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News & ArtsTuesday, July 28, 2009
Architecture Some People
Posted by Charles Mudede on Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 5:04 PM
Best thing about the new Olympic Javelin trains is exactly what some people do not like about them:
These trains are coolly stylish. Too cool, perhaps, for some. A number of those who have ridden on the Javelins say that their interiors are too stark: seats do not line up with windows, lighting is antiseptic. There is no provision for catering. The standard-class interiors have been designed to resemble efficient inter-city jet airliner cabins, making maximum use of space and with no concessions to design conceits. This is no-frills railway travel.We must not make living rooms out of public space. To do so is to follow a path that leads directly to Starbuck's "third space" (the relocation of the living room from the home to the cafe). The Victorians understood that private space was not the same as public space, and so their rooms were padded with all sorts of plush things: pretty paintings, purple pillows, the heavy curtains, thick love seats. Public space cannot be anything but the opposite of this type of cocooning of the self. It must be smooth and stark. It must not be cultural but efficient. Particularities meet a space that is unresponsive. You take your seat not as an individual but as a piece of information—a ticket number, a point of departure, a destination.
This picture is by Nick Taylor.
1
Really? That's funny, because as the city becomes more and more gentrified, our private space is less and less liveable. I don't know about you, but it's pretty hard to find room for much in 1070 square feet shared by three people.
Public spaces need to be comforting in a city. Especially mass transit, otherwise people will just get back in their escalades.
Public spaces need to be comforting in a city. Especially mass transit, otherwise people will just get back in their escalades.
3
The "Victorians", Charles? Interesting lot, built lovely houses, but a bit repressed, wouldn't you say?
4
I agree with him; I like taking the best bits and pieces of things to use for something. Problem is, when you start using them for EVERYTHING, you run into problems. Societal bugs, if you will.
5
You want to kill railway travel? Make it a slower version of an airplane.
I am a regular Amtrak rider, particularly between Seattle and Portland, but there is no way I'd take the train if there wasn't a lounge car.
Indeed, when the late Southern Pacific Railroad was trying to kill their once luxurious and popular west coast trains, they replaced the food service with vending machines. Ridership fell off immediately.
The truth is trains ARE communal, and they depend on breathing room as one of their amenities.
I am a regular Amtrak rider, particularly between Seattle and Portland, but there is no way I'd take the train if there wasn't a lounge car.
Indeed, when the late Southern Pacific Railroad was trying to kill their once luxurious and popular west coast trains, they replaced the food service with vending machines. Ridership fell off immediately.
The truth is trains ARE communal, and they depend on breathing room as one of their amenities.
6
The most liveable cities have a way of making themselves an extension of your living room. Every bar, eatery, coffee shop is a comfortable and social space for hanging out with friends, since your actual home is a shoe box.
Should that apply to transit too ? I dunno.
Should that apply to transit too ? I dunno.
7
Oh, and not to get too hopelessly train-nerdy here, but Amtrak had a minimalist line of cars made back in the 70's. They are called the "horizon fleet" and people HATE them. They are terrible cars to ride in: their interiors are too stark, seats do not line up with windows, lighting is antiseptic.
They are slowly being renovated and made into something nicer to ride on. As it stands, they are the cars of last resort - the sort of thing Amtrak drags out to run between Seattle and Portland on Thanksgiving weekend.
They are slowly being renovated and made into something nicer to ride on. As it stands, they are the cars of last resort - the sort of thing Amtrak drags out to run between Seattle and Portland on Thanksgiving weekend.
8
Um... Have you ever seen pictures of Victorian public spaces (particlularily trains and train stations) in thier original state? We're talking over stuffed, tuffted, brocaded, carved wood, stain glass and potted palm filled spaces very heavy on ornamentation. Go take a look at the re-emerging ceiling in the King Street Station...
You're just pulling this shit out of your ass now aren't you?
You're just pulling this shit out of your ass now aren't you?
10
There's a big difference between a public space that you're confined to and a public space you can leave any time you want.
Plus-- People aren't going to say, "I've already arrived at my destination, but I think I'm going to hang out on the train for a few more hours... just because it's so comfortable."
Plus-- People aren't going to say, "I've already arrived at my destination, but I think I'm going to hang out on the train for a few more hours... just because it's so comfortable."
11
@10 I'll concede that it's a rare case, but if it's over 90 degrees inside your destination, you might be a bit more willing to hang out on the train.
12
The train's starkness is probably just a matter of economy, given they were installed to shuttle as many people to London's 2012 games at a time as possible.
I agree with you that we shouldn't make living rooms out of public space, living rooms are boring and usually tacky. Public space is best used when used as you would front porches, or back yards, or kitchens.
