market health care system.
Insurance is regulated to death, required to provide various coverages based on the whims of 50 state legislatures, unable to compete across state lines, etc.
Providers are also heavily regulated, permits required to install new equipment and build clinics and hospitals- all designed to avoid competition and duplication of service.
Before you criticize free market health care you should let the nation try it.
We don't have a free market health care system.
Insurance is regulated to death, required to provide various coverages based on the whims of 50 state legislatures, unable to compete across state lines, etc.
Providers are also heavily regulated, permits required to install new equipment and build clinics and hospitals- all designed to avoid competition and duplication of service.
Before you criticize free market health care you should let the nation try it.
70
Also require everyone to purchase at least a basic plan covering catastrophic illness. That would flush a lot of the currently uninsured into the system.
Also make the tax code treat insurance provided by an employer and insurance purchased by an individual the same; either tax it or don't but treat both the same.
Also institute tort reform. Malpractice lawsuits are about the sorriest way imaginable to deal with substandard care. Set up a system that actually regulates providers and weeds out or gets training for substandard providers and is not a lottery for lawyers and plaintiffs.
There are a lot of things that could be done to vastly improve the system (that desperately needs to be improved) without turning it all over to the incompetent hands of the government.
Also make the tax code treat insurance provided by an employer and insurance purchased by an individual the same; either tax it or don't but treat both the same.
Also institute tort reform. Malpractice lawsuits are about the sorriest way imaginable to deal with substandard care. Set up a system that actually regulates providers and weeds out or gets training for substandard providers and is not a lottery for lawyers and plaintiffs.
There are a lot of things that could be done to vastly improve the system (that desperately needs to be improved) without turning it all over to the incompetent hands of the government.
71
Hmm I'll bet a $3000 deductible would be a real enticement to prospective employees. I somehow doubt that idea is going to go over too much better with those alleged 80% who are theoretically satisfied with their health plans than anything Obama is proposing.
This is pretty straightforward: the free market system is about making a profit, profits first. Treating sick people is not going to be profitable no matter what, hence if truly left to their own devices insurers would efficiently strip anyone who is actually sick from their rolls. That is what you would have without any regulation whatsoever and that is really why it is pretty absurd to suggest that you could have a quality health care system based on the unregulated free market.
And your proposed taxes sound kind of, well, socialistic.
This is pretty straightforward: the free market system is about making a profit, profits first. Treating sick people is not going to be profitable no matter what, hence if truly left to their own devices insurers would efficiently strip anyone who is actually sick from their rolls. That is what you would have without any regulation whatsoever and that is really why it is pretty absurd to suggest that you could have a quality health care system based on the unregulated free market.
And your proposed taxes sound kind of, well, socialistic.
72
As an un-affiliated with libertarian leanings I have to say the reponse from the left is just down right funny. There were 8 years of equating Bush with Hitler, Genghis Khan, Stalin, Monkee, etc..... the demand for reasonable speach today from the left is just down right hypocrtical.
On the health care debate, there is no doubt we eventually need to do something but the current proposal without any hint of tort reform stinks of politics with the democratic parties highest contributer getting a free pass.
BTW - I fucking hate Bush!
On the health care debate, there is no doubt we eventually need to do something but the current proposal without any hint of tort reform stinks of politics with the democratic parties highest contributer getting a free pass.
BTW - I fucking hate Bush!
73
Damn! I was looking forward to seeing baristas heads explode when another 20% of their paychecks vanished to force them to get insurance!
74
Aside from the political bullshit, there are too many other hurdles to health care reform, namely the need to reform how doctors practice health care in this country, i.e. be more like doctors and less like legalized drug dealers. And there's no way Big Pharma allows that.
As long as the status quo remains on that end, health care will remain too expensive for a public option to be feasible.
As long as the status quo remains on that end, health care will remain too expensive for a public option to be feasible.
75
I really can't believe there are people on the left so deluded as to want to pin the blame for this on Obama. Really guys? What does Obama have that most presidents over the last century have had? Teddy Roosevelt tried, FDR tries, Truman tried, Eisenhower tried, Nixon tried, Carter tried, Clinton tried, and now Obama tried. He's now moved this so much farther than anybody before him, the fact that any bill has made it out of committee, much less will soon get it to the floor of the House/Senate for a vote is damn impressive considering the historical benchmarks of healthcare reform.
