Thursday, July 9, 2009
Homo / News What's The Matter With Texas?
Posted by Dan Savage on Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 9:31 AM
Some more damn fine police work in the great state of Texas:
The five men, all gay, were placing their order at the Chico's Tacos restaurant on Montwood when [two of] the men kissed. All five sat down, but the two guards at the restaurant told them to leave. De Leon quoted one of the guards as saying he didn't allow "that faggot stuff" in the restaurant.De Leon said they refused to leave and called police for help. He said an officer arrived about an hour later in response to calls from his group and the guards. As they waited for police, the guards directed other anti-gay slurs at them, he said.... De Leon said the officer told the group it was illegal for two men or two women to kiss in public. The five men, he said, were told they could be cited for homosexual conduct—a law the U.S. Supreme Court ruled unconstitutional in 2003 in Lawrence v. Texas.
That same year, the El Paso City Council approved an ordinance banning discrimination based on sexual orientation by businesses open to the public.
But, hey, the police in El Paso only threw those fags out of the restaurant. They didn't inflict any life-threatening brain injuries, FWPD-style, and there were no trips to the ICU. (Thanks to Slog tipper Ashley.)
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3
"Lisa Graybill, legal director for the ACLU of Texas, said that businesses can ask patrons to leave for lewd conduct"
4
Isn't that the way the liquor laws are enforced in bars here? Restrictions against behaviours that are prohibited for all in bars are only ever enforced in gay bars.
5
With a little organization, this could mark the beginning of a series of humorously non-violent protests.
One giant public make-out session for equality.
One giant public make-out session for equality.
10
Lewd conduct, or rather, public lewdness, is quite specific in the Texas penal code. It is, in effect, sex in public, either intercourse or sodomy. Kissing is not public lewdness. Kissing would also not have violated the homosexual conduct statute if it had not been ruled unconstitutional.
12
Anonymous commenter ... save your babble for when the same restaurant kicks out a man and woman for kissing each other in their establishment. Unless they are doing it equally ... it obviously does not constitute "lewd conduct" dumbass.
13
"De Leon said he and his friends left the restaurant after an officer threatened to issue a citation for "homosexual conduct."
16
Breaking News: Texas is an overwhelmingly conservative redneck hellishly warm wasteland. I speak from many years experience living there.
20
Well, at least these stories get published in media and cause rightful indignation among some people. Not that it will change the attitude of right wingers.
21
Odd thing about Texas - I was there for a wedding a few years ago, and I noticed that every restaurant (that sold liquor) we went to had a cop hanging out in the parking lot. I saw more cops in 3 days than I see in a week in Seattle. They must have been protecting the public from The Gay Peril.
22
@20, these stories have brought a lot of people who are on the fence about this issue over to our side. Or haven't you noticed the massive sea change that's occurred over gay rights over the last two decades?
Ackham @5, for once I agree with you. The first thing I thought was "Time for a kiss-in!"
Ackham @5, for once I agree with you. The first thing I thought was "Time for a kiss-in!"
23
This is just a PSA to say: Austin is surrounded by Texas on all sides, but Austin is not Texas. *The More You Know!*
25
Whiny fucking homophobes can't even handle a kiss. "Don't Mess With Texas" my ass; apparently Texas is easy as fuck to mess with. I just have to kiss a dude and they get all scared n shit.
26
Unfortunately policemen in general are not very educated... They tend to hold the lowest denominator point-of-view...
Poor guys (the guys that were told they were committing an illegal act).
Poor guys (the guys that were told they were committing an illegal act).
30
fucking texas. throw them back to mexico. what has texas given us, that was anything even resembling good, in the last 20 years? fuck 'em. redneck pieces of shit.
31
@ 19 - My thoughts exactly. Shine a big ol' legal spotlight on these mouth-breathers, and get some big money at the end of the whole process.
34
They were in a private establishment and were asked to leave. When they refused, they were trespassing and then ACTUALLY breaking a law.
this all sucks of course, but, um, duuuuurrrr
this all sucks of course, but, um, duuuuurrrr
35
@34, according to your theory, then, a black family could have been asked to leave because they were black and the restaurant would have a right to do that.
It doesn't work quite that way.
It doesn't work quite that way.
