Slog
News & ArtsWednesday, July 22, 2009
Chow XXXL: Why Are We So Fat?
Posted by Bethany Jean Clement on Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 9:57 AM
Dan Savage posted a link to a New York Times article on the latest in the fat acceptance movement on Monday, and a couple days before that linked to a piece on a new study suggesting that obesity isn't all genetic. His run-ins with fat acceptance supporters, mainly blogger Kate Harding, are a storied part of Slog history.
Today's already brought "Today in Intuitive Eating" (do you smell a series?). Fat's kind of Dan's beat, so I keep meaning to ask him what he thinks of the New Yorker piece "XXXL: Why Are We So Fat?" It's about the recent spate of books on the "mystery batter-dipped in an enigma" of why Americans have ballooned so much in recent years, covering some evolutionary reasoning, the origin of supersizing and "eatertainment," the growing field of fat studies, and tons more.
A few highlights:
Men are now on average seventeen pounds heavier than they were in the late seventies, and for women that figure is even higher: nineteen pounds. The proportion of overweight children, age six to eleven, has more than doubled, while the proportion of overweight adolescents, age twelve to nineteen, has more than tripled.
Today, soft drinks account for about seven per cent of all the calories ingested in the United States, making them “the number one food consumed in the American diet.” If, instead of sweetened beverages, the average American drank water, Finkelstein calculates, he or she would weigh fifteen pounds less.
In yet another experiment, [Brian] Wansink [author of Mindless Eating] rigged up bowls that could be refilled, via a hidden tube. When he served soup out of the trick bowls, people, he writes, “ate and ate and ate.” On average, they consumed seventy-three per cent more than those who were served from regular bowls. “Give them a lot and they eat a lot,” he writes.
More recently, fat studies has emerged as a field of scholarly inquiry; four years ago, the Popular Culture Association/American Cultural Association added a fat-studies component to its national conferences, and in 2006 Smith College hosted a three-day seminar titled “Fat and the Academy.”Among the founding principles of the discipline is that weight is not a dietary issue but a political one. “Fat studies is a radical field, in the sense that it goes to the root of weight-related belief systems,” Marilyn Wann, who describes herself as five feet four and two hundred and eighty-five pounds, writes in her foreword to the “[Fat Studies] Reader.”
But, just because size bias exists it doesn’t follow that putting on weight is a subversive act. In contrast to the field’s claims about itself, fat studies ends up taking some remarkably conservative positions. It effectively allies itself with McDonald’s and the rest of the processed-food industry, while opposing the sorts of groups that advocate better school-lunch programs and more public parks. To claim that some people are just meant to be fat is not quite the same as arguing that some people are just meant to be poor, but it comes uncomfortably close.
Again, the rest is here. Dan?
1
"a new study suggesting that obesity isn't all genetic"?
You mean, before this study we all assumed obesity was all genetic? Huh?
You mean, before this study we all assumed obesity was all genetic? Huh?
2
I don't understand why we can't compromise and say that excess fat is unhealthy and that bias against fat people is disproportionate to the actual health risks (due to the groups of people who get fat--poor, black, female).
3
I don't think the bias has anything to do with health risks.
I also think the health risks are substantial.
I also think the health risks are substantial.
5
it's the food industry...they're probably faking all the pro fat acceptance web sites.....follow the money.....when i go to farmer market and fruit stands i get loads of food for way cheaper than at safeway, and there isn't the temptation to pay for processed, cooked food like $8 for fried chiken wings....you can get ten pounds of fruit and eveggies for $8 at the farmer market or fruit stand.....
it's all a conspiracy, and of course, total communism is the answer, with mandated exercise every morning.
it's all a conspiracy, and of course, total communism is the answer, with mandated exercise every morning.
6
I have serious doubts that this topic will be addressed in any serious fashion here.
Can we just build a big effigy of a fat, white, Christian, Republican, carnivorous, Texan already?
Burn it and be done with it.
Can we just build a big effigy of a fat, white, Christian, Republican, carnivorous, Texan already?
Burn it and be done with it.
8
What farmer's market are you shopping at that has vegetables for 80 cents a pound? 'Cause I love me my farmer's market, but it ain't that cheap.
you can get ten pounds of fruit and veggies for $8 at the farmer market
What farmer's market are you shopping at that has vegetables for 80 cents a pound? 'Cause I love me my farmer's market, but it ain't that cheap.
9
One thing the article mentions that I've always found interesting is the way that the food industry has managed to get people eating so much more in a remarkably short period of time. It's practically impossible to get a reasonable (read: small) amount of soda or popcorn for a treat at the movies, and chain restaurant appetizers contain half your daily calories. Cookbook recipe portions are fucking enormous. It's obscene, and I don't think we'll see real change in obesity trends until there's a mass realization that the majority of the food industry does not want you eating healthy food in sensible portions, they want you to get really fat and shovel in 5,000 calories of junk every day.
10
@8 Yeah, I know! I'd shit my pants with glee if I could find a farmer's market where everything sold for 80 cents a pound. Which one do you go to, PC?
11
@7, not to quarrel with love, but what do you mean when you say you love fat chicks?
Details please. Because if you're a thin heterosexual woman who just "loves" fat chicks because it reaffirms her sense of superiority or because they don't compete sexually with you, or if you find them funny and cute in some way that non-fat chicks aren't, then you're going to upset some people.
But maybe you love them in a different sense. I'm curious how.
Details please. Because if you're a thin heterosexual woman who just "loves" fat chicks because it reaffirms her sense of superiority or because they don't compete sexually with you, or if you find them funny and cute in some way that non-fat chicks aren't, then you're going to upset some people.
But maybe you love them in a different sense. I'm curious how.
12
ITA with 2 and 3.
I will vouch for one point that was quoted in the post - 2 years ago I gave up drinking sodas completely (I had been drinking 1 20-oz pepsi every weekday - I don't like coffee). I didn't change a single other thing about my diet or routine, and I dropped 20 pounds in about 3 months. Of course, my metabolism has adjusted and I've gained some of it back, but I was shocked at what a difference that made.
