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News & ArtsTuesday, August 11, 2009
Politics They're Trying to Get Him Killed
Posted by Dan Savage on Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 9:13 AM
No one is going to be surprised—although Fox News anchors will fake it—when some nut takes a shot at the president to save Sarah Palin's baby from Obama's "death panel" and the rest of us from "socializm," right?
1
Jesus, Dan, you've been obsessed about this for over a year now. OK, I admit that I'm a little surprised that no-one's taken a shot at him by now too, but crikey, just relax already - it's probably not gonna happen.
2
I have to agree with @1, seriously this obsession is on the verge of being sick. And almost to the point of being a self fullfilling prophecy. If it does happen it happens and that's why we have a vice President.
And frankly if it does happen that means Biden will win in a landslide in 2012 (ie. see Johnson's victory in 1964)
And frankly if it does happen that means Biden will win in a landslide in 2012 (ie. see Johnson's victory in 1964)
3
asshole prob had an open-carry permit and thought he was making a point about liberty - like someone carrying 4 extra pounds on the STP in the form of a handgun.
the president has REALLY good security.
the president has REALLY good security.
5
Until clicking on that story I hadn't really stopped to think about "President Biden".
The anti-Obama stuff is really taking on a life of its own. People who I would have thought were too sensible to fall for some of the "death panel" lies have been sending on emails stirring up the paranoia - signed Glen (I have to wonder if it is a forward from a Glen Beck group, but I'm afraid that if the answer is 'yes' then it will mean that someone in my extended family listens to those ramblings and takes them to heart).
The anti-Obama stuff is really taking on a life of its own. People who I would have thought were too sensible to fall for some of the "death panel" lies have been sending on emails stirring up the paranoia - signed Glen (I have to wonder if it is a forward from a Glen Beck group, but I'm afraid that if the answer is 'yes' then it will mean that someone in my extended family listens to those ramblings and takes them to heart).
6
It's a dare on the part of the teabaggers. If the "government" in the form of law enforcement or secret service do anything to him, they'll get to cry that Obama is taking away our constitutional rights. Local police have said that he's nowhere near the president and they're keeping their eyes on him.
My one concern is that someone will try to push the envelope further next time and someone will get hurt. Because that's really what the teabaggers want/need: a martyr.
My one concern is that someone will try to push the envelope further next time and someone will get hurt. Because that's really what the teabaggers want/need: a martyr.
8
It IS New Hampshire, Dan. If someone has an open carry, it is a 99% chance that it is a licensed firearm and the person is a responsible gun owner. If it is the 1% that is not and it is a nut, we will be reading about his brains being splattered on the ground by one of O's snipers. Besides, no one with a firearm is going to be allowed into the meeting.
10
As an FYI, New Hampshire has no gun laws whatsoever. Open or concealed carry, it's all the same, and it's all legal. They're one of the few places where "Live Free or Die" still means something any more.
By the way, Seattle has probably had more shootings than the entire state has so far this year.
By the way, Seattle has probably had more shootings than the entire state has so far this year.
12
yeah and the last time a President was martyred (Kennedy) the succeeding President (Johnson) browbeat a grieving and guilt ridden Congress to pass butt loads of progressive legislation...I don't the Republicans would kill any more presidents; they've learned their lesson that martyrdom will bite them in the ass.
13
That sign pictured at TPM at the link is scary as hell.
This is about 2 months after George Tiller's murder.
Sure we have presidential succession and protection,
but I'd like fewer endings like those of JFK and of
Jim Brady and the cop protecting Reagan.
This is about 2 months after George Tiller's murder.
Sure we have presidential succession and protection,
but I'd like fewer endings like those of JFK and of
Jim Brady and the cop protecting Reagan.
14
Let's start with the advertisers on FUX News. Whomever is financing the fascist fucks at FUX should lose some money. Don't you think?
15
Yes, by all means, let's talk about this asshole's rights. He's carrying a sign advocating the murder of the President, and he's carrying a fucking gun. Remember Gerald Ford? Remember Reagan? This fuckwad should have been taken down and dragged to the pokey the instant they set eyes on him. "Live Free or Die", my ass; it's against the law to advocate the murder of the President.
