Sunday, July 12, 2009
City This City Sometimes
Posted by Charles Mudede on Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 9:41 AM
It's moments like this that make me embarrassed to be a citizen of this city: 
You folks have to get used to the noise of the trains. The noise has a rattling rhythm that can actually put you to sleep. That rattling and clanking, the grinding and grating (the dub beat of metal against metal), is not going to go away. This is the city; this is not the country. Please come to that most important of all urban understandings. We have to uproot these country attitudes that thrive like weeds in our metropolis.
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3
I hear those trains are awfully loud.
It glides as softly as a cloud.
What about us braindead slobs?
You'll be given cushy jobs!
The ring came off my pudding can.
Take my penknife, my good man!
Were you sent here by the devil?
No good sir, I'm on the level!
It glides as softly as a cloud.
What about us braindead slobs?
You'll be given cushy jobs!
The ring came off my pudding can.
Take my penknife, my good man!
Were you sent here by the devil?
No good sir, I'm on the level!
5
Thanks, Mr Mudede. Something is really wrong, I find myself agreeing with you more and more. It won't last.
8
Those people are fucking dipshits. Light rail trains make little noise, other than the horns and/or bells used to warn people that they're coming.
10
Transit can do no wrong.
Tukwila is an urban area.
Light rail -- connecting urban, dense neighborhoods~!
War is peace and big brother is watching out for you.
Zimbabwe is a democracy.
Tukwila is an urban area.
Light rail -- connecting urban, dense neighborhoods~!
War is peace and big brother is watching out for you.
Zimbabwe is a democracy.
11
They should just get used to the noise, but officials should have leveled with residents from the beginning that a little noise is the price of progress.
12
Since they won't be blaring music like the cars that drive by, or cockadoodling like the rooster that lives somewhere near me, I think the noise level will be just fine. Plus, I'll never have to drive to the airport (or take the 174) again! In a cost/benefit analysis: light rail is good.
14
Did you read the article? The noise is about twice what was expected. This seems like one of those things were some reasonable mitigation, like sound walls, is implemented and everyone goes on with their lives.
15
The people who razed African American neighborhoods to build the modern highway system in the 1950s and 60s believed the same thing, had the same arrogance, the same contempt for democratic processes for public works to accommodate its critics. Not to say all mitigation is reasonable, or all neighborhood groups enlightened. But to attack mitigation itself seems... mean-spirited, if not also anti-democratic.
17
I absolutely love agreeing with Charles...
and I totally agree with him on this one!
WOOHOO, YOU GO CHAaaaaaaaRLES.... MU-u-u-u-u-u-u-DEDE!
and I totally agree with him on this one!
WOOHOO, YOU GO CHAaaaaaaaRLES.... MU-u-u-u-u-u-u-DEDE!
18
GFY Charles - the line exceeds federal noise standards, which is a nice way of saying that Sound Transit is breaking the law.
The neighbors were right, and you little Robert Moses wanna-be's were wrong - period.
Mitigate and move on.
The neighbors were right, and you little Robert Moses wanna-be's were wrong - period.
Mitigate and move on.
19
So...they'll install some sound walls, and that will be the end of it. Reading the article, there's nothing that suggests that these Tukwilla residents are anti-light rail, they're just requesting some noise mitigation, which is perfectly reasonable.
20
@14: I actually read the article too (whadda concept!), and it states that the trains "exceed federal standards" and that the trains "create a 'moderate' impact under Federal Transit Administration rules" -- government rules, not just bitchy neighbors' complaints. It also points out that "train noise has been a recurring issue in Vancouver, BC and the Bay Area" (which I can vouch for from having lived near BART), meaning that "these country attitudes" aren't in any way exclusive to "our metropolis".
21
I'm from "the country." We had loud fucking metal trains (old-school ones, that are designed for cargo, not passengers). I miss the noise.
23
These are not "country attitudes."
These are the whinings of urbanites.
The tendency of Seattleites to point at everything outside the metaphorical city walls is childish.
These are the complaints of city folk. Blame them. Leave the country folk out of it.
These are the whinings of urbanites.
The tendency of Seattleites to point at everything outside the metaphorical city walls is childish.
These are the complaints of city folk. Blame them. Leave the country folk out of it.
24
People need to stop whining about this stuff.
