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News & ArtsThursday, July 23, 2009
Savage Love Savage Love Letter of the Day
Posted by Dan Savage on Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 3:41 PM
I'm the mom of a wonderful fifteen-year-old boy. Recently, my computer was down and he offered to let me use his. (You can see where this is going...) While searching for a website, an obvious porn site popped in the computer's history. I didn't want to embarrass him or make him feel ashamed or guilty, so I haven't mentioned it to him. I realize he's just responding to his natural curiosity, and that if he really wants to look at porn, he'll find a way to do it. I'm just concerned about the really extreme stuff like violence and bestiality. (I don't know if he's looked at any of this type of stuff, the thought just creeps me out.)Any suggestions as to how we should talk about this?
Clueless Mom
All you can do, mom, is go to him and say—in as upbeat and positive a tone as you can—that you know he's looking at porn, and that's fine, that it's healthy and normal. Then tell him that he needs to bear in mind that there's a lot of completely freaked out shit on the Internets and that he needs to careful about the sites he visits and the shit he downloads. He doesn't want to pick up malware on crappy Russian porn sites or wind up a site that features illegal activity—i.e. minors—and that he absolutely, positively shouldn't chat with people via porn sites or post or email pictures of himself to anyone who asks.
He's 15, CM, so if he's going to be into freaked out shit when he grows up—if he's going to be into violence or bestiality or whatever—then he's probably already into that freaked out shit by now. He won't suddenly develop a taste for whatever freaked out shit he finds them on the Interwebs. I mean, did you want to fuck a horse the first time you saw a picture of someone fucking a horse? (Never seen a picture of someone fucking a horse? There are of them plenty online—go look at one and see if you're seized by a sudden desire for horse meat. No? Told you so.)
But whether he's into freaked out shit or just looking at mom-approved soft-core porn, CM, you should tell him that porn—particularly commercially produced porn—rarely gives a realistic picture of sex, sexual expression, the human body, etc. Porn is kabuki sex and it won't do him any lasting harm if he reminds himself, from time to time, that his actual sex life is unlikely to bear much resemblance to the stuff he's jerking it to online.
1
Woah Dan!
When I was 13 my mom sat me down and read me a chapter in a Christian publications about how bad ma$turbation is and that you shouldn't do it. Up to that point I new NUTHIN' about playing with my "Hoo Hoo" let alone the fact that if I played with it to a certain point I would find pleasure in the act... LOL!
Needless to say, that night I selp polluted myself about 5 times! I was so sore the next day I could barely walk in the dress pants I had to wear to church the next morning.
Yes, a Christian book taught me the joys of ma$turbation...
My point? By telling her son about naughty web sites that he should stay away from I guarentee you that he will want to check them out, and end up doing exactly what she wanted him NOT to do.
When I was 13 my mom sat me down and read me a chapter in a Christian publications about how bad ma$turbation is and that you shouldn't do it. Up to that point I new NUTHIN' about playing with my "Hoo Hoo" let alone the fact that if I played with it to a certain point I would find pleasure in the act... LOL!
Needless to say, that night I selp polluted myself about 5 times! I was so sore the next day I could barely walk in the dress pants I had to wear to church the next morning.
Yes, a Christian book taught me the joys of ma$turbation...
My point? By telling her son about naughty web sites that he should stay away from I guarentee you that he will want to check them out, and end up doing exactly what she wanted him NOT to do.
2
Thank god I grew up before the inner-tubes existed. I would have died when my mom confronted me (as it would have been inevitable) about my porn viewing habits.
3
@ 1, I was the kind of kid who trusted mom and did everything she told me. But she's a good person, completely non-hypocritical, and my trust was always rewarded and never betrayed.
Thankfully, she never told me anything, one way or the other, about jerkin' it. It was probably dad's job, and he never said anything about it either.
My point? Not all kids go out and do the exact opposite of what parents say.
Thankfully, she never told me anything, one way or the other, about jerkin' it. It was probably dad's job, and he never said anything about it either.
My point? Not all kids go out and do the exact opposite of what parents say.
4
Bad advice. She should simply pretend she didn't see it and spare the kid any embarrassment. I don't care how "upbeat" she makes it, I'm cringing just thinking about it.
6
@4
avoiding talking to kids about sex in general is the reason that so many children are fucked up and have kids at far too young ages. No one taught them any better. Obviously that isn't always the case, I never got the sex talk and didn't turn out fucked up, but other of my siblings did not fair as well.