16
"My one concern is that someone will try to push the envelope further next time and someone will get hurt."
That's how mobs work, and this movement, whatever its ideals were once upon a time, has degenerated into a mob. They're egging each other on...the noise machine and its audience...edging ever closer and closer to the edge.
That's how mobs work, and this movement, whatever its ideals were once upon a time, has degenerated into a mob. They're egging each other on...the noise machine and its audience...edging ever closer and closer to the edge.
17
Glenn Beck has turned the John Birchers and the Prison Planet crowd mainstream. Whatever ways they're aware of the current political drek being thrown at us is SO FAR outshined by the crazy elements that I'm legitimately afraid for when Rush overdoses or has a heart attack and Beck takes over as the mainstream GOP "leader".
18
Oh, Fnarf, you're nothing if not entertaining. Even if you've allowed yourself to become a caricature on this issue. Thanks for the chuckle.
19
I find these sort of post irresponsible on the part of mr Savage. To even entertain the idea is reckless 'cause you know that there are crazies out there who hate him and are delusional motivated when they see stuff like this. Right now there's news of the secretive service keeping eyes on a lunatic with a gun outside the NH townhall meeting. It's not cool to be giving the nuts more ammunition and reasons to hate than they already have. Stop it mr Savage!
20
"...martyrdom will bite them in the ass."
Actually, they've learned how to turn tragic deaths to their advantage through lies and distortion. See: death of Paul Wellstone, election of Norm Coleman.
Actually, they've learned how to turn tragic deaths to their advantage through lies and distortion. See: death of Paul Wellstone, election of Norm Coleman.
21
definitely.
Dan is hoping one of his numerous desperate pathetic repressed fanboys will get the coded message and pop O.
Dan is hoping one of his numerous desperate pathetic repressed fanboys will get the coded message and pop O.
22
@15: the sign obliquely infers that killing the president is a good idea. but it has plausible deniability, which is the point, i think. the local po probably know this jagoff and think he's harmless.
23
...or shot by some crazed Promised-Land-expecting Obamabandoner Homosexual who read somewhere that Obama's campaign was nothing but a "One Night Stand"?
24
Give me a break - if you don't see the implicit threat in what this guy is doing, you're truly blind. He may be acting perfectly within the bounds of the law, just like Operation Rescue; but it takes just one unstable individual, fed on these images and the rantings of Beck, Limbaugh, and Hannity to decide that words and signs aren't enough.
I just hope that the Secret Service is on top of its game.
I just hope that the Secret Service is on top of its game.
25
Fuck you, 5280. The man is advocating murder, and he's conspicuously displaying a weapon. It's a deliberate provocation. This is exactly what you gun fucks dream about, isn't it? He's standing up for LIBBERTEE, isn't he? So fucking brave. Asshole.
26
Keep it up, Fnarf, you're getting more hilarious by the minute.
You know, I used to have a lot of respect for you. You werethe guy who was raging against plastic bags, and when I explained to you how they were an infinitessimal percentage of the problem, you actually listened.
Well, go ahead and continue being a cartoon character if that's what turns your crank, but life isn't a cartoon, and you've lost my respect (as well as that of quite a few other commenters here, apparently).
You know, I used to have a lot of respect for you. You werethe guy who was raging against plastic bags, and when I explained to you how they were an infinitessimal percentage of the problem, you actually listened.
Well, go ahead and continue being a cartoon character if that's what turns your crank, but life isn't a cartoon, and you've lost my respect (as well as that of quite a few other commenters here, apparently).
27
25
good gawd.
you liberals are moron pussies.
if he actually wanted to kill Obama would he "conspicuously displaying a weapon".
good gawd.
you liberals are moron pussies.
if he actually wanted to kill Obama would he "conspicuously displaying a weapon".
28
Steven, listen to me for a minute here. I'm not trying to piss you off.