You get used to it. After a month or so you don't even hear it. I've lived right on light rail lines in SF for a total of 8.5 years. In both cases it ran/runs in the street right in front of my house. Where I live now, it makes a turn (curves are loud, and workers come and lubricate the inside rail every few days with grease so it's less noisy).
I'd wager, too, that the new route in Seattle is much quieter than SF because ours were built a very long time ago.
Mostly, though, I don't hear it. After a while, your brain just blocks it out.
The diesel bus that runs on my street is louder (but the electric bus o the other route is the quietest of all, I must say).
You get used to it. After a month or so you don't even hear it. I've lived right on light rail lines in SF for a total of 8.5 years. In both cases it ran/runs in the street right in front of my house. Where I live now, it makes a turn (curves are loud, and workers come and lubricate the inside rail every few days with grease so it's less noisy).
I'd wager, too, that the new route in Seattle is much quieter than SF because ours were built a very long time ago.
Mostly, though, I don't hear it. After a while, your brain just blocks it out.
The diesel bus that runs on my street is louder (but the electric bus o the other route is the quietest of all, I must say).
25
People need to stop whining about this stuff.
You get used to it. After a month or so you don't even hear it. I've lived right on light rail lines in SF for a total of 8.5 years. In both cases the train (N & J lines) ran/runs in the street right in front of my house. Where I live now, it even makes a turn and curves are louder, but workers come and lubricate the inside rail every few days with grease so it's less noisy.
I'd wager, too, that the new route in Seattle is much quieter than SF because ours were built a very long time ago.
Mostly, though, I don't hear it. After a while, your brain just blocks it out.
The diesel bus that runs on my street is louder (but the electric bus o the other route is the quietest of all, I must say).
You get used to it. After a month or so you don't even hear it. I've lived right on light rail lines in SF for a total of 8.5 years. In both cases the train (N & J lines) ran/runs in the street right in front of my house. Where I live now, it even makes a turn and curves are louder, but workers come and lubricate the inside rail every few days with grease so it's less noisy.
I'd wager, too, that the new route in Seattle is much quieter than SF because ours were built a very long time ago.
Mostly, though, I don't hear it. After a while, your brain just blocks it out.
The diesel bus that runs on my street is louder (but the electric bus o the other route is the quietest of all, I must say).
26
@23 - the crime of complaining without understanding seems to run amok on this thread. yes, they're the complaints of city folk. But as you yourself quoted, it's city folk with 'country attitude'. a country attitude is fine, and not a problem IN THE COUNTRY. that's where people move to get away from other people and noise. But it IS a ridiculous attitude in the city, because you are not in the country.
That said, the complaints are validated by the fact that the threshold for sound has already been set (one hopes in a reasonable matter) by the government. to all of you coming down on the complainers, what would you set as the threshold? must city-dwellers allow heavy rail lines to be built next to their houses, since 'they were asking for it' by living in an urban area? Why do you get to make that decision?
That said, the complaints are validated by the fact that the threshold for sound has already been set (one hopes in a reasonable matter) by the government. to all of you coming down on the complainers, what would you set as the threshold? must city-dwellers allow heavy rail lines to be built next to their houses, since 'they were asking for it' by living in an urban area? Why do you get to make that decision?
27
There are federal- not Seattle- noise standards that determine when transit noise needs to be mitigated. Absent evidence to the contrary, let's assume that those standards set a fair balance between the needs of the few and the needs of the many. The service fails those standards.
For somebody that doesn't live there to tell the people who do to just suck it up is pretty arrogant.
This issue doesn't kill the transit line- it doesn't even delay it. It just requires that there be mitigation. Why bundle your undies over that?
The fact that the complaints of the residents were met with testing that was apparently performed honestly would make me *proud* to be a resident of Seattle, if I still was.
For somebody that doesn't live there to tell the people who do to just suck it up is pretty arrogant.
This issue doesn't kill the transit line- it doesn't even delay it. It just requires that there be mitigation. Why bundle your undies over that?
The fact that the complaints of the residents were met with testing that was apparently performed honestly would make me *proud* to be a resident of Seattle, if I still was.
28
@22, if i were killed in some foreign country in some spectacular way, it would be reported that one US citizen died.
29
I'm one (in the minority, if you believe Slog comments) who typically appreciates and agrees with Charles The American.
Not this time. The noise is measurable, the complaints are reasonable, and this snotty post is more-urban-than-thou whining. Light rail must mitigate its fuckup.
