Slog
News & ArtsThursday, August 6, 2009
News "I just assumed he was gay.”
Posted by Dan Savage on Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 8:29 AM
The New York Times talks to George Sodini's neighbors. And Slog tipper Mark points us to Sodini's YouTube videos.
1
Legalize prostitution. This guy could've called some hot escort to give him some temporary companionship and either a BJ or a good fuck. Someone like her could've told him he's good looking and give him a boost of self esteem to actually go out and find a woman to date him.
Again, this could've been easily avoided if prostitution was legalized and not ostracized in this country.
Again, this could've been easily avoided if prostitution was legalized and not ostracized in this country.
4
To #2, no self-respecting gay man would have that hideous livingroom furniture, nor use speakers as end-tables, nor have a computer or a "big" screen TV on the livingroom. Since when is 32 inches considered "big" for TVs?
5
@1: His ability to find temporary companionship was the result of his being broken; a quick BJ and insincere compliments from a prostitute weren't going to fix him.
10
Can't blame them for thinking that, come to think of it anyone who had seen that house and how everything was so neat and in order without a lady around would've arrive at the same conclusion.
1 It's not as if he couldn't get to NV and visit a house of ill repute (if he truly wanted) instead of as 3 said being so self absorbed and making youtube videos.
1 It's not as if he couldn't get to NV and visit a house of ill repute (if he truly wanted) instead of as 3 said being so self absorbed and making youtube videos.
11
Jeez, what a sad guy. Doesn't seem terribly freaky or deeply disturbed/psychotic, just got the wrong idea about life and love in his head decades ago and never managed to get it out.
12
Was this man alone because he was broken, or broken because he was alone? Either or both could be the case, it's impossible to know.
I do think 20 years of involuntary celibacy would turn most men into socially inept creeps.
I do think 20 years of involuntary celibacy would turn most men into socially inept creeps.
13
@10.. ahh loveschild.i haven't spoken to you in awhile but .i still see that you're still as stupid as fuck. geez ...
14
@10 Please don't agree with me. And Nevada? Are you crazy? There are plenty of prostitutes in Pennsylvania. But really, Dan, could we please hear about his victims and not about him anymore? He's disgusting.
15
Also, after having viewed more videos, he reminds me of the Michael Douglas character in Falling Down. Everything in it's place, etc. He was relying on everything but himself to land a woman; the women will be really impressed that his couch and loveseat match, really?
17
I have some friends who are very good looking who have visited hookers. Think Hugh Grant. They can get women but they don't want to bother or they want some action in the next couple hours so they pay and grab it.
For SOME of us who have less success with women a prostitute is utterly besides the point. If I've gone without for a year and I hate myself and women, PAYING for it merely drives home the point that I'm a loser.
For SOME of us who have less success with women a prostitute is utterly besides the point. If I've gone without for a year and I hate myself and women, PAYING for it merely drives home the point that I'm a loser.
18
I think this guy hated women. Not that he was gay or anything, but that he loathed women for not wanting him and making him happy. They could smell that on him and were turned off and rightfully stayed away. And since he was unable to change his life to make himself happy and attractive, he had to use a gun and change the lives of everyone else and make them unhappy. I wonder if anything could have really been done to change the outcome here. Probably not.
19
@1 That actually won't solve anything. In fact, he may start killing hookers and dumping their bodies in rivers!
@17 I agree. Using a prostitute will just further elevate his self esteem problems, causing him to hate women, and then possibly leading to serial murder.
@17 I agree. Using a prostitute will just further elevate his self esteem problems, causing him to hate women, and then possibly leading to serial murder.
20
"Was this man alone because he was broken, or broken because he was alone?"
Absolutely aAlone because he was broken. There are plenty of guys uglier than him with wives and girlfriends.
Absolutely aAlone because he was broken. There are plenty of guys uglier than him with wives and girlfriends.
21
Read the blog. It totally explains why he couldn't find someone to connect to. He ogles young women and objectifies them in such a way, that he must have been unable to hide it.
While he probably just thought he was admiring their hotness, he was terribly disrespectful to women. From what I read, he really had no emotions, and no understanding of what a "relationship" was about. I think he thought because he was okay looking and doing okay at work, etc. that some young hottie should just want to attach herself to him and would just live in his house and do the "women work" and be available for sex and he didn't have to do anything to deserve that.
While he probably just thought he was admiring their hotness, he was terribly disrespectful to women. From what I read, he really had no emotions, and no understanding of what a "relationship" was about. I think he thought because he was okay looking and doing okay at work, etc. that some young hottie should just want to attach herself to him and would just live in his house and do the "women work" and be available for sex and he didn't have to do anything to deserve that.
