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News & ArtsMonday, July 13, 2009
Savage Love There's A Word For That
Posted by Dan Savage on Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 4:15 AM
"The Way We Live Now" in the NYT Magazine yesterday:
I’m speaking as a woman here, one of those who have watched the cuckold wives (a word that technically doesn’t apply to wives; I can find nothing in the dictionary that applies to sexually betrayed women, though you would think Webster would have added one by now) and mentally placed ourselves in their shoes....In general, researchers tell us, men are more threatened by a woman having sex with another man, and women are more threatened by a man falling emotionally for another woman. Since most straying from marriage vows includes sex but does not always include love, men find it more threatening when women cheat than vice versa (which may well explain why they’ve invented a word for when it happens to men).
"Savage Love" in December 2007:
I'm a 28-year-old woman. In the past, I've been a control freak by day, sex freak by night—but just for one guy, my GGG boyfriend. Recently, I realized I'm a cuckold! Nothing gets me hotter than the thought of my boyfriend fucking somebody in front of me....Suddenly Kinky And Really Eager
The only way to get the edgy sex life you want, SKARE, is to accept that edgy sex lives involve a certain degree of risk.... So, SKARE, here's what you do: Accept that acting on your fantasies—your cuckquean fantasies (only men can be cuckolds)—involves risk.
Looking in the dictionary? Try Googling it next time. Lots more on cuckqueans here. I have other issues with Lisa Belkin's piece but I'm on vacation.
1
"...men find it more threatening when women cheat than vice versa" What? I can't imagine this is true. Women are more likely to try to get past the cheating because they are more likely to be dependent on men for their livelihood and because of concern for their children. At least that's the way I see it. As far as a term for cuckhold that's feminine, how about "betrayed" or "wronged".But cuckquean? How about cuckqette? And Dan, have a lovely vacation with your family. Try to get some rest (even though Judge Sotomayor should stir some bloated southern bloviating).
2
Enjoy your well deserved vacation, Dan - and you do deserve your well-earned break..
Hopefully nothing too outrageous happens in the news to disrupt your time off and prompt you to take up your keyboard.
Here's hoping that your vacation time will leave you rested, refreshed, and recharged.
All the best to you and yours.
Hopefully nothing too outrageous happens in the news to disrupt your time off and prompt you to take up your keyboard.
Here's hoping that your vacation time will leave you rested, refreshed, and recharged.
All the best to you and yours.
3
Belkin huffs, "you would think Webster would have added one by now."
Actually, I would think the Times would teach its reporters to Google by now...
Actually, I would think the Times would teach its reporters to Google by now...
4
Maybe Belkin is old school and waits for words to become words and not use them while they're slang. Just a thought...
5
Has this idiot never heard of the "emotional affair?" Sorry, but there are A LOT of men I know who are having emotional affairs. Soooooo many men I know are far less upset by the lack of sex in their married lives than the lack of adult conversation. Most of the men I know are very intelligent, well-educated types, and you can just see how involved they are in adult, intellectual conversations with other women, which ultimately devolves into them complaining about their wives. It might be the first step to a physical affair, but it DEFINITELY counts as emotional infidelity (for those who consider passionate, intelligent conversation a crucial aspect of a relationship...), and should, therefore, be awfully threatening to wives. Just because you're not banging someone doesn't mean you're not getting in awfully deep.
Now *I* don't consider this a big problem, but if that's her argument...
Now *I* don't consider this a big problem, but if that's her argument...
6
Love the way the article writer bitches about how men created a word for themselves being cheated on (cuckold), then berates "them" for not making one for women.
Get off your fat ass and invent it yourself instead of waiting around for men to do it for you, you lazy twat.
Get off your fat ass and invent it yourself instead of waiting around for men to do it for you, you lazy twat.
7
@5 passionate, intelligent conversation a crucial aspect of a relationship but i'm not sure that when it ultimately devolves into them complaining about their wives it's that intelligent, deep, or adult. it's conversation because often, it has to start there. the complaining is not adult - though it may be true - it's juvenile. it's not deep either. i'd like go as far to say that it's a setup for a physical affair.
8
@1, 4, 6 -
Websters's Third New International Dictionary (Unabridged) (2002) pg. 550
cuckquean n -s [cuckold + quean] obs : a woman whose husband is unfaithful to her
"quean" follows on page 1862 and is defined as prostitute
Dan's point, I believe, is that the word has long been in the dictionary (Webster's even!), but has simply fallen out of use.
Websters's Third New International Dictionary (Unabridged) (2002) pg. 550
cuckquean n -s [cuckold + quean] obs : a woman whose husband is unfaithful to her
"quean" follows on page 1862 and is defined as prostitute
Dan's point, I believe, is that the word has long been in the dictionary (Webster's even!), but has simply fallen out of use.