Sure, there are gun nuts that are dingleberries. There are eco-nuts who are dingleberies. There are bicyclists who are dingleberries. There are vegans who are dingleberries (hi Lizzie!).
The fact that you're going through life judging an entire class of people on the basis of a few dingleberries makes you the dingleberry. Always has, always will.
As for myself, I know more gun owners than you will probably ever know in your entire life, and I have yet to have a problem with walking downrange of them while they're holding a loaded gun. Can you say the same about your friends?
Sure, there are gun nuts that are dingleberries. There are eco-nuts who are dingleberies. There are bicyclists who are dingleberries. There are vegans who are dingleberries (hi Lizzie!).
The fact that you're going through life judging an entire class of people on the basis of a few dingleberries makes you the dingleberry. Always has, always will.
As for myself, I know more gun owners than you will probably ever know in your entire life, and I have yet to have a problem with walking downrange of them while they're holding a loaded gun. Can you say the same about your friends?
29
Just to repeat -- the man was nowhere near the president. He doing nothing illegal, just being provocative and riling up the liberals (yes, me too). It's the media, yet again, spinning it into a larger issue. In this case, TPM only mentioning that the man "is nowhere near where the President will be, and is 'under constant surveillance.'" in a second update to the original post. Of COURSE it's going to rile us up if we think the guy's right there in the president's path ready to pull a Sirhan Sirhan. But that's not the case.
And Dan furthered the misinformation when he could have taken a less sensationalist, but also less click-through-worthy, version of events.
And Dan furthered the misinformation when he could have taken a less sensationalist, but also less click-through-worthy, version of events.
30
I don't care what anyone's stance on gun rights are, walking around with a gun anywhere near where a President is going to speak is just goddamn stupid and deserving at least of a good "Dope Slap" (a la Car Talk).
31
Laterite, crank the Wayback Machine up for 1984. I was in the Tattered Cover bookstore in downtown Denver when Bill Clinton walked in.
I had a (legal) gun concealed on me. The Secret Service went fucking ballistic, but never patted down/wanded any of the customers. Unbelievably, Bill actually pulled me aside and we spent about 15 minutes chatting in the overstuffed chairs in the children's section - while I had a .45 on my hip.
No, I didn't shoot him. And we've actually been fairly good friends ever since. Though we'll never agree on guns, in spite of all that.
I had a (legal) gun concealed on me. The Secret Service went fucking ballistic, but never patted down/wanded any of the customers. Unbelievably, Bill actually pulled me aside and we spent about 15 minutes chatting in the overstuffed chairs in the children's section - while I had a .45 on my hip.
No, I didn't shoot him. And we've actually been fairly good friends ever since. Though we'll never agree on guns, in spite of all that.
32
5280, no one is arguing that just because you carry a gun you're a psychotic asshole. But surely as someone who stands up for the rights of responsible gun owners, you must admit that this guy is a "dingleberry" who makes responsible gun owners look bad?
If you called this guy out for his obviously irresponsible actions and threatening presence (and come on, I know you can see this: presidential appearance + furious, irrational haters + guy with that sign and a gun = threat), then anyone condemning gun owners in general would immediately be disarmed. Instead, you're so defensive that it looks like you can't tell the difference. Show us you can distinguish between the freaks and the responsible people, and you'll sound a lot more credible to your critics.
And, for the record, "it's probably not gonna happen" doesn't cut it for me here. When people said they wished GW Bush were dead, I think most agreed that it probably wouldn't happen. But Obama? I'd say it's a justifiable concern.
If you called this guy out for his obviously irresponsible actions and threatening presence (and come on, I know you can see this: presidential appearance + furious, irrational haters + guy with that sign and a gun = threat), then anyone condemning gun owners in general would immediately be disarmed. Instead, you're so defensive that it looks like you can't tell the difference. Show us you can distinguish between the freaks and the responsible people, and you'll sound a lot more credible to your critics.
And, for the record, "it's probably not gonna happen" doesn't cut it for me here. When people said they wished GW Bush were dead, I think most agreed that it probably wouldn't happen. But Obama? I'd say it's a justifiable concern.