I will vouch for one point that was quoted in the post - 2 years ago I gave up drinking sodas completely (I had been drinking 1 20-oz pepsi every weekday - I don't like coffee). I didn't change a single other thing about my diet or routine, and I dropped 20 pounds in about 3 months. Of course, my metabolism has adjusted and I've gained some of it back, but I was shocked at what a difference that made.
13
I love fat chicks served with fava beans and a nice Chianti. Otherwise i prefer they stay in their respective holes in the ground.
It puts the lotion on the skin, or else it gets the hose again.
It puts the lotion on the skin, or else it gets the hose again.
14
I have to say, when moved to Seattle I had an image that it was full of outdoorsy, healthy types but this town is choke full of fatties! What gives?
Ladies, please remember Stupid Man's Cardinal rule:
Spandex is a PRIVILEGE, not a right.
Ladies, please remember Stupid Man's Cardinal rule:
Spandex is a PRIVILEGE, not a right.
15
The article, without saying so, defines for me the conundrum with national health care and/or health insurance. How can we afford either when food corporations are actively and deliberately setting out to make Americans unhealthy?
16
I've found the opposite to be true, but I guess I mostly use sensible cookbooks.
Cookbook recipe portions are fucking enormous.
I've found the opposite to be true, but I guess I mostly use sensible cookbooks.
18
I don't think the fat acceptance movement is manufactured by the food industry. I think a lot of people are fat and are tired of feeling bad about it. That's not to say the movement can't be hijacked by the food industry at any time, or that they don't benefit from it--I'm just saying that I'm pretty sure that's not how it started.
I think a lot of people have a lot of bad habits and a lot of people aren't happy. So they eat because it's one of the few pleasures they can glean. One of the good things about fat acceptance is that it's a way to get people to stop navel-gazing and enjoy life for things other than food. But really, the same goal could be reached by promoting healthy self esteem by other means. I guess it just makes me sad to think about people not feeling empowered, so I have sympathy for people who ascribe to fat acceptance.
I think a lot of people have a lot of bad habits and a lot of people aren't happy. So they eat because it's one of the few pleasures they can glean. One of the good things about fat acceptance is that it's a way to get people to stop navel-gazing and enjoy life for things other than food. But really, the same goal could be reached by promoting healthy self esteem by other means. I guess it just makes me sad to think about people not feeling empowered, so I have sympathy for people who ascribe to fat acceptance.
19
@14
Welcome to the land of the pasty pale lard ass.
Two problems: 1.) too many lattes & mochas, 2.) not enough hot weather (not enough shame in being rotund if you can keep layers of clothes on three quarters of the year).
Welcome to the land of the pasty pale lard ass.
Two problems: 1.) too many lattes & mochas, 2.) not enough hot weather (not enough shame in being rotund if you can keep layers of clothes on three quarters of the year).
21
And if you really want to know the root cause of o-beast-ity in America its the Federal Government's direct subsidization high-fructose corn syrup.
Make sugar (and/or fat) cheap and more people eat more of it... Wonder what would happen if it were made dramatically more expensive?...
Make sugar (and/or fat) cheap and more people eat more of it... Wonder what would happen if it were made dramatically more expensive?...
22
Nice to see science and reason finally weigh in on this issue (sorry about that pun).
Bethany, I think you should take over the fat beat from Dan. He has yet to contribute anything productive to this discussion.
Bethany, I think you should take over the fat beat from Dan. He has yet to contribute anything productive to this discussion.
23
Oh... and to answer your question "Why Are We So Fat?": First, what's this "we" bullshit (I am very lean and very fit); second, because you eat too much and too much of what you eat is crap and you don't exercise enough...
24
Eh, until there is a day when most of the commenters here realize that some fat folk actually work out regularly, are hikers/bikers/kayakers, don't own cars, don't emotionally overeat because they are lonely sad fatties, have a diet that is mostly veggies from farmers markets, etc. but are still fat while there are plenty of lazy skinny people who love soda there is no point to having a discussion really. The comment thread becomes I giant "i hate teh fatties" echo chamber.
25
Not everyone who is overweight is unhappy, and I think it's disingenuous to assume that everyone in the fat acceptance movement is fat because they're eating their way through the pain or whatever.
26
@24 True, all comment threads on this topic end up sounding the same. For every overweight person I see jogging in front of my house, there are at least 2 or 3 thin people walking out of the Jack In The Box down the block with big bags of food. Having a healthy lifestyle needs to be the overarching goal, no matter what your body shape.
27
#21 makes a valid point. About the time the weight-gain in our country began to rise, was about the same time HFCS was starting to be put into everything. It was dirt-cheap stuff to put into food products.
28
@26. Exactly, and that is the unifying message that I hear from the fat acceptance movement, which makes the New Yorker's characterization so confusing.
I would love it if everyone had access to fresh produce, safe parks, etc. I thought the movie Food, Inc. did a good job of laying out the issues with how access to nutritious food is a problem in this country.
All this fat shaming bullshit is counterproductive. Fat people who are told by society to hate themselves and believe it aren't going to go for a healthy lifestyle.
I would love it if everyone had access to fresh produce, safe parks, etc. I thought the movie Food, Inc. did a good job of laying out the issues with how access to nutritious food is a problem in this country.
All this fat shaming bullshit is counterproductive. Fat people who are told by society to hate themselves and believe it aren't going to go for a healthy lifestyle.
29
"I have to say, when moved to Seattle I had an image that it was full of outdoorsy, healthy types but this town is choke full of fatties! What gives?"
Hahah, I constantly see you making posts about how Seattle women are dumpy and unattractive. You're absolutely a fat neckbearder yourself with delusions of deserving someone less unattractive than yourself. Seriously, I've lived all over the coasts and if you can't find cute people of either gender here, you're retarded. Sure, there are fat people wandering downtown, but they're either tourists or transplants from the further suburban reaches of Seattle.
