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News & ArtsThursday, July 23, 2009
News Gatesgate
Posted by Dan Savage on Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 9:12 AM
Some saner commentary—Charles, Charles, Charles—on the arrest of Henry Louis Gates in his own home:
[Police officer] Crowley does not claim to have felt as though he was in danger, and says he believes that Gates was being truthful about it being his residence. So I don't really understand why Crowley stuck around to be yelled at, and it makes me uncomfortable that someone can simply be arrested for the crime of saying nasty things to a police officer under the auspices of "disorderly conduct." I'm not aware of the clause in the First Amendment that exempts police officers from angry criticism. Gates' reaction, if the police report is accurate, may have been inappropriate, but it was understandable, given that he was being accused of breaking into his own home. But if he was arrested simply because Crowley was angry or embarrassed at being mistreated, I don't think that's a defensible reaction.
1
I can't help but picture some unreasonable white dude screaming at a cop when erroneously confronted on his own property after a break-in report. Anyone ever seen the television program Cops?
I read somewhere Louis Gates is actually some sort of race relation academic. Funny if true.
I read somewhere Louis Gates is actually some sort of race relation academic. Funny if true.
2
Good Morning Dan,
I agreed with Charles' earlier post. I don't doubt he (Gates) was racially profiled. But, Gates lost his cool. He'll stand to lose more than Officer Crowley ever will in the end.
I contend in America and probably elsewhere, everybody racially profiles. I know I have. I want to avoid it but it does happen subconsciously. Consider this:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/lo…
After reflecting on the horror of this incident, I immediately assumed the suspect was black. Yes, I know I profiled but given the statistics of the association of crime with black males, I genuinely thought that was the case. But, it is also a tragedy and not just for the victim (Theresa Butz) and her family but for men of African-American heritage in the USA.
We live in a highly stratified society Pres. Obama notwithstanding. There are way too many African-American males in prison justifiably or not. There are way to many missing fathers of these same men and others (72% out-of-wedlock births), way too many committing violent crime and way too many not graduating with their HS class (nearly half of all in the US according to Nicholas Kristof).
It's the greatest tragedy happening in our society today.
I agreed with Charles' earlier post. I don't doubt he (Gates) was racially profiled. But, Gates lost his cool. He'll stand to lose more than Officer Crowley ever will in the end.
I contend in America and probably elsewhere, everybody racially profiles. I know I have. I want to avoid it but it does happen subconsciously. Consider this:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/lo…
After reflecting on the horror of this incident, I immediately assumed the suspect was black. Yes, I know I profiled but given the statistics of the association of crime with black males, I genuinely thought that was the case. But, it is also a tragedy and not just for the victim (Theresa Butz) and her family but for men of African-American heritage in the USA.
We live in a highly stratified society Pres. Obama notwithstanding. There are way too many African-American males in prison justifiably or not. There are way to many missing fathers of these same men and others (72% out-of-wedlock births), way too many committing violent crime and way too many not graduating with their HS class (nearly half of all in the US according to Nicholas Kristof).
It's the greatest tragedy happening in our society today.
3
Gates should not have been arrested, this is obviously true. But, I'm sorry, it's not at all "understandable" for someone to be pissed that a cop is accusing you of breaking into your own home. Cop sees someone breaking into a house, person says oh but it's my house, cop had better damn well prove that it actually is the person's house.
Maybe I'm biased because a similar thing happened to me (cop thinking I was breaking into my parents' home and stealing stuff), and I was able to be like, oh hey, yeah, I guess this does look like I'm breaking in, I guess I'd better calmly explain what's going on and show him my ID.
Maybe I'm biased because a similar thing happened to me (cop thinking I was breaking into my parents' home and stealing stuff), and I was able to be like, oh hey, yeah, I guess this does look like I'm breaking in, I guess I'd better calmly explain what's going on and show him my ID.
4
As Dan has taught us time and time again, escalating a conflict is ALWAYS the only sane thing to do.
6
I once honked at and flipped the bird at a cop and did not get arrested. It's true I was respectful after she pulled me over, but it's also true I am a white chick.
I can talk myself out of any traffic ticket except parking violations. It's a different world for me than for many.
I can talk myself out of any traffic ticket except parking violations. It's a different world for me than for many.
7
@3 Read the police report. He showed ID. The front door was not broken in but infact would not open (he'd come in the back door with keys after he was unable to force the stuck front door open from the outside.) This is no "they said/I said" situation. The Police report frankly admits: Gates was arrested for saying things the Policeman didn't like.
BTW, on Fox News there's an article with this Policeman saying Obama has no right to comment on the arrest. Holy smokes- this cop is a nutcase!
