Monday, July 13, 2009
Health Fat Chance
Posted by Dan Savage on Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 9:46 AM
More evidence that your fat ass isn't genetic:
A study of 226 families by Plymouth's Peninsula Medical School found obese mothers were 10 times more likely to have obese daughters. For fathers and sons, there was a six-fold rise. But in both cases children of the opposite sex were not affected.... Researchers said it was "highly unlikely" that genetics was playing a role in the findings as it would be unusual for them to influence children along gender lines.Instead, they said it was probably because of some form of "behavioural sympathy" where daughters copied the lifestyles of their mothers and sons their fathers.
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2
Yes, Dan, we know you're disgusted by fat people, but interrupting your vacation to make this post makes you seem a little obsessed.
3
Fat people are lowering the bar for what doctors expect in a healthy person. Now days if a person can operate their TiVo remote they're considered fit.
I know that there are some sad phycological and biological reasons why a person might be fat but the overall trend of rising obesity is absurd.
Adults are stuffing their faces with crap that isn't really food (meaning Doritos & hotdogs have no nutritional value - just because you can put it in your mouth & swallow doesn't make it food) like parentless children.
Some fat people are okay, but generally I think they are the only class of people that one can say are truly fucking this nation up.
I know that there are some sad phycological and biological reasons why a person might be fat but the overall trend of rising obesity is absurd.
Adults are stuffing their faces with crap that isn't really food (meaning Doritos & hotdogs have no nutritional value - just because you can put it in your mouth & swallow doesn't make it food) like parentless children.
Some fat people are okay, but generally I think they are the only class of people that one can say are truly fucking this nation up.
4
I have never felt sorry for those obese fatties that whine about their being fat because of genetics (as they are eating a BigMac and washing it down with a 32 oz Supersized soft drink and fries). My disdain/disgust for them and their excuses is vindicated...
6
Fantastic. That's all the evidence I need to conclude fat people are subhumans undeserving of respect.
Wait, no... I still find stocky guy attractive and skinny little twinks (or former twinks in your case) to be utterly repulsive. Got anything else?
Wait, no... I still find stocky guy attractive and skinny little twinks (or former twinks in your case) to be utterly repulsive. Got anything else?
8
I wouldn't call it behavioral sympathy. I'd call it kids being a captive audience for their fat parents' eating habits and lifestyles.
9
"We don't really move, we'd like to but... my mom is sort of attached to the house. Attached isn't really the right word, she's pretty much wedged in."
10
I'm not repulsed by fat people, but I'm repulsed by the way they talk out of one side of their mouths about all the excuses they have for being fat and on the other about how lonely, sad, and difficult life is.
Do something about it or STFU.
Do something about it or STFU.
11
So much goes into raising children, that we can't discount the impact of diet, learned behavior, etc. I often wonder if we'll ever know all the hows and whys of being human.
12
Why would it be so hard to understand? Mom eats crap, kid eats crap. Dad eats crap, kid eats crap. Fat just doesn't come from thin air no matter what your genetics are.
14
Certainly the complete absence of sex-linked genetic traits from human beings makes this story the final word. Oh, wait...
Dan, please consults with one of your many experts before writing about science.
Dan, please consults with one of your many experts before writing about science.
15
This seems a little off to me somehow, even though I'm in the "some obesity is genetic, but most is not" camp (note: I said obesity, not general size/frame or metabolism). If we're saying that obese kids are obese because of the diet/exercise habits that their parents teach them (or fail to), then wouldn't girls and boys be equally affected by that lack of teaching?
Of the families I've known over the years with overweight kids, I think it's pretty safe to say the kids were overweight because of diet/exercise-related things like the family having deep-fat fryer in their house. You'd think that would equally affect girls and boys.
But maybe I'm just thinking of "overweight" kids, not "obese" kids. Perhaps what the researchers are saying is that "obesity" (as opposed to being just overweight) is not just diet/exercise factors, but that some other emotional issue must be at play.
Of the families I've known over the years with overweight kids, I think it's pretty safe to say the kids were overweight because of diet/exercise-related things like the family having deep-fat fryer in their house. You'd think that would equally affect girls and boys.
But maybe I'm just thinking of "overweight" kids, not "obese" kids. Perhaps what the researchers are saying is that "obesity" (as opposed to being just overweight) is not just diet/exercise factors, but that some other emotional issue must be at play.
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@ 5: These images were part of my weekend trip: ski lodge, snow, hotel room 237, ax imbeded in door. I hope you had a great weekend.
17
Good point 11. I wonder how people so stupid as to think that Mountain Dew and Captain Crunch are good for toddlers, or kids at any age, survive to reproductive age.
And why the fuck most Americans seem to think that is okay parental behavior.
In seriousness though, it is very important to remember that poverty and poor education plays a major role in obesity. Just blaming fat people for being fat is funny, but it ignores the structural and institutional inequalities of our society that plaque our most vulnerable children and adults.
And why the fuck most Americans seem to think that is okay parental behavior.
In seriousness though, it is very important to remember that poverty and poor education plays a major role in obesity. Just blaming fat people for being fat is funny, but it ignores the structural and institutional inequalities of our society that plaque our most vulnerable children and adults.
18
@8 and @12 - while I agree with "captive audience" and "mom eats crap, kid eats crap", I'd expect to see the sons and daughters of an obese mom affected by that issue in the same way. So, why is there a difference?
19
so i guess that means that thin and mid-sized people aren't morally superior, they're just mommy or daddy obsessed. good to know, now maybe people can stop acting like their jean size is measure of their morality.
21
I'm with #14. Try learning a little science, you dumbfuck. Women still make the overwhelming majority of food decisions in households all over the world. If mom is fat, and fat is only behavioral, then boys' likelihood to be obese would come exclusively from mom, not dad. These data suggest that there's something on the X and Y chromosomes that affects obesity.
obese mothers were 10 times more likely to have obese daughters. For fathers and sons, there was a six-fold rise.
I'm with #14. Try learning a little science, you dumbfuck. Women still make the overwhelming majority of food decisions in households all over the world. If mom is fat, and fat is only behavioral, then boys' likelihood to be obese would come exclusively from mom, not dad. These data suggest that there's something on the X and Y chromosomes that affects obesity.
22
Careful Dan... that same argument could be used to say that being gay is even LESS likely to be genetic because most homo kids have hetero parents and most homo parents have hetero kids.
I'm in the "gay is genetic" camp, but if one were only to look at parents and kids differences, one could easily say "gay is choice."
I'm in the "gay is genetic" camp, but if one were only to look at parents and kids differences, one could easily say "gay is choice."
25
Hm, my father's parents are skinny, my mother's parents are skinny, my mom is skinny, my dad is skinny, I'm not. Then again, I'm far stronger than anyone in my family, my heart's in dang good shape, and I put on muscle much faster.
Eating all I want non-stop all day every day... or being able to lift several hundred pounds without breaking a sweat. Gosh, can't see which I'd prefer if I had to pick one or the other.
Genetics are high-larry-us.
Eating all I want non-stop all day every day... or being able to lift several hundred pounds without breaking a sweat. Gosh, can't see which I'd prefer if I had to pick one or the other.
Genetics are high-larry-us.
26
@ myself in 22,
Damn I suck at multi-tasking...
to clarify, it would argue that a son raised by gay men is more likely than a daughter to be gay, and vice versa for a lesbian couple and their son/daughter.
Damn I suck at multi-tasking...
to clarify, it would argue that a son raised by gay men is more likely than a daughter to be gay, and vice versa for a lesbian couple and their son/daughter.
27
I bet each person who is just absolutely indignant and throwing insults at Dan is fat and on the defensive.
You see, we get it. We get you. It's easy.
You see, we get it. We get you. It's easy.
28
Julie @ 18,
Perhaps, their is a link between between gender and how one copes with stress. Such as emotional eating.
Perhaps, their is a link between between gender and how one copes with stress. Such as emotional eating.
29
@18 - the researchers cite some vague 'behavioral sympathy' though it's not clear to me whether or not the research group has anyone that's qualified to assess that statement - the lead author is an endocrinologist, not a child psychologist.
I'm always disappointed that people (Dan and about 80% of the commenters) use these studies as fodder for their one-track arguments. In the battle of nature vs. nurture, it's almost a certainty that both play somewhat of a role and it's naive to think that one or the other can't affect your health. What we should take away from this study is that dietary education is of great importance, not 'ha, take that fatties.'
I'm always disappointed that people (Dan and about 80% of the commenters) use these studies as fodder for their one-track arguments. In the battle of nature vs. nurture, it's almost a certainty that both play somewhat of a role and it's naive to think that one or the other can't affect your health. What we should take away from this study is that dietary education is of great importance, not 'ha, take that fatties.'
30
There appears to be a similar trend with smoking father/sons, and mother/daughters
We find that mothers play a crucial role in determining their daughters’ smoking decisions, while fathers’ smoking habits are transmitted primarily to their sons.
http://ideas.repec.org/p/iza/izadps/dp22…
31
Gomez - I'm just saying that if one family has an obese mom and a son and another family has an obese mom and a daughter, I would expect both the son and the daughter to have a higher chance of being obese (given that both moms are not likely to teach them good habits). But, if I'm reading the study right, it says that the daughter is more likely to be obese than the son. So, why is there a difference?
I may be completely talking out of my ass here, but, I'm guessing it's because diet/exercise habits can make a kid overweight, but to be obese there has to be something extra emotional-wise going on (or, obviously, some sort of rare health defect).
I may be completely talking out of my ass here, but, I'm guessing it's because diet/exercise habits can make a kid overweight, but to be obese there has to be something extra emotional-wise going on (or, obviously, some sort of rare health defect).
32
I'd be interested to see how changes in a parent's weight would affect their children. This study isolates the parent's weight when the child is eight years old. It would be more useful to society to determine if, having established this "behavioral sympathy", it can be proven that if obese parents with obese children manage to overcome their obesity and return to a healthier weight it will have a positive effect on the weight of their children.
33
Sorry @27, I'm 6'4" 230 and nowhere near being considered fat. I just happen to be empathetic (as well as attracted) to people who aren't rail thin.
Any other pearls of wisdom you'd like to share with the group, you jackass?
Any other pearls of wisdom you'd like to share with the group, you jackass?
34
kim - I would be inclined to think that too, but the opposite was true with obese fathers (sons were more likely to be obese than daughters). This is actually pretty interesting to me -- both gender kids are captive audiences to their parents, so the fact that they are affected differently means something. Rob's smoking link makes it that much more interesting... Maybe all the theorizing is moot and it really is just as basic as daughters emulate their mothers and sons emulate their fathers.
35
Americans are fatter than ever. On one hand it is our fault because we keep shoving high fat food in our mouths. But on the other hand it isn't completely our fault when one considers how food as been genetically engineered to make us crave it. People need to change what they eat, pure and simple and we need to recogonize that eating cheap high calorie fake shit is a big cause of obesity in this country.
36
Julie,
That's where I was going. The idea being that daughters would be more likely to emulate their mothers coping mechanisms, and the sons more likely to emulate their fathers. I was thinking of my own upbringing, my mom's an emotional eater (and obese) and I learned that a bad day deserves dessert and a lot of it. My husband learned that running was the cure for a bad day growing up (his dad is physically fit soon to be 80 year old). Thankfully, I decided to adopt my husbands method, and at present all four of us (we have two kids) are physically fit.
That's where I was going. The idea being that daughters would be more likely to emulate their mothers coping mechanisms, and the sons more likely to emulate their fathers. I was thinking of my own upbringing, my mom's an emotional eater (and obese) and I learned that a bad day deserves dessert and a lot of it. My husband learned that running was the cure for a bad day growing up (his dad is physically fit soon to be 80 year old). Thankfully, I decided to adopt my husbands method, and at present all four of us (we have two kids) are physically fit.
37
@21 - "Try learning a little science, you dumbfuck ... These data suggest that there's something on the X and Y chromosomes that affects obesity."
Actually, no, it doesn't. Something on the Y chromosome would explain fat dads having fat boys. But sex-linked traits don't explain how fat moms wouldn't have fat boys, since both male and female children could have the mother's X chromosome. Your claim that fat-as-learned-behavior would necessarily be caused by moms doesn't fly either, since it makes huge assumptions about how eating habits are learned. (So what if mom makes the decisions about dinner? Why wouldn't a male child learn how a male is supposed to eat by watching his father's behavior?)
Speaking of learning a little science ...
Actually, no, it doesn't. Something on the Y chromosome would explain fat dads having fat boys. But sex-linked traits don't explain how fat moms wouldn't have fat boys, since both male and female children could have the mother's X chromosome. Your claim that fat-as-learned-behavior would necessarily be caused by moms doesn't fly either, since it makes huge assumptions about how eating habits are learned. (So what if mom makes the decisions about dinner? Why wouldn't a male child learn how a male is supposed to eat by watching his father's behavior?)
Speaking of learning a little science ...
38
One would think they could actually test their nature vs. nurture hypothesis by studying girls who were not raised by their bio moms and boys who were not raised by their bio dads... That would be, you know, actual scientific evidence rather than speculation.
39
Oh, please! Like fat people are stupid and don't know what's good for them to eat vs. what's bad to eat. The info is EVERYWHERE.
That's like saying smokers don't know they're sucking on cancer sticks. As Dan is so fond of saying regarding sex, every day we all take calculated risks. We decide that we want to trade a little danger for a little fun. For some, that's fucking strangers, for others it's sucking lit cancer sticks, for a lot of people it's fried food/sweets/not exercising, etc.
The "cure" isn't teaching fat people what's good for them...they know. It's not about education, it's about motivation. And nothing extrinsic is going to make a difference.
That's like saying smokers don't know they're sucking on cancer sticks. As Dan is so fond of saying regarding sex, every day we all take calculated risks. We decide that we want to trade a little danger for a little fun. For some, that's fucking strangers, for others it's sucking lit cancer sticks, for a lot of people it's fried food/sweets/not exercising, etc.
The "cure" isn't teaching fat people what's good for them...they know. It's not about education, it's about motivation. And nothing extrinsic is going to make a difference.
40
I swear that if I have a kid I will eat organic foods in appropriate portions and never talk about being too fat. That is my vow. Because of that challenge I probably will never have children.
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@33: Your BMI is 28, which falls at the high end of the "overweight" range, trending toward obese. Give it a few years.
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@39 You're talking about adults. This study, and the comment about education above, has to do with kids. Who, until a certain age, will learn only what their parents teach them about diet/exercise. And, even if their school offers a good PE and health curriculum, they still might be going home to parents who do nothing to reinforce that education (and may be actively working against it).
My parents did a good job of setting good examples regarding food and exercise (my dad was normal weight but had high cholesterol, so all of us ate healthy). But, I could see how, if your parents fed you crap until you were a teenager and knew better, it could be very difficult to break those eating habits, even if you then know what's good vs. bad to eat.
My parents did a good job of setting good examples regarding food and exercise (my dad was normal weight but had high cholesterol, so all of us ate healthy). But, I could see how, if your parents fed you crap until you were a teenager and knew better, it could be very difficult to break those eating habits, even if you then know what's good vs. bad to eat.
43
The more you hate on fat people Dan the more I could care less about gay rights. Why you feel the need to constantly disparage fat people is mystifying to me.
44
@ #43
Another fatty playing the blame game instead of taking responsibility for their obesity.
S’pose you’re now going to drown your rage in a gallon of cookies-n-cream ice cream and a bag of Nacho Cheese Dorrito’s…
Dan is just the messenger- I didn't see anything akin to "hate" on his part.
Stop making excuses for yourself. Stop overeating. And get some f'ricking exercise!!!
Another fatty playing the blame game instead of taking responsibility for their obesity.
S’pose you’re now going to drown your rage in a gallon of cookies-n-cream ice cream and a bag of Nacho Cheese Dorrito’s…
Dan is just the messenger- I didn't see anything akin to "hate" on his part.
Stop making excuses for yourself. Stop overeating. And get some f'ricking exercise!!!
46
@39
I understand where you're coming from. Most adults generally know what is good for them and what isn't, and are willing to take risks.
HOWEVER
I agree with Julie, When I was younger, I learned about nutrition, but my parents let me eat crap, and I still crave it all the time and struggle with making healthy choices. I would like to eat healthy food all the time, but my body has been trained to crave the high fructose corn syrup shit that I was raised with. We should raise kids with healthy foods, and let them choose to take the risks once they know about them.
I understand where you're coming from. Most adults generally know what is good for them and what isn't, and are willing to take risks.
HOWEVER
I agree with Julie, When I was younger, I learned about nutrition, but my parents let me eat crap, and I still crave it all the time and struggle with making healthy choices. I would like to eat healthy food all the time, but my body has been trained to crave the high fructose corn syrup shit that I was raised with. We should raise kids with healthy foods, and let them choose to take the risks once they know about them.
47
Waist size and BMI do not correlate with friendship, love, and compassion. Thick or thin, how we treat each other is ultimately what we remember of each other.
48
Why he feels it's appropriate to disparage fat people for living a lifestyle he finds disgusting when he himself whines constantly about being disparaged for living a lifestyle others find disgusting is what mystifies me.