22
@20 your point disregards the fact that in the past the guy did have girlfriends, and wasn't broken his whole life. Most likely, the two (loneliness and brokenness) fed into each other. He got lonely and desperate, and his desperation made him lonelier, and over the years he just got more broken and more alone.
23
Was anyone else bothered by the fact that things looked too tidy and too clean. It just screamed controlling personality. Throughout the "home tour" video I kept getting the impression of how easily he could have been the type of killer who takes a victim home and disposes of the body on his property, rather than being an explosive mass murderer.
That was just all around creepy. Not to mention how he was referring to "the lady" in such a way that gave the distinct impression that a woman was a possession or pet and that he was showing off how she'd love her new cage ...er, home.
That was just all around creepy. Not to mention how he was referring to "the lady" in such a way that gave the distinct impression that a woman was a possession or pet and that he was showing off how she'd love her new cage ...er, home.
26
@10, there is nothing a man with a clean house wants more than a big hard cock. It is a good thing I have several months worth of old pizza boxes stacked next to my couch to get the ladies excited.
27
hmmm... i don't think gary ridgeway was the same as this guy. this guy was lonely and broken. gary ridgeway (strangely enough) was able to get actual girlfriends.
i don't know that prostitutes would have helped this guy. i have the feeling it could have been worse for him, if he thought that made him a loser, and if he couldn't connect to any of the escorts he visited.
on the other hand, i don't think that if he started visited hookers he would have ended up killing a bunch of them over a twenty-year period. who know for sure, though?
this guy did need to interact with women in a healthy way. dan supposes sex workers might have accomplished this. maybe.
i don't know that prostitutes would have helped this guy. i have the feeling it could have been worse for him, if he thought that made him a loser, and if he couldn't connect to any of the escorts he visited.
on the other hand, i don't think that if he started visited hookers he would have ended up killing a bunch of them over a twenty-year period. who know for sure, though?
this guy did need to interact with women in a healthy way. dan supposes sex workers might have accomplished this. maybe.
28
He was an unfeeling sociopath. He talks like he is reading from a book. He wants to get from "A", where he is at, to "B", a woman in his bed without all the inbetween stuff.
30
@21 the type of guy you describe usually goes to craigslist and looks for "traditional" wives from asian countries. Question is, why didn't he?
31
Wow, he seems creepy and very controlling. He obviously wanted a woman so he could have a "thing" around. "Oh the women will be so impressed." "Look at what a great job I did in my basement." This guy seems to be completely unhappy with himself. If you can't love yourself, you can't love anyone else! So true in this case. I would run run run away from that guy.
32
I always question whether he couldn't get ANYONE or just not someone young and hot as he wanted. Maybe he did have opportunities but dissmissed interested women because they were not young or very good looking. There is a difference between not being able to get ANYONE at all (which he seemed to claim) and being unable to get someone 20 years younger than you that looks like a supermodel.
I would be curious to know if he tried internet dating or the personals. I'm not a big fan of either but until you try these it is unreasonable to say you are alone through no fault of your own.
I once saw an ad in the Stranger personals where some guy who was middle aged wanted someone 19-24 and "super model quality". I still remember that quote and it was a few years ago. I get the feeling that is something this guy was expecting too.
I would be curious to know if he tried internet dating or the personals. I'm not a big fan of either but until you try these it is unreasonable to say you are alone through no fault of your own.
I once saw an ad in the Stranger personals where some guy who was middle aged wanted someone 19-24 and "super model quality". I still remember that quote and it was a few years ago. I get the feeling that is something this guy was expecting too.
33
What strange comments.
He obviously was warped (he was a murderer), but the video of his house is very plain. He has normal, average taste and his commenting sounds like typical "put my best foot forward" babble that I've heard a million times.
And why would anyone say he was gay? I see nothing of gayness about him. I suppose having a binary system (straight like me or must be gay) would limit conclusions.
He obviously was warped (he was a murderer), but the video of his house is very plain. He has normal, average taste and his commenting sounds like typical "put my best foot forward" babble that I've heard a million times.
And why would anyone say he was gay? I see nothing of gayness about him. I suppose having a binary system (straight like me or must be gay) would limit conclusions.
35
His claim that 30 million women rejected him sealed the deal for me. I think he was waiting for the perfect woman to fall into his lap, and when she failed to, he blamed all women for "rejecting" him. You can't be rejected if you don't make an effort.