BTW, on Fox News there's an article with this Policeman saying Obama has no right to comment on the arrest. Holy smokes- this cop is a nutcase!
8
As a young lawyer (white, female), and one who grew up in a city with an aggressive and corrupt police force, I often try to imagine myself in similar situations to plan what I would do.
Race is definitely a huge factor, and I have yet to be in a city where I don't think it's a problem. But, I think the larger problem is the make-up of the police force and its culture. I have a ton of friends who are prosecutors in various states, and they all work with the cops on a daily basis. The stories I hear about police behavior in both professional and off-the-clock settings make my stomach turn. Basically, the stereotype is largely true: big dumb redneck (or equivalent) with a point to prove and a weapon (but the law doesn't apply to him, his family, or his friends), often corrupt or callous. How dare ANYONE question his/her authority??? The fact the we give people like this such a level of power is more than ridiculous and frightening.
As to Gates' reaction: police are certainly not above suspicion, nor are they above criticism. I'll be damned if yelling at a police officer is a legitimate criminal act. Strike one? Yes--assault or battery (unless you legitimately feel you are being unlawfully arrested, though I would fear for my life to try). Frankly, I wish that a police officer would try to search, detain, or arrest me for some ridiculous, unfounded reason, or commit any sort of force upon me if I tried to assert my rights. I would OWN the city.
Gates showed the cop his ID, and that should have been the end of it, but the cop wouldn't let it go and leave. Gates did nothing he wasn't legally allowed to do, and frankly it was the police who refused to cooperate, not Gates. Who would I trust more? Distinguished scholar or high school-educated police officer who can't use common sense? The fact that this is even debatable is astounding.
More...
Race is definitely a huge factor, and I have yet to be in a city where I don't think it's a problem. But, I think the larger problem is the make-up of the police force and its culture. I have a ton of friends who are prosecutors in various states, and they all work with the cops on a daily basis. The stories I hear about police behavior in both professional and off-the-clock settings make my stomach turn. Basically, the stereotype is largely true: big dumb redneck (or equivalent) with a point to prove and a weapon (but the law doesn't apply to him, his family, or his friends), often corrupt or callous. How dare ANYONE question his/her authority??? The fact the we give people like this such a level of power is more than ridiculous and frightening.
As to Gates' reaction: police are certainly not above suspicion, nor are they above criticism. I'll be damned if yelling at a police officer is a legitimate criminal act. Strike one? Yes--assault or battery (unless you legitimately feel you are being unlawfully arrested, though I would fear for my life to try). Frankly, I wish that a police officer would try to search, detain, or arrest me for some ridiculous, unfounded reason, or commit any sort of force upon me if I tried to assert my rights. I would OWN the city.
Gates showed the cop his ID, and that should have been the end of it, but the cop wouldn't let it go and leave. Gates did nothing he wasn't legally allowed to do, and frankly it was the police who refused to cooperate, not Gates. Who would I trust more? Distinguished scholar or high school-educated police officer who can't use common sense? The fact that this is even debatable is astounding.
10
@7 I'm not saying that I think the arrest was justified. From what I know, it seems like it was not.
I'm saying that Gates should not have flown off the handle as he apparently did (unless the police report is extremely embellished, which I guess is a possibility) – e.g., yelling that the cop was racist, initially refusing to show ID, saying “you have no idea who you’re messing with”. If a cop gets a report of a potential break-in, goes to the house and sees that there’s a person inside, the cop should prove that the person lives there. It could have been a completely different incident if Gates had just said “Sorry officer, there must be some misunderstanding. I was trying to get in the front door, but it was stuck. Here’s my ID.”
It seems like everyone involved in this entire story is an idiot, from the woman who called the police to the cop to Gates himself.
I'm saying that Gates should not have flown off the handle as he apparently did (unless the police report is extremely embellished, which I guess is a possibility) – e.g., yelling that the cop was racist, initially refusing to show ID, saying “you have no idea who you’re messing with”. If a cop gets a report of a potential break-in, goes to the house and sees that there’s a person inside, the cop should prove that the person lives there. It could have been a completely different incident if Gates had just said “Sorry officer, there must be some misunderstanding. I was trying to get in the front door, but it was stuck. Here’s my ID.”
It seems like everyone involved in this entire story is an idiot, from the woman who called the police to the cop to Gates himself.
11
@6- so you didn't get a ticket for flipping off a cop, you are a white female, and this proves something? Not really. Saying that because a white female got away with this means all white females would is like saying because the black teenagers who stomped to death the Tuba man only got 30 days in jail that ALL blacks who commit murde only get 30 days in jail?
12
No.
The charges have already been dropped. There's still a chance that Officer Crowley will have his ass handed to him however.
He'll stand to lose more than Officer Crowley ever will in the end.