Hahah, I constantly see you making posts about how Seattle women are dumpy and unattractive. You're absolutely a fat neckbearder yourself with delusions of deserving someone less unattractive than yourself. Seriously, I've lived all over the coasts and if you can't find cute people of either gender here, you're retarded. Sure, there are fat people wandering downtown, but they're either tourists or transplants from the further suburban reaches of Seattle.
30
I agree with 24 and I'd like to add that the obese or overweight people who become that way due to their lifestyles and eating habits should either admit it or try to change. It makes people who actually are predisposed to be fat look less credible.
34
I wish we could have a discussion about fat that wasn't about personal morality, too. I was obese seven years ago and today I'm not; I was not a sinner then, nor am I "saved" today. I'm still a lazy person who now happens to not be fat.
35
According to Michael Pollan's The Omnivore's Dilemma "fully one-third of our children are fed fast-food every day".
Nutrition-free food! Perhaps that's the reason for the problem. You know, just maybe.
He also pointed out that the US --like Australia, Canada and NZ-- is made up of so many cultures that we have no one strong cultural tradition of food. A tradition which elsewhere in the world points people in the right culinary direction.
This lack of cultural food norms makes the US particularly susceptible to food industry persuasion and also every newfangled scientific study of food and nutrition to hit the press. E.g. breakfast cereals, polyunsaturated fats, Atkins diet, etc.
And what @20 said too.
Nutrition-free food! Perhaps that's the reason for the problem. You know, just maybe.
He also pointed out that the US --like Australia, Canada and NZ-- is made up of so many cultures that we have no one strong cultural tradition of food. A tradition which elsewhere in the world points people in the right culinary direction.
This lack of cultural food norms makes the US particularly susceptible to food industry persuasion and also every newfangled scientific study of food and nutrition to hit the press. E.g. breakfast cereals, polyunsaturated fats, Atkins diet, etc.
And what @20 said too.
36
Perhaps we can agree that obesity is a problem both for the individual and society and at the same time agree that for many obese people loosing weight is a long term struggle a lot harder than the "eat less-exercise more" shouters want to believe.
For most of America being fat is nothing more or less than a failure of will and shaming and public humiliation are all the prods needed to make those stupid, ugly failures straighten up and fly right.
(I would wager than many of them are young men under 35-the age at which most guys start having to battle a paunch)
Some folks drop the diet pepsi and loose 20 pounds, some folks try to live on 800 calories a day and remain fat. Individual biochemistries differ and what works for one person may not work for another.
After all, if it was simple or easy few people would choose to stay fat. So a bit of understanding-you don't have to rush out and hug people whom you don't find attractive-but accepting that many many obese people have tried everything they can and still struggle with their weight would be nice.
For most of America being fat is nothing more or less than a failure of will and shaming and public humiliation are all the prods needed to make those stupid, ugly failures straighten up and fly right.
(I would wager than many of them are young men under 35-the age at which most guys start having to battle a paunch)
Some folks drop the diet pepsi and loose 20 pounds, some folks try to live on 800 calories a day and remain fat. Individual biochemistries differ and what works for one person may not work for another.
After all, if it was simple or easy few people would choose to stay fat. So a bit of understanding-you don't have to rush out and hug people whom you don't find attractive-but accepting that many many obese people have tried everything they can and still struggle with their weight would be nice.
37
Meal portions, for one thing, in the US are huge compared with other countries. One restaurant meal could easily pass 1,500 calories with wine and dessert.
I started seriously running and monitoring my diet about 2 years ago in order to get super lean, and I'd say most people would be shocked if they counted how many calories they take in each day.
I started seriously running and monitoring my diet about 2 years ago in order to get super lean, and I'd say most people would be shocked if they counted how many calories they take in each day.
38
I really don't understand people who say things like "some folks try to live on 800 calories a day and remain fat" and try to make it sound like this is anything but exceptional. How may folks like this are there? They have extremely little statistical significance. It is obvious and studies show clearly for whoever wants to look at this problem in a non-ideological way that the overwhelming majority of people gain weight because they eat more than they need. The food industry surely makes it easy to overindulge. That's their business model, and it sucks, but they still don't force anything down our throats. We need to stop playing their game and take responsibility for the quality and quantity of our food intake. It's as simple as that. Look up the studies in the bibliography of the recent book by David Kessler called "The End of Overeating" and tell me if you're not persuaded that the majority of people who are overweight are so because they overeat.
Of course, this doesn't mean we're allowed to make assumptions about an individual person with weight issues. An individual may very well eat well and exercise and still be bigger than one might expect. I agree, profiling is bad. But when we talk about public policy, and about the average person, it is perfectly legitimate to counsel smaller and healthier meals. It would have an enormous public impact, and many individual folks will be better off for it.
Of course, this doesn't mean we're allowed to make assumptions about an individual person with weight issues. An individual may very well eat well and exercise and still be bigger than one might expect. I agree, profiling is bad. But when we talk about public policy, and about the average person, it is perfectly legitimate to counsel smaller and healthier meals. It would have an enormous public impact, and many individual folks will be better off for it.
39
Oh Skeptika... Your so innocent. Don't you know that any solution that involves individuals taking personal responsibility for their actions is unacceptable?
41
In the U.S. high fructose corn syrup is like Chickenman--it's everywhere. German junk food uses potato powder where we use HFCS and is curiously filling and satisfying, whereas here even my mom's "traditional" canned soup brands leave me tired and unsatisfied, culinarily confused.
42
Your body is not exempt from the laws of thermodynamics.
Every person that says they can't lose weight is simply eating more calories than they burn. It's simple math.
Every person that says they can't lose weight is simply eating more calories than they burn. It's simple math.
43
I have to agree with Skeptika @ 38 rather than odonata @ 24. Not only do the vast majority of overweight people over eat, they also underestimate the amount of calories they consume. I was a skinny thing [underweight, actually] until I was in a car accident that left me in a wheelchair. I [stupidly] continued to eat the way I had before the accident despite the fact that I was no longer walking 5 miles every day, swimming for an hour every day during the summer and horseback riding on the weekends. As a result I piled on the weight - over 70 pounds of it.