33
I would not be surprised.
Of course if someone does, the fringe right thwarts the will of god that gave us the antichrist (snicker snicker). Then they'll all have to go back to the drawing board and re-interpret Revelations. Because they do need a horrible prophecy of an apocalypse to stay satisfied throughout the rest of their lives. Isn't that nice?
Of course if someone does, the fringe right thwarts the will of god that gave us the antichrist (snicker snicker). Then they'll all have to go back to the drawing board and re-interpret Revelations. Because they do need a horrible prophecy of an apocalypse to stay satisfied throughout the rest of their lives. Isn't that nice?
34
Wonder if anyone ever showed up for a GW Bush event packing heat. Do you suppose the cops would have been all second amendment nice if some lefty was carrying a loaded weapon?
35
@26, you're confused. I was not "the guy raving against plastic bags", and I didn't listen to you explaining they were a small part of the problem. I was expounding that point of view earlier and more cogently than you.
In this particular case I'm not talking about "all gun owners", though itchy bitches like you ALWAYS think your pet amendment is the focus of every conversation. I'm saying an asshole walking around near the president with a sign advocating the murder of the president and a fucking gun on his hip -- obviously displayed for everyone to see -- should be taken away, and can be without violating anybody's rights, not even his.
But no. For you, that quote is what being an American is all about, because you live in a fantasy world where handguns wielded by tough, silent types like those who Won The West are the only thing standing between us and tyranny. THAT'S BULLSHIT. Your worldview is bullshit. I'm sorry.
It doesn't have anything to do with your amendment or what kind of firearm you're packing or who your studly friends are or which way the wind is blowing. You think you're practicing a defense against tyranny. You're full of shit. This is not a legal question.
As for who's a dingleberry and who isn't, the guy with the sign IS A DINGLEBERRY, full stop, and he should not be allowed to do what he's doing.
In this particular case I'm not talking about "all gun owners", though itchy bitches like you ALWAYS think your pet amendment is the focus of every conversation. I'm saying an asshole walking around near the president with a sign advocating the murder of the president and a fucking gun on his hip -- obviously displayed for everyone to see -- should be taken away, and can be without violating anybody's rights, not even his.
But no. For you, that quote is what being an American is all about, because you live in a fantasy world where handguns wielded by tough, silent types like those who Won The West are the only thing standing between us and tyranny. THAT'S BULLSHIT. Your worldview is bullshit. I'm sorry.
It doesn't have anything to do with your amendment or what kind of firearm you're packing or who your studly friends are or which way the wind is blowing. You think you're practicing a defense against tyranny. You're full of shit. This is not a legal question.
As for who's a dingleberry and who isn't, the guy with the sign IS A DINGLEBERRY, full stop, and he should not be allowed to do what he's doing.
37
@28: I know a lot of gun-carriers, too. And if any of them took their gun with them to a Presidential event, along with a sign not-so-vaguely advocating the spilling of his "tyrant" blood, I would tell them that they were nuts.
The fact that his actions are somewhat legal doesn't make them sane. If anyone's a cartoon character here, it's that guy. The fact that we're his "fellow" gun-owners shouldn't disable us from admitting how batshit crazy and irresponsible he's being. Owning a gun doesn't put us in some bond of brotherhood with this asshole. If he does something stupid (however legal) with his gun, we can call him on it, especially if we want to convince anyone that there exist sane gun-owners.
Defending someone who is this obviously nuts, though, makes no sense no matter what you do or don't carry around in your pockets.
The fact that his actions are somewhat legal doesn't make them sane. If anyone's a cartoon character here, it's that guy. The fact that we're his "fellow" gun-owners shouldn't disable us from admitting how batshit crazy and irresponsible he's being. Owning a gun doesn't put us in some bond of brotherhood with this asshole. If he does something stupid (however legal) with his gun, we can call him on it, especially if we want to convince anyone that there exist sane gun-owners.
Defending someone who is this obviously nuts, though, makes no sense no matter what you do or don't carry around in your pockets.