It's uncomfortable for both parties, but necessary on all levels (porn, real sex, etc.)
avoiding talking to kids about sex in general is the reason that so many children are fucked up and have kids at far too young ages. No one taught them any better. Obviously that isn't always the case, I never got the sex talk and didn't turn out fucked up, but other of my siblings did not fair as well.
It's uncomfortable for both parties, but necessary on all levels (porn, real sex, etc.)
7
no actually @4 there are far worse things that happen to kids these days then the embarrasment of your mom catching you watching porn. i personally know of someone whose teenaged son is facing federal prosecution for looking at child porn on his parent's computer. the feds knocked on the door and promptly arrested him, interrogated his younger sisters and confiscated all the computers in the home. naturally his parents didn't have a clue that he had been looking at any porn much less porn that involved minors..
and then there's the sexting buisness..
it sounds like this kid is lucky to have a mom to ask for sound advice from dan and avoid a LOT of needless trouble, heartache, expense, AND needless embarrassment.
and then there's the sexting buisness..
it sounds like this kid is lucky to have a mom to ask for sound advice from dan and avoid a LOT of needless trouble, heartache, expense, AND needless embarrassment.
8
Matt,
You're lucky, I had one parent tell me that it was dirty, disgusting and wrong, and the other that it was a natural way to deal with any urges I developed. I remember finding it really confusing.
Here I am now with an 11 year old and a 14 year old. I'm hoping that we handle it better than either of my parents did. My husband's dad never discussed it, but in fairness his wife, my husband's mom, lost her battle with cancer when my husband entered into puberty.
Dan,
Thank you for the advice gave me with the eldest last April. I hope I won't have to trouble you again.
You're lucky, I had one parent tell me that it was dirty, disgusting and wrong, and the other that it was a natural way to deal with any urges I developed. I remember finding it really confusing.
Here I am now with an 11 year old and a 14 year old. I'm hoping that we handle it better than either of my parents did. My husband's dad never discussed it, but in fairness his wife, my husband's mom, lost her battle with cancer when my husband entered into puberty.
Dan,
Thank you for the advice gave me with the eldest last April. I hope I won't have to trouble you again.
9
Hopefully in another couple of generations after parents and kids have created a tradition of actually having frank non-hostile discussions about sex it will be a less cringeworthy topic and more kids can grow up with fewer hangups and be more sex positive. Good luck, mom. Your kids may do an even better job of passing along positive messages about sex to their kids one of these days because of your good work. Just because it's the big unmentionable secret now doesn't mean it should be that way or that it's better that way. Complete silence is just as bad as abstinence-only.
10
jeez. just tell him to delete his history regularly, keep his virus software updated as fuck, and spare his poor mother more gray hairs.
& to limit the inevitable embarassment (to a degree) have his dad tell him.
& to limit the inevitable embarassment (to a degree) have his dad tell him.
12
I think your take is way off on this -- porn will TOTALLY affect his sex life for a very long time, because this is what he's going to be programming his dick and his brain with for the next how many years before he actually gets it on with a real girl. When he finally does have sex, he will assume women don't have pubic hair (or not much anyway) and all boobs look like that. He will think that most women are ready to fuck in 10 or 20 seconds. He will think that fucking is the only part of sex that "counts' (other than blowjobs, maybe).
He will also have no clue how to actually make a real woman happy (for instance, real oral sex on women looks nothing like it does in most porn, when they even show it; many women like having nipple attention WAY more than you see in porn; most women would be confused if he suddenly pulled out and came on her boobs). No one in porn discusses birth control or lubrication. Porn is probably the #1 reason so many straight men start out as lousy lovers.
There should be a disclaimer on most straight male porn: Warning: Use of the product will get YOU off, but it has almost nothing to do with how actual women want sex.
And come on, Dan -- of COURSE he will get ideas from porn. One look at Kink.com, for instance, and he will discover all kinds of things he *never* would have thought of otherwise. Would all these straight people be having anal sex now if they hadn't seen it in porn? Would all these ordinary women be getting Brazilian waxes if they or their mates hadn't seen it in porn? No way.
He will also have no clue how to actually make a real woman happy (for instance, real oral sex on women looks nothing like it does in most porn, when they even show it; many women like having nipple attention WAY more than you see in porn; most women would be confused if he suddenly pulled out and came on her boobs). No one in porn discusses birth control or lubrication. Porn is probably the #1 reason so many straight men start out as lousy lovers.