Now I'm not in a wheelchair, I walk as much as I can [which isn't far], work out in the pool twice a week and *watch what I eat*. When I made a food diary, I was surprised how much I ate every day. But cut down on portion size and guess what? Your stomach shrinks after a short while and you aren't *able* to eat that whole bag of Doritos any more. I still have my sweets and my junk, but I measure them out and have a single portion - 1/2 cup of ice cream instead of a bowl full, that sort of thing. And, miracle of miracles I've lost 30 pounds.
I know that people are sensitive about their weight, and I have had friends who topped the scales at 300 pounds. Sure they worked out in the gym 3 times a week and had good musculature - but they also ate 3 or 4 portions worth of food at EVERY meal. The percent of people who are genitically overweight is miniscule. You may have inherited a heavy musculo-skeletal system, but if you weigh over 250#, it's because you eat too much and exercise too little.
Now I'm not in a wheelchair, I walk as much as I can [which isn't far], work out in the pool twice a week and *watch what I eat*. When I made a food diary, I was surprised how much I ate every day. But cut down on portion size and guess what? Your stomach shrinks after a short while and you aren't *able* to eat that whole bag of Doritos any more. I still have my sweets and my junk, but I measure them out and have a single portion - 1/2 cup of ice cream instead of a bowl full, that sort of thing. And, miracle of miracles I've lost 30 pounds.
I know that people are sensitive about their weight, and I have had friends who topped the scales at 300 pounds. Sure they worked out in the gym 3 times a week and had good musculature - but they also ate 3 or 4 portions worth of food at EVERY meal. The percent of people who are genitically overweight is miniscule. You may have inherited a heavy musculo-skeletal system, but if you weigh over 250#, it's because you eat too much and exercise too little.
44
When I went vegan (from lacto-ovo vegetarian), I went from a size 14 to a size 4. But if I advocate a vegan diet (for whatever reason), I typically get jumped all over (metaphorically) by people for trying to impinge upon people's choices or what have you. Why is it not OK for me to say that but OK to demand that people over some arbitrarily chosen weight/waist line limit their choices?
45
it's not a matter of being "unnacceptable" -- "personal responsibility" looks great on paper, but in some situations is not practical, particularly when ones' personal responsibility -- or lack thereof -- indirectly affects other people.
in terms of public health policy, what you "counsel" people to do means fuck all; it's what you force them to do that affects change, and unfortunately it is difficult (if not impossible) to force people to eat better. we can however do things that would strongly encourage people to eat better (like not subsidizing agriculture so heavily -- esp corn -- so food becomes more expensive). preaching personal responsibility probably makes you feel all warm and superior inside, but doesn't accomplish much.
in terms of public health policy, what you "counsel" people to do means fuck all; it's what you force them to do that affects change, and unfortunately it is difficult (if not impossible) to force people to eat better. we can however do things that would strongly encourage people to eat better (like not subsidizing agriculture so heavily -- esp corn -- so food becomes more expensive). preaching personal responsibility probably makes you feel all warm and superior inside, but doesn't accomplish much.
46
"soft drinks account for about seven per cent of all the calories ingested in the United States"
Um. That's disgusting.
Um. That's disgusting.
47
One big component of the epidemic that the article didn't go into enough is the impact of the increased amount of all refined carbohydrates in our diets, not just from HFCS and soda. I've looked at the NHANES studies recently for children 6-11, and while overall calories have increased slightly, it is not in proportion to the amount of weight gain. What has shifted is where the calories are coming from, dairy consumption has dropped, meat consumption for girls has dropped. What has increased in consumption are grains, fruit drinks and sodas (and fruit consumption for boys) . Carbs are less caloricly dense, than fats which is why perhaps why the total calories have not increased with their increased consumption. And that is why nutritionists think carbs are great to build a diet around, less calories. But what they also do well(in some) is to stimulate excessive insulin release, which then directs the calories coming in to be stored as fat instead of being metabolized by the body. So the fat cells are happy but the body still needs nourishment.
I don't want to discount psychology's role in obesity. Just as with any disease the mind and emotions plays a role. It's just that everyone likes to focus on it excessively because then will power and morality and feeling superior to the fatties gets to come in to the conversation. Yes, David Kessler in The End of Overeating has studies that support his view, but so does Gary Taubes in Good Calories, Bad Calories. Physiology affects psychology and vice versa, if we could just remember that in these discussions I think we'd get closer to actual solutions.
I don't want to discount psychology's role in obesity. Just as with any disease the mind and emotions plays a role. It's just that everyone likes to focus on it excessively because then will power and morality and feeling superior to the fatties gets to come in to the conversation. Yes, David Kessler in The End of Overeating has studies that support his view, but so does Gary Taubes in Good Calories, Bad Calories. Physiology affects psychology and vice versa, if we could just remember that in these discussions I think we'd get closer to actual solutions.
48
@8: I used to shop at farmer's markets, until I discovered Van's groceries and their ilk in around 11th and Jackson. Veggies/fruits average between 50 cents and 80 cent per lb. I got mangos for 50 cents apiece there a few days ago. Organic fujis were 89 cents a lb a few weeks ago. You sometimes have to sort through to find the good fruit, but it's worth it. They get a lot of non-standard sized/wierdly shaped produce that major grocery stores won't carry, as they have size/shape requirements.
49
There's no lack of cultural norms. Fried, deep friend, all you can eat, biggie fries, etc... These are our norms
This lack of cultural food norms makes the US particularly susceptible to food industry persuasion...
There's no lack of cultural norms. Fried, deep friend, all you can eat, biggie fries, etc... These are our norms
50
I posted this to Dan's blog, too.
The proportion of people who are "naturally" overweight (BMI between 25 and 29.9) should be approximately 14%. "Normal" weights are based on averages, and if there is a normal distribution of weights (one would assume this to be the case), 67% of people would be 1 standard deviation from the mean ("normal" weight) and 28% would be within 1-2 standard deviations of the mean (half of that is 14% in the "overweight" range, the other half is in the "underweight" range). Remember that these figures were calculated before our current obesity epidemic and also before fad diets and lots of the chemicals we find in food today.