As for the whole "oh no, fat people might have fat kids!" cry me a river. It's better than the rising incidences of eating disorders such as anorexia in children because your whole "food is bad!" bullshit has them so confused they don't think it's ok to eat ANYTHING.
As for the whole "oh no, fat people might have fat kids!" cry me a river. It's better than the rising incidences of eating disorders such as anorexia in children because your whole "food is bad!" bullshit has them so confused they don't think it's ok to eat ANYTHING.
49
More evidence that *most people*'s fat asses aren't genetic. I can't decide if Dan is pro-health or anti-fat-folks. I'm not one of those "fat and proud" people, but I ain't snarfing down Krispy Kremes either. As someone who has an actual disorder, for which I'm on all kindsa drugs, it's a drag to log on & find the occasional mocking of fat people.
But. Most of the country's lard is indeed earned at the Burger King drive-thru window & lack of moving. Even I, w/ my cards stacked against me, bought a Wii Fit & have lost a little weight.
We should all pay more attention to what we eat, eat only food (ie, things we can understand the ingredient list of) & learn better ways of dealin' w/ stress than cookies/burgers/pizza, etc.
But. Most of the country's lard is indeed earned at the Burger King drive-thru window & lack of moving. Even I, w/ my cards stacked against me, bought a Wii Fit & have lost a little weight.
We should all pay more attention to what we eat, eat only food (ie, things we can understand the ingredient list of) & learn better ways of dealin' w/ stress than cookies/burgers/pizza, etc.
51
Um, this isn't the first time the causes of obesity has been studied. There have been hundreds of studies backed by strong science (including studies of twins raised together/twins raised apart) that show over 50% of the variability in obesity is genetic. 40-50% of the variability of almost all personality traits is genetically determined, and obesity surpasses the standard genetic correlation (that is, it's even more genetically determined than how shy or how angry or how confident you are).
If this one study, published by a podunk medical/dental college that was founded a whole NINE years ago in 2000, goes against every other study published by the best and most established universities in the world, chances are this study is drawing the wrong conclusions, or their method is erroneous. They began this study when the college was less than one year old.
Also, if the results section of the scientific article starts with the phrase "There were big differences..." chances are the people who wrote it aren't well-versed in science. (Hint: "Big differences" isn't a scientific term.)
Article abstract: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19434…
If this one study, published by a podunk medical/dental college that was founded a whole NINE years ago in 2000, goes against every other study published by the best and most established universities in the world, chances are this study is drawing the wrong conclusions, or their method is erroneous. They began this study when the college was less than one year old.
Also, if the results section of the scientific article starts with the phrase "There were big differences..." chances are the people who wrote it aren't well-versed in science. (Hint: "Big differences" isn't a scientific term.)
Article abstract: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19434…
52
@ 48 = whoa. Gay DNE obesity.
Being gay is NOT a lifestyle choice, anymore than being straight is a choice. Just - guys are attracted to guys, girls are attracgted to girls, there you are. It's an orientation. One doesn't choose it.
Obesity IS largely a choice (despite my kvetching above about my own health issues) & shaped by environment. If it wasn't, then it would be a worldwide epidemic. Obesity tends to hit other countries right around when American fast-food chains do. Our jobs have us planted in computer chairs; our downtime (for many) is spent in front of the TV; & as @ 35 pointed out, food is a huge industry. Processed food especially has been designed to play on the worst in our palates. We choose to eat those foods.
Are there some bi people who just tire of the opposite gender & "choose" being gay. Yes. Are there some overweight people who have *less* control over their weight, due to medical conditions? Yes. But that's not the norm. Bad comparison.
Being gay is NOT a lifestyle choice, anymore than being straight is a choice. Just - guys are attracted to guys, girls are attracgted to girls, there you are. It's an orientation. One doesn't choose it.
Obesity IS largely a choice (despite my kvetching above about my own health issues) & shaped by environment. If it wasn't, then it would be a worldwide epidemic. Obesity tends to hit other countries right around when American fast-food chains do. Our jobs have us planted in computer chairs; our downtime (for many) is spent in front of the TV; & as @ 35 pointed out, food is a huge industry. Processed food especially has been designed to play on the worst in our palates. We choose to eat those foods.
Are there some bi people who just tire of the opposite gender & "choose" being gay. Yes. Are there some overweight people who have *less* control over their weight, due to medical conditions? Yes. But that's not the norm. Bad comparison.
53
From an actual, strong scientific article about the genetic heredity of obesity (with a bonus description of the actual genes and proteins that cause genetic obesity):
Twin studies (comparing identical twins raised together vs. identical twins raised apart, comparing identical vs. fraternal twins) and adoption studies (comparing adopted children vs. the biological parents they have never met) are the best ways to determine the genetic determinants of behavior and biology. Of course, short of actually going in and finding the genes. All of the above have been done for obesity, showing that obesity is highly hereditary (genetic).
http://epirev.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/con…
Twin, adoption, and family studies have established that obesity is highly heritable, and an individual's risk of obesity is increased when one has relatives who are obese (27–29). Heritability estimates ranged from 16 percent to 85 percent for body mass index (30–34), from 37 percent to 81 percent for waist circumference (35–37), from 6 percent to 30 percent for WHR (38–40), and from 35 percent to 63 percent for percentage body fat (40–43). The Framingham Heart Study reported a moderate heritability estimate for body mass index (40–50 percent) (32). In contrast, the National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute family heart study and twin studies observed higher estimates of heritability for body mass index (40–80 percent), and they also reported a heritability of 70–80 percent for weight gain (27, 44–46).
Twin studies (comparing identical twins raised together vs. identical twins raised apart, comparing identical vs. fraternal twins) and adoption studies (comparing adopted children vs. the biological parents they have never met) are the best ways to determine the genetic determinants of behavior and biology. Of course, short of actually going in and finding the genes. All of the above have been done for obesity, showing that obesity is highly hereditary (genetic).
http://epirev.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/con…
54
#52: Actually, homosexuality is probably less strictly genetic than obesity. Not that it should matter with public policy or how people are treated. Just stop condemning people for who they are, no matter what caused them to be obese or lesbian or gay or shy or whatever.
If you want to give people a pass if something is genetic but not if it's not, homoPHOBIA is also highly heritable based on twin/gene studies.
Heritability of homosexuality (less than 50%): http://psycnet.apa.org/?fa=main.doiLandi…
Heritability of homophobia (also less than 50%): http://www.springerlink.com/content/0tk1…
If you want to give people a pass if something is genetic but not if it's not, homoPHOBIA is also highly heritable based on twin/gene studies.
Genetic modelling showed that variation in homophobia scores could be explained by additive genetic (36%), shared environmental (18%) and unique environmental factors (46%).
Heritability of homosexuality (less than 50%): http://psycnet.apa.org/?fa=main.doiLandi…
Heritability of homophobia (also less than 50%): http://www.springerlink.com/content/0tk1…
55
If obesity highly genetic, why are there so many morbidly obese people & children here, where food is starchy, processed, etc & less in other countries?
57
A tale of multiple causes.
Person #1 - male, father is thin, used to be fat, now thin, eats like crap (I have watched him eat 1/2 gallon of ice cream in a sitting, they own a deep fryer that gets daily use, they think I'm crazy 'cause I take the skin off my chicken).
Person #2 - his sister, mother overweight, used to be fatter, now high end of normal BMI, gains a pound every time she thinks of anything more fattening than celery sticks.
Person #3 - sister-in-law, mother and father probably high end of normal weight, has always been obese, still is obese, shovels crap into her mouth by the spoon/forkful, hardly exercises.
My brother and I are very close in age, and he used to be fat, so I don't think there's a "metabolism catching up with you" argument to be made. I walk something like 4 miles a day, play sports, and over 1/2 of my diet is raw or lightly steamed vegetables. Analysis of my diet by a clinician revealed that I eat only about 1100 calories a day. On the brother's side, just what I said. Ice cream, cake, cookies, tater tots, white bread, whole milk, soda...all day, every day. He lives in the suburbs, drives everywhere, and has a desk job.
So...once again...what causes certain people to be the size that they are? Certainly, sister-in-law illustrates that choices play a role. However, my own personal situation indicates that genetics can be to blame for a certain level of it. It's extremely difficult for me to stay within the bounds of a normal weight, and I spend a lot of time watching other people eat cake on my birthday and drink beer (I can only drink one or two zero-calorie diet soda or soda water and whiskey or straight liquor drinks a week, or the weight starts creeping up...I tried wine and that packs on the pounds, too). Can you understand how someone with that situation might find it awfully difficult to sacrifice that much? Do you skip the champaign when you fly business, or bring your own water to a softball game because you can't drink beer or gatorade? Did you skip the fancy cupcakes on your boss's birthday? Do you spend a lot of time looking like you're eating things at corporate lunches, but really just pushing them around your plate because you know that you can't have any rice, bread, red meat, potatoes, etc., etc., etc.?
More...
Person #1 - male, father is thin, used to be fat, now thin, eats like crap (I have watched him eat 1/2 gallon of ice cream in a sitting, they own a deep fryer that gets daily use, they think I'm crazy 'cause I take the skin off my chicken).
Person #2 - his sister, mother overweight, used to be fatter, now high end of normal BMI, gains a pound every time she thinks of anything more fattening than celery sticks.
Person #3 - sister-in-law, mother and father probably high end of normal weight, has always been obese, still is obese, shovels crap into her mouth by the spoon/forkful, hardly exercises.
My brother and I are very close in age, and he used to be fat, so I don't think there's a "metabolism catching up with you" argument to be made. I walk something like 4 miles a day, play sports, and over 1/2 of my diet is raw or lightly steamed vegetables. Analysis of my diet by a clinician revealed that I eat only about 1100 calories a day. On the brother's side, just what I said. Ice cream, cake, cookies, tater tots, white bread, whole milk, soda...all day, every day. He lives in the suburbs, drives everywhere, and has a desk job.
So...once again...what causes certain people to be the size that they are? Certainly, sister-in-law illustrates that choices play a role. However, my own personal situation indicates that genetics can be to blame for a certain level of it. It's extremely difficult for me to stay within the bounds of a normal weight, and I spend a lot of time watching other people eat cake on my birthday and drink beer (I can only drink one or two zero-calorie diet soda or soda water and whiskey or straight liquor drinks a week, or the weight starts creeping up...I tried wine and that packs on the pounds, too). Can you understand how someone with that situation might find it awfully difficult to sacrifice that much? Do you skip the champaign when you fly business, or bring your own water to a softball game because you can't drink beer or gatorade? Did you skip the fancy cupcakes on your boss's birthday? Do you spend a lot of time looking like you're eating things at corporate lunches, but really just pushing them around your plate because you know that you can't have any rice, bread, red meat, potatoes, etc., etc., etc.?
58
@55 False dichotomy. Heritability explains over 50% of the variability in obesity, but not 100% of it. Obviously, diet and exercise still play a role, and lizzie never claimed otherwise.
59
@39 - great point about smokers. Please note that obesity is the number one cause of health care problems now, surpassing smoking. And given our incredible health care system... that means your (well not yours, 39, but generally) lazy fast food addiction isn't just a personal problem.
@48 - you don't get to talk if you don't pay attention to the article and thread on which you're commenting. The whole point is that your fat ass ISN'T genetic. Being gay is. Your ass is a lifestyle. What Dan does with his isn't.
@48 - you don't get to talk if you don't pay attention to the article and thread on which you're commenting. The whole point is that your fat ass ISN'T genetic. Being gay is. Your ass is a lifestyle. What Dan does with his isn't.
60
If you look at the trends over the last few decades, and the increase in obesity, it's hard to say that the majority of people inherited the problem. It's more lifestyle changes over that time period. More and more people sit around and eat junk. They opt to watch TV, surf the internet, and play video games with a bag of chips, and a sugary drink at their sides, over getting up and moving.
http://explorepdx.com/obesity_ani7.gif
http://explorepdx.com/obesity.html
http://explorepdx.com/obesity_ani7.gif
http://explorepdx.com/obesity.html
61
If obesity highly genetic, why are there so many morbidly obese people & children here, where food is starchy, processed, etc & less in other countries?
We're comparing people in a certain society -- the studies I linked to looked at Americans, Europeans, and Australians, mostly.
Obviously, you'll find less obesity in a country where malnutrition is prevalent, just like you'll find less homosexuality in a country where homosexuality is strictly punished (like Iran or Jamaica). That doesn't mean obesity or homosexuality is less genetically determined in those countries, just that it is less prevalent due to restricting factors.
As for "starchy, processed, etc" -- Mexico recently tied or surpassed the USA to become #1 in the world in obesity, after having almost no obesity as recently as 15 years ago. This has nothing to do with starches as the traditional diet was based on corn, rice/grains, and beans (all of which have declined in the Mexican diet). It has everything to do with meat and soda............. but I guess that's a comment for a different thread.
62
Actually Mexico's obesity problems are junk food related, just like ours. Cheap high fat, sugar, and salt snacks have become much more available in Mexico, and they sit around a lot more.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/…
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/…
63
I don't know if that last comment was clear.
Genetics and heredity play a large part in determining WHO in a society is obese (or gay, or shy, or tall, or transgender).
Society and culture and resources determine HOW PREVALENT obesity (or homosexuality, or shyness, or average height, or transgenderism) is in a society.
Hardly anyone in Somalia is obese, but if we flooded them with cheap fast food and soda pop obesity would surely skyrocket. If we had the resources, we could screen the genes of everyone in Somalia and make decent guesses WHO would become obese in this situation.
Genetics and heredity play a large part in determining WHO in a society is obese (or gay, or shy, or tall, or transgender).
Society and culture and resources determine HOW PREVALENT obesity (or homosexuality, or shyness, or average height, or transgenderism) is in a society.
Hardly anyone in Somalia is obese, but if we flooded them with cheap fast food and soda pop obesity would surely skyrocket. If we had the resources, we could screen the genes of everyone in Somalia and make decent guesses WHO would become obese in this situation.
64
Obesity is only genetic in that people who eat a lot of fatty, sugary foods will tend to gain more weight than people who don't, and that people who don't get exercise will tend to gain more weigh than people who do.
So the 'obesity = genetics' may have a point :P
So the 'obesity = genetics' may have a point :P
65
'obesity = genetics' camp, that is
What's with my verbs and articles disappearing from sentences? I'll blame genetics :P
What's with my verbs and articles disappearing from sentences? I'll blame genetics :P
66
Ms. D. - I hear you. There's obviously a genetic/innate component to your frame-size and your base metabolism (we all know people who can eat only cheeseburgers and cookies and be rail thin). I don't have it quite so bad as you seem to, but I do have to work harder than the average person to stay "normal"-sized (and if I want to occasionally have things like dessert and cheese, which I do, it means that much more time in the gym).
In other words, my "set point" with a reasonable focus on diet and exercise is about a size 10 (if I'm training for something, it's an 8, if I go through a lazy period, it's a 12). I have friends whose "set point" is a size 2. So, there's natural variation there, sure, but I think it's probably pretty rare for someone's "set point" to be "obese" (maybe <5%?). Much rarer than whatever the current prevalence of obesity is... It happens, certainly, but I don't think it's an excuse that the majority of obese people can use.
In other words, my "set point" with a reasonable focus on diet and exercise is about a size 10 (if I'm training for something, it's an 8, if I go through a lazy period, it's a 12). I have friends whose "set point" is a size 2. So, there's natural variation there, sure, but I think it's probably pretty rare for someone's "set point" to be "obese" (maybe <5%?). Much rarer than whatever the current prevalence of obesity is... It happens, certainly, but I don't think it's an excuse that the majority of obese people can use.
67
48: This isn't an argument that fat people are pathetic and gross and we should all laugh at them. It's an argument against the idea that there's nothing a fat person can do about being fat.
Dan always argues (and I agree with him) that it's fine to have a poor diet and be fat, but you have to own it. If you feel it's worth the health risks to be able to eat whatever you want in whatever portions you want, go for it. Just like how it's worth the health risks for the excitement of skydiving, kayaking, sex with strangers, etc.
What you shouldn't do is deny the existence of health risks linked to obesity, or (in this case) deny the link between diet and obesity. That's not an argument for hating fat people; it's an argument for accuracy. If you want to argue that fat people can be attractive or that there's nothing wrong with them, great. If you want to argue that weighing 400lbs is the pinnacle of health and that Big Macs don't cause weight gain, that's where you lose my support. See the difference? You also do a disservice to people whose obesity really is due to some sort of genetic or physiological condition rather than their lifestyle.
That being said, I have my own doubts about this particular study. The smoking study that Rob links to definitely gives it a little more strength, but even still, it looks shoddy. Like someone pointed out earlier, nobody mentions any observations made on children raised by foster parents, or even children raised by an opposite-sex single parent. It doesn't take into account the huge variance that exists in how children look to their parents for behavior guidelines. It's weak.