And Slog might as well fuck off, I don't hold them personally accountable but they fall into the having same idiotic ideas that the left gets trapped into it seems every time they ascend to political dominance. You're too fucking stupid and short-sighted to actually fucking support a president when they need it, instead you're all too eager to completely drop support of them and call them the fucking enemy at any real or even perceived fucking slight.
Congratulations, I really hope you're proud of yourselves. Your worthless spine disappeared as soon as Obama started to face the real constraints on his position and left him with barely any support to pass his agenda. I'm sooo sorry that the fact Obama still doesn't have his office of legal council nominee approved yet is so terrible for you that you decide childishly throw a temper tantrum at that.
And Slog might as well fuck off, I don't hold them personally accountable but they fall into the having same idiotic ideas that the left gets trapped into it seems every time they ascend to political dominance. You're too fucking stupid and short-sighted to actually fucking support a president when they need it, instead you're all too eager to completely drop support of them and call them the fucking enemy at any real or even perceived fucking slight.
Congratulations, I really hope you're proud of yourselves. Your worthless spine disappeared as soon as Obama started to face the real constraints on his position and left him with barely any support to pass his agenda. I'm sooo sorry that the fact Obama still doesn't have his office of legal council nominee approved yet is so terrible for you that you decide childishly throw a temper tantrum at that.
76
I wish you'd cite the polls you say show "most people in this country want health care reform, want it now, and want a strong public option". Every poll I've seen indicates we are LOSING and LOSING BADLY.
How could they screw up so badly on a message of wanting to GIVE people something?! Un-frickin-believable.
How could they screw up so badly on a message of wanting to GIVE people something?! Un-frickin-believable.
77
Obama tried to pass the buck off to Congress, the most unpopular institution in America right now. I never understood why he would let a dysfunctional operation as the U.S. Congress handle something so explosive to his own office. His ass was on the line from the first day he decided to tackle health care. But he didn't get out in front of the problem, he tried to shift responsibility for it, and he's getting hammered.
He keeps saying "it's not about me." It is about you. Your the president. This is America. Everything is about you. No one gives a shit about Congress unless they want to bitch about how much they hate their taxes or the government. Nobody follows Congress. Nobody cares about them whatsoever.
Your responsible for everything that is done while you are in office. Everything. The Republicans raised the stakes on health care reform. You either fold now, or you go all-in. You can' t just hope to limp in, and figure the congressional Democrats will sort things out. You need to get out in front, put your ass on the line, and slam this thing through, and fight it out in mid-term elections 2010.
He keeps saying "it's not about me." It is about you. Your the president. This is America. Everything is about you. No one gives a shit about Congress unless they want to bitch about how much they hate their taxes or the government. Nobody follows Congress. Nobody cares about them whatsoever.
Your responsible for everything that is done while you are in office. Everything. The Republicans raised the stakes on health care reform. You either fold now, or you go all-in. You can' t just hope to limp in, and figure the congressional Democrats will sort things out. You need to get out in front, put your ass on the line, and slam this thing through, and fight it out in mid-term elections 2010.
78
How did Civil Rights or the Environmental Movement happen? It was a mass popular push, broad-based, bottom up, that forced legislative change against legislators' will (Civil Rights Act 1968 and Clean Air/Water Acts). It didn't come from the top down. Real change never, ever comes from the top down. Business interests want the public to be quiet and docile, teaching us, subtly, that the extent of our political involvement is to vote in elections. And although Obama was elected on a wave of popular support, insurance and pharma are beating down doors with $1 mil per day. But we know the majority of people support the reforms Obama proposes. WE NEED TO STAND UP AND DEMONSTRATE MAJOR SUPPORT FOR THESE REFORMS.
Business wants you to be disgruntled and politically inactive. And so, it works if you give up on the Democrats, or any representative. This isn't over yet. I believe Obama is practically begging the majority to get up and actively show support for real health care reform. It is a test. It's a test to see whether we'll stand up, and Obama went all-in on it. So get off your blogging ass and help a brother out.
Business wants you to be disgruntled and politically inactive. And so, it works if you give up on the Democrats, or any representative. This isn't over yet. I believe Obama is practically begging the majority to get up and actively show support for real health care reform. It is a test. It's a test to see whether we'll stand up, and Obama went all-in on it. So get off your blogging ass and help a brother out.
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