There should be a disclaimer on most straight male porn: Warning: Use of the product will get YOU off, but it has almost nothing to do with how actual women want sex.
And come on, Dan -- of COURSE he will get ideas from porn. One look at Kink.com, for instance, and he will discover all kinds of things he *never* would have thought of otherwise. Would all these straight people be having anal sex now if they hadn't seen it in porn? Would all these ordinary women be getting Brazilian waxes if they or their mates hadn't seen it in porn? No way.
13
I think it's odd to assume that every fetish a person may ever develop is developed by age 15. That sure as hell wasn't the case for me. I learned about a lot of cool new stuff thru books, magazines, videos and yes, web sites. WTF?
14
@12 raises some good points. Your answer was good, Dan, but you kind of left her (and him) hanging with the "real sex isn't like that" business, without providing any information on what it IS like. Some recommended materials (not porn, just real sex ed).
15
Hey Dan, did you just change your post?? I don't remember seeing the "porn rarely gives a realistic idea of sex" part when I posted #12. Gee, I hope I'm not hallucinating...
16
If she snoops into his browsing history and comes across a wealth of MILF sites, she has nobody to blame but herself.
17
If this kid lives in Seattle, he'll probably be looking at porn for most of his life, since you can go for days around here without seeing anyone worth fantasizing about...
18
By Golly the last paragraph is the closest I've seen to some sound advice here. This is most definitely a talk she needs to have with him, if possible with the father present also and hammer down on those points that address real sex vs that seen in the web.
Also 7, terminology is important, its not "porn" because children are victims and being molested in such disgustingly monstrous videos, it's not like a consenting adult giving permission for others to see them naked, so the proper term for it is child molestation, it's a crime right besides homicide (if you ask me) an abuse of a minor, worthy of the death penalty.
Also 7, terminology is important, its not "porn" because children are victims and being molested in such disgustingly monstrous videos, it's not like a consenting adult giving permission for others to see them naked, so the proper term for it is child molestation, it's a crime right besides homicide (if you ask me) an abuse of a minor, worthy of the death penalty.
19
She doesn't need to say she knows he's looking at porn. If she finds she wants to make sure he knows she did actually see that, she might consider whether her confession is about coming clean at the expense of telling him something no kid could hear without embarrassment.
Now, having a mother-son conversation together about internet porn and its pitfalls is a lovely idea, thoughtful and kind. For him to know that his mom figures he's going to check it out if he hasn't already - that's neutral, or at worst could be passingly uneasy. But mom letting on that she already found one of your actual sites, no matter how vanilla - embarrassing. And from a parenting point of view, totally unnecessary, no?
Now, having a mother-son conversation together about internet porn and its pitfalls is a lovely idea, thoughtful and kind. For him to know that his mom figures he's going to check it out if he hasn't already - that's neutral, or at worst could be passingly uneasy. But mom letting on that she already found one of your actual sites, no matter how vanilla - embarrassing. And from a parenting point of view, totally unnecessary, no?
20
"there's a lot of completely freaked out shit on the Internets"
Ugh I love you and occasionally wish I had a kid just so I could help them be awesome.
Ugh I love you and occasionally wish I had a kid just so I could help them be awesome.
21
uh, Dan's advice is smart and necessary, albeit uncomfortable for both parent and child.
but what aspects of any kind of sex talk aren't uncomfortable for both parent and child? It doesn't mean that they aren't necessary.
but what aspects of any kind of sex talk aren't uncomfortable for both parent and child? It doesn't mean that they aren't necessary.
22
I, too, am really, really happy we didn't have teh interwebs when I was growing up. I probably would have ended up 10 times weirder than I already am.
Good advice, Dan.
Good advice, Dan.
23
Honestly, any kid who is not a sociopath is going to figure out soon enough that porn is not real sex, if he doesn't have enough common sense to figure that out from the get go. This idea that shrill anti-porn puritans have about men being 'programmed' by porn is just ludicrous.
24
Since he's a teenager, he's probably going to be acting on his hormones in ways other than looking at porn. Back in my day they handed the kid a copy of "Our bodies, Our selves". I guess this is the modern day equivalent. If she's still worried about his tastes in porn, Mom can get him this too.
25
My mom's approach was always to talk about sex, porn, masturbation etc., in a "general" sort of way so as to pretend we were talking about it as a sociological curiousity rather than her giving advice to me and my sister, i.e., "some young people will find so and so" or "sex can be like such and such." It ended up being a really good way to talk about a lot of issues without being horrifyingly uncomfortable.