Though that's not to say that I believe the opposite; that obesity is genetic and sex-linked, because that would be a wild conclusion to jump to at this point also. Like someone else pointed out, sex-linked traits that come from the X chromosome would affect both sons and daughters, not just daughters. If they come from the Y chromosome, they would affect sons exclusively, and in even higher numbers than the study cites.
That's the thing about a weak study; you can't conclude for or against it. You just have to forget about it and move back to square one: we know that there are some nature and some nurture causes of obesity. We know that "nurture" causes are the biggest reasons that obesity happens in such huge numbers in the US. We know that most of these "nurture" causes are things like poor diet and too little exercise. We know that such obesity can lead to health problems. We know that if someone wants to go ahead and have their fried chicken despite all this, that's ok. I'll still hang out with you and I won't make fun of you, and while I won't fuck you, plenty of people will. We also know, however, that you can't go around saying that the fried chicken you eat is healthy and has nothing to do with weight gain in anyone.
More...
Dan always argues (and I agree with him) that it's fine to have a poor diet and be fat, but you have to own it. If you feel it's worth the health risks to be able to eat whatever you want in whatever portions you want, go for it. Just like how it's worth the health risks for the excitement of skydiving, kayaking, sex with strangers, etc.
What you shouldn't do is deny the existence of health risks linked to obesity, or (in this case) deny the link between diet and obesity. That's not an argument for hating fat people; it's an argument for accuracy. If you want to argue that fat people can be attractive or that there's nothing wrong with them, great. If you want to argue that weighing 400lbs is the pinnacle of health and that Big Macs don't cause weight gain, that's where you lose my support. See the difference? You also do a disservice to people whose obesity really is due to some sort of genetic or physiological condition rather than their lifestyle.
That being said, I have my own doubts about this particular study. The smoking study that Rob links to definitely gives it a little more strength, but even still, it looks shoddy. Like someone pointed out earlier, nobody mentions any observations made on children raised by foster parents, or even children raised by an opposite-sex single parent. It doesn't take into account the huge variance that exists in how children look to their parents for behavior guidelines. It's weak.
Though that's not to say that I believe the opposite; that obesity is genetic and sex-linked, because that would be a wild conclusion to jump to at this point also. Like someone else pointed out, sex-linked traits that come from the X chromosome would affect both sons and daughters, not just daughters. If they come from the Y chromosome, they would affect sons exclusively, and in even higher numbers than the study cites.
That's the thing about a weak study; you can't conclude for or against it. You just have to forget about it and move back to square one: we know that there are some nature and some nurture causes of obesity. We know that "nurture" causes are the biggest reasons that obesity happens in such huge numbers in the US. We know that most of these "nurture" causes are things like poor diet and too little exercise. We know that such obesity can lead to health problems. We know that if someone wants to go ahead and have their fried chicken despite all this, that's ok. I'll still hang out with you and I won't make fun of you, and while I won't fuck you, plenty of people will. We also know, however, that you can't go around saying that the fried chicken you eat is healthy and has nothing to do with weight gain in anyone.
68
The vast majority of people will be able to maintain a healthy weight if they eat a reasonable diet, (You don't have to be perfect) and if they spend 20 to 30 minutes a few days a week exercising. It doesn't have to be some super elaborate routine. Fewer and fewer people are doing this, and the obesity rates are rising as a result. I have a friend who lost 50lbs just by trading a half hour of TV for time on a Wii Fit 4 or 5 days a week, and eating less junk food. Even skinny people should exercise, and eat right.
69
That was very well-said Bonefish @67.
And Rob, while I totally agree with you, there do exist people for whom 20-30 mins a few days a week and a reasonable-but-not-perfect diet are not sufficient to maintain a "normal"/healthy weight (they are the minority, as you acknowledged, but they're there). There is natural variation, but it's my opinion that this variation does not extend to "obese" for anyone except a very small percentage of people. Anyways, I think the fact that this variation exists sometimes leads obese people to think/say that there's "nothing they can do", as bonefish said, even when their obesity is caused more by "nurture" factors than "nature".
And Rob, while I totally agree with you, there do exist people for whom 20-30 mins a few days a week and a reasonable-but-not-perfect diet are not sufficient to maintain a "normal"/healthy weight (they are the minority, as you acknowledged, but they're there). There is natural variation, but it's my opinion that this variation does not extend to "obese" for anyone except a very small percentage of people. Anyways, I think the fact that this variation exists sometimes leads obese people to think/say that there's "nothing they can do", as bonefish said, even when their obesity is caused more by "nurture" factors than "nature".
70
53:
That's some huge variance in their heritability estimates there. I don't doubt that there are genetic components to obesity, but that study needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
And 54, studies that try and determine the "heritability" for things like identity and personal beliefs are tricky. They operate under the assumption that they can account for all the social factors that go into such things, when they actually don't. For instance, the study of "heritability" of homosexuality assumes that there is absolutely nothing to stop a homosexual from identifying as homosexual, which is clearly not the case. You can't cite evidence that homosexual identity isn't heritable and claim it to mean that actual homosexuality isn't heritable, either.
The homophobia study is absolutely bogus. All they did was have about 4600 twins fill out a questionnaire about how they feel about gays. There's nothing in there about control groups where unrelated people are raised by the same parents or where identical twins are raised by different parents (and whether or not those different parents would raise one twin with homophobic teachings and another with gay-friendly teachings). They just asked some questions and assumed chalked up any common answer by the twins as evidence towards "heritable" beliefs. Nobody took into account the possibility that twins might be raised by the same parents (and therefore taught similar things), that their circle of friends could be the same (or vastly different), etc.
And even if they had taken "separated" twins where one was raised by homophobes and another by non-homophobes, it would still be tricky to determine whether any overlap in their beliefs is genetic or not. Maybe the non-homophobes are less avid than the homophobes, allowing some overlap. Maybe the twin raised by homophobes hangs out with kids who know better, and vice versa for the one raised by non-homophobes. Maybe they're both being raised in the same society, and are therefore getting similar messages about homosexuality from their culture, if not their parents. But this is all moot, because they didn't even go THAT far! Just don't cite that study again; it's a sham.
More...
That's some huge variance in their heritability estimates there. I don't doubt that there are genetic components to obesity, but that study needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
And 54, studies that try and determine the "heritability" for things like identity and personal beliefs are tricky. They operate under the assumption that they can account for all the social factors that go into such things, when they actually don't. For instance, the study of "heritability" of homosexuality assumes that there is absolutely nothing to stop a homosexual from identifying as homosexual, which is clearly not the case. You can't cite evidence that homosexual identity isn't heritable and claim it to mean that actual homosexuality isn't heritable, either.
The homophobia study is absolutely bogus. All they did was have about 4600 twins fill out a questionnaire about how they feel about gays. There's nothing in there about control groups where unrelated people are raised by the same parents or where identical twins are raised by different parents (and whether or not those different parents would raise one twin with homophobic teachings and another with gay-friendly teachings). They just asked some questions and assumed chalked up any common answer by the twins as evidence towards "heritable" beliefs. Nobody took into account the possibility that twins might be raised by the same parents (and therefore taught similar things), that their circle of friends could be the same (or vastly different), etc.
And even if they had taken "separated" twins where one was raised by homophobes and another by non-homophobes, it would still be tricky to determine whether any overlap in their beliefs is genetic or not. Maybe the non-homophobes are less avid than the homophobes, allowing some overlap. Maybe the twin raised by homophobes hangs out with kids who know better, and vice versa for the one raised by non-homophobes. Maybe they're both being raised in the same society, and are therefore getting similar messages about homosexuality from their culture, if not their parents. But this is all moot, because they didn't even go THAT far! Just don't cite that study again; it's a sham.
71
God damn, for this slog to rattle on like this makes me think that some people have no sense of humor. Since people seem to have heads as thick as their waistlines, I'd say resolving the obesity problem is hopeless.
Again I want to stress that poverty is a major factor. Soda is cheeper than orange juice. And education is also part of the problem. As I recall the public schools still sell soda and candy bars in vending machines. Of course people are getting fat, most of them eat like shit.
Eating right and getting real exercise is vital - if the Wii Fit is working for some fine but I think it would be better if people unplugged themselves from their fucking video games and online dating networks and got outside to breath some fresh air!
Lazy baterds -
Those of you with biological and phycological issues associated with weight, I'm not talking about you - And for those of you who think we're hatin on fatties because we want to see skin and bones that's not true either. I'd rather see a healthy, slightly over weight person than an anorexic. But we shouldn't be excusing this growing trend of fat type two diabetes children as normal.
Again I want to stress that poverty is a major factor. Soda is cheeper than orange juice. And education is also part of the problem. As I recall the public schools still sell soda and candy bars in vending machines. Of course people are getting fat, most of them eat like shit.
Eating right and getting real exercise is vital - if the Wii Fit is working for some fine but I think it would be better if people unplugged themselves from their fucking video games and online dating networks and got outside to breath some fresh air!
Lazy baterds -
Those of you with biological and phycological issues associated with weight, I'm not talking about you - And for those of you who think we're hatin on fatties because we want to see skin and bones that's not true either. I'd rather see a healthy, slightly over weight person than an anorexic. But we shouldn't be excusing this growing trend of fat type two diabetes children as normal.
72
I completely agree with Julie and Bonefish. Obviously, obesity is genetic in certain cases, but the amount of obese people in industrialized nations is far too high to claim that every case is genetic. Since we know that our food and lifestyle choices are affecting us in a negative way, more should be done to prevent childhood obesity. Once you're old enough to evaluate risks and take them accordingly, fine, eat whatever you want, but I think that more should be done for children to grow up in a healthy way.
73
#70: That homophobia study compared monozygotic (identical) twins to dizygotic (fraternal) twins raised together to determine the genetic component. All of the pairs had shared environment, family, and age -- the only difference is the MZ twins share 100% of their genes, while the DZ twins share 50% of their genes. They also compared singletons (0% shared genes). It's not some sort of definitive landmark study, but it's not "bogus" either.
Regarding the other study with huge variability, that was a meta-study comparing many, many other published studies that used different methods and population samples. You'd find the same variability in studies if you looked at a meta-study comparing all of the findings regarding smoking and lung cancer risk, for example.
Regarding the other study with huge variability, that was a meta-study comparing many, many other published studies that used different methods and population samples. You'd find the same variability in studies if you looked at a meta-study comparing all of the findings regarding smoking and lung cancer risk, for example.
74
33 --
You're 6'4" and 230lbs??? You have a BMI of 28. Overweight is classified as 25-29.9. YOU ARE OVERWEIGHT.
And you are only 16lbs away from being OBESE.
It's fatass motherfuckers like you who ARE overweight, in denial, and are totally defensive who represent almost everybody that make up excuses for themselves.
wow.
You're 6'4" and 230lbs??? You have a BMI of 28. Overweight is classified as 25-29.9. YOU ARE OVERWEIGHT.
And you are only 16lbs away from being OBESE.
It's fatass motherfuckers like you who ARE overweight, in denial, and are totally defensive who represent almost everybody that make up excuses for themselves.
wow.
75
Julie @ 66...
Part of my point was the "set point" argument, but part of it was trying to put things in perspective. I would also imagine that a very small number of people have a set point in the obese range, but I'm sure a heckuva lotta people have set points right in the normal range (after all, normal weight is just an average, like normal temperature). So, if someone's set point is in the normal range, they just have to LIMIT the quantities of junk they eat and get a REASONABLE amount of exercise to stay away from the overweight/obese zone. If someone's set point is overweight, they may have to make A LOT of sacrifices and dedicate A LOT of time to exercise to stay in the unnatural "normal" range. I would imagine that there are quite a number of slightly overweight people out there who just aren't willing to make the sacrifices I have to stay in a "normal" weight range. They do all the same things that "normal" weight people do, which puts them at their set point, which is a little above "normal."
Obesity, morbid obesity...most of the people I see who suffer from those really eat terribly and hardly move. 5-10 lbs over a normal weight range...I can see a lot of people in that group who just aren't willing to swap cruidite for cake on their birthday. I don't excuse the growing number of overweight/obese people...averages don't change that rapidly and dramatically on their own...but not everyone is in the same boat. And lots of us are getting a bad rap because of lots of other people who can't control themselves (for whatever reason).
It's also interesting to note that there is some debate about the benefits of exercise. When I was fatter, I was way more active than I am now, and only a change in diet brought about any significant weight change. I have managed to maintain the lower weight by sticking with the diet while my life has changed to become more sedentary. Previously, if I skipped one day at the gym, I would blow up like a balloon. Anecdotal, but there has been some discussion of this in the medical community lately...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28524942/ns/…
More...
Part of my point was the "set point" argument, but part of it was trying to put things in perspective. I would also imagine that a very small number of people have a set point in the obese range, but I'm sure a heckuva lotta people have set points right in the normal range (after all, normal weight is just an average, like normal temperature). So, if someone's set point is in the normal range, they just have to LIMIT the quantities of junk they eat and get a REASONABLE amount of exercise to stay away from the overweight/obese zone. If someone's set point is overweight, they may have to make A LOT of sacrifices and dedicate A LOT of time to exercise to stay in the unnatural "normal" range. I would imagine that there are quite a number of slightly overweight people out there who just aren't willing to make the sacrifices I have to stay in a "normal" weight range. They do all the same things that "normal" weight people do, which puts them at their set point, which is a little above "normal."
Obesity, morbid obesity...most of the people I see who suffer from those really eat terribly and hardly move. 5-10 lbs over a normal weight range...I can see a lot of people in that group who just aren't willing to swap cruidite for cake on their birthday. I don't excuse the growing number of overweight/obese people...averages don't change that rapidly and dramatically on their own...but not everyone is in the same boat. And lots of us are getting a bad rap because of lots of other people who can't control themselves (for whatever reason).
It's also interesting to note that there is some debate about the benefits of exercise. When I was fatter, I was way more active than I am now, and only a change in diet brought about any significant weight change. I have managed to maintain the lower weight by sticking with the diet while my life has changed to become more sedentary. Previously, if I skipped one day at the gym, I would blow up like a balloon. Anecdotal, but there has been some discussion of this in the medical community lately...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28524942/ns/…
76
73: The point is that there's no guarantee that "identical" vs "non-identical" was the only difference. Some identical twins could hang out in different circles, non-identical twins in the same, etc. It's unreliable.
And it doesn't matter why the variability is so high. Whether it's because they did their study from scratch and found high variability, or whether it's because the studies they were reviewing all had varying results, the end result is the same: estimates of heritability range by huge amounts in the end.
And it doesn't matter why the variability is so high. Whether it's because they did their study from scratch and found high variability, or whether it's because the studies they were reviewing all had varying results, the end result is the same: estimates of heritability range by huge amounts in the end.
77
even with behavioral/environmental inheritance genes, of course, still play a role in determining physiological response and outcome. genes/behavior/environment are not independent: see epigenetic, behavioral etc inheritance
78
So, how does it feel to do to one group the exact same hateful things that get done to you just because you don't like us? Regardless of what causes us to be fat or you to be gay, the only reason you feel you can look down on us is because we're icky to you. Newsflash princess... the only reason the religious fucks hate you is because what you do is icky to them.
It's the same fucking thing, only our 'closet' involves not even being able to be secretly happy ever because if we eat a fucking grape you'll be able to see it. Whereas you can be closeted and suck every dick on the goddamn planet and it won't be visible.
But hey, go right on fighting the good fight to make us wish we were dead. After all, it's perfectly ok to belittle, harass, disparage, strip rights from, and attempt to convert by any means necessary including beatings and surgical alteration anyone who does something you think is "icky" regardless of if it's a choice, inborn, or some of each right? I mean, it's not like doing that kind of thing results in kids killing themselves... I guess since they're fat it's ok though, you fucking hypocritical hack.
It's the same fucking thing, only our 'closet' involves not even being able to be secretly happy ever because if we eat a fucking grape you'll be able to see it. Whereas you can be closeted and suck every dick on the goddamn planet and it won't be visible.
But hey, go right on fighting the good fight to make us wish we were dead. After all, it's perfectly ok to belittle, harass, disparage, strip rights from, and attempt to convert by any means necessary including beatings and surgical alteration anyone who does something you think is "icky" regardless of if it's a choice, inborn, or some of each right? I mean, it's not like doing that kind of thing results in kids killing themselves... I guess since they're fat it's ok though, you fucking hypocritical hack.
80
I'm 41, and I know that all the way back in the 70's when I was in school, they were teaching healthy eating. So it's not that kids don't know what's healthy and what's not. It's that kids have poor impulse control, and if they have opportunities to eat poorly rather than healthily (because it tastes "better" or because it's what their peers eat), they will, no matter what example their parents set. Still, I'm well aware that parents have a huge influence on what kids eat, and should eliminate crap from their cupboards and fridge to minimize their child's access.
Another part of the issue is that I know a lot of parents who don't want their kids playing outside anymore because of the increase in violence against kids. It didn't seem like such a risk 40 or 50 years ago, and kids would run around outside, burning calories and keeping fit. But now, parents want to protect their kids from strangers and so they keep them inside much more.