I mentioned this elsewhere, but I'm certain he would have murdered someone even if he had been more successful with women. If a woman failed to be the perfect companion he thought he deserved and, worst of all, dumped him, I'd put good odds on him killing her.
I mentioned this elsewhere, but I'm certain he would have murdered someone even if he had been more successful with women. If a woman failed to be the perfect companion he thought he deserved and, worst of all, dumped him, I'd put good odds on him killing her.
36
And as far as people assuming he's gay, he seems to have that obsession with looks that some (repeat, some) gay men have. It's pretty rare to see straight men who keep themselves up that obsessively.
37
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD! @ 17-21 and some of the other later comments, THANKYOU for having some SENSE. its admirable, but simply not realistic to feel sorry for everybody, and just plain dangerous to make excuses for people like this. its possible, but unlikely that he could have been rehabilitated with VERY intense therapy but certainly not by seeing hookers (and i totally support legalizing that) or people just being nicer to him. the man was without a doubt alone because he was not merely broken, but DEEPLY disturbed. he KNEW he was good looking- and he WAS good looking (im a straight woman). he didnt need compliments. women probably WERE nice to him, some of them may even have shown interest in him, and he probably interpreted it as some sort of slight, or condescension. that is the kind of man, as others have pointed out, who just would have murdered prostitutes because he would somehow blame them by some twisted logic i cant even describe. 30 million women rejected him? that guy could be a psych case study! yeesh.
38
I don' t get why he didn't go after the guy who wrote the book....he's the one who really instilled the inadequacy.
39
@30
Perhaps he was also a racist?
Otherwise, good question. I really feel like he had a sense of entitlement, or better yet he wanted an attractive young women to see him and WANT him, or in other words to choose him, rather than him choosing someone. I think he wanted it to be someone who had other options, too, as a further form of validation. But who knows???
Hopefully, someone will discover a much more detailed hand written journal or more videos or something!
Perhaps he was also a racist?
Otherwise, good question. I really feel like he had a sense of entitlement, or better yet he wanted an attractive young women to see him and WANT him, or in other words to choose him, rather than him choosing someone. I think he wanted it to be someone who had other options, too, as a further form of validation. But who knows???
Hopefully, someone will discover a much more detailed hand written journal or more videos or something!
41
@ 40 Why was it depressing? Because he was too much of a nut job to go get professional help for himself? No one else is to blame for actions but himself. When I was single I had a table set for ONE unless I had friends coming over. Why create a tangible fallacy? Why remind yourself that you have no one else to sit and eat dinner with? Just to piss yourself off? He probably read that in one of his books: "make your bed with two pillows if you want to attract a mate" or some other kind of new agey babble. The table set for two causes me to think that he was seriously mentally ill to the point of creating narcissistic delusions of grandeur, not simply fantasizing or sulking about an unrequited love.
42
@41 It's obvious that he was seriously ill w/ some form of mental illness and that is plain sad and , in my mind, deserving of empathy. It's horrible that killed 3 other people and I'm not forgiving it, but he thought it was doing the right things and he was failing himself. Some wingnut was exploiting him and telling him what to do and he honestly thought it would help. You can hear the strain and desperation in his voice that he was at the end of his rope.
43
@ 42 I feel you on the empathy (my sister and two close friends have been diagnosed bi-polar and delusional, respectively) but if one has that many problems it really is their responsibility to seek help. The guy had been planning the murders for months, possible years. He was capable of holding down a steady job and owned a home and a car. He should have went to get some help for himself once he realized he was planning the murders. I mean, they guy was crazy but not discognizant- he "chickened out" the first time, indicating that he knew what he was planning was morally wrong. Obviously he shunned his family and hid his issues from his acquaintances. Despite my lack of empathy for the killer, I do think that its a damn shame that these kinds of situations exist for folks with no support system, and are left to manifest themselves on society.
44
In my opinion he was disturbed, likely a sociopath, narcissistic, and possibly OCD. I've met men who come across like he does in his video, who have homes like his, and who have battered wives with plastic smiles pasted on their faces and clothes to hide the bruises. I wish he had found help.
46
@30: "the type of guy you describe usually goes to craigslist and looks for "traditional" wives from asian countries. Question is, why didn't he?"
I suggest you read the online forums for men seeking mail-order brides before you imply this was a solution. American men who go to Russia, Latin America and Asia to buy wives are some of the angriest around, with entitlement issues similar to this guy's. Case in point was the Anastasia King murder. Most of these guys are 50+, physically out of shape, divorced three times and blame feminism for it, and are angry that 22-year-old American women aren't falling all over themselves to date such great catches. The female-bashing on such forums is epic, with the initials "AB" used as an abbreviation for American women. It's not hard to guess what the B is.