Not this time. The noise is measurable, the complaints are reasonable, and this snotty post is more-urban-than-thou whining. Light rail must mitigate its fuckup.
31
@ 20: I live in Vancouver, BC. I've lived here for my entire life and I have never, ever heard a single person complain about the noise from the Skytrain. Right now I live about five minutes from a Skytrain station and I've never heard complaints. If there's a "noise issue" it's news to me.
32
So let's see, you live under the flight path to two airports, next to a freeway and by the mainline of the BNSF Railway and now you're gonna bitch about light rail. Fuck you.
33
The I-5 corridor causes 24hr noise hundreds of feet in each direction. Listen to it. That means ALL of the Roosevelt District, Capitol Hill, International District, etc. Just listen. Tires are noisy.
34
They tore down an ekevated line in NYC and had an all night party to celebrate.
I-5 should be quieted.
Skytrain uses a different system with no power to the wheels - LIM
Robert Moses didn't build transit, he built highways and bridges.
I-5 should be quieted.
Skytrain uses a different system with no power to the wheels - LIM
Robert Moses didn't build transit, he built highways and bridges.
35
14 and 19 are correct: They'll just put up some sound walls and that will be the end of it.
What's ridiculous is the Seattle Times making it a front page article. This isn't news... unless you're Frank Blethen and you hate public transit.
What's ridiculous is the Seattle Times making it a front page article. This isn't news... unless you're Frank Blethen and you hate public transit.
36
Seattle is full of whiners. Seattle Times is run by the same whiners. I agree with you 100% Charles.
37
Noisy light rail? It sounds as if there's a problem with the trains or the track. Instead of putting up sound barriers, maybe they should check that out, because light rail (that's running the way it should) is pretty silent (except for the horns/bells and t-boned motorists).
38
I agree with you, Charles. But don't let that stop you from finding a new home in a city more palatable to your taste.
Did that sound negative? Maybe that's because all you ever do is whine about how terrible Seattle is or brag about how incredible someplace you used to live is.
Whining through 'poetry' is still whining.
Did that sound negative? Maybe that's because all you ever do is whine about how terrible Seattle is or brag about how incredible someplace you used to live is.
Whining through 'poetry' is still whining.
40
@35: These are federal standards. Money will likely have to be spent to mitigate the noise. Your money and my money. Why would that not be news?
42
These are federal standards. Money will likely have to be spent to mitigate the noise. Your money and my money. Why would that not be news?
Because if they're Federal standards then of course they're going to do what must be done to meet them. Who doesn't?
And governing bodies spend large sums of money in more ways than you can fathom, many of which are never documented.
This is only front page "news" for the Seattle Times because Frank Blethen hates public transport using government money, and will take any opportunity to prominently slam it in his personal zine ERR newspaper.
43
Charles,
You are the guy who loves ugly concrete buildings as honest -- so step down from giving advice.
Next you'll be saying violent street assaults are very urban and smelly garbage in the city equivalent of durian. good grief.
You are the guy who loves ugly concrete buildings as honest -- so step down from giving advice.
Next you'll be saying violent street assaults are very urban and smelly garbage in the city equivalent of durian. good grief.
44
If you like urban hell holes move to one- no need to turn Seattle into your dream city. Try Detroit--it has some affordable properties with the rust and smell and noise some of you sloggers long for.
46
Charles, Charles, Charles. The people complained about excessive noise, ST tested it and confirmed that the noise is excessive. This is empirical, provable fact. ST has agreed to mitigate the noise somehow.
Listen, this issue is between Sound Transit and the neighbors. There is no room for you. Butt out.
Listen, this issue is between Sound Transit and the neighbors. There is no room for you. Butt out.
47
When they built SkyTrain in Vancouver BC they had the same problem for the first year.
Still quieter than those noisy crows, though.
Still quieter than those noisy crows, though.
48
See, this is why I moved to Chicago. Seattle is the most podunk village masquerading as a city I've ever been to.
Also, why does no one call the Seattle Times on their bull shit? They've been at war against urbanism and transit for years now, and you all just put up with it.
You have the newspaper and city you deserve.
Also, why does no one call the Seattle Times on their bull shit? They've been at war against urbanism and transit for years now, and you all just put up with it.
You have the newspaper and city you deserve.
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