36
Do you think these taco guards were riding Segways? What a life, making sure people are not doing gay shit at a taco restaurant.
39
@34 I'm pretty sure the anti-discrimination ordinance mentioned in the article legally trumps the right to kick people out for any reason.
Also, I wonder what would have happened if they'd decided to be cited for "homosexual conduct" instead of leaving. But it's probably just as well that they didn't make the experiment. It's a dangerous one.
Also, I wonder what would have happened if they'd decided to be cited for "homosexual conduct" instead of leaving. But it's probably just as well that they didn't make the experiment. It's a dangerous one.
42
41: This is about the Chico's on Montwood.
Ah, Montwood, Montana, Chico's Tacos, oppressive homophobia...it's my hometown in miniature...
Ah, Montwood, Montana, Chico's Tacos, oppressive homophobia...it's my hometown in miniature...
43
@40 Thank you!!! Seriously.
Now where was the outcry along the lines of "What the hell is wrong with Washington?!?! What good ever came from Washington?!?! They should just secede already and be part of Canada!!!"
There's definitely a glass-house feel to some of the most strident bashing of Texas (or the South in general) for topics like this.
Now where was the outcry along the lines of "What the hell is wrong with Washington?!?! What good ever came from Washington?!?! They should just secede already and be part of Canada!!!"
There's definitely a glass-house feel to some of the most strident bashing of Texas (or the South in general) for topics like this.
44
@43 it's "what's the matter with texas" because this isn't the first recent and significant such issue. there was serious outcry when that happened in wa, though it was but one incident.
46
as a native el pasoan, this story has me feeling absolutely ill. for those of you who are unfamiliar with el paso, this isn't your typical rural, conservative, "redneck" town in texas - el paso is one of the few democratic strongholds in the state and is 80% hispanic. the population of el paso is more than 600,000, and the el paso, tx/ciudad juarez, mexico metro area population exceeds 2,000,000.
although the gay community appears small in el paso, the city saw it's first pride parade earlier this year. this incident is a huge black eye for the city, particularly during a time when it seemed to be adopting a more progressive stance.
although the gay community appears small in el paso, the city saw it's first pride parade earlier this year. this incident is a huge black eye for the city, particularly during a time when it seemed to be adopting a more progressive stance.
48
as a native el pasoan, this story has me feeling absolutely ill. for those of you who are unfamiliar with el paso, this isn't your typical rural, conservative, "redneck" town in texas - el paso is one of the few democratic strongholds in the state and is 80% hispanic. the population of el paso is more than 600,000, and the el paso, tx/ciudad juarez, mexico metro area population exceeds 2,000,000.
although the gay community appears small in el paso, the city saw it's first pride parade earlier this year. this incident is a huge black eye for the city, particularly during a time when it seemed to be adopting a more progressive stance.
although the gay community appears small in el paso, the city saw it's first pride parade earlier this year. this incident is a huge black eye for the city, particularly during a time when it seemed to be adopting a more progressive stance.
49
El Paso is an artsy burgh that has steadily become more progressive. It's not immune to the "security guard with a complex" problem, though. Which sucks.
52
Really, there are two lessons to take from this.
1- Make the cops issue the summons for "illegally being gay" or whatever BS they are trying to sell and/or insist on a copy of whatever paperwork they have to write, so that you have something you can show the relevant media and elected officials and use to get the cop/guard fired.
2 - As the nice ACLU lady pointed out, they have to use the same standard of lewd for everyone. If they want to kick out a gay couple for kissing, they have to kick out every couple that kisses. Hold them to it.
1- Make the cops issue the summons for "illegally being gay" or whatever BS they are trying to sell and/or insist on a copy of whatever paperwork they have to write, so that you have something you can show the relevant media and elected officials and use to get the cop/guard fired.
2 - As the nice ACLU lady pointed out, they have to use the same standard of lewd for everyone. If they want to kick out a gay couple for kissing, they have to kick out every couple that kisses. Hold them to it.
54
53: You're kidding, right? You actually expect Will to make sense? Boy, do you ever have a lot to learn.
56
Hank and Peggy Hill came to an agreement once that anyone who has a layover in the Dallas/Fort Worth airport can claim Texan roots.