She was also a librarian, so she would often leave books lying around, starting with kid's basic sex ed stuff when I was about 8 and moving into relationship/sex self-help books and light prose erotica. I thought I was being sooper sneeky by running off with them and reading them. Never occurred to me to wonder why mom never said a word and just fished the books out of my room and quietly returned them when they were due. Heh.
She was also a librarian, so she would often leave books lying around, starting with kid's basic sex ed stuff when I was about 8 and moving into relationship/sex self-help books and light prose erotica. I thought I was being sooper sneeky by running off with them and reading them. Never occurred to me to wonder why mom never said a word and just fished the books out of my room and quietly returned them when they were due. Heh.
27
why do you have to say something? It will just be awkward and it will have no impact on his behavior whatsoever.
28
It is better to have an honest conversation with little bullshit now. Yeah the kid might be highly embarrassed, but they won't be getting confusing/bad messages.
Dan has offered some good advice, follow it up with some words about deleting your history on occasion if you don't want people finding your stuff.
Dan has offered some good advice, follow it up with some words about deleting your history on occasion if you don't want people finding your stuff.
31
riffing on @12 et al - does porn even really show how to satisfy a man? like, i'm sure getting your dick into something asap and humping for a second and then pulling out to come is passable and all, but i assume it's not the all-the-time ideal sensual experience for all (many? most?) men, especially if they're not just trying to emulate porn...
32
I personally liked when Dan discussed, "Mom-approved soft-core porn," and if his late mother were alive, I think she would have howled in laughter upon reading that one.
I also agree with Dan that porn is kabuki sex and unrealistic, and agree that the kid should be told that real sex is better than porn by a long shot.
I also agree with Dan that porn is kabuki sex and unrealistic, and agree that the kid should be told that real sex is better than porn by a long shot.
33
When I have kids there is no way that I am going to allow them to look at internet porn, even if that requires having the family computer in the middle of the kitchen. This isn't because I'm against porn- I'm definitely not- but kids and teens should NOT have access to endless hours of porn on the internet.
Where is the mystique? What kind of a sex life can you have if you are completely desensitized to images of sex by the age of 15? I think it is totally unhealthy. Kids should masturbate to copies of "our bodies ourselves", or some weird sex book they find on the family bookshelf. If they want to look at porn, they should be forced to show some ingenuity and sneak around. The last thing I would want for my child is to associate sex with the dead eyes of pornstars, or to be so used to explicit images of sex that they are cynical at a young age.
Use your erotic imaginations, people!!
Where is the mystique? What kind of a sex life can you have if you are completely desensitized to images of sex by the age of 15? I think it is totally unhealthy. Kids should masturbate to copies of "our bodies ourselves", or some weird sex book they find on the family bookshelf. If they want to look at porn, they should be forced to show some ingenuity and sneak around. The last thing I would want for my child is to associate sex with the dead eyes of pornstars, or to be so used to explicit images of sex that they are cynical at a young age.
Use your erotic imaginations, people!!
34
Re: using one's erotic imagination...it's too bad one can't encourage one's teenager to actually WRITE some porn. When I was a teen I found that writing it was incredibly exciting, got pretty good at it, and used it in several real-life seduction scenarios later on. I don't suppose one could hand one's kid a pen and piece of paper and say "go ahead: anything you create is going to be stronger, more engaging, and much hotter than the 'dead eyes of pornstars'." [nice wording, @33, btw]
35
Wow - looks like some of the Women of SLOG are scared by porn!! The answers of @12, 33 and @34Sarah in Olympia are exactly why porn has the stigma that it does.
@33 has some pretty unrealistic expectations too. If you think that just because your kid cant surf porn at home that he/she is not going to look at it while at someone else’s house you are deluding yourself.
@34 has some pretty good points with the free expression, but most parents cannot bring themselves to be that open about sex with their kids.