That's no small percentage, though it is less than the current rates of overweight/obesity. If a few people out of 100 or so commentors claims that they eat healthy, exercise, and are still overweight, it might just be true.
The proportion of people who are "naturally" overweight (BMI between 25 and 29.9) should be approximately 14%. "Normal" weights are based on averages, and if there is a normal distribution of weights (one would assume this to be the case), 67% of people would be 1 standard deviation from the mean ("normal" weight) and 28% would be within 1-2 standard deviations of the mean (half of that is 14% in the "overweight" range, the other half is in the "underweight" range). Remember that these figures were calculated before our current obesity epidemic and also before fad diets and lots of the chemicals we find in food today.
That's no small percentage, though it is less than the current rates of overweight/obesity. If a few people out of 100 or so commentors claims that they eat healthy, exercise, and are still overweight, it might just be true.
51
@12 & 46: I know, crazy, right? Also from the article: “'For most people, an ice cold Coca-Cola used to be a treat reserved for special occasions,' Finkelstein observes." I thought: That's me! I live in the past! Then the next day I had an ice cold Coca-Cola, and it was really good. But not THAT good, like you are compelled to drink oceans of it constantly.
52
Why are we fat? One potential contributing factor that hasn't been brought up so far in this thread is the veritable sea of endocrine-disrupting chemicals we swim in every day. Does having a few ppb's of birth control hormones, ibuprofen, etc., etc. in your drinking water make you gain weight more easily? Dunno, nobody's studied it yet. There are SO MANY chemicals out there, and we know SO LITTLE about what most of them do to people even in isolation, ignoring possible interactions.
53
what will you all say if evolution ends up favoring fat people? if, for example, a worldwide but shortlived famine occurs that kills off all the lean skinnies who sadly do not have their own personal store of fat do dig into.
and yes, i have laid in a small supply of personal fat for my own use should the tragic event occur. i simply consider it good planning.
and yes, i have laid in a small supply of personal fat for my own use should the tragic event occur. i simply consider it good planning.
54
and also since we're speaking of people sizes and genetics -- we were, right? - why are samoans so big and filipinos so small? their native diets are similar. what's up with that? does anyone know? and are their mortality rates and health statuses, as a people, different? and why have we decided that filipino sized people are better than samoan sized people. i think i'd rather have a samoan backing me up in a fist fight though i do know some pretty mean filipinos, too. just asking.
55
This article is something I'm still turning over in my head. But I will add that if we're going to get into evolutionary war arguments, don't forget: Fat people move and react slower.
56
D made the same argument in the Michigan post. I'll rehash my response here.
We need to know exactly where the average and standard deviations land before you can verify that overweight is indeed the new normal.
And just because it's the new normal doesn't necessarily make it healthy. A lot of people eat/drink processed crap and live sedentary lives. You could be The New Normal and still be cutting your health and your lifespan short as a result of any of the above habits. You can exercise, but still take in crap that ruins your metabolism and liver. I'd think twice about those sugar substitutes, which we still aren't sure whether or not they're safe for your long term health. Since it's all chemicals and crap, I doubt it.
And to be fair, an entire sample of 100 Slog commenters is still a very skewed, statistically insignificant sample of Americans to draw any sort of correlative conclusion from, given there's 300 million Americans and those who comment on Slog are among the more educated ones with internet access. We're not even a significant sample of Seattlites (600,000 in city limits, not including suburbanites). We're not even a significant sample of people out of everyone on, say, Capitol Hill.
We need to know exactly where the average and standard deviations land before you can verify that overweight is indeed the new normal.
And just because it's the new normal doesn't necessarily make it healthy. A lot of people eat/drink processed crap and live sedentary lives. You could be The New Normal and still be cutting your health and your lifespan short as a result of any of the above habits. You can exercise, but still take in crap that ruins your metabolism and liver. I'd think twice about those sugar substitutes, which we still aren't sure whether or not they're safe for your long term health. Since it's all chemicals and crap, I doubt it.
And to be fair, an entire sample of 100 Slog commenters is still a very skewed, statistically insignificant sample of Americans to draw any sort of correlative conclusion from, given there's 300 million Americans and those who comment on Slog are among the more educated ones with internet access. We're not even a significant sample of Seattlites (600,000 in city limits, not including suburbanites). We're not even a significant sample of people out of everyone on, say, Capitol Hill.
57
i'm just planning to go slooowwly into my cave, barricade myself in with my water bottles and my blankie and let my body eat its own fat. i imagine it's going to be somewhat leisurely at that point. i'm hoping i won't need quick reflexes because my already slow metabolism will be creeping downward.
58
and finally, isn't a toxic world the new normal? what if evolution is going to favor people who can withstand massive amounts of poison, toxins, and hormones and still live long enough to breed? maybe all the people who keep themselves "pure" from chemicals will be like the cockroaches that die from DDT and not the ones that survive and then have offspring with resistance? ok, maybe my science and spelling aren't too good, but you get my point.
i will stop talking now.
i will stop talking now.
59
And until you realize that the vast majority of them don't, you probably need to rethink your POV.
Eh, until there is a day when most of the commenters here realize that some fat folk actually work out regularly, are hikers/bikers/kayakers, don't own cars, don't emotionally overeat because they are lonely sad fatties, have a diet that is mostly veggies from farmers markets, etc. but are still fat while there are plenty of lazy skinny people who love soda there is no point to having a discussion really.
And until you realize that the vast majority of them don't, you probably need to rethink your POV.
60
Went to an Iron Man triathlon thing with some southern Californians, and there was (really sorry) a strong beautiful nice and very competitive but huge person there who was a regular triathlon competitor. The joints? From the waist down, she was an extraordinary heart shape.
61
@60-Genetics can not be disregarded, and One-size-fits-all prescriptions for what people should weigh, etc... are going to be wrong for a pretty substantial minority.
That said, the average American is eating too many carbs, too much fat, and they don't move around enough during the day.