10
It seems to me that "cuckold" is much more common than "cuckquean" or any other word for female because it's traditionally been much more acceptable for a man to sleep around, so a woman whose husband cheats on her doesn't/didn't need a special word to denote or demean the status. Whereas a man whose wife cheats on him needs to be branded as a pathetic fool, which appears to be the connotation of "cuckold" when used in Shakespeare and the like.
It's kind of like how "drag queen" is a way, way more common term than "drag king," because there's nothing particularly notable about a woman wearing men's clothes.
It's kind of like how "drag queen" is a way, way more common term than "drag king," because there's nothing particularly notable about a woman wearing men's clothes.
11
I've read that only 1 in 9 woman actually have the sexual drive to really want and enjoy sex. So that one in 9 is usually the 'ho' kind of person who will 'betray' guys who think that she is somehow their one and only.
12
She mentions our caveman 'roots'... I thought, back in those days, it was natural for the wife to beat her husband over the head with a club when he cheated.
Must have read that wrong somewhere.
Must have read that wrong somewhere.
14
Let's just be straight, here.
By definition, women can't be cuckolded, since any children they give birth to share half their genetic makeup (unless they adopted or were a surrogate due to infertility).
Men, on the other hand, don't know if they were the genetic father of any children, so biologically there is a reason for them to have certain reactions, which society reinforces.
Gay men, luckily for them, can both marry, have children, and have sex with tons of men - and frequently women won't leave them since they tend to make ideal (and well dressed, good dancers, etc) fathers.
Now, mind you, most gay men don't choose that, but they used to "think of England" a lot more. It was expected.
By definition, women can't be cuckolded, since any children they give birth to share half their genetic makeup (unless they adopted or were a surrogate due to infertility).
Men, on the other hand, don't know if they were the genetic father of any children, so biologically there is a reason for them to have certain reactions, which society reinforces.
Gay men, luckily for them, can both marry, have children, and have sex with tons of men - and frequently women won't leave them since they tend to make ideal (and well dressed, good dancers, etc) fathers.
Now, mind you, most gay men don't choose that, but they used to "think of England" a lot more. It was expected.
16
A variant is cotquean, defined in its second sense in the 193 Webster's Unabridged as "a she-cuckold; a cucquean; a henhussy." Note also the k-less spelling of "cucquean."
Geoffry Hughes, in his "Encylopedia of Swearing," says of "cuckquean," that "to satisfy her husband’s fantasies, the innocent wife is forced to impersonate other lovers, thereby cuckolding herself," which puts the blame squarely back on the man. But your point still holds, Dan: absence of precise one-word vocabulary for an act does not mean that act does not occur. We describe many common acts in phrases or sentences: "go to the bathroom," for example.
For what it's worth, another synonym for "cuckold" is wittol is "A man who knows his wife's infidelity and submits to it; a tame cuckold; -- so called because the cuckoo lays its eggs in the wittol's nest."
Geoffry Hughes, in his "Encylopedia of Swearing," says of "cuckquean," that "to satisfy her husband’s fantasies, the innocent wife is forced to impersonate other lovers, thereby cuckolding herself," which puts the blame squarely back on the man. But your point still holds, Dan: absence of precise one-word vocabulary for an act does not mean that act does not occur. We describe many common acts in phrases or sentences: "go to the bathroom," for example.
For what it's worth, another synonym for "cuckold" is wittol is "A man who knows his wife's infidelity and submits to it; a tame cuckold; -- so called because the cuckoo lays its eggs in the wittol's nest."
17
@7 - I'm not insinuating that the complaining is mature or part of the conversation as it began. I asked one of my married, male friends about this and he said when he is having a great conversation with a lady other than his wife, it leads him to resent his wife, and all the talk about poopy diapers and why he can't do this or that or take out the trash... He misses the long nights spent analyzing the subtext of a movie or debating fiscal policy. Now, even on date night, the conversation gravitates towards the kids, the house, the finances, etc., with his wife. Also, some of these guys don't complain about their wives to the lady conversation partners, but to someone else shortly after the conversation with the "other woman."
It might lead to a physical affair. I'm totally not denying that possibility. But, I disagree with the author's thesis that women are less threatened by their men cheating because, basically, "it's only sex" for the men. For SOME men it's only sex, for SOME it's only the adult time they're missing at home, and for SOME it's both. And I think people who want to stay married (and monogamous in one way or another) would do well to remember that their relationship with their spouse is still a relationship between two adults, and cultivate what makes adult relationships best (relating on the same level, shared interests outside of diaper genies, and, of course, hot sex).
It might lead to a physical affair. I'm totally not denying that possibility. But, I disagree with the author's thesis that women are less threatened by their men cheating because, basically, "it's only sex" for the men. For SOME men it's only sex, for SOME it's only the adult time they're missing at home, and for SOME it's both. And I think people who want to stay married (and monogamous in one way or another) would do well to remember that their relationship with their spouse is still a relationship between two adults, and cultivate what makes adult relationships best (relating on the same level, shared interests outside of diaper genies, and, of course, hot sex).
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