I have a teenage son and I know for a fact that he has been checking out some porn sites (I am a Network Engineer and monitor all of the activity at the house). When I noticed it I spoke with my wife about it and we made a plan to talk to him about porn and sex in general. Before he began the porn explorations I came home early from work and caught him with his girlfriend making out - but he did not know that I saw them. We had "the talk" the next evening. I explained to him about what he should be doing at 15 and what he should not, but as others here have expressed he may or may not pay attention to that. His "porn" activity has not increased any since his initial discovery, maybe because he has a pretty active social life. He has talked to me about somethings that he has seen at his friends houses and let me tell you some of it falls into the "freaked out shit" that Dan mentioned. I let him know my feelings and he seemed to understand that this stuff was not "normal" and he should not be checking it out. Notice I did not forbid him from hanging out with those friends because of the rebellious nature of teens. At least I know that he will ask me if he runs into trouble processing sex stuff on his own.
@33 has some pretty unrealistic expectations too. If you think that just because your kid cant surf porn at home that he/she is not going to look at it while at someone else’s house you are deluding yourself.
@34 has some pretty good points with the free expression, but most parents cannot bring themselves to be that open about sex with their kids.
I have a teenage son and I know for a fact that he has been checking out some porn sites (I am a Network Engineer and monitor all of the activity at the house). When I noticed it I spoke with my wife about it and we made a plan to talk to him about porn and sex in general. Before he began the porn explorations I came home early from work and caught him with his girlfriend making out - but he did not know that I saw them. We had "the talk" the next evening. I explained to him about what he should be doing at 15 and what he should not, but as others here have expressed he may or may not pay attention to that. His "porn" activity has not increased any since his initial discovery, maybe because he has a pretty active social life. He has talked to me about somethings that he has seen at his friends houses and let me tell you some of it falls into the "freaked out shit" that Dan mentioned. I let him know my feelings and he seemed to understand that this stuff was not "normal" and he should not be checking it out. Notice I did not forbid him from hanging out with those friends because of the rebellious nature of teens. At least I know that he will ask me if he runs into trouble processing sex stuff on his own.
37
I think it's important to mention that just because you see freaky-deaky shit in your kid's borwsing history, doesn't mean he gets turned on by it. I know when I was a teenager I looked up a whole bunch of porn that didn't turn me on just cause seeing fucked-up shit is interesting. I wouldn't get turned on by seeing a chick fuck a horse, but there's still some morbid fascination to be had in seeing it. Basically, I'm trying to say that just because you know what he's looking at, doesn't mean you know how he's looking at it. Or she, as the case may be.
38
I'm surprised you didn't jump on this statement:
"While searching for a website, an obvious porn site popped in the computer's history." Popped up?? Sounds a lot like other posts/Savage Love letters where dicks suddenly and inexplicably "appeared in my mouth/anus/vagina, etc."
History doesn't just "pop up". You usually have to snoop for it. Arguably, if your browser (Hi Firefox!) performs auto-fill, a porn URL might well appear in the entry window, but it requires an affirmative act to load the website.
This is a teachable moment, but the lesson should be about respecting another's privacy, not freaking out about trans-species porn.
"While searching for a website, an obvious porn site popped in the computer's history." Popped up?? Sounds a lot like other posts/Savage Love letters where dicks suddenly and inexplicably "appeared in my mouth/anus/vagina, etc."
History doesn't just "pop up". You usually have to snoop for it. Arguably, if your browser (Hi Firefox!) performs auto-fill, a porn URL might well appear in the entry window, but it requires an affirmative act to load the website.
This is a teachable moment, but the lesson should be about respecting another's privacy, not freaking out about trans-species porn.
39
My kid and I talk about tons of stuff from science to current events to video games, so the talking about stuff door is kept open, and you can work in subjects like sex without it being a dramatic "talk".
We also talk about making conscious decisions about what you let become your normal; whether it's creepy movies or bugs or porn, you should know that something shocking will become no big deal after you've seen it a bunch of times, so you should choose carefully.
This was a good reminder, Dan, we talked last night about this in the context of how weird the internet is in general, not just porn-wise.
We also talk about making conscious decisions about what you let become your normal; whether it's creepy movies or bugs or porn, you should know that something shocking will become no big deal after you've seen it a bunch of times, so you should choose carefully.
This was a good reminder, Dan, we talked last night about this in the context of how weird the internet is in general, not just porn-wise.
40
Wow. No. Kids have a much better chance of becoming well-adjusted sexual beings if they have a good source of information about sex. The information they'll get from internet porn ranges from mildly bad to appallingly bad. Not that there's necessarily anything wrong with porn - it's just not educational.
Conversations with parents can be embarrassing, but they are unlikely to be counter-productive if you are properly prepared. If you really can't face talking about sex with your kids, that's what uncles are for.
why do you have to say something? It will just be awkward and it will have no impact on his behavior whatsoever.