No.
The charges have already been dropped. There's still a chance that Officer Crowley will have his ass handed to him however.
13
@11: I think @6 was acknowledging her privilege and saying she was lucky to be a white woman. She seems aware other people would receive very different treatment.
14
@10: Exactly. From all of the versions of the story, the one thing that strikes me is that it sounds like everybody involved was being a dumbass and nobody did anything to back the situation down, and what should have been a 2 minute conversation turned into this mess.
15
And another thing. How on earth is there racial profiling here? I could understand making the case that the cop is racist and that's why Gates got arrested, but it's not like they stopped him walking down the street because he's black. Someone called and said they thought someone was breaking into his house, I think they would have wanted to talk to whomever they found in his house. The race thing here is all about how race shapped the conversation, not why the cop wanted to talk to Gates. That's not the same thing as profiling.
16
I don't think white people have any right to judge this man's actions.
I am a biracial woman living in Canada, and my father and I have had many discussions about how lucky we are to be living here than in the United States. One reason is health care (sorry to rub that in) and the other reason is race relations.
An earlier post suggested that everyone racially profiles. If it happens here, I don't see it. My family and I have never seen it or experienced it here in Canada. Please don't project your bad behaviour on other countries just because it shames you.
I am a biracial woman living in Canada, and my father and I have had many discussions about how lucky we are to be living here than in the United States. One reason is health care (sorry to rub that in) and the other reason is race relations.
An earlier post suggested that everyone racially profiles. If it happens here, I don't see it. My family and I have never seen it or experienced it here in Canada. Please don't project your bad behaviour on other countries just because it shames you.
17
@16 Charm,
I find it extremely hard to believe that Canadians DON"T racially profile. I, too come from a multi-racial family (I have a biracial brother & an AA sister). Spend some time in Toronto (maybe you live there?). You'll find much of the crime perpetrated by Jamaican-Canadians.
And, yes ALL people have a right to judge Prof. Gates actions as easily as Pres. Obama judged (inappropriately, I believe) Officer Crowley's.
I find it extremely hard to believe that Canadians DON"T racially profile. I, too come from a multi-racial family (I have a biracial brother & an AA sister). Spend some time in Toronto (maybe you live there?). You'll find much of the crime perpetrated by Jamaican-Canadians.
And, yes ALL people have a right to judge Prof. Gates actions as easily as Pres. Obama judged (inappropriately, I believe) Officer Crowley's.
19
The professor is obsessed with race issues; look at his 37 page CV and tell me otherwise. He and he alone brought up his race in the conversation with the cop. He couldn't even acknowledge that it might have looked a little suspicious to a passerby to see two men trying to push in the front door of a nice looking house. It HAD to be because he was black.
20
The thing that disturbs me the most is that the President commented publicly on the case. This is the President of the United States - he should not be commenting about something like this. I does not matter that he is black or white or yellow. By being who he is the President needs to distance himself from these types of petty arguments. His office should not be perceived as making judgements and providing commentary on these types of things. In my opinion he should have kept silent regardless of who was right and who was wrong. No other President (and not just because they were white) would have spoken out about something that was not relevant.
21
@8 Elitist, much? Judging people by their education and occupation only shows your ignorance. You're not much better than the cop.
@20 President Obama is still a citizen with First Amendment rights, and he is allowed to speak his opinion. Why do people keep ignoring this fact?
@20 President Obama is still a citizen with First Amendment rights, and he is allowed to speak his opinion. Why do people keep ignoring this fact?
22
I'm with #3, they were all idiots, from the woman who reported the incident (who should have recognized Gates) to Gates (who should have been grateful the police responded quickly, and shown his ID without throwing a hissy fit) to the police officer (who should have realized that black men are understandably sensitive about police challenging them, and should have shrugged off Gates s-hole behavior and walked away.)
Note that the police officer arrested Gates AFTER Gates had shown ID and the officer was satisfied that is wasn't a break-in. Yes, of course the officer has to respond to the 911 call, and of course he should ask the man he sees for ID. But when that man is 60, uses a cane, and is talking on the phone, the officer's first assumption ought to be that it's probably the homeowner, and while he should ask for ID, he should do so politely, explaining why he is asking, and display the attitude that this is probably just a mix-up that he needs to straighten out.
Note that the police officer arrested Gates AFTER Gates had shown ID and the officer was satisfied that is wasn't a break-in. Yes, of course the officer has to respond to the 911 call, and of course he should ask the man he sees for ID. But when that man is 60, uses a cane, and is talking on the phone, the officer's first assumption ought to be that it's probably the homeowner, and while he should ask for ID, he should do so politely, explaining why he is asking, and display the attitude that this is probably just a mix-up that he needs to straighten out.
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