If it's any consolation, most of America, with their "dream kitchen" fetishes and knack for high fences, agrees with you're feelings of "cocooning", but probably splits the difference on your thoughts on efficiency.
I agree with you that we shouldn't make living rooms out of public space, living rooms are boring and usually tacky. Public space is best used when used as you would front porches, or back yards, or kitchens.
If it's any consolation, most of America, with their "dream kitchen" fetishes and knack for high fences, agrees with you're feelings of "cocooning", but probably splits the difference on your thoughts on efficiency.
13
@1 If you worked harder you could have that 1070 square feet to yourself. Please, let's not expect the public to pay for your luxury.
16
I think I'll wait for either the Aboriginal Boomerang or the Whale Penis train (not sure what direction they're headed).
18
Charles I can find, if they are still available online, articles where you had the exact opposite arguement. Specifically the article about 3rd places(not home, not work). I'm not a hater, but please. You are contradicting yourself.
21
Dese trains is waaay coo'ly stylish. Lop some boogie. Too waaay coo', puh'haps, fo' some. A numba' of dose who gots ridden on de Javelins say dat deir interio's is too stark, dig dis: seats do not line down wid windows, lightin' be antiseptic. Co' got d' beat! Dere be no provision fo' caterin'. De standard-class interio's gots been designed t'resemble efficient inter-city jet airlina' cabins, makin' maximum use uh space and wid no concessions t'design conceits. Dis be no-frills railway travel.
23
Charles -- you've got no clue. Have you ridden any real trains? Say, intercity European trains? Cattle car travel is not a solution to the transportation mess we're in.
24
There's a reason why in Germany the newer ICE 3 trains have more space per passenger, are less like no frills airlines, offer more seats with tables (i.e. 2 vs 2 with a table inbetween), offer more power outlets, still have bistro as well as restaurant cars, offer more space for your luggage (it's not just business travellers with a small suitcase using them), offer seperate compartments for families, and will soon also offer space to bring your bike with you.
Designing long distance trains to resemble no-frill airlines (while keeping the high fares) was a dead end, and thankfully the Deutsche Bahn has recognized this.
I guess the American train companies will just have to make the same mistakes again.
Designing long distance trains to resemble no-frill airlines (while keeping the high fares) was a dead end, and thankfully the Deutsche Bahn has recognized this.
I guess the American train companies will just have to make the same mistakes again.
25
So if public space is, to you, a dehumanizing kind of efficiency, what exactly does it have to recommend itself?
Also, what about the role of public space in civics? Is the political concept of the public sphere just something that should be subsumed under your starkly aestheticized view of what public space ought to be?
Also, what about the role of public space in civics? Is the political concept of the public sphere just something that should be subsumed under your starkly aestheticized view of what public space ought to be?
26
Not a comment about trains but rather a correction: the "third space" that you've attributed to Starbucks is actually an idea from sociologist Ray Oldenburg. He wrote about it in his book "The Great Good Place" which is a study of the "third place" where people can gather and be social away from home (the first place) and work (the second place). Oldenburg argues the third place as an heart of community, although how applicable the idea is to public transportation is anyone's call.
27
Doesn't that way of thinking just encourage an ownership society and degrade the feelings of common ownership of the community?
28
In this pathetic age of online dating we need more public places for people to socialize.
I can go with what you're saying to a degree. I think public living rooms can be tacky but Starbucks is a poor example of one. In small towns - not close minded small towns - but in places other than Seattle, sitting and hanging out in a cafe or a barber shop is a great way to spend time with the community and meet people.
But I do love classy simple designs!
I can go with what you're saying to a degree. I think public living rooms can be tacky but Starbucks is a poor example of one. In small towns - not close minded small towns - but in places other than Seattle, sitting and hanging out in a cafe or a barber shop is a great way to spend time with the community and meet people.
But I do love classy simple designs!
29
your assertion that public space must be efficient rather than cultural is the first time you've actually offended me.
i think you're being ironic, and it's too hot for irony.
i think you're being ironic, and it's too hot for irony.
31
28, but a cafe is a social space that is distinctly not domestic. one goes to a cafe for an atmosphere that is different from the home.
public space should be about efficiency not luxury. home space is the enemy of public space and the environment. the more home space takes on the qualities of public space (the apartment building) the better is in environmental and socialist terms.
public space should be about efficiency not luxury. home space is the enemy of public space and the environment. the more home space takes on the qualities of public space (the apartment building) the better is in environmental and socialist terms.
32
Another problem with conceding to demands for more congenial public space is that it diminishes respect for authority. Workers must be reminded that transport does not exist for their convenience or pleasure, but to transfer them efficiently from their residential units to their assigned production facilities.
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