38
Fifty-Two-Eighty,
Love, we know you're not a "dingleberry", and are responsible gun owner. This guy on the other hand is acting like a major "dingleberry", and not impressing us with any sense of responsibility or moral compass. Okay. Fnarf, has a point. Try and remember we all see things though the lens of our lives. Both you and Fnarf are seeing this through dramatically different lenses. Just keep that in mind, okay.
Take care, flirt.
Love, we know you're not a "dingleberry", and are responsible gun owner. This guy on the other hand is acting like a major "dingleberry", and not impressing us with any sense of responsibility or moral compass. Okay. Fnarf, has a point. Try and remember we all see things though the lens of our lives. Both you and Fnarf are seeing this through dramatically different lenses. Just keep that in mind, okay.
Take care, flirt.
39
Dan, haven't you seen Bulworth? If Obama's gunned down over health care it won't be by some Fox News loving whackjob who thinks he destroying 'merica, it'll be by a hitman hired by a major executive from a health insurance corp.
41
I have to agree with michael strangeways @12. The last president that died in office was so missed that his successor got bunches of civil rights legislation and put us on the moon. If big-O got himself assassinated in office, he'd become a legendary martyr for the democratic party and for the African American communities, like a mix between JFK and MLK. We'd not only get healthcare reform out of it, but gay marriage and openly gay service in the military.
That said, Mr. Liberty Tree is in my opinion, a crackpot dingleberry. Yes, he may indeed be acting within the law of New Hampshire. But he's also being impolite by disrupting the peace, presenting himself as a potential threat to others, especially VIPs in the area (since a harmless wackjob cannot be trusted to stay harmless), and worsening the jobs of the Secret Service guys who have to keep an eye on him, while scanning for less visible targets. At very least, he's the epileptic guy seizing on the Houston Street street esplanade.
That said, Mr. Liberty Tree is in my opinion, a crackpot dingleberry. Yes, he may indeed be acting within the law of New Hampshire. But he's also being impolite by disrupting the peace, presenting himself as a potential threat to others, especially VIPs in the area (since a harmless wackjob cannot be trusted to stay harmless), and worsening the jobs of the Secret Service guys who have to keep an eye on him, while scanning for less visible targets. At very least, he's the epileptic guy seizing on the Houston Street street esplanade.
42
My only experience up-close to a president was sometime around '98, I think, (Bill Clinton) and I was shocked by the poor security: He was campaigning for Simms on a stage at the Pike Place Market, and they had sealed off both sides of the block with metal detectors and tight security for the crowd to enter, but I worked in the second story across the street, and entered (as I normally would) through the alley above -- no security. I watched the whole thing from maybe 25 feet away, with a clear sight to the president, above the crowd, I didn't turn on the light, since I didn't want to call attention to myself, but I did open the windows to hear the speeches.
I really hope the secret service has improved since then.
I really hope the secret service has improved since then.
43
People are allowed to be intimidating assholes. Liberty may be abused, even when it scares other people and they don't like it.
44
If any of y'all had ever watched Glen Beck you would no that he would never advocate violence and he isn't a republican. He is pissed with BOTH parties. And as has been pointed out ad nauseaum the man was NO WHERE NEAR THE PRESIDENT. Jesus Christ, calm down people.
45
lol Glen Beck is just a doughy white boy who cries and feels oppressed because he can't call his neighbor a nigger anymore.
46
@42
I can pretty much guarantee that a Secret Service detail was watching you and had a rifle trained on you the whole time. Not in the sense that they were itching to blow your head off or anything, but they were almost certainly watching and ready to go if something went pear-shaped. Since '63 those events have a sniper/countersniper footprint of about half a mile and they generally don't skimp on the manpower.
I can pretty much guarantee that a Secret Service detail was watching you and had a rifle trained on you the whole time. Not in the sense that they were itching to blow your head off or anything, but they were almost certainly watching and ready to go if something went pear-shaped. Since '63 those events have a sniper/countersniper footprint of about half a mile and they generally don't skimp on the manpower.
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