Also, most of the people I know don't make their kids work. I always had chores when I was a kid. Most kids that I know of don't do anything to help around the house. That may just be my old-lady grumbling coming out, but it didn't hurt me to learn to do my own laundry. Housework's not the best source of exercise, but it ain't the worst, either!
On a related note (parental influence), both of my parents smoked, and my dad drank. Of the four of his kids, none of us smoke, and only one sibling drinks (NOT the same-gender kid, either). So kids are quite capable of learning to avoid their parents' bad choices. But food is more difficult, since you cannot completely eliminate it, as you can with so many other items in life.
Another part of the issue is that I know a lot of parents who don't want their kids playing outside anymore because of the increase in violence against kids. It didn't seem like such a risk 40 or 50 years ago, and kids would run around outside, burning calories and keeping fit. But now, parents want to protect their kids from strangers and so they keep them inside much more.
Also, most of the people I know don't make their kids work. I always had chores when I was a kid. Most kids that I know of don't do anything to help around the house. That may just be my old-lady grumbling coming out, but it didn't hurt me to learn to do my own laundry. Housework's not the best source of exercise, but it ain't the worst, either!
On a related note (parental influence), both of my parents smoked, and my dad drank. Of the four of his kids, none of us smoke, and only one sibling drinks (NOT the same-gender kid, either). So kids are quite capable of learning to avoid their parents' bad choices. But food is more difficult, since you cannot completely eliminate it, as you can with so many other items in life.
81
To all the fat, male Sloggers here: if it's any comfort, just remember at least if you're a guy you can make up for being a fat f*ck with either
1. Money
2. Personality
Women on the other hand.......
1. Money
2. Personality
Women on the other hand.......
82
"More evidence that your fat ass isn't genetic:"
No, it's evidence that behavior is a BIGGER influence than genetics. Fucking duh.
No, it's evidence that behavior is a BIGGER influence than genetics. Fucking duh.
83
Face it, most of the fat f*cks you see out there are also lower class. This is the only legitimate way Sloggers can vent their snobbery without being called classist.
84
"I bet each person who is just absolutely indignant and throwing insults at Dan is fat and on the defensive."
Or, you know, knows someone who is and cares about them. Crazy, I know.
Or, you know, knows someone who is and cares about them. Crazy, I know.
85
"Another part of the issue is that I know a lot of parents who don't want their kids playing outside anymore because of the increase in violence against kids. It didn't seem like such a risk 40 or 50 years ago, and kids would run around outside, burning calories and keeping fit. But now, parents want to protect their kids from strangers and so they keep them inside much more. "
this is so sad. Is the increase _real_ or perceived?
this is so sad. Is the increase _real_ or perceived?
86
What amazes me is how many people would rather insist that "genetics" play more of a role than they do, than people who really want to actually get healthy. Really? You're just going to hide behind genetics? You're just going to ride the coattails of other people's diseases? You're just going to hear about something in a medical journal and decide that is why it is okay for you to have 3 helpings of mac and cheese?
I blame our medical system and it's dependence on making money rather than making healthy.
Your doctor doesn't tell you that you're fat and need to lose weight? No shit? Probably because they are afraid of and used to people taking their business elsewhere because they don't like you giving it to them straight. So instead they just treat the symptoms of your overeating. Like giving the incredibly obese and nearly immobile scooters to get around. How is that helping?
Does this make overweight people subhuman? God no! People are obliviously in denial of TONS of shit in their lives. I am just saying, it is probably more than 9 times out of 10 total bullshit denial and not an actual medical condition (at least not one that being overweight is causing and not the other way around).
And as a former fat kid I can say straight up that I was full of all the genetic and big boned bull shit excuses that were a total cover for the fact that I liked to eat and did not like to move.
I blame our medical system and it's dependence on making money rather than making healthy.
Your doctor doesn't tell you that you're fat and need to lose weight? No shit? Probably because they are afraid of and used to people taking their business elsewhere because they don't like you giving it to them straight. So instead they just treat the symptoms of your overeating. Like giving the incredibly obese and nearly immobile scooters to get around. How is that helping?
Does this make overweight people subhuman? God no! People are obliviously in denial of TONS of shit in their lives. I am just saying, it is probably more than 9 times out of 10 total bullshit denial and not an actual medical condition (at least not one that being overweight is causing and not the other way around).
And as a former fat kid I can say straight up that I was full of all the genetic and big boned bull shit excuses that were a total cover for the fact that I liked to eat and did not like to move.
88
78 Geneva: what rights have you had "strip[ed] from" you? Seriously, what rights have you had stripped from you? Or what rights do you feel you are in danger of losing? I implore you to answer, after making such assertions.
Because the gay analogy does NOT work. If anything, you have demonstrated the hysteric, defensive, and misplaced raging excuses underscored by this post.
Because the gay analogy does NOT work. If anything, you have demonstrated the hysteric, defensive, and misplaced raging excuses underscored by this post.
90
@ 78,
Sorry if you feel hurt by these comments and jokes!!!
Obesity or just people getting fatter as a trend is a symptom of serious health problems in this nation and there is no denying that. No one should be ridiculed or beat up on because of it!!!
I happen have a stomach that one could grate cheese on (& a sense of humor that is overly brash) but I bet most of the people making fat jokes here are somewhat fat themselves. This is one issue that I think Americans do take seriously while at the same time enjoy making fun of themselves with.
I know that a lot of over weight issues are associated with phycological matters, or poverty issues or in the case of wealthy young Seattlites - they spend too much time being pussies and not enough time doing shit humans were meant to do i.e. move their bodies around and eat vegetables.
Most rational people would rather see a slightly over weight healthy person than a sickly anorexic. Shit though, some people like fat - chubby chasers!
So there is someone for everyone out there. Fat, thin, gay, straight. You're cool too.
Obesity, clogged arteries, and diabetes are things people should try to avoid in life and culturally, we are becoming a society that does not. That is what I think most here find disturbing.
Sorry if you feel hurt by these comments and jokes!!!
Obesity or just people getting fatter as a trend is a symptom of serious health problems in this nation and there is no denying that. No one should be ridiculed or beat up on because of it!!!
I happen have a stomach that one could grate cheese on (& a sense of humor that is overly brash) but I bet most of the people making fat jokes here are somewhat fat themselves. This is one issue that I think Americans do take seriously while at the same time enjoy making fun of themselves with.
I know that a lot of over weight issues are associated with phycological matters, or poverty issues or in the case of wealthy young Seattlites - they spend too much time being pussies and not enough time doing shit humans were meant to do i.e. move their bodies around and eat vegetables.
Most rational people would rather see a slightly over weight healthy person than a sickly anorexic. Shit though, some people like fat - chubby chasers!
So there is someone for everyone out there. Fat, thin, gay, straight. You're cool too.
Obesity, clogged arteries, and diabetes are things people should try to avoid in life and culturally, we are becoming a society that does not. That is what I think most here find disturbing.
92
For anybody who would like to blame, use as an excuse, or hide behind genetics, GUESS WHAT!
The same complicated, beatiful genes that might trend your body to holding too much weight ALSO CONTAIN INSTRUCTIONS for how your body will cope with and dispense of the weight, if given the right opportunity to do so.
It is not "death sentence" (although if ignored, it IS)
It is a state of being, that which your beautiful body has the capacity of changing if you want to live longer.
The same complicated, beatiful genes that might trend your body to holding too much weight ALSO CONTAIN INSTRUCTIONS for how your body will cope with and dispense of the weight, if given the right opportunity to do so.
It is not "death sentence" (although if ignored, it IS)
It is a state of being, that which your beautiful body has the capacity of changing if you want to live longer.
94
It's pretty obvious to everyone who doesn't have an agenda that there's both a behavioral/environmental and genetic component to weight.
Me, personally? At points in my life I've been in 'great' shape, which is still a body fat of 16-18%. The minimum I needed to do to maintain that shape was run 5+ miles, walk another 5-10 miles, and eat a ~1200 calorie diet every day without fail. Miss a single day and I'd start to gain weight. Some people will tell you that's not possible; I wish they were right.
This isn't something I care enough about anymore to maintain. I miss being in that kind of shape sometimes, but not enough to build all of my meals and half of my free time around it.
I have friends who eat all kinds of crap, never exercise, and are skinnier than I ever was even using the laws of thermodynamics to beat my body down. It is what it is. In the unlikely event of a major famine, I'm going to outlive all those fuckers, unless they kill me and eat me, but that scenario doesn't seem too likely in our modern world.
Currently I'm working out as hard as I'm able for an hour about five times a week and eating reasonably, and I'd still qualify as moderately overweight. It is what it is.
Me, personally? At points in my life I've been in 'great' shape, which is still a body fat of 16-18%. The minimum I needed to do to maintain that shape was run 5+ miles, walk another 5-10 miles, and eat a ~1200 calorie diet every day without fail. Miss a single day and I'd start to gain weight. Some people will tell you that's not possible; I wish they were right.
This isn't something I care enough about anymore to maintain. I miss being in that kind of shape sometimes, but not enough to build all of my meals and half of my free time around it.
I have friends who eat all kinds of crap, never exercise, and are skinnier than I ever was even using the laws of thermodynamics to beat my body down. It is what it is. In the unlikely event of a major famine, I'm going to outlive all those fuckers, unless they kill me and eat me, but that scenario doesn't seem too likely in our modern world.
Currently I'm working out as hard as I'm able for an hour about five times a week and eating reasonably, and I'd still qualify as moderately overweight. It is what it is.
95
Parents' crap diet = children's crap diet seems pretty reasonable to me. You could also say Parents' Genes/Parent's Diet = Child's Genes/Child's Diet.
However, other underlying emotional causes my exist.
Example #1: I used to work as a cashier at a grocery store. One day an overweight woman came in with a huge toddler. The child was probably around the age of two or three and was so obese it couldn't walk. The mother managed to pick the child up (without breaking her back) and stuff the child into the child seat of the shopping cart. The child was so fat her legs completely filled the leg holes and the wire basket was pinching into them 3-4 inches all around cutting off her circulation, I'm sure. The mother wheeled her child directly to the junk food aisle for chips and soda. No healthy food at all in the cart, all empty calories. Eventually she wheeled her kid to the check out line, while checking out the child started grunting/crying "ah wan', ah wan'" (I want, I want) and pointing toward the candy bars. The mother rolled her eyes, grabbed a candy bar, ripped off the wrapper and jammed it into the kids mouth like a plug. It was quite frankly as cruel and abusive as someone hauling off and popping her one in the mouth.
Example #2: Tacky daytime talk show. Various family members had staged interventions for the mother's of obese children. The women had fattened their kids up like hogs on the most incredible amounts of unhealthy foods. If they had a son, it was "so he'll stay with me forever, and won't leave me like his father did". If it were a girl, there was an undercurrent of jealousy that the girl was younger, prettier, and popular with boys.
Make of it what you will.
However, other underlying emotional causes my exist.
Example #1: I used to work as a cashier at a grocery store. One day an overweight woman came in with a huge toddler. The child was probably around the age of two or three and was so obese it couldn't walk. The mother managed to pick the child up (without breaking her back) and stuff the child into the child seat of the shopping cart. The child was so fat her legs completely filled the leg holes and the wire basket was pinching into them 3-4 inches all around cutting off her circulation, I'm sure. The mother wheeled her child directly to the junk food aisle for chips and soda. No healthy food at all in the cart, all empty calories. Eventually she wheeled her kid to the check out line, while checking out the child started grunting/crying "ah wan', ah wan'" (I want, I want) and pointing toward the candy bars. The mother rolled her eyes, grabbed a candy bar, ripped off the wrapper and jammed it into the kids mouth like a plug. It was quite frankly as cruel and abusive as someone hauling off and popping her one in the mouth.
Example #2: Tacky daytime talk show. Various family members had staged interventions for the mother's of obese children. The women had fattened their kids up like hogs on the most incredible amounts of unhealthy foods. If they had a son, it was "so he'll stay with me forever, and won't leave me like his father did". If it were a girl, there was an undercurrent of jealousy that the girl was younger, prettier, and popular with boys.
Make of it what you will.
96
I don't know why I always feel compelled to throw in my two cents on these threads. Assholes will be assholes, and there's nothing I can say to change that.
I guess I just wish that those of you who are soooo nasty about this would realize that, while you may be right about 95 out of 100 fat people, those other 5 of us are tired of being looked down upon.
I'm a vegan. I cook virtually all of my own food from scratch, eat it in reasonable quantities, avoid sugar. I don't eat snacks. I rarely drink stuff that contains calories, beyond a few glasses of wine per week. I walk, hike, kayak. . . I've mostly had very active jobs, including my current one. . . I garden. . . I'm not an athlete, but I'm not a couch potato either. All of the skinny motherfuckers I've lived with/dated would attest to this. But I'm about 80lbs overweight.
WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM ME?!
Everybody in my family is fat. We all eat differently. My parents eat terribly, and they are heavier than I am, but not even by that much. Clearly -- CLEARLY -- genetics have something to do with this.
I may be an exception to the rule, I don't know. I don't know what other people do, I only know what I do. But all of you who have attitudes about this, just keep in mind that you can't tell me apart from the people who eat Krispy Kreme for breakfast just by looking. So maybe you could dial down the assholery just a titch. Kthx.
I guess I just wish that those of you who are soooo nasty about this would realize that, while you may be right about 95 out of 100 fat people, those other 5 of us are tired of being looked down upon.
I'm a vegan. I cook virtually all of my own food from scratch, eat it in reasonable quantities, avoid sugar. I don't eat snacks. I rarely drink stuff that contains calories, beyond a few glasses of wine per week. I walk, hike, kayak. . . I've mostly had very active jobs, including my current one. . . I garden. . . I'm not an athlete, but I'm not a couch potato either. All of the skinny motherfuckers I've lived with/dated would attest to this. But I'm about 80lbs overweight.
WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM ME?!
Everybody in my family is fat. We all eat differently. My parents eat terribly, and they are heavier than I am, but not even by that much. Clearly -- CLEARLY -- genetics have something to do with this.
I may be an exception to the rule, I don't know. I don't know what other people do, I only know what I do. But all of you who have attitudes about this, just keep in mind that you can't tell me apart from the people who eat Krispy Kreme for breakfast just by looking. So maybe you could dial down the assholery just a titch. Kthx.
97
I'll toss in with everyone who mentions being heavy/fat even with lots of exercise. I'll also admit that I like food.
Although I eat mostly healthy food, mostly home-cooked organic, largely vegetarian food, I eat food. About 1800 calories a day. Add a couple of beers or glasses of wine and I'm well over 2000 cal/day. I'm 4'10" and 160lbs. That's obese. My sweetie is 6' and 180lbs. We have an almost identical diet, though he drinks cocktails instead of beer.
I don't look obese, I just look fat. I'm in pretty good shape. I've been in lots better shape. I used to train 6hrs per week at a boxing gym and run 5 miles each week (always hated roadwork). I weighed 166. I was strong as hell, and fat.
When I cut down to1600 cal/day and added an extra 3 hours at the gym every week AND 20 extra minutes of running each and every fucking day, I dropped weight. I got down to 154. That's still obese. I was size 12 and in good shape--but I still looked fat.
I'm 36 years old and tired of spending so much time thinking about what I'm eating and how much I'm working out. I'm going to be fat whether I'm in great shape or just walking a couple of miles a day. Who knows if it's genetic or just that my life is way easier than my body is set up to handle. I'm built differently than anyone in my family--but I eat better than any of them. Most are fairly skinny, but unfit folks living off pop and junk food.
I like to eat. I like to read websites and sit on the couch. I still exercise, but I'm not going to obsess anymore.
Doesn't affect policy (or science) one way or the other. I'm not your "typical" fat person. I have no soda to cut from my diet, or Doritos. I'm not sedentary. There's nothing Savage can take away from me, and there's not much anyone can complain I'm costing the healthcare system.
Why are we talking about this?
More...
Although I eat mostly healthy food, mostly home-cooked organic, largely vegetarian food, I eat food. About 1800 calories a day. Add a couple of beers or glasses of wine and I'm well over 2000 cal/day. I'm 4'10" and 160lbs. That's obese. My sweetie is 6' and 180lbs. We have an almost identical diet, though he drinks cocktails instead of beer.
I don't look obese, I just look fat. I'm in pretty good shape. I've been in lots better shape. I used to train 6hrs per week at a boxing gym and run 5 miles each week (always hated roadwork). I weighed 166. I was strong as hell, and fat.
When I cut down to1600 cal/day and added an extra 3 hours at the gym every week AND 20 extra minutes of running each and every fucking day, I dropped weight. I got down to 154. That's still obese. I was size 12 and in good shape--but I still looked fat.
I'm 36 years old and tired of spending so much time thinking about what I'm eating and how much I'm working out. I'm going to be fat whether I'm in great shape or just walking a couple of miles a day. Who knows if it's genetic or just that my life is way easier than my body is set up to handle. I'm built differently than anyone in my family--but I eat better than any of them. Most are fairly skinny, but unfit folks living off pop and junk food.
I like to eat. I like to read websites and sit on the couch. I still exercise, but I'm not going to obsess anymore.