Wow. No. Kids have a much better chance of becoming well-adjusted sexual beings if they have a good source of information about sex. The information they'll get from internet porn ranges from mildly bad to appallingly bad. Not that there's necessarily anything wrong with porn - it's just not educational.
Conversations with parents can be embarrassing, but they are unlikely to be counter-productive if you are properly prepared. If you really can't face talking about sex with your kids, that's what uncles are for.
41
38 - it was pretty damn apparent to me that she was talking about the browser's cache, not it's history, even if she used the wrong term. And yes, you can often tell that a URL is for a porn site before you load it.
Secondly, you really need to get over this idea that minor children have a right to absolute privacy from their parents. Parents snoop, and they should, when the intention is to protect and help raise their children well.
Secondly, you really need to get over this idea that minor children have a right to absolute privacy from their parents. Parents snoop, and they should, when the intention is to protect and help raise their children well.
42
@30 - thanks. What's interesting is that my mom's approach ended up producing two young women who were very comfortable about the topic of sex and very well informed - we've both been reading Dan Savage for almost a decade and independently got into the practice of writing gay erotica good enough to fool experienced gay men into thinking we were the same.
And yet...neither of us started having sex until we were in our mid 20s! I honestly think it was because young men were terrified of us, but now we're both happily settled into LTRs with guys who can't believe the good deal they're getting. Neither of us have experienced the "sexual dysfunction" that Dan often points to as being common in people who start having sex late.
And yet...neither of us started having sex until we were in our mid 20s! I honestly think it was because young men were terrified of us, but now we're both happily settled into LTRs with guys who can't believe the good deal they're getting. Neither of us have experienced the "sexual dysfunction" that Dan often points to as being common in people who start having sex late.
43
15 seems a little late to be having this talk, nowadays. My nephew got caught with some porn at 13, and I know for a fact that my brother got his first whiff of it at 7 (back in the magazine days).
I'm not anti-porn...I watched it with my ex-husband, I watch it sometimes on my own, and I'm very open to watching it with my current BF, though he's a bit confused and surprised by that.
The one thing I would say porn definitely does for men is intensify the desire to have a big cock. Every guy I've been with, regardless of how well-endowed he was, made comments about "not looking like a porn star." God knows I don't look like a porn star, but they weren't concerned about that.
So I'd include that in my "porn awareness" discussion...not only is the sex not realistic, but the cock sizes aren't typical and you should be aware that most women don't care how big it is as long as you learn to use it well!
I'm not anti-porn...I watched it with my ex-husband, I watch it sometimes on my own, and I'm very open to watching it with my current BF, though he's a bit confused and surprised by that.
The one thing I would say porn definitely does for men is intensify the desire to have a big cock. Every guy I've been with, regardless of how well-endowed he was, made comments about "not looking like a porn star." God knows I don't look like a porn star, but they weren't concerned about that.
So I'd include that in my "porn awareness" discussion...not only is the sex not realistic, but the cock sizes aren't typical and you should be aware that most women don't care how big it is as long as you learn to use it well!
44
What if Mom searches for horse porn as Dan suggested and she digs it? And then she shares her love of horse penis with her son?
That would be hot.
That would be hot.
45
43 - I once had a guy insist to me that he was "small" at seven inches! The ideas they get into their heads from watching this stuff...
46
45-I know! It's unbelievable. My boyfriend asked me, "How big do you think guys would make it if they could?" I told him, "It'd be so big they'd have to carry it around in a wheelbarrow." So that's our running joke...every time we see a cart or wheelbarrow, he pushes it around like he's carrying his "tool" in it.
I don't want to blame it all on porn...I'm sure there's enough penis-size insecurity without that, but it definitely doesn't help the issue.
I don't want to blame it all on porn...I'm sure there's enough penis-size insecurity without that, but it definitely doesn't help the issue.
47
@12... lame!
[for the next how many years before he actually gets it on with a real girl]
Why do you assume he hasn't at least fooled around already?
[He will think that most women are ready to fuck in 10 or 20 seconds.]
Honestly, some are. But his partner is responsible for telling him what she wants-- avoiding porn is hardly the way to get teen guys to think about something other than the myriad delights of penetration. A lobotomy or a gunshot is far more effective.
[He will think that fucking is the only part of sex that "counts' (other than blowjobs, maybe).]