I suggest you read the online forums for men seeking mail-order brides before you imply this was a solution. American men who go to Russia, Latin America and Asia to buy wives are some of the angriest around, with entitlement issues similar to this guy's. Case in point was the Anastasia King murder. Most of these guys are 50+, physically out of shape, divorced three times and blame feminism for it, and are angry that 22-year-old American women aren't falling all over themselves to date such great catches. The female-bashing on such forums is epic, with the initials "AB" used as an abbreviation for American women. It's not hard to guess what the B is.
47
@19: I've heard the personality profile for serial killers that target women, and he definitely fits the bill. A socially awkward person who feels that women reject him. With all that rejection, they start to resent women, which drives them to start killing women.
49
@25—Exactly! Can we have some sex workers chime in on this matter? Prostitutes get murdered/raped/beaten by self-loathing women-haters all the time. Please stop sending psychos to sex workers. Their job is to blow, not cure sociopaths.
50
This guy was schizophrenic. Under fucking stand? He was nuts. His brain was broken. What he needed was a mental health doctor, but we don't have those in the U.S.A. any more. Not any anybody I know can afford anyway.
Oh wait, you're right, he was employed by a company, so he had health insurance, so in fact he could have managed to pay the American health professional's vast and exorbitant bills, not to mention the sky high pharmacy toll.
Right. He could have gone to a psychiatrist to get treatment for suffering acute insanity, and had the bills for this treatment forwarded to the accounting department of the company where he works. At least for a month or two before he got fired.
Oh wait, you're right, he was employed by a company, so he had health insurance, so in fact he could have managed to pay the American health professional's vast and exorbitant bills, not to mention the sky high pharmacy toll.
Right. He could have gone to a psychiatrist to get treatment for suffering acute insanity, and had the bills for this treatment forwarded to the accounting department of the company where he works. At least for a month or two before he got fired.
51
First of all....am I the only straight man on the planet that cleans his house on a daily basis...and who cleans his house EVEN MORE before company is coming over?
He was filming a video of his home to put on youtube for the ladies (that part....is crazy....) so of course he would tody up....if you ask me his house was a fucking MESS. But I have OCD......I can't even have my DVD's un-alphabetized...
As far as him getting help before he murdered people...That statement is just about as retarded as saying he's gay because his house was clean. By saying he needed to get help you are acknowledging the fact that he was sick...crazy people do not have a tendancy to think that they are crazy....usually they think everyone else is crazy...so why would he get help? He doesn't need it according to him...it's all THEIR FAULT.
And as for whether or not he was just being picky or what....it's a moot point.
He had no self confidence....he exuded low self esteem...women see that, and they smile and nod and then walk away fast...or they give you the let's be friends line.
I'm socially awkward....I have a hard time talking to girls....I have a clean house...I pluck in between my eyebrows because I have a caveman problem there....I have a punching bag because I tend to punch walls when I get pissed off, so I hit the punching bag instead....
That doesn't mean I am going to kill anyone. That doesn't mean I am gay. And it didn't mean it for him either....he killed people because he was sick and twisted in the head...just a TAD bit more than I am. Cause holy FUCK have I wanted to kill a couple of Seattle's Earth friendly bicyclists lately....but I don't. Because I am sane, and he was not.
He was filming a video of his home to put on youtube for the ladies (that part....is crazy....) so of course he would tody up....if you ask me his house was a fucking MESS. But I have OCD......I can't even have my DVD's un-alphabetized...
As far as him getting help before he murdered people...That statement is just about as retarded as saying he's gay because his house was clean. By saying he needed to get help you are acknowledging the fact that he was sick...crazy people do not have a tendancy to think that they are crazy....usually they think everyone else is crazy...so why would he get help? He doesn't need it according to him...it's all THEIR FAULT.
And as for whether or not he was just being picky or what....it's a moot point.
He had no self confidence....he exuded low self esteem...women see that, and they smile and nod and then walk away fast...or they give you the let's be friends line.
I'm socially awkward....I have a hard time talking to girls....I have a clean house...I pluck in between my eyebrows because I have a caveman problem there....I have a punching bag because I tend to punch walls when I get pissed off, so I hit the punching bag instead....
That doesn't mean I am going to kill anyone. That doesn't mean I am gay. And it didn't mean it for him either....he killed people because he was sick and twisted in the head...just a TAD bit more than I am. Cause holy FUCK have I wanted to kill a couple of Seattle's Earth friendly bicyclists lately....but I don't. Because I am sane, and he was not.
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