Doesn't affect policy (or science) one way or the other. I'm not your "typical" fat person. I have no soda to cut from my diet, or Doritos. I'm not sedentary. There's nothing Savage can take away from me, and there's not much anyone can complain I'm costing the healthcare system.
Why are we talking about this?
99
Eva, thanks. ;)
And MJ, yeah. Nice. See, that's the thing. I decided at some point that the crazy extremes I'd have to go to if I wanted to be thin, given the way my body is, are not worth it. I'm healthy. I'm loved. Who gives a fuck.
But I still wish that people wouldn't be so fucking awful. Fat people should be slaughtered and used for petrol? Really? What's worse, being fat, or being cruel?
And MJ, yeah. Nice. See, that's the thing. I decided at some point that the crazy extremes I'd have to go to if I wanted to be thin, given the way my body is, are not worth it. I'm healthy. I'm loved. Who gives a fuck.
But I still wish that people wouldn't be so fucking awful. Fat people should be slaughtered and used for petrol? Really? What's worse, being fat, or being cruel?
100
Look, everyone...here's the thing
We can argue about choice, responsibility, health, blah blah blah de fuckin' BLAH til the mother-effin' COWS come home, but all of that is ignoring two simple, very important points:
1. No one should ever, EVER have to hate themselves and feel utterly worthless because of how they look. (No, I'm not telling you that you have to think fat people are sexy if you don't want to. Shut up.)
2. Other people's life choices, including unhealthy decisions and risks, are THEIR OWN. Not your business. Not your concern. Definitely NOT your right to make fun, devalue, be a douchebag, etc. They're not hurting you. Don't like fat? Stay thin and make DAMN sure you're not projecting your fear of your own potential unattractiveness on other people.
End of fucking story.
We can argue about choice, responsibility, health, blah blah blah de fuckin' BLAH til the mother-effin' COWS come home, but all of that is ignoring two simple, very important points:
1. No one should ever, EVER have to hate themselves and feel utterly worthless because of how they look. (No, I'm not telling you that you have to think fat people are sexy if you don't want to. Shut up.)
2. Other people's life choices, including unhealthy decisions and risks, are THEIR OWN. Not your business. Not your concern. Definitely NOT your right to make fun, devalue, be a douchebag, etc. They're not hurting you. Don't like fat? Stay thin and make DAMN sure you're not projecting your fear of your own potential unattractiveness on other people.
End of fucking story.
101
"They're not hurting you. "
You don't fly much do you? Jesus, even the stewardesses in the US are fat fucks.
You don't fly much do you? Jesus, even the stewardesses in the US are fat fucks.
102
Violet, Eva, MJ, and Laurel,
You guys rock. Peace is loving ourselves as we are, and doing our best to live a good life. I appreciate your hearing your hearts on the subject matter. Thanks for being so open.
I do believe that my body at least has a set point, a size it wants to be, and I can manipulate/ adjust it to a certain extent. But, I will always be tall with a mesomorph body type, and I will never be delicate. Oh well, as Marline Dietrich once said, "Darling, the legs aren't so beautiful. I just know what to do with them."
Take care all, and rock those bodies.
You guys rock. Peace is loving ourselves as we are, and doing our best to live a good life. I appreciate your hearing your hearts on the subject matter. Thanks for being so open.
I do believe that my body at least has a set point, a size it wants to be, and I can manipulate/ adjust it to a certain extent. But, I will always be tall with a mesomorph body type, and I will never be delicate. Oh well, as Marline Dietrich once said, "Darling, the legs aren't so beautiful. I just know what to do with them."
Take care all, and rock those bodies.
103
100: That's great, but all those people posting about how they remained "fat" despite running a triathlon every day went to further my point, at least: there are people out there who really are made "fat" by forces outside their control, and these people are done a disservice whenever someone who's a regular at KFC tries to claim, "me too! me too!"
If someone (after they are a GROWN ADULT) decides that they'd rather eat all the donuts the want, that's their choice. People will find them attractive, and they aren't hurting anyone else, etc, so you're right, it's nothing to be ashamed of. But since that's the case, people need to own it. People aren't doing a service to anyone by placing responsibility on genetics at levels that are just plain inaccurate.
One of my big crazy "risk-taking" habits, for instance, is cliff diving. I know there's a risk involved, but I do it anyway because it's worth it for the fun. But if I ever end up landing on rocks and getting paralyzed, I'm not going to blame the Forest Service for having faulty lakes and cliffs. And I'm certainly not going to say that my paralysis is just a genetic condition and it's a coincidence that the onset happened just as I hit the rocks. I know it's a little stupid and so I admit that and do it anyway. I understand that there's a bit more social stigma against fat people than cliff divers, but all the more reason not to just bow down to that pressure and blame genetics if that's not really the case.
If someone (after they are a GROWN ADULT) decides that they'd rather eat all the donuts the want, that's their choice. People will find them attractive, and they aren't hurting anyone else, etc, so you're right, it's nothing to be ashamed of. But since that's the case, people need to own it. People aren't doing a service to anyone by placing responsibility on genetics at levels that are just plain inaccurate.
One of my big crazy "risk-taking" habits, for instance, is cliff diving. I know there's a risk involved, but I do it anyway because it's worth it for the fun. But if I ever end up landing on rocks and getting paralyzed, I'm not going to blame the Forest Service for having faulty lakes and cliffs. And I'm certainly not going to say that my paralysis is just a genetic condition and it's a coincidence that the onset happened just as I hit the rocks. I know it's a little stupid and so I admit that and do it anyway. I understand that there's a bit more social stigma against fat people than cliff divers, but all the more reason not to just bow down to that pressure and blame genetics if that's not really the case.
105
Genetics or lifestlyle choice?
Hey, man. Just go to ANY international airport OUTSIDE the United States.
Let me tell you. It's not fucking hard to spot the Americans.
White people in Europe have the same genetics as the ones here.
Just saying...
Ask anybody you know from Europe. They'll tell you.
Hey, man. Just go to ANY international airport OUTSIDE the United States.
Let me tell you. It's not fucking hard to spot the Americans.
White people in Europe have the same genetics as the ones here.
Just saying...
Ask anybody you know from Europe. They'll tell you.
106
At what level of epidemic does obesity have to become before it no longer gets classified as a character flaw of the individual and do external factors become considered?
If I remember my Supersize Me!, the budget for public service announcements regarding nutrition is infinitesimal compared to advertising for sodas, candy and fast food franchises. Campbell's Soup is good food is loaded with MSG and is primarily fat and carbs. Even the government nutrition pyramid was heavily influenced by the agricultural PACs, swayed not by what humans actually need, but by what American farms grow. Your typical 100 IQ citizen has a better chance of navigating through a Las Vegas casino.
This is not a situation where we can just finger the lazy asses of America, or hereditary tendencies or whatever when it's cheaper and faster to buy Jack-in-the-box tacos or Burger King Burger Shots than it is to plan, assemble ingredients for and properly prepare a square meal.
In the meantime, we have eight-year-olds going on diets and taking anabolic steroids, since they have body-image problems that early in their lives.
This whole thing reminds me of Raven Sable, the incarnation of Famine in Good Omens (Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett). Famine just went corporate, convincing us that thin is in and then feeding us fat and sugar until we die of malnutrition.
Incidentally, as a self-aware but weight-conscious friend of mine points out, the suicide rate (outside the slow suicide that is the creeping health risks of overeating, of course) amongst fat people is conspicuously low; food is a rockin' coping mechanism. She notes, the trick is not to end up 300 pounds when using it.
More...
If I remember my Supersize Me!, the budget for public service announcements regarding nutrition is infinitesimal compared to advertising for sodas, candy and fast food franchises. Campbell's Soup is good food is loaded with MSG and is primarily fat and carbs. Even the government nutrition pyramid was heavily influenced by the agricultural PACs, swayed not by what humans actually need, but by what American farms grow. Your typical 100 IQ citizen has a better chance of navigating through a Las Vegas casino.
This is not a situation where we can just finger the lazy asses of America, or hereditary tendencies or whatever when it's cheaper and faster to buy Jack-in-the-box tacos or Burger King Burger Shots than it is to plan, assemble ingredients for and properly prepare a square meal.
In the meantime, we have eight-year-olds going on diets and taking anabolic steroids, since they have body-image problems that early in their lives.
This whole thing reminds me of Raven Sable, the incarnation of Famine in Good Omens (Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett). Famine just went corporate, convincing us that thin is in and then feeding us fat and sugar until we die of malnutrition.
Incidentally, as a self-aware but weight-conscious friend of mine points out, the suicide rate (outside the slow suicide that is the creeping health risks of overeating, of course) amongst fat people is conspicuously low; food is a rockin' coping mechanism. She notes, the trick is not to end up 300 pounds when using it.
107
Whatever, Dan. All of us fat asses have been dealing with the taunts from the mentally challenged for years. We know you are just mad, because you don't have enough fuel for your brain to function properly. We will still care for you, treat you as a human being, and fight for your gay rights no matter how much you want to make lamps out of our hides.
108
97. MJ, sounds like you're cutting too many calories. It's screwing up your metabolism, no matter how much you train: 1600-1800 is fairly low even for females, and for someone around your size it's borderline malnourishment, especially with a protein-strapped vegetarian diet.
Your body's probably storing as much fat as it can in response because you're not providing your body with enough nutrients on a regular basis.
This, of course, takes you at your word as to the constitution of your diet. It could vary wildly from what you told us it is.
Your body's probably storing as much fat as it can in response because you're not providing your body with enough nutrients on a regular basis.
This, of course, takes you at your word as to the constitution of your diet. It could vary wildly from what you told us it is.
109
Also, Geneva @ 78... 'fat' is not a culture. It's a condition produced by a chosen lifestyle and habits. Being bitter and making it an 'us vs them' issue isn't as productive as, say, getting some more exercise.
110
@ 109: true. People need to take responsibility for their own choices. It would definitely help, though, if there were better choices, OR, perhaps more clearly, if the better choices were easier to access, & advertised just as heavily as fast-food, soda, etc.
It's easy for someone who doesn't have a lot of money to walk into a Micky D's & get what looks like a lot of prepared "food" for relatively little cash. The fast-food joints are usually downtown, w/in easy walking distance of bus/train/etc. In many cities, mine being one of them, most supermarkets are in the suburbs, not the city proper. (I'm lucky, there is still a Wegmans in my city limits.) So to choose to buy fruits/veggies as opposed to just "stopping in" for a slice/burger etc is the significantly less easy choice.
When I was in high school I had dreams of opening a drive-through eatery in my town called "The Shrine". It would have quick, easy-to-eat healthy food options (crudites to go, sandwiches w/ leaner, lower-fat meats & dressings, w/ the focus on vegetables). I even had a tagline picked out: "Your body is your temple. Worship at the Shrine!" A grueling stint in college working at a couple of different restaurants made my other dream, of working on comic books, much more attractive.
It's easy for someone who doesn't have a lot of money to walk into a Micky D's & get what looks like a lot of prepared "food" for relatively little cash. The fast-food joints are usually downtown, w/in easy walking distance of bus/train/etc. In many cities, mine being one of them, most supermarkets are in the suburbs, not the city proper. (I'm lucky, there is still a Wegmans in my city limits.) So to choose to buy fruits/veggies as opposed to just "stopping in" for a slice/burger etc is the significantly less easy choice.
When I was in high school I had dreams of opening a drive-through eatery in my town called "The Shrine". It would have quick, easy-to-eat healthy food options (crudites to go, sandwiches w/ leaner, lower-fat meats & dressings, w/ the focus on vegetables). I even had a tagline picked out: "Your body is your temple. Worship at the Shrine!" A grueling stint in college working at a couple of different restaurants made my other dream, of working on comic books, much more attractive.
111
Dan, please explain the difference between:
a) someone who wants to fuck men, but doesn't because of societal pressure;
b) someone who wants to eat a lot, but doesn't because of societal pressure.
you are suggesting that all of the former should come out and enjoy themselves, and that all of the latter should remain closet cases. Why?
a) someone who wants to fuck men, but doesn't because of societal pressure;
b) someone who wants to eat a lot, but doesn't because of societal pressure.
you are suggesting that all of the former should come out and enjoy themselves, and that all of the latter should remain closet cases. Why?
112
a) someone who wants to fuck men
b) someone who wants to eat a lot
Put them together, you get bears.
b) someone who wants to eat a lot
Put them together, you get bears.
113
111, The man who wants to fuck men but doesn't will probably turn to over eating as a result of the stress of denying his true sexuality, thus no one will want to fuck him?
114
@108 Actually she is only 4'10" and eating 1600-1800 isn't going to help her to lose a substantial amount of weight in even a healthy amount of time. Her big problem is having the same diet as her dude that is nearly 2 feet taller than her. He is bigger, he needs more. She is smaller and could sustain on much less. American portion sizes are not made for someone who is 4'10".
And, as a former "fat kid" I know that most of you are lying, because I did the same thing. Because I would talk to others and be like "I don't get it, I run all the time and my diet is mostly healthy" and other people in my life would totally enable that lie. Family members would say things like "maybe you should get your thyroid checked" or "there must be something wrong, have you seen a doctor" so I saw a doctor, and my thyroid was fine and she told me to lose the fucking weight.
Once I actually started keeping track of what I was putting in my body, I was way more conscious of the fact that, no, in fact I was not really eating that healthy. My portion sizes were out of control, as was my snacking. It doesn't matter how "healthy" the food is, if your portion sizes are off. And "organic" does not mean "less calories" it means "less pesticides and hormones" so stop throwing that one in like it makes a bit of fucking difference on your weight.
I know that y'all are going to get pissed off because maybe ONE or TWO of you is actually telling the truth, and if that is the case than go to the fucking doctor and find out what is wrong with you, if you really want to lose the weight.
If it is your choice to stay big, than do it, and "own it" as the cliff diver said, but don't try and blame it on something else because until you say that you have doctor certified proof no one believes you. And if you aren't willing to go to the doctor and find out, than you don't really want to know the truth. No one really cares if you're fat if you are happy and you don't complain about it and you don't blame it others or lie about why you are big. You are not a lesser person. I just decided that I didn't want to be the big kid anymore. I like being healthy and active and being able to breathe when I sleep.
More...
And, as a former "fat kid" I know that most of you are lying, because I did the same thing. Because I would talk to others and be like "I don't get it, I run all the time and my diet is mostly healthy" and other people in my life would totally enable that lie. Family members would say things like "maybe you should get your thyroid checked" or "there must be something wrong, have you seen a doctor" so I saw a doctor, and my thyroid was fine and she told me to lose the fucking weight.
Once I actually started keeping track of what I was putting in my body, I was way more conscious of the fact that, no, in fact I was not really eating that healthy. My portion sizes were out of control, as was my snacking. It doesn't matter how "healthy" the food is, if your portion sizes are off. And "organic" does not mean "less calories" it means "less pesticides and hormones" so stop throwing that one in like it makes a bit of fucking difference on your weight.
I know that y'all are going to get pissed off because maybe ONE or TWO of you is actually telling the truth, and if that is the case than go to the fucking doctor and find out what is wrong with you, if you really want to lose the weight.
If it is your choice to stay big, than do it, and "own it" as the cliff diver said, but don't try and blame it on something else because until you say that you have doctor certified proof no one believes you. And if you aren't willing to go to the doctor and find out, than you don't really want to know the truth. No one really cares if you're fat if you are happy and you don't complain about it and you don't blame it others or lie about why you are big. You are not a lesser person. I just decided that I didn't want to be the big kid anymore. I like being healthy and active and being able to breathe when I sleep.
115
"That's great, but all those people posting about how they remained "fat" despite running a triathlon every day went to further my point, at least: there are people out there who really are made "fat" by forces outside their control, and these people are done a disservice whenever someone who's a regular at KFC tries to claim, "me too! me too!""
1. And why, exactly, do you think they're doing that? Could they, I don't know, be trying to escape the debilitating shame? Do you think they'd care if we didn't hold "fat" as practically the worst moral sin a person can commit?
2. People who stay fat despite with healthy life choices aren't being done a disservice by fat people with unhealthy life choices. They're being done a disservice by ignorant douche bags who judge them.
3. You're still trying to make an argument for why it's okay to shame people. I'm not buying it.
1. And why, exactly, do you think they're doing that? Could they, I don't know, be trying to escape the debilitating shame? Do you think they'd care if we didn't hold "fat" as practically the worst moral sin a person can commit?
2. People who stay fat despite with healthy life choices aren't being done a disservice by fat people with unhealthy life choices. They're being done a disservice by ignorant douche bags who judge them.
3. You're still trying to make an argument for why it's okay to shame people. I'm not buying it.
116
PS - exactly how many times have you been shamed, teased, insulted, etc., for cliff diving? Hell, we GLORIFY that kind of behavior half the time. No fucking comparison.
117
I'm one of those folks who has legitmate medical reasons behind being overweight. My thyroid stopped working and developed multiple nodules and one large tumor (benign). I ended up having to have it removed, so I have to take synthetic hormones now, which don't work as well as what your body produces. I have another endocrine condition, too, that affects how my body uses the insulin it produces, and also makes losing weight incredibly difficult - not impossible but difficult.