Because men didn't ever think that before mass-distribution of porn. Those two acts are my faves, far and away, but again, he'll have to work it out with his partner(s). Don't assume women are spineless or want the sex *you* want -- You don't help any woman's sexual agency by basically arguing that porn is brainwashing men.
[Oral sex on women looks nothing like it does in most porn]
I don't know if "most" is really correct anymore. Mainstream porn is still pretty crappy and draws most customers, but there are a lot of titles with more realistic sex being made these days.
[Would all these straight people be having anal sex now if they hadn't seen it in porn?]
Yes. Because it's awesome. And it it isn't, you're either doing it wrong or you're not that into it, which is a-ok. Also was a big hit before porn.
[Would all these ordinary women be getting Brazilian waxes if they or their mates hadn't seen it in porn? No way.]
Again... hair removal predates contemporary porn, but we can thank porn for popularizing the joys of sensitive, silky skin and making it widely available for we "ordinary women". I prefer a "euro" style, though, because it leaves a few cute little curls. Plenty go totally bare, eliciting a hysterical cry of "holy infantalization, batman!!" from the pro-pube lobby. Nonsense. Hair is not agency, maturity, etc. If a guy wants to cut a woman down emotionally, he'll go for something more central than the pubic hair. Real people like hair removal because of the sensation, visibility, and the fact that lube works better when there's less hair around absorbing the moisture.
[Most women would be confused if he suddenly pulled out and came on her boobs.]
Ever heard of the withdrawal method? You know, the thing people have been doing for millenia to try to lower risk of pregnancy? Pretty sure plenty of the semen of the ages ended up on women's skin. Mass confusion did not ensue. If this kid were to try this (the spunk-play, not the terribly ill-advised BC method), the only pertinent questions are: Did he enjoy it? and Did his partner enjoy it?" Doesn't matter where he got the idea.
[Porn is probably the #1 reason so many straight men start out as lousy lovers.]
I'd say mismatched expectations/coordination stemming from naivete, pop culture, friends, lack of good sex ed *and* porn are why people's first experiences can be awkward.
Someone who's learning to do anything isn't "lousy" at it -- they're f***ing LEARNING. But a person who categorically disdains sex acts seen in porn and expects the entire male sex to bow to his/her superior sexual wisdom is an asshole, and that's far harder to unlearn, unfortunately. Good luck with that.
More...
[for the next how many years before he actually gets it on with a real girl]
Why do you assume he hasn't at least fooled around already?
[He will think that most women are ready to fuck in 10 or 20 seconds.]
Honestly, some are. But his partner is responsible for telling him what she wants-- avoiding porn is hardly the way to get teen guys to think about something other than the myriad delights of penetration. A lobotomy or a gunshot is far more effective.
[He will think that fucking is the only part of sex that "counts' (other than blowjobs, maybe).]
Because men didn't ever think that before mass-distribution of porn. Those two acts are my faves, far and away, but again, he'll have to work it out with his partner(s). Don't assume women are spineless or want the sex *you* want -- You don't help any woman's sexual agency by basically arguing that porn is brainwashing men.
[Oral sex on women looks nothing like it does in most porn]
I don't know if "most" is really correct anymore. Mainstream porn is still pretty crappy and draws most customers, but there are a lot of titles with more realistic sex being made these days.
[Would all these straight people be having anal sex now if they hadn't seen it in porn?]
Yes. Because it's awesome. And it it isn't, you're either doing it wrong or you're not that into it, which is a-ok. Also was a big hit before porn.
[Would all these ordinary women be getting Brazilian waxes if they or their mates hadn't seen it in porn? No way.]
Again... hair removal predates contemporary porn, but we can thank porn for popularizing the joys of sensitive, silky skin and making it widely available for we "ordinary women". I prefer a "euro" style, though, because it leaves a few cute little curls. Plenty go totally bare, eliciting a hysterical cry of "holy infantalization, batman!!" from the pro-pube lobby. Nonsense. Hair is not agency, maturity, etc. If a guy wants to cut a woman down emotionally, he'll go for something more central than the pubic hair. Real people like hair removal because of the sensation, visibility, and the fact that lube works better when there's less hair around absorbing the moisture.
[Most women would be confused if he suddenly pulled out and came on her boobs.]
Ever heard of the withdrawal method? You know, the thing people have been doing for millenia to try to lower risk of pregnancy? Pretty sure plenty of the semen of the ages ended up on women's skin. Mass confusion did not ensue. If this kid were to try this (the spunk-play, not the terribly ill-advised BC method), the only pertinent questions are: Did he enjoy it? and Did his partner enjoy it?" Doesn't matter where he got the idea.