That said, the average American is eating too many carbs, too much fat, and they don't move around enough during the day.
62
@60: There are actually training groups in Puget Sound for plus-size female triathlon competitors. The one in Bellevue is called Raise the Hope. The one in Lynnwood is, humorously enough, called Women of Substance, and one of the members is 355 pounds yet does Ironman. For those who don't know what Ironman is: 2.4 mile swim, a 112 mile bike ride and a marathon (26 miles) run, raced in that order and without a break. I'd sure like to see Dan Savage's fat-bashing, pot-smoking ass try to do an Ironman.
63
I think that some of the comments here about personal responsibility are spot on. More people need to look at where they are as far as lifestyle and weight and the make a decision to make a change if necessary or just continue as they are. Someone previously mentioned that when the folks turn 35 and realize that they have a paunch and decide to do something about it. That person couldn’t be more right. Personally that is what happened to me. I looked in the mirror and did not like what I saw and decided that it was my problem to fix and began a program to get rid of the two spare tires that I was carrying.
64
Stop eating animal products such as meat, dairy and eggs. Eat lots of fruits, vegetables, nuts, beans, whole grains. Plant based diet. Have some freakin' self-control.
68
Speaking of FAT,
Dan-
Does The Stranger provide Health Insurance for it's LardAssed employees, interns and their families?
Dan-
Does The Stranger provide Health Insurance for it's LardAssed employees, interns and their families?
69
One major contributing factor that has not been brought up so far is modern sanitation and hygine. It's an unpleasant topic that no one wants to think about. Parisites. Ick. Fortunatly for us thanks to advances in modern sanitation and hygine human parisites have almost been completly erradicated in moden America. For anyone that has never raised livestock a parisite infection causes sever weight loss in an infected animal. Unless treated they can eat and eat but continue to remain malnourished because the parisite infection is taking a significant portion of the nutriants. Now consider that through history humans were also commonly infected, wouldent it be reasonable to assume that it was a strong evolutionary advantage to develop a desire to take in more calories than needed?
70
There are still a ton of impurities and even parasites in a lot of your food, Caden. Anyone who's ever done a colon or toxicity cleanse is often shocked at how much impure crap comes out of their bodies. And that's with today's advances having produced 'cleaner' food.
71
You know, if I were to cleanse my colon I'd expect a lot impure crap to come out. What the hell else am I going to keep in my ass other than shit?
72
Well, there's an interesting thought: If our food is much cleaner, then why hasn't our shit gotten less... well... shittier?
73
@64- Oreos are a plant based food.
@70- The weird stuff that comes out in a colon cleanse is the clay and fiber in the colon cleansing kit.
@70- The weird stuff that comes out in a colon cleanse is the clay and fiber in the colon cleansing kit.
74
Hey- I never said that people shouldn't eat less or exercise more. I just said that those efforts work differently for different people. My roommate walks an average of 10 miles a day and still is working on loosing over 100 (more) pounds.
As for the comment about hitting 35-I meant that the loudest voices in the "bad fatties, go away useless scum" crowd came from males under 35, who had yet to discover the painful truth that their bodies can and will change on them and that loosing that paunch can be really really hard.
As for the comment about hitting 35-I meant that the loudest voices in the "bad fatties, go away useless scum" crowd came from males under 35, who had yet to discover the painful truth that their bodies can and will change on them and that loosing that paunch can be really really hard.
76
"Every person that says they can't lose weight is simply eating more calories than they burn. It's simple math."
Unless they have lipedema: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipedema
Obviously not all obese people have this, but, ugh: "unlike the 'normal' fat of obesity, lipedemic fat cannot be lost through diet and exercise" and "There is no cure for lipedema". Imagine how much it must suck to have people looking at you thinking you are a slovenly fatty, and instead you have a medical condition that not only makes you much, much more likely to look that way, but gives you no hope of losing the weight once you have it.
It's way too easy to think "oh, those fat people are just lesser people than I. I could never let myself go like that", but the truth is, obesity has many causes and people have more control of some than others.
(I stumbled on that lipedema article when searching for something else recently, and was kind of horrified, thinking of how awful it would be to have it in our society where excess weight is typically judged as a moral failure.)
Unless they have lipedema: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipedema
Obviously not all obese people have this, but, ugh: "unlike the 'normal' fat of obesity, lipedemic fat cannot be lost through diet and exercise" and "There is no cure for lipedema". Imagine how much it must suck to have people looking at you thinking you are a slovenly fatty, and instead you have a medical condition that not only makes you much, much more likely to look that way, but gives you no hope of losing the weight once you have it.
It's way too easy to think "oh, those fat people are just lesser people than I. I could never let myself go like that", but the truth is, obesity has many causes and people have more control of some than others.
(I stumbled on that lipedema article when searching for something else recently, and was kind of horrified, thinking of how awful it would be to have it in our society where excess weight is typically judged as a moral failure.)
77
Genetics can not have changed so widely in so short a period of time. The answer lies elsewhere.
I am 6 feet tall and 140 pounds. Let's do an experiment. Bethany come live with my family for a month. Mirror what I eat and what activities I do and see what happens. You could post regular progress reports here.
I am 6 feet tall and 140 pounds. Let's do an experiment. Bethany come live with my family for a month. Mirror what I eat and what activities I do and see what happens. You could post regular progress reports here.
78
Gomez,
1. I'm not saying that 14% naturally overweight would be the NEW normal, it would be the OLD normal. The BMI was developed between 1830 and 1850. Long before Atkins, Slimquik, Apartame, and HFCS. Also long before the land of way-too-plenty of food. If we look at the averages now the "average" weight would be MUCH, MUCH higher. >20% of people are OBESE in every state except Colorado! Under the BMI (which is a large-sample statistical model subject to the central tendency theorem), only ~2.5% of the population would be obese. I'm actually arguing that under the OLD averages, a certain number of people are going to be overweight. And, as far as the BMI being an average and a certain number of people lying outside the "normal" range, why is that so hard to believe? These people exist on both sides of the spectrum, the only difference is that people who can chow down on crap and still fit into a 00 get to be models, while people who subsist on lettuce and work out 2x as much as most people and are still a size 10 get to be constantly ridiculed. Does that make the point clearer for you? Surely you know one of those "naturally skinny" people, and you don't run around telling them that they MUST be secretly only eating in public to their face, and otherwise ridiculing them. If "naturally underweight" people exist, why wouldn't "naturally overweight" people exist?