When my thyroid stopped working, I gained a lot of weight really, really fast. I couldn't do anything about it at the time because I didn't have insurance and I didn't qualify for charity care. Add to that they fact that the nodules were compressing my trachea and a pretty severe depression, and, well, I was a mess, in short. Now I have a lot of weight that I gained during that period that I'm working on taking off. It is slow going, however, because of the other endocrine condition.
At any rate, I did want to comment on all of the judgement I'm reading on this thread. When I was a kid, one of the first lessons my parents taught me was that good people come in all colors, shapes, sizes and personalities, and bad people come in all colors, shapes, sizes, and personalities. They taught me not to make judgments about people based on first impressions, and especially not to judge based on what I can see on the outside. It's how I managed to grow up without prejudices in a part of the country where racism, homophobia, and any other -ism or -phobia you can think of is rampant.
Wouldn't we all be happier if we just let people be who they are? We would certainly waste less time passing judgment on everyone we passed and sharing that judgment with the world at large.
And before anyone says anything, I'm not perfect in that regard. I catch myself every once in a while - though it's is more judgment based on people's actions - like the streetcorner preachers or the people protesting outside of women's health clinics - than it is appearance.
I'm not perfect, but I work on those rough edges. Isn't that all we can ask from anyone?
More...
When my thyroid stopped working, I gained a lot of weight really, really fast. I couldn't do anything about it at the time because I didn't have insurance and I didn't qualify for charity care. Add to that they fact that the nodules were compressing my trachea and a pretty severe depression, and, well, I was a mess, in short. Now I have a lot of weight that I gained during that period that I'm working on taking off. It is slow going, however, because of the other endocrine condition.
At any rate, I did want to comment on all of the judgement I'm reading on this thread. When I was a kid, one of the first lessons my parents taught me was that good people come in all colors, shapes, sizes and personalities, and bad people come in all colors, shapes, sizes, and personalities. They taught me not to make judgments about people based on first impressions, and especially not to judge based on what I can see on the outside. It's how I managed to grow up without prejudices in a part of the country where racism, homophobia, and any other -ism or -phobia you can think of is rampant.
Wouldn't we all be happier if we just let people be who they are? We would certainly waste less time passing judgment on everyone we passed and sharing that judgment with the world at large.
And before anyone says anything, I'm not perfect in that regard. I catch myself every once in a while - though it's is more judgment based on people's actions - like the streetcorner preachers or the people protesting outside of women's health clinics - than it is appearance.
I'm not perfect, but I work on those rough edges. Isn't that all we can ask from anyone?
118
No, you can't directly compare fat phobia to homophobia. Just as you can't directly compare homophobia to racism. Just as you can't directly compare racism to sexism. Just as you can't directly compare sexism to disability stigma. Or mental health stigma, or agism, or religious discrimination, or classism, or AIDS stigma, or anti-intellectualism, or ANY of that shit.
You don't have to fight and win the oppression olympics in order to earn the right to say, "That's fucking unfair. Knock it off."
You don't have to fight and win the oppression olympics in order to earn the right to say, "That's fucking unfair. Knock it off."
119
I'm also one of those folks who never learned to proofread. It's unfortunate that at least part of my job function is editing.
Sorry for the typos in @117.
Sorry for the typos in @117.
120
And have we actually gotten this far in the thread without talking about how hugely, amazingly FUCKED UP American food is and how, it's not actually that easy for some of us to be ABLE to eat healthy? Even when we think we are?
It's all very easy to get moralistic about the American obesity epidemic and pretend it's all just because we suck, etc., but the fact of the matter is, the food that's available to us in this country is VERY different from what folks largely have on hand in other developed nations. Read "Food Inc."
It's all very easy to get moralistic about the American obesity epidemic and pretend it's all just because we suck, etc., but the fact of the matter is, the food that's available to us in this country is VERY different from what folks largely have on hand in other developed nations. Read "Food Inc."
121
The last few comments have just made me make a connection between a random gripe of mine and the “healthy eating” thing… When I lived in Chicago, I always used to grumble that there were no street carts selling fruits, vegetables, flowers, etc. These stands exist in other cities in the US/world, and I was always irritated that I had to find my way to a grocery store when I was just out of bananas or apples. How nice it would have been to be able to pick up a couple of produce items on my way from the office to the El…
This was just a convenience thing for me, since I eat a lot of produce, which necessitates frequent trips to the store. But for others, it could be an access thing (if they live far from a grocery store) or a “reminder to eat healthy” thing. If I were a mayor or city council member, I would be lobbying for allowing these types of street vendors…
This was just a convenience thing for me, since I eat a lot of produce, which necessitates frequent trips to the store. But for others, it could be an access thing (if they live far from a grocery store) or a “reminder to eat healthy” thing. If I were a mayor or city council member, I would be lobbying for allowing these types of street vendors…
122
@120 just because the shitty stuff is available doesn't mean that you HAVE to purchase or consume it. The non-shitty stuff is available as well. It's called research. Why is what we consume is the least researched part of our lives these days. You need a fucking book to tell you that something is BAD for you?
People have their blinders on and refuse to take responsibility for their own actions. Sure, that package might say "low fat" but when you turn it around and see that a serving size still has 10 grams of fat, I think it is fair to say that the packaging was lying to you. And do you really need a book to tell you that if you don't know what one of the 30 lettered ingredients in your bread is that maybe you probably shouldn't eat it? Or at least research it?
Reading, measuring out serving sizes, weighing out serving sizes, etc. IS NOT THAT HARD PEOPLE!!!!
I can't believe that what you PUT INSIDE YOUR BODY is measured by it's CONVENIENCE and not by what it actually IS.
People have their blinders on and refuse to take responsibility for their own actions. Sure, that package might say "low fat" but when you turn it around and see that a serving size still has 10 grams of fat, I think it is fair to say that the packaging was lying to you. And do you really need a book to tell you that if you don't know what one of the 30 lettered ingredients in your bread is that maybe you probably shouldn't eat it? Or at least research it?
Reading, measuring out serving sizes, weighing out serving sizes, etc. IS NOT THAT HARD PEOPLE!!!!
I can't believe that what you PUT INSIDE YOUR BODY is measured by it's CONVENIENCE and not by what it actually IS.
124
115: When did I ever make an argument for shaming fat people? If you had read the rest of my post, or any of my other posts besides that one, you would have read my point that there's nothing wrong with being fat. Even if it's due to a poor diet (so long as you're an adult, and the bad diet is your choice that you made after being given healthy options as a kid).
The argument I'm making is for an accurate distinction between the different causes of obesity. Sometimes it's caused by genetic or physiological conditions. Most of the time it's caused by diet and a lack of exercise. A person with a fatty diet and sedentary lifestyle shouldn't claim a genetic condition, especially if you want to argue that they have nothing to be ashamed of.
Any mistreatment of fat people isn't going to get any better if you just roll with it and say, "Oh, no; I'm not one of THOSE fat people who eat too much. They're pigs; me, I just have a thyroid problem." When you do that, you just add to the problem (much like a gay man staying in the closet, if people insist on making gay analogies). You'd be better off just saying, "yeah, I like fatty foods. It's worth whatever the effects are to enjoy what I want when I want."
But this denial about what causes obesity is harmful. It creates misinformation. If there's nothing wrong with what you're doing, then you don't need to lie about it, and you don't need to defensively equate a call for accuracy with a call to shame fat people.
The argument I'm making is for an accurate distinction between the different causes of obesity. Sometimes it's caused by genetic or physiological conditions. Most of the time it's caused by diet and a lack of exercise. A person with a fatty diet and sedentary lifestyle shouldn't claim a genetic condition, especially if you want to argue that they have nothing to be ashamed of.
Any mistreatment of fat people isn't going to get any better if you just roll with it and say, "Oh, no; I'm not one of THOSE fat people who eat too much. They're pigs; me, I just have a thyroid problem." When you do that, you just add to the problem (much like a gay man staying in the closet, if people insist on making gay analogies). You'd be better off just saying, "yeah, I like fatty foods. It's worth whatever the effects are to enjoy what I want when I want."
But this denial about what causes obesity is harmful. It creates misinformation. If there's nothing wrong with what you're doing, then you don't need to lie about it, and you don't need to defensively equate a call for accuracy with a call to shame fat people.
125
"it's not actually that easy for some of us to be ABLE to eat healthy? Even when we think we are? "
Wow, just how fu*king lazy can u get. What, too far to walk over to the fresh food section and cook yourself a healthy meal?
"the food that's available to us in this country is VERY different from what folks largely have on hand in other developed nations."
Bullsh*t. Even Walmart has fresh fruits and veggies. Fu*k people are lazy in this country, how the f*ck can you sit there and claim it's not your fault you eat sh*t food. Lazy fat f*cks.
FYI Europeans have the exact same genes as fat crackers in the US and no where near as many fat fu*ks there. Maybe you fat ladies should read 'Why French women don't get fat'.
Remember: spandex is a privilege, not a right!
Wow, just how fu*king lazy can u get. What, too far to walk over to the fresh food section and cook yourself a healthy meal?
"the food that's available to us in this country is VERY different from what folks largely have on hand in other developed nations."
Bullsh*t. Even Walmart has fresh fruits and veggies. Fu*k people are lazy in this country, how the f*ck can you sit there and claim it's not your fault you eat sh*t food. Lazy fat f*cks.
FYI Europeans have the exact same genes as fat crackers in the US and no where near as many fat fu*ks there. Maybe you fat ladies should read 'Why French women don't get fat'.
Remember: spandex is a privilege, not a right!
126
122: You can get on an individual person's case about researching their food, but the general, 300 million-person American public just isn't going to do it. What needs to happen is that healthier foods that are not laced with so much sugar, corn syrup, hydrogenated oils, excess fats, etc. need to become the default of what you'd get if you went to a grocery store. The shit that's awful for you is supposed to be an occasional treat that you buy on puprose; people shouldn't have to be checking the ingredients of their bread and fruit juice to make sure the fat and sugar content isn't surprisingly similar to burgers and soda.
127
"Why french Women Don't get fat"
http://www.mireilleguiliano.com/frenchwo…
Get of your a*ses and learn to eat better.
http://www.mireilleguiliano.com/frenchwo…
Get of your a*ses and learn to eat better.
128
"it's all very easy to get moralistic about the American obesity epidemic and pretend it's all just because we suck"
No, in America it's easier to blame evil corporations that people are lazy, stupid fu*ks who refuse to buy healthy food and COOK for themselves. Afterall, that's the new American Way.
No, in America it's easier to blame evil corporations that people are lazy, stupid fu*ks who refuse to buy healthy food and COOK for themselves. Afterall, that's the new American Way.
129
Wanna bet most of the people blaming 'evil corporate America' for their corpulence and think we need more government regulation of food are the same Sloggers who come on here and call for the legalization of drugs. Afterall, drug use should just be a personal choice but food, oh no, they have no control over that and need to be protected from their bad choices.
To the fat ladies at my gym: spandex is a privilege, not a right.
To the fat ladies at my gym: spandex is a privilege, not a right.
130
Stupid White Man @ 128, etc: It's easy as hell to go to the store, buy fresh fruits & Veg, cook a good meal. I do it all the time. But I have a magic ingredient to achieve my farmer's market trips: A CAR. There was much of my life when I didn't have a car, & when I was taking transit, lived in the boonies or couldn't catch a ride..well, pizza delivers. Economics affect directly both your ability to afford fresh foods - which cost more in time & effort to prepare, as well as cash - & the ability to get to a freakin' decent store in the first place. It's not always that people are lazy. How great for you that you have everything you need w/in walking distance.
Um- food corporations ARE evil. There's farm monopolies, where there's only one kinda soybean; our tomatoes are grown to last long, not taste good; advertising focuses on things that make money for eateries - money shots of juicy burgers, big steaks, cheesy pizzas. High fructose corn syrup is consumed in the US at a horrifying rate since the mid-70's.
Lastly, there's lotsa bitching in your posts about fat women in spandex. I know plenty of fat women. I don't know any of them that wear spandex. I've seen some fat *guys* who do (I work in comic books, & the fashion crimes of conventions..*shudder*). People should always dress to their body type. I know they don't - "muffin tops" abound - but we get it already, about the spandex.
@ 120, 121 (I obviously echo your point about access) & 126 = hear, hear.
Um- food corporations ARE evil. There's farm monopolies, where there's only one kinda soybean; our tomatoes are grown to last long, not taste good; advertising focuses on things that make money for eateries - money shots of juicy burgers, big steaks, cheesy pizzas. High fructose corn syrup is consumed in the US at a horrifying rate since the mid-70's.
Lastly, there's lotsa bitching in your posts about fat women in spandex. I know plenty of fat women. I don't know any of them that wear spandex. I've seen some fat *guys* who do (I work in comic books, & the fashion crimes of conventions..*shudder*). People should always dress to their body type. I know they don't - "muffin tops" abound - but we get it already, about the spandex.
@ 120, 121 (I obviously echo your point about access) & 126 = hear, hear.
131
@ 129, oh, nevermind. Making fun of spandex wearin' women AT THE GYM, who are clearly trying to get in better shape? What about the chubby MEN in your gym? Not as offensive? Find a men-only gym, since you hate the view, & grow up.
132
There are folks who live in very bad neighborhoods without nearby grocery stores, but somehow I doubt that the Sloggers claiming that they can't find good food live in ghetto.
I don't care if you are overweight. It's your life, but if it makes you unhappy do something about it.
If you drink regular sodas, you could drink diet.
Eat cheerios with skim milk and a banana, not a sausage McMuffin with cheese.
If you eat fatty chips, you could choose to eat pretzels, or several other lower calorie & fat alternatives that are available right now in your local grocery store. (While pretzels are generally low fat, they are not calorie free, so you still don't have license to eat the whole bag.) Better yet, you could get some finger food vegetables and fruits.
When eating out, don't get the fried food. If the menu describes something as crispy, it's FRIED. Even McDonald's offers salads and grilled chicken sandwiches. Just skip the mayo, and get the honey mustard or BBQ sauce. Order the side salad instead of the fries. Virtually all fast food and chain restaurants make their nutritional info available online.
Have a piece of fudge, not the whole pound.
View not eating fatty, sugary, empty calories foods as a permanent lifestyle change, not a diet that will end at some point in the future.
Trade a half hour of TV, video game or computer time for exercise time at least 4 or more times a week. You don't have to go to a gym. Walk/run, even if you do it in place. Walk up and down some stairs. Buy a kitchen timer, set it to 30 minutes, and just start moving enough to break a sweat, and breath heavily. The possibilities are endless, but you have to exercise on a regular basis for the rest of your life. That still won't give you license to eat whatever you want.
That's just a few examples, but there are thousands of ways.
Yes there is are a few people who can eat what ever they want, and sit around all day and not gain a pound. (Although more often than not, that is your perception of that person, and not a reality.) As my mama used to say, "Life ain't fair!" You are not someone who can do that, and still be thin. Accept that about yourself.
No "As Seen On TV" pill is going to solve your weight problem. Effortless weight loss plans are a sham.
If you are not willing to take responsibility for your diet and exercise routines, and/or you are going to blame your heft on outside forces, then you must accept that you are going to be overweight. If you're okay with that, then own it.
More...
I don't care if you are overweight. It's your life, but if it makes you unhappy do something about it.
If you drink regular sodas, you could drink diet.
Eat cheerios with skim milk and a banana, not a sausage McMuffin with cheese.
If you eat fatty chips, you could choose to eat pretzels, or several other lower calorie & fat alternatives that are available right now in your local grocery store. (While pretzels are generally low fat, they are not calorie free, so you still don't have license to eat the whole bag.) Better yet, you could get some finger food vegetables and fruits.
When eating out, don't get the fried food. If the menu describes something as crispy, it's FRIED. Even McDonald's offers salads and grilled chicken sandwiches. Just skip the mayo, and get the honey mustard or BBQ sauce. Order the side salad instead of the fries. Virtually all fast food and chain restaurants make their nutritional info available online.
Have a piece of fudge, not the whole pound.
View not eating fatty, sugary, empty calories foods as a permanent lifestyle change, not a diet that will end at some point in the future.
Trade a half hour of TV, video game or computer time for exercise time at least 4 or more times a week. You don't have to go to a gym. Walk/run, even if you do it in place. Walk up and down some stairs. Buy a kitchen timer, set it to 30 minutes, and just start moving enough to break a sweat, and breath heavily. The possibilities are endless, but you have to exercise on a regular basis for the rest of your life. That still won't give you license to eat whatever you want.
That's just a few examples, but there are thousands of ways.
Yes there is are a few people who can eat what ever they want, and sit around all day and not gain a pound. (Although more often than not, that is your perception of that person, and not a reality.) As my mama used to say, "Life ain't fair!" You are not someone who can do that, and still be thin. Accept that about yourself.
No "As Seen On TV" pill is going to solve your weight problem. Effortless weight loss plans are a sham.