[Porn is probably the #1 reason so many straight men start out as lousy lovers.]
I'd say mismatched expectations/coordination stemming from naivete, pop culture, friends, lack of good sex ed *and* porn are why people's first experiences can be awkward.
Someone who's learning to do anything isn't "lousy" at it -- they're f***ing LEARNING. But a person who categorically disdains sex acts seen in porn and expects the entire male sex to bow to his/her superior sexual wisdom is an asshole, and that's far harder to unlearn, unfortunately. Good luck with that.
48
Clueless Mom here. Dan, thanks for your help. It makes sense to both my husband and me. Oh, and 38, please see 41. My cluelessness extends to computers as well. (Thanks, 41!)
49
This is a good example of why you ought to learn how to create guest accounts on your computer, and teach your son how to do the same.
(And Clueless Mom, I totally believe your story of how you stumbled across your son's porn. It's all too easy to see what the prior user of a computer account has been up to, whether you are trying to do so or not.)
(And Clueless Mom, I totally believe your story of how you stumbled across your son's porn. It's all too easy to see what the prior user of a computer account has been up to, whether you are trying to do so or not.)
50
My step-mom was furious when she found the history on her computer of internet porn. Not because of my looking at porn, but because I was using her computer to do it. She didn't want me fucking it up with malware and viruses and all that jazz.
She never had a sit down talk with me about masturbation.....sex...anything. (side note....she's been my step-mom since I was 7....so she's more like my real mom)
It just wasn't something we needed to talk about.
To Mr. Savage: Are you deprived of great freaky hardcore XXX fucky fucky time? Sexual Orientation doesn't matter to me so I will just go, many a time my significant other has asked me what they are doing wrong....why I wasn't getting turned on....I simply pop in my favorite deep-throat love DVD and let them know, if they want to get me off they have to let me fuck their face....just a little bit....
Shit...ok so for story-time sake I am straight....I love pussy. It's the greatest.
I want a girl who likes rough sex, giving and recieving...it's not that watching that type of porn got me to only be able to get off that way, it's because the first blowjob I ever got from a girl was so off the charts in bad-assness that it was the way it had to be done from then on.The sound of her gagging made me feel like I had the biggest cock on the planet...her drool soaking our sleeping bag turned me on....
Don't kill that young mans dreams by telling him that he will never have the kind of sex that you see in porn....if that was the case then there wouldn't even be porn.
She never had a sit down talk with me about masturbation.....sex...anything. (side note....she's been my step-mom since I was 7....so she's more like my real mom)
It just wasn't something we needed to talk about.
To Mr. Savage: Are you deprived of great freaky hardcore XXX fucky fucky time? Sexual Orientation doesn't matter to me so I will just go, many a time my significant other has asked me what they are doing wrong....why I wasn't getting turned on....I simply pop in my favorite deep-throat love DVD and let them know, if they want to get me off they have to let me fuck their face....just a little bit....
Shit...ok so for story-time sake I am straight....I love pussy. It's the greatest.
I want a girl who likes rough sex, giving and recieving...it's not that watching that type of porn got me to only be able to get off that way, it's because the first blowjob I ever got from a girl was so off the charts in bad-assness that it was the way it had to be done from then on.The sound of her gagging made me feel like I had the biggest cock on the planet...her drool soaking our sleeping bag turned me on....
Don't kill that young mans dreams by telling him that he will never have the kind of sex that you see in porn....if that was the case then there wouldn't even be porn.
51
to 43: Everyone knows that the reason Porn dudes cocks look so big is because all the women in porn now are like 84 pounds and 4 foot 8....HAHA!
Seriously though....there are some horse sized cocks in porn now....I don't know his name....but he looks exactly like that wrestler Batista....and his cock is shaped like a bananna....with giant fucking nasty ass veins all over it...
However, he can only ever manage to get half of it into the chicks pussy....because women are around 6 inches deep.
point being, it is better to have circumfrance then length.
;)
Seriously though....there are some horse sized cocks in porn now....I don't know his name....but he looks exactly like that wrestler Batista....and his cock is shaped like a bananna....with giant fucking nasty ass veins all over it...
However, he can only ever manage to get half of it into the chicks pussy....because women are around 6 inches deep.
point being, it is better to have circumfrance then length.
;)
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