2. I'm actually not a part of the "new normal." Through extreme diet and slightly-more-than-moderate exercise, I have a BMI of 24 and am a size 8. Not exactly tiny, but definitely in the "normal" range no matter what doctor or theory you ascribe to. I also have a healthy body fat percentage of 25% (that is, in fact, healthy for a young woman). What I was saying is that it takes me A LOT of work to stay there. I don't use artificial sweeteners, though I have considered giving Stevia a whirl, and I don't eat anything with more than trace amounts of natural sweeteners (and make my own pasta sauce, peanut butter, salad dressing, etc. to be damn sure of it). My argument was that, if it takes me THAT MUCH work to be "normal," maybe my body wasn't meant to be "normal." There are others in the same boat.
3. Actually, a random sample of Sloggers isn't a bad place to start. As you admit, they are likely to be educated (i.e., capable of understanding nutrition and likely exposed to education on the subject) and have access to the internet (i.e., likely well-enough-off to afford internet access, and also decent food). You aren't going to run into too many people in a sample like that who honestly believe Sun Chips are good for them, or need to feed their family on so little money that their only choice is mac and cheese out of a box. You MIGHT run into a number of people in the "self-esteem" group, who think that they are always okay and nothing is their fault. I will concede that point.
4. My final point over on Dan's blog was that the "fat is okay" movement is not healthy or productive. We are experiencing individual and systemic problems from the number of people who are overweight/obese these days. We have to solve this crisis, but ridicule and disbelief are counterproductive. Nutrition education is going to be crucial, but with schools feeding kids crap, parents working harder than ever (no time to cook), bigAg dumping millions into advertising and lobbying, and healthy food growing ever more expensive, there's a lot more to it than simply adding a segment to health class or making fun of the size 10 girl because she's "such a heffer."
More...
1. I'm not saying that 14% naturally overweight would be the NEW normal, it would be the OLD normal. The BMI was developed between 1830 and 1850. Long before Atkins, Slimquik, Apartame, and HFCS. Also long before the land of way-too-plenty of food. If we look at the averages now the "average" weight would be MUCH, MUCH higher. >20% of people are OBESE in every state except Colorado! Under the BMI (which is a large-sample statistical model subject to the central tendency theorem), only ~2.5% of the population would be obese. I'm actually arguing that under the OLD averages, a certain number of people are going to be overweight. And, as far as the BMI being an average and a certain number of people lying outside the "normal" range, why is that so hard to believe? These people exist on both sides of the spectrum, the only difference is that people who can chow down on crap and still fit into a 00 get to be models, while people who subsist on lettuce and work out 2x as much as most people and are still a size 10 get to be constantly ridiculed. Does that make the point clearer for you? Surely you know one of those "naturally skinny" people, and you don't run around telling them that they MUST be secretly only eating in public to their face, and otherwise ridiculing them. If "naturally underweight" people exist, why wouldn't "naturally overweight" people exist?
2. I'm actually not a part of the "new normal." Through extreme diet and slightly-more-than-moderate exercise, I have a BMI of 24 and am a size 8. Not exactly tiny, but definitely in the "normal" range no matter what doctor or theory you ascribe to. I also have a healthy body fat percentage of 25% (that is, in fact, healthy for a young woman). What I was saying is that it takes me A LOT of work to stay there. I don't use artificial sweeteners, though I have considered giving Stevia a whirl, and I don't eat anything with more than trace amounts of natural sweeteners (and make my own pasta sauce, peanut butter, salad dressing, etc. to be damn sure of it). My argument was that, if it takes me THAT MUCH work to be "normal," maybe my body wasn't meant to be "normal." There are others in the same boat.
3. Actually, a random sample of Sloggers isn't a bad place to start. As you admit, they are likely to be educated (i.e., capable of understanding nutrition and likely exposed to education on the subject) and have access to the internet (i.e., likely well-enough-off to afford internet access, and also decent food). You aren't going to run into too many people in a sample like that who honestly believe Sun Chips are good for them, or need to feed their family on so little money that their only choice is mac and cheese out of a box. You MIGHT run into a number of people in the "self-esteem" group, who think that they are always okay and nothing is their fault. I will concede that point.
4. My final point over on Dan's blog was that the "fat is okay" movement is not healthy or productive. We are experiencing individual and systemic problems from the number of people who are overweight/obese these days. We have to solve this crisis, but ridicule and disbelief are counterproductive. Nutrition education is going to be crucial, but with schools feeding kids crap, parents working harder than ever (no time to cook), bigAg dumping millions into advertising and lobbying, and healthy food growing ever more expensive, there's a lot more to it than simply adding a segment to health class or making fun of the size 10 girl because she's "such a heffer."
79
You also have to be careful describing people's weight via their clothes sizes, as American clothes sizes have changed. They are doing what is known as vanity sizing. In some cases, what was a size 8 years ago is now a 0. As American have collectively gained weight, clothes makers have found that people will buy something because it say's it's a smaller size than it really is.
80
Clothing size is a useful reference point for visualization, and that's all. Most people know what an 8 looks like today, not 50 years ago. For my look-up below, I looked at the Gap size charts and apparently I'm a 6 today. I am the rare breed of woman who hates to shop (except SHOES) and haven't bought much of anything except underwear since I lost the weight 5 years ago. Also why I included the BMI. That doesn't change.
If anyone argued that we're wearing the same average sizes, so we must be fine, they would be totally delusional, though. The average weight, BMI, waist size, and waist/hip ratio have all increased dramatically, especially in the last 30 or 40 years. I have heard people say "Marylin Monroe was a 14," which of course is freaking hilarious. Her supposed measurements are quoted as being 37-23-36 (http://www.marilynmonroe.com/about/facts…). Because she was hippy and busty, her size would be bigger, but a waist size of 23 is a 00 at Gap today, the hips would push her into a 2 or 4 depending on the cut.