If you are not willing to take responsibility for your diet and exercise routines, and/or you are going to blame your heft on outside forces, then you must accept that you are going to be overweight. If you're okay with that, then own it.
133
126, If one says to him or herself, "I can't lose weight until the food corporations change their ways!", then that individual is going to be forever fat. They will however lose weight if they replace the italicized words with personal pronouns.
134
"But I have a magic ingredient to achieve my farmer's market trips: A CAR"
Please, every time I cruise down da' hood I have to dodge all the fat ghetto honeys driving late 90s Lexus and BMWs. They've got cars. Maybe if they spent less on the rims and more on collared greens it'd help.
"There's farm monopolies, where there's only one kinda soybean; our tomatoes are grown to last long, not taste good; advertising focuses on things that make money for eateries - money shots of juicy burgers, big steaks, cheesy pizzas. High fructose corn syrup is consumed in the US at a horrifying rate since the mid-70's. "
I don't doubt that for a second. But no individual fat person can blame their corpulence on a corporation, sorry. Take away their responsibility in their choices, then they deserve even less respect.
Please, every time I cruise down da' hood I have to dodge all the fat ghetto honeys driving late 90s Lexus and BMWs. They've got cars. Maybe if they spent less on the rims and more on collared greens it'd help.
"There's farm monopolies, where there's only one kinda soybean; our tomatoes are grown to last long, not taste good; advertising focuses on things that make money for eateries - money shots of juicy burgers, big steaks, cheesy pizzas. High fructose corn syrup is consumed in the US at a horrifying rate since the mid-70's. "
I don't doubt that for a second. But no individual fat person can blame their corpulence on a corporation, sorry. Take away their responsibility in their choices, then they deserve even less respect.
135
129: Yes, food needs to be regulated, and drugs need to be legalized ...so that they can be regulated. How is that inconsistent?
We've established that diet and lack of exercise is the most common cause of obesity. I can't say much about the lack of exercise, but I know that there are reasons that Americans' diets are so bad besides just laziness. Our entire food industry is set up in a way that makes a bad diet the "easier" and cheaper choice. While you and I might be able to brag about how we research our food and spend the extra money for healthier stuff, you also have to look at the big picture. And that is that the easier, cheaper option will always be the most common one. It doesn't, however, have to be the least healthy one.
It's true that it takes just a little effort and a little extra cash to eat healthy (so long as you have no kids and a steady job that pays enough). I say it shouldn't, though, because the reality is that it doesn't have to. It would be simple to do a better job regulating food and increasing the health standards for the food industry, so that healthier foods become the norm, rather than rare specialty items that you have to search for.
I'm not trying to make a bunch of excuses for individual people who buy the cheapest, nearest food item without looking at the ingredients. I'm just pointing out the reality of the situation; the inevitability that this is how most people go about their business when it comes to buying food. Sure, if we adopt a system where healthy food is the standard (and therefore cheaper and more widely distributed), we'll no longer be able to feel proud about the rare efforts we put into our healthy diets. But oh fucking well; I give a bigger shit about results than bragging rights. Plus, I'd love it if my standards for food suddenly became cheaper and easier to come by; if I no longer have to part with as much of my time and money to stay healthy, all the better.
More...
We've established that diet and lack of exercise is the most common cause of obesity. I can't say much about the lack of exercise, but I know that there are reasons that Americans' diets are so bad besides just laziness. Our entire food industry is set up in a way that makes a bad diet the "easier" and cheaper choice. While you and I might be able to brag about how we research our food and spend the extra money for healthier stuff, you also have to look at the big picture. And that is that the easier, cheaper option will always be the most common one. It doesn't, however, have to be the least healthy one.
It's true that it takes just a little effort and a little extra cash to eat healthy (so long as you have no kids and a steady job that pays enough). I say it shouldn't, though, because the reality is that it doesn't have to. It would be simple to do a better job regulating food and increasing the health standards for the food industry, so that healthier foods become the norm, rather than rare specialty items that you have to search for.
I'm not trying to make a bunch of excuses for individual people who buy the cheapest, nearest food item without looking at the ingredients. I'm just pointing out the reality of the situation; the inevitability that this is how most people go about their business when it comes to buying food. Sure, if we adopt a system where healthy food is the standard (and therefore cheaper and more widely distributed), we'll no longer be able to feel proud about the rare efforts we put into our healthy diets. But oh fucking well; I give a bigger shit about results than bragging rights. Plus, I'd love it if my standards for food suddenly became cheaper and easier to come by; if I no longer have to part with as much of my time and money to stay healthy, all the better.
136
You're never too poor for one of these:
http://www.lakewoodconferences.com/direc…
.....and a bus ticket.
http://www.lakewoodconferences.com/direc…
.....and a bus ticket.
137
"Our entire food industry is set up in a way that makes a bad diet the "easier" and cheaper choice."
So basically these people are fu*king lazy. Thanks, that's what we've been saying all along.
So basically these people are fu*king lazy. Thanks, that's what we've been saying all along.
138
"cheaper choice."
Only if you are lazy. Cooking fresh food can be cheaper and more affordable than package food if you make the effort.....or not put $2000 rims on the Escalade.
Only if you are lazy. Cooking fresh food can be cheaper and more affordable than package food if you make the effort.....or not put $2000 rims on the Escalade.
139
The light chicken vegetable soup doesn't cost any more than the cream of chicken soup, yet it has far fewer calories, and fat. Pretzels are no more expensive than chips. Skim milk is the same price as whole. A bag of whole grain rice is one of the cheapest things you can buy. More and more Americans just turn their noses up at those choices. Instead of rice they choose the mac & cheese. Food companies are going to produce and sell the foods that the market demands.
140
The problem in America has been the death of family cooking culture, especially ETHNIC family cooking culture. People are just too lazy to plan and then spend an hour every evening cooking fresh food from scratch and eating a fresh family meal. It cuts too much into mom's 'American Idol' tv time, Dad's cruising web porn (assuming their is a dad), little Miss Fatties texting time and Jumbo Juniors Nintendo time. I know couples who work 60 hrs week and still manage to eat well. It's juts an issue of making food culture part of your life.
Otherwise, you're just a fat lazy fu*k and need to keep your ass out of my seat on the flight.
Otherwise, you're just a fat lazy fu*k and need to keep your ass out of my seat on the flight.
141
Whoa, whoa, hold the fuck on. WHERE, exactly, is fast food cheap?
I've been so poor I could not buy food, or not buy much at all, and I could no more have gone to McDonald's than to the moon. Know what's really really cheap? Brown rice. Dry black beans. Some bullion to flavor it with. Cheap ground beef, or even cheaper, tofu, as a protein. I used to go by supermarkets and fantasize about fried fish sticks (you do crave greasy shit when you're always hungry, probably because of the high caloric content), but buying some? Nuh-uh. Cheap vegetables, also. Shit like soda was right off the table.
Yeah, there are some choices besides going hog-wild at Whole Foods, and getting the family bucket at KFC.
I've been so poor I could not buy food, or not buy much at all, and I could no more have gone to McDonald's than to the moon. Know what's really really cheap? Brown rice. Dry black beans. Some bullion to flavor it with. Cheap ground beef, or even cheaper, tofu, as a protein. I used to go by supermarkets and fantasize about fried fish sticks (you do crave greasy shit when you're always hungry, probably because of the high caloric content), but buying some? Nuh-uh. Cheap vegetables, also. Shit like soda was right off the table.
Yeah, there are some choices besides going hog-wild at Whole Foods, and getting the family bucket at KFC.
142
@ 140 - I actually agree with you about something. *faints* Indeed, people don't spend time cooking, that's a huge problem.
I don't blame corporations, fast food, poverty, etc for MY being fat. (I have PCOS, couldn't afford insurance, now on meds). I am saying the food corporations/agribusiness and lack of fast, healthy choices in some areas that need 'em is part of a larger, cultural problem that contributes to obesity in America - which (although for a different reason) is something you just said too. Our food culture, in many ways, is fucked.
@ 141, fast food itself, per meal, is not actually cheaper than the sorts of cheap proteins & starch you describe. Fast food *is* cheaper than lean beef, lean chicken, veggies for stir fry, fruit. Plus: I live in a city. Outside the city = 7 grocery stores. Inside the city = 1. Also inside the city = @ least 8 fast food joints. I've been through a lot of towns in the Midwest where there's a lone grocery store, often not very well stocked, & many FF eateries.
I haven't eaten fast "food" at all for over 5 years. When you do roadtrips for work a lot, that's challenging. But it's so...vile & greasy.
I don't blame corporations, fast food, poverty, etc for MY being fat. (I have PCOS, couldn't afford insurance, now on meds). I am saying the food corporations/agribusiness and lack of fast, healthy choices in some areas that need 'em is part of a larger, cultural problem that contributes to obesity in America - which (although for a different reason) is something you just said too. Our food culture, in many ways, is fucked.
@ 141, fast food itself, per meal, is not actually cheaper than the sorts of cheap proteins & starch you describe. Fast food *is* cheaper than lean beef, lean chicken, veggies for stir fry, fruit. Plus: I live in a city. Outside the city = 7 grocery stores. Inside the city = 1. Also inside the city = @ least 8 fast food joints. I've been through a lot of towns in the Midwest where there's a lone grocery store, often not very well stocked, & many FF eateries.
I haven't eaten fast "food" at all for over 5 years. When you do roadtrips for work a lot, that's challenging. But it's so...vile & greasy.
143
You know what, Stupid White Man, the terms stupid, lazy and crazy are the most common dismissive terms in the American English lexicon to suggest one's dysfunction is a matter of lack of character. Presently 26% of the adults in the US are obese, and you're saying they're all lazy? If obesity were infectious, it'd be pandemic.
Bullshit. We are one of the hardest working nations in the world, whether you measure it by hours worked or product per capita. (In the '90s, we were the hardest working nation, but we've likely slipped during the new millennium.) I find it fucked up how quickly people forget how their own circumstances seldom compare to those of others, even when problems may appear similar. I'd like to think that most of the regulars of SLOG would have enough personal insight to be aware of this (especially Dan, in fact).
Around here (San Francisco), It'd take me about $15 to make spaghetti (the noodles being the cheapest of the bunch) from fresh vegetables, enough to make six meals. A Costco combination pizza (i.e. an everything pizza) is $10 and makes eight meals. TV dinners on sale are around $2. Pre-canned soup on sale is $1.50. Feel free to do the math.
Some of you might be able to go to an organics specialty store like Whole Foods or Rainbow Foods and spend $5+ per pound of vegetables, but I, for one, cannot. I have to be able to function on a sustenance income. Much of America is in a similar lot.
And that stupid cart is great if you're 5'6 and live next to your market. For those of us who are taller, it's a fast-track to a broken back, and that cart is the most hated thing on the local municipal trolleys, and all the other passengers won't hesitate to remind you of this.
So those of you who are tired of looking at America's fat asses or knows someone who's suffering from obesity-onset diabetes, the system needs to change, or it's going to start looking like a plague, and we'll still probably be saying it's their own damn fault for eating too much or exercising too little.
During the great depression, it was noted It's not like anyone is starving. No, rather they were living on flour paste and dying of nutrition. Amazingly few notice the similarity.
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Bullshit. We are one of the hardest working nations in the world, whether you measure it by hours worked or product per capita. (In the '90s, we were the hardest working nation, but we've likely slipped during the new millennium.) I find it fucked up how quickly people forget how their own circumstances seldom compare to those of others, even when problems may appear similar. I'd like to think that most of the regulars of SLOG would have enough personal insight to be aware of this (especially Dan, in fact).
Around here (San Francisco), It'd take me about $15 to make spaghetti (the noodles being the cheapest of the bunch) from fresh vegetables, enough to make six meals. A Costco combination pizza (i.e. an everything pizza) is $10 and makes eight meals. TV dinners on sale are around $2. Pre-canned soup on sale is $1.50. Feel free to do the math.
Some of you might be able to go to an organics specialty store like Whole Foods or Rainbow Foods and spend $5+ per pound of vegetables, but I, for one, cannot. I have to be able to function on a sustenance income. Much of America is in a similar lot.
And that stupid cart is great if you're 5'6 and live next to your market. For those of us who are taller, it's a fast-track to a broken back, and that cart is the most hated thing on the local municipal trolleys, and all the other passengers won't hesitate to remind you of this.
So those of you who are tired of looking at America's fat asses or knows someone who's suffering from obesity-onset diabetes, the system needs to change, or it's going to start looking like a plague, and we'll still probably be saying it's their own damn fault for eating too much or exercising too little.
During the great depression, it was noted It's not like anyone is starving. No, rather they were living on flour paste and dying of nutrition. Amazingly few notice the similarity.
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One other random comment. When I lived in Chicago, the number of grocery stores was extremely limited... and I usually lived in reasonably affluent areas. It did improve in the past few years (Trader Joes opened a couple of locations in the city, Whole Foods opened a new location), but there were times when my closest store was a 10-12 min drive (let alone walking or bus).
I am amazed at the sheer number of grocery store options here in Eugene. People here look at me funny when I mention it, but within a reasonable distance of my house (5-7 min. drive) there is a Safeway, an Albertson's, a Market of Choice, and two local grocers (plus a great local meat market and fish market). A little further away there's Winco, Fred Meyer, et al. It's crazy compared to what I used to have....
I am amazed at the sheer number of grocery store options here in Eugene. People here look at me funny when I mention it, but within a reasonable distance of my house (5-7 min. drive) there is a Safeway, an Albertson's, a Market of Choice, and two local grocers (plus a great local meat market and fish market). A little further away there's Winco, Fred Meyer, et al. It's crazy compared to what I used to have....
145
#43, you must be buying, or not buying, some fantastic vegetables. I was at (gasp) the dreaded Whole Foods last night. Pasta was $1.50. Sauce, when you ignore the expensive brands and go with the store brand, about $2.50. I guarantee you, for $10 I can feel more people with spaghetti, and have them feel full longer and healthier afterwards, than you can with an everything pizza.
If you're at Cosco, you get meat in bulk, greens in bulk, and they're still cheap. Buy the pizza, you'll be hungry an hour later, plus feel like shit. Oh yeah, and take in a bunch of useless calories. Rice, beans, cheaper vegs like cabbage/chopped spinach, that $1.50 soup as a flavoring over rice (one can good for about 3 meals). I have subsisted on a sustenance income, for months at a time, and pizza ain't anywhere near a good option.
If you're at Cosco, you get meat in bulk, greens in bulk, and they're still cheap. Buy the pizza, you'll be hungry an hour later, plus feel like shit. Oh yeah, and take in a bunch of useless calories. Rice, beans, cheaper vegs like cabbage/chopped spinach, that $1.50 soup as a flavoring over rice (one can good for about 3 meals). I have subsisted on a sustenance income, for months at a time, and pizza ain't anywhere near a good option.
146
#43, you must be buying, or not buying, some fantastic vegetables. I was at (gasp) the dreaded Whole Foods last night. Pasta was $1.50. Sauce, when you ignore the expensive brands and go with the store brand, about $2.50. I guarantee you, for $10 I can feel more people with spaghetti, and have them feel full longer and healthier afterwards, than you can with an everything pizza.
If you're at Cosco, you get meat in bulk, greens in bulk, and they're still cheap. Buy the pizza, you'll be hungry an hour later, plus feel like shit. Oh yeah, and take in a bunch of useless calories. Rice, beans, cheaper vegs like cabbage/chopped spinach, that $1.50 soup as a flavoring over rice (one can good for about 3 meals). I have subsisted on a sustenance income, for months at a time, and pizza ain't anywhere near a good option.
If you're at Cosco, you get meat in bulk, greens in bulk, and they're still cheap. Buy the pizza, you'll be hungry an hour later, plus feel like shit. Oh yeah, and take in a bunch of useless calories. Rice, beans, cheaper vegs like cabbage/chopped spinach, that $1.50 soup as a flavoring over rice (one can good for about 3 meals). I have subsisted on a sustenance income, for months at a time, and pizza ain't anywhere near a good option.
147
Seriously, Dan. This isn't your topic.
You've already described your own fat/self-hate issues in terms any eating-disorder sufferer would immediately empathize with. While it's pretty easy to find people that hate and fear fat, it's tough to find an effective method for permanent weight/fat loss that isn't footnoted: Results Not Typical. Because? DIETING DOES NOT FUCKING WORK.
Your particular brand of constant starvation seems to be keeping you from becoming fat, though it bears noting that many fat people practice anorexia too - it just doesn't make them thin. So even if you keep up the anorexia for life and your body remains under the radar of fat-hate, you're still going to suffer. Openly, you've complained of frequent bouts of insomnia and hated the fat in your family genetics. Fine. If fear of fat is so compelling that starvation-for-life, shit-talking your family and not sleeping are attractive trade-offs for you, it is absolutely your right to make that trade. You just don't have a right to expect everyone else who's got fat genes to stop living like normal fucking human beings - you know, ones that both eat AND sleep, and maybe even are at peace with looking like people they're related to - to satisfy your desire to not see fat people.