This is why I base my analysis that there are going to be SOME people who are going to be outside of normal no matter what they do on large, historical samples free from the dramatic and rapid changes we've seen lately and the chemical crap that passes for food these days.
If anyone argued that we're wearing the same average sizes, so we must be fine, they would be totally delusional, though. The average weight, BMI, waist size, and waist/hip ratio have all increased dramatically, especially in the last 30 or 40 years. I have heard people say "Marylin Monroe was a 14," which of course is freaking hilarious. Her supposed measurements are quoted as being 37-23-36 (http://www.marilynmonroe.com/about/facts…). Because she was hippy and busty, her size would be bigger, but a waist size of 23 is a 00 at Gap today, the hips would push her into a 2 or 4 depending on the cut.
This is why I base my analysis that there are going to be SOME people who are going to be outside of normal no matter what they do on large, historical samples free from the dramatic and rapid changes we've seen lately and the chemical crap that passes for food these days.
82
I thank you for clarifying, D.
No, I'm not being sarcastic. I do appreciate the input. Good stuff to think about.
No, I'm not being sarcastic. I do appreciate the input. Good stuff to think about.
83
@79 I think we have to be careful asserting arguments like that. Yes, it is true that sizing has changed. But, those proportions--" a size 0 was a size 8" are absurd! If a woman with a 23 inch waist is a size 0 now, then what waist size would she have been to be considered a size zero in the 50's? Toddler sized?
And I wish we WOULD STOP using Marilyn Monroe is an argument about weight or size---her measurement were extreme and are uncommon.
In other news--I sincerely wish people would start to realize that for some, struggling with obesity can be emotional and painful and a result of other mental problems. If treated as an eating disorder, I think many obese people would gain some headway into why they eat and feel the weigh they do. Because if you think about it, over eating IS disordered eating. .
And I wish we WOULD STOP using Marilyn Monroe is an argument about weight or size---her measurement were extreme and are uncommon.
In other news--I sincerely wish people would start to realize that for some, struggling with obesity can be emotional and painful and a result of other mental problems. If treated as an eating disorder, I think many obese people would gain some headway into why they eat and feel the weigh they do. Because if you think about it, over eating IS disordered eating. .
84
Ms. D,
Do you find you actually match the Gap size. I hate shopping, accept for books. So, I checked the online size chart and walked myself over to the mall to replace my jeans. I walked out in a significantly smaller size jean than their chart said I should need. Being flummoxed, I went to other stores and tried on other brands, I needed the smaller size jeans at those stores, too. I used to think that I had an idea of what a size, 0,2,3,4,6,8, etc., looked like, but now I'm not sure at all.
Do you find you actually match the Gap size. I hate shopping, accept for books. So, I checked the online size chart and walked myself over to the mall to replace my jeans. I walked out in a significantly smaller size jean than their chart said I should need. Being flummoxed, I went to other stores and tried on other brands, I needed the smaller size jeans at those stores, too. I used to think that I had an idea of what a size, 0,2,3,4,6,8, etc., looked like, but now I'm not sure at all.
85
"Not everyone who is overweight is unhappy"
I agree, fat guys can be quite jolly!
Fat ladies on the other hand....
I agree, fat guys can be quite jolly!
Fat ladies on the other hand....
87
Head up Fat commentators... Not all people are fat due to what they eat... that's right! There is a disease called LIPEDEMA that is effecting approx 6% of all obese women (it effects 99.9999999% women not men) With LIPEDEMA, which has been sited since 1940, the woman will begin to manifest usually at the end of the second decade or as early as adolesence, upon pregnancies, menopause, ( HORMONE related events)... the fat that is abnormally stored is NOT ABLE TO BE LOST WITH DIET OR EXCERCISE... its a DISEASE! These people have no idea usually that they even have this disease... your lucky to find a doctor or a researcher that had even heard the word. I've been researching this disease since the year 2000 in the US and in Europe as Germany has a very high population of women with Lipedema...
One sign of Lipedema in a woman can be that the feet are not involved in early stages at least there is often a ring at the ankle where the abnormal fat storage stops... there are many different forms and if you think you might have Lipedema you need to search and read... Psychological problems are HUGE in people who have Lipedema because they know that what they eat is not what people assume and persecute them for. Many doctors have told Lipedemic patients to simply diet and exercise which can not do anything for them. The abnormal fat actually "feels" different from the regular fat which is usually stored ABOVE the waist.
The Lipedema fat was recently discovered to have two types of cells also found in tumors... Lets all keep living in the greatest country in the world that ignores common sense food rules.. Lets keep eating meat injected with growth hormones huh? yum...
It never ceases to amaze me sadly at how many people hate post about fat people. Some are burried alive and shown no compassion at all. Consider this next time you encounter a fat person... Love is free you know and should never be hoarded because when you do it rots.
Love and Light to all...The truth will set you free!
More...
One sign of Lipedema in a woman can be that the feet are not involved in early stages at least there is often a ring at the ankle where the abnormal fat storage stops... there are many different forms and if you think you might have Lipedema you need to search and read... Psychological problems are HUGE in people who have Lipedema because they know that what they eat is not what people assume and persecute them for. Many doctors have told Lipedemic patients to simply diet and exercise which can not do anything for them. The abnormal fat actually "feels" different from the regular fat which is usually stored ABOVE the waist.
The Lipedema fat was recently discovered to have two types of cells also found in tumors... Lets all keep living in the greatest country in the world that ignores common sense food rules.. Lets keep eating meat injected with growth hormones huh? yum...
It never ceases to amaze me sadly at how many people hate post about fat people. Some are burried alive and shown no compassion at all. Consider this next time you encounter a fat person... Love is free you know and should never be hoarded because when you do it rots.
Love and Light to all...The truth will set you free!
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