Fat people have a right to exist, you do not have a right to eliminate fat people from the world to satisfy your aesthetic preferences. Just like the gay-haters don't have a right to scienterrifically define you out of existence in order to meet their own bigoted ideas of who should populate the world and how much they should all look like members of the 700 club.
It's so bizarre that you choose this subject, Dan, since all the arguments you would like to make about genetics and fat ('if it's not genetic, then people don't have a right to be fat after all!') are the same stupid, bullshit arguments that gay-haters make about you, and your right to exist ('gay isn't an intrinsic quality! they're chooosing to be gay at me!').
Not seeing the parallels, that's a lot dimmer than your normally are. Open your eyes, already - it's embarrassing to hear you parrot the FOX nooze argument style.
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You've already described your own fat/self-hate issues in terms any eating-disorder sufferer would immediately empathize with. While it's pretty easy to find people that hate and fear fat, it's tough to find an effective method for permanent weight/fat loss that isn't footnoted: Results Not Typical. Because? DIETING DOES NOT FUCKING WORK.
Your particular brand of constant starvation seems to be keeping you from becoming fat, though it bears noting that many fat people practice anorexia too - it just doesn't make them thin. So even if you keep up the anorexia for life and your body remains under the radar of fat-hate, you're still going to suffer. Openly, you've complained of frequent bouts of insomnia and hated the fat in your family genetics. Fine. If fear of fat is so compelling that starvation-for-life, shit-talking your family and not sleeping are attractive trade-offs for you, it is absolutely your right to make that trade. You just don't have a right to expect everyone else who's got fat genes to stop living like normal fucking human beings - you know, ones that both eat AND sleep, and maybe even are at peace with looking like people they're related to - to satisfy your desire to not see fat people.
Fat people have a right to exist, you do not have a right to eliminate fat people from the world to satisfy your aesthetic preferences. Just like the gay-haters don't have a right to scienterrifically define you out of existence in order to meet their own bigoted ideas of who should populate the world and how much they should all look like members of the 700 club.
It's so bizarre that you choose this subject, Dan, since all the arguments you would like to make about genetics and fat ('if it's not genetic, then people don't have a right to be fat after all!') are the same stupid, bullshit arguments that gay-haters make about you, and your right to exist ('gay isn't an intrinsic quality! they're chooosing to be gay at me!').
Not seeing the parallels, that's a lot dimmer than your normally are. Open your eyes, already - it's embarrassing to hear you parrot the FOX nooze argument style.
148
cat brother I envy your magical cooking skills. Note that mine, while not insignificant, themselves, do not compare, nor does my willpower to use them when all I want, sometimes, is to not be hungry and go to sleep. I suspect your typical American is even less skilled and less willful. I also suspect I'd go crazy eating as you do.
I'm kind of an oddball that way, though. I may rarely patronize fast food franchises, and have a decent sense of nutrition (or more importantly, what my body needs), but if someone feeds me too much of the raw vegan foodstuffs for which California is stereotyped, my entire body feels strange until I can stuff my face with a burger or a donut. Of course, my mother tried to go vegetarian in the '70s and failed miserably after a week, so that may be hereditary propensity towards omnivorism.
Still, while, granted, it's anecdotal and localized to this region, it's from a chain of friends in the food industry (including a sous-chef, a fine dining waitress and a restaurant supplier) that I've heard the common complaint: it's by far easier and cheaper to purchase prefab food than it is to make it--unless you're serving a boarding house or have a walk-in freezer.
I'm kind of an oddball that way, though. I may rarely patronize fast food franchises, and have a decent sense of nutrition (or more importantly, what my body needs), but if someone feeds me too much of the raw vegan foodstuffs for which California is stereotyped, my entire body feels strange until I can stuff my face with a burger or a donut. Of course, my mother tried to go vegetarian in the '70s and failed miserably after a week, so that may be hereditary propensity towards omnivorism.
Still, while, granted, it's anecdotal and localized to this region, it's from a chain of friends in the food industry (including a sous-chef, a fine dining waitress and a restaurant supplier) that I've heard the common complaint: it's by far easier and cheaper to purchase prefab food than it is to make it--unless you're serving a boarding house or have a walk-in freezer.
149
Actually she is only 4'10" and eating 1600-1800 isn't going to help her to lose a substantial amount of weight in even a healthy amount of time. Her big problem is having the same diet as her dude that is nearly 2 feet taller than her. He is bigger, he needs more. She is smaller and could sustain on much less. American portion sizes are not made for someone who is 4'10".
Dramatically cutting calories isn't going to help her keep off any weight she loses. What she needs depends on how much she weighs, which sounds like a vicious cycle except it isn't:
The best approach is to first figure out your caloric requirements based on your current size, which in her case would be dramatically more than 1600-1800. Then taper down your diet by starting with a total 100-200 calories or so smaller than that required total. The key is not to eat much less, but to eat smaller portions more often, so that the metabolism continues to rev and avoids the idle phases that promote fat storing. As your weight begins to come down, continue tapering down another 100-200 calories, then another segment as you get lighter, and on down until you've shed the weight you don't want/need. If she's getting the exercise she states she's getting, she should be able to burn fat under this approach.
A dramatic shortfall compared to what your body requires, however, only stands to starve your body and encourage it to store more of what you eat as fat. Even if you lose, say, 10-20 pounds in the short term, your metabolism slows to a crawl and makes it easier for you to gain it all back, maybe even more.
150
@ 147,
That was really well said.
I guess I'm a lot like, Dan. I'm not up at night, but I really control what goes in my mouth. It's like a math problem, calories intake must correlate with exercise output. I know that I don't want to be like my parents, both have a lot of health issues (some outside their control) and are obese. I'm at peace with my decision to monitor my eating, but I understand that many would not wish to eat as I do. Still, there are rare days when I just want to chuck it all. I do chuck it sometimes, but always with a limit of how long and how much, and a plan for getting back on track. To each there own.
Thanks for the food for thought.
That was really well said.
I guess I'm a lot like, Dan. I'm not up at night, but I really control what goes in my mouth. It's like a math problem, calories intake must correlate with exercise output. I know that I don't want to be like my parents, both have a lot of health issues (some outside their control) and are obese. I'm at peace with my decision to monitor my eating, but I understand that many would not wish to eat as I do. Still, there are rare days when I just want to chuck it all. I do chuck it sometimes, but always with a limit of how long and how much, and a plan for getting back on track. To each there own.
Thanks for the food for thought.
151
Addendum: As for what your body requires, one of the many health nut Body-For-Life like books out there should be able to give you a rough idea of how many calories you need at your given weight. Flip through a few and look for sections that help you determine how many calories you need for your given weight.
One book I'd recommend finding and at least taking a look at is Power Eating by Susan Kleiner. Needless to say given the title , it's pretty specific about typical nutrition requirements if you're exercising. Failing that, take a look at one of the many incarnations of Michael Thurmond's Six Day Body Makeover. No need to get into the gimmick diet/exercise plan contained in the book: You're just looking for a baseline number of calories relative to your current size. It's honestly simple to lose weight... the process just takes a ton of discipline most of us don't naturally have, myself often included.
One book I'd recommend finding and at least taking a look at is Power Eating by Susan Kleiner. Needless to say given the title , it's pretty specific about typical nutrition requirements if you're exercising. Failing that, take a look at one of the many incarnations of Michael Thurmond's Six Day Body Makeover. No need to get into the gimmick diet/exercise plan contained in the book: You're just looking for a baseline number of calories relative to your current size. It's honestly simple to lose weight... the process just takes a ton of discipline most of us don't naturally have, myself often included.
152
I too have to bring up what's been previously noted, and what any international traveler can tell you - go overseas, not a lot of fat people. Americans are not some isolated gene pool a la the Galapagos Islands, they have a different lifestyle than most of the rest of the world. As a previous commenter noted, as that lifestyle gets exported, so does obesity. I work with a few expats, who travel home, return and are shocked by the differences in airport occupants, coming and going.
#148, no magic needed, I was just pointing out that even shopping at a boutique joint like WF, your pizza/spaghetti comparison doesn't hold water. I know this because I was forced to make the decision, and I could no more have gotten a pizza (ten meals? Really?) than I could have lunched in Gstaad.
No reason to go crazy on a diet of grains, legumes, cheap spices and greens, and cheaper cuts of meat, it's about as varied as you're up for making it. I did a lot of copying recipes from library cookbooks (free!), and seeing what I could piece together.
I don't want to exist on vegan foodstuffs either, but nobody's recommending that here. And I will call bullshit on your food industry friends' assertion that buying prefab food is cheaper than making the same amount yourself. Not out of a principled stand for home cooking, but from having $3.15 and having to eat for 2 days on it.
I
#148, no magic needed, I was just pointing out that even shopping at a boutique joint like WF, your pizza/spaghetti comparison doesn't hold water. I know this because I was forced to make the decision, and I could no more have gotten a pizza (ten meals? Really?) than I could have lunched in Gstaad.
No reason to go crazy on a diet of grains, legumes, cheap spices and greens, and cheaper cuts of meat, it's about as varied as you're up for making it. I did a lot of copying recipes from library cookbooks (free!), and seeing what I could piece together.
I don't want to exist on vegan foodstuffs either, but nobody's recommending that here. And I will call bullshit on your food industry friends' assertion that buying prefab food is cheaper than making the same amount yourself. Not out of a principled stand for home cooking, but from having $3.15 and having to eat for 2 days on it.
I
153
It is a God-given right to judge others by the choices they make, and how we feel about them accordingly.
I have sympathy for people who are overweight with a valid medical condition, under the condition that they have taken the appropriate medical steps to keep it under control (medications, diet, et cetera).
What I don't have sympathy for is the crowd of people both whining about how ugly they are/everyone makes them feel, and trying to stipulate that the rest of us have to find their lifestyle and body type attractive, as if it's our fault that they hate themselves. I've met "Big Beautiful Women", who were actually beautiful. They took care of themselves, and they were the minority. Most people insisting on being called a BBW are lazy, self-loathing, and weak willed. Which, generally speaking, isn't attractive.
We're a fat-assed country because of our eating habits and choices, not because the stars aligned to make you (the global you) fat. Take responsibility for your own choices. If you don't feel beautiful, either learn to accept who you are and love it, or change it. I am not (nor is the rest of the country) required to enable your chronic descent into more health problems and a pathetic pout fest.
There are worse fates than not being able to eat every second you feel the whim. There are worse fates than setting aside time to exercise, especially if you desire the result of both of those - a fitter, healthier you.
It's EASY to blame your current state on abstract concepts over which you OBVIOUSLY don't have any control (I was BORN fat! It's society's/my parent's/my genetic's fault! I can never be thin!), but it is EMPOWERING to own your own life and decide to carve your own path towards greater happiness, fulfillment, and peace. If being healthier/thinner/adhering more closely to your idea of Beauty would improve your life, quit excusing yourself from action and find the power to change your life for the better.
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I have sympathy for people who are overweight with a valid medical condition, under the condition that they have taken the appropriate medical steps to keep it under control (medications, diet, et cetera).
What I don't have sympathy for is the crowd of people both whining about how ugly they are/everyone makes them feel, and trying to stipulate that the rest of us have to find their lifestyle and body type attractive, as if it's our fault that they hate themselves. I've met "Big Beautiful Women", who were actually beautiful. They took care of themselves, and they were the minority. Most people insisting on being called a BBW are lazy, self-loathing, and weak willed. Which, generally speaking, isn't attractive.
We're a fat-assed country because of our eating habits and choices, not because the stars aligned to make you (the global you) fat. Take responsibility for your own choices. If you don't feel beautiful, either learn to accept who you are and love it, or change it. I am not (nor is the rest of the country) required to enable your chronic descent into more health problems and a pathetic pout fest.
There are worse fates than not being able to eat every second you feel the whim. There are worse fates than setting aside time to exercise, especially if you desire the result of both of those - a fitter, healthier you.
It's EASY to blame your current state on abstract concepts over which you OBVIOUSLY don't have any control (I was BORN fat! It's society's/my parent's/my genetic's fault! I can never be thin!), but it is EMPOWERING to own your own life and decide to carve your own path towards greater happiness, fulfillment, and peace. If being healthier/thinner/adhering more closely to your idea of Beauty would improve your life, quit excusing yourself from action and find the power to change your life for the better.
155
A big shock for me was crossing the border on a bike tour from Holland to Germany. You cross from cycling lifestyle to sedentary, and fresh food to sausage, and there is an instant increase in body size.
My mom is more tan twice my weight. My sisters are both overweight. One of them is only 19, and I believe she just thinks it's her destiny to be fat.
I'm racing the Ironman later this year and I am in great condition, BMI 19.5.
My little sis can make as many excuses as she wants, but it's up to her to change her lifestyle.
My mom is more tan twice my weight. My sisters are both overweight. One of them is only 19, and I believe she just thinks it's her destiny to be fat.
I'm racing the Ironman later this year and I am in great condition, BMI 19.5.
My little sis can make as many excuses as she wants, but it's up to her to change her lifestyle.
156
Did you know that Dan bulled fat kids in school.
Several of them committed suicide over it.
He's still never apologized.
Several of them committed suicide over it.
He's still never apologized.
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@149
You are, seemingly, very educated in this manner, how does that apply to the stomach stapling surgeries, or lap bands, etc.?
I went searching around on-line and I found that a person of 4'10 and 160lbs wanting to lose 2 lbs a week should eat no more than 1008 calories a day. Or, let's say 1lb a week: should eat no more than 1500 calories a day, also, if she wants to merely MAINTAIN her weight at 160 lbs she can only eat 2008 calories a day (which is only 201 calories more than the top range of 1600 - 1800 that you are saying is too low) ... I should add that is NET calories, so you can eat more if you burn more in a day. So are you saying that she should not attempt to lose only 1 lb a week? That's only 4 lbs a month! (my main source of info, I should add, is www.livestrong.com).
I KNOW that it is terrible for people to cut their calories SO low that they are starving their bodies, but, yes, height AND weight factor into calorie intake. If she really were eating only 1800 calories she would be VERY SLOWLY losing weight, chances are, she is not, because she is eating the same as a man that is 2 feet taller than her. His diet should be different from hers.
You are, seemingly, very educated in this manner, how does that apply to the stomach stapling surgeries, or lap bands, etc.?
I went searching around on-line and I found that a person of 4'10 and 160lbs wanting to lose 2 lbs a week should eat no more than 1008 calories a day. Or, let's say 1lb a week: should eat no more than 1500 calories a day, also, if she wants to merely MAINTAIN her weight at 160 lbs she can only eat 2008 calories a day (which is only 201 calories more than the top range of 1600 - 1800 that you are saying is too low) ... I should add that is NET calories, so you can eat more if you burn more in a day. So are you saying that she should not attempt to lose only 1 lb a week? That's only 4 lbs a month! (my main source of info, I should add, is www.livestrong.com).
I KNOW that it is terrible for people to cut their calories SO low that they are starving their bodies, but, yes, height AND weight factor into calorie intake. If she really were eating only 1800 calories she would be VERY SLOWLY losing weight, chances are, she is not, because she is eating the same as a man that is 2 feet taller than her. His diet should be different from hers.
158
Actually, according to their scale, if the person in question is moderately active and 30 years old, she'll need 1889 calories a day to lose 1 lb per week and 1389 to lose 2 lbs per. She may need more if she's younger.
Remember that the person in question says she exercises. When you exercise, you need calories (and if she does more than walking and house cleaning, then she's more than moderately active and will need more calories).
Otherwise the body burns existing muscle, slows your metabolism and stores more of what you eat as fat, which is counterproductive to losing weight and keeping it off.
And of course, this scale entirely ignores dietary choices, which play a huge part as well. Protein is a big time building block to losing weight since it's converted to fat-burning muscle while extra carbs and most fat typically get stored as fat. And if she's vegetarian/vegan and not seeing any progress, she's probably not getting enough protein.
Remember that the person in question says she exercises. When you exercise, you need calories (and if she does more than walking and house cleaning, then she's more than moderately active and will need more calories).
Otherwise the body burns existing muscle, slows your metabolism and stores more of what you eat as fat, which is counterproductive to losing weight and keeping it off.
And of course, this scale entirely ignores dietary choices, which play a huge part as well. Protein is a big time building block to losing weight since it's converted to fat-burning muscle while extra carbs and most fat typically get stored as fat. And if she's vegetarian/vegan and not seeing any progress, she's probably not getting enough protein.
159
The odd obsession that Dan has with attacking fat people continues. I'm sure that someone, somewhere is obsessed with mocking people who offer trite observations and bromides about relationships. It all equals out.
160
#107
Did you just call Dan a nazi?!
Jesus Fucking Christ.
no matter how much you want to make lamps out of our hides.
Did you just call Dan a nazi?!
Jesus Fucking Christ.
161
Those people shouldn't be allowed to adopt or raise children, because they will be passing their unhealthy and immoral lifestyle on to their children. Those people just need to change their behavior to that of normal people, and then we will stop hating them.
Where have I heard that before?
Where have I heard that before?
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