57
Mayor of El Paso
#2 Civic Center Plaza, 10th floor of City Hall, El Paso, Texas 79901
Phone: (915)541-4145
Fax: (915)541-4501
E- mail address: mayor@elpasotexas.gov
#2 Civic Center Plaza, 10th floor of City Hall, El Paso, Texas 79901
Phone: (915)541-4145
Fax: (915)541-4501
E- mail address: mayor@elpasotexas.gov
58
ENOUGH. Guys, and Dan, please stop dismissing Texas as a whole. I live in Houston. It's the 4th largest city in the country, it went blue on election day - as, incidentally, did most of the larger cities. I'd apologize for us, except, hey, I didn't do it, none of my friends would ever have done it, and I am SO sick and tired of apologizing for where I live. I was born here, I was raised here, except for a very brief summer stock gig I've lived here all my life. None of this remotely resembles any of my friends, and by the way, I've been fighting every way I know how for gay rights, and yet people think they can sum me up based on a geographical location. STOP. PLEASE.
59
Oh My God! Every story Dan posts, the same fucking jerkwad shows up to constantly bemoan every detail.
What are you? A jilted wannabe lover of Dan's? A fired Stranger employee?
Cripes Sake, Dude. You've seriously wandered into the realm of "Beyond Pathetic." Your personal vendetta has become annoying. The only person you're impressing is "you."
What are you? A jilted wannabe lover of Dan's? A fired Stranger employee?
Cripes Sake, Dude. You've seriously wandered into the realm of "Beyond Pathetic." Your personal vendetta has become annoying. The only person you're impressing is "you."
60
58
Forget it.
You are totally correct but you are spitting in the wind.
Slog is all about prejudice and bigotry and hate.
Texas is the nigger of Slog.
Forget it.
You are totally correct but you are spitting in the wind.
Slog is all about prejudice and bigotry and hate.
Texas is the nigger of Slog.
65
Will @50, there is a lot of overlap between "Texans" and "Dipshits", but the terms are not synonymous. You are not a Texan.
66
I'm glad to see not everyone hates Texans. I hate to see stuff like this story, don't get me wrong...but here's the thing people who haven't spent a lot of time in Texas don't get. First of all, I know some perfectly lovely people in El Paso, just to get that out of the way, but secondly, Texas is HUGE. Taking something that happened in one part of the state and blaming the entire state, or visiting one part of the state and dismissing the state as a whole is like something crappy happening in Salt Lake City and blaming Seattle (Texas north to south is roughly the same distance). Or like someone saying, "I don't like New York City," and when you ask which part they visited, they say, "Charlotte."
68
Another funny thing about Texas is that the Christians don't recognize the Jews and the Jews don't recognize the Christians and the Baptists don't recognize each other in the liquor store.
69
hi y'all i live in el paso and actually helped with the protest at this particular establishment. Chico's tacos needs guards because they are pretty much the only restaurant (meaning dining area also open, not just a drive thru and other than dennys and village inn) in el paso that stays open after the bars shut down. so technically that is why they started using the guards. (drunk people en masse = madness) Unfortunately the security company that they sublet has the most GHETTO guards i have ever seen- is like the cholos opened a company so they had a legitimate reason to hang out. I am all for civil rights and find it very sad that one of the things that made el paso unique has pretty much been handed off to the lowlifes in el paso.
Please do not make the assumption that all el pasoans are this way- we actually have a pretty diverse population here and most people have grown up tolerant of others;is probably a product of being a city of immigrants. Unfortunately as in all other places you do have the religious zealots that use their "values" to spew their hate all over the rest of us. personally i pity the people that are ignorant enough to be so bigoted that they cannot leave others in peace.
btw i am not gay i am just all for being good to everyone. :)
Please do not make the assumption that all el pasoans are this way- we actually have a pretty diverse population here and most people have grown up tolerant of others;is probably a product of being a city of immigrants. Unfortunately as in all other places you do have the religious zealots that use their "values" to spew their hate all over the rest of us. personally i pity the people that are ignorant enough to be so bigoted that they cannot leave others in peace.
btw i am not gay i am just all for being good to everyone. :)
70
Our "activists" in Dallas are idiots:
Fort Worth Star Telegram
http://www.star-telegram.com/804/story/1…
FORT WORTH -- Seven protesters were removed from Tuesday night's City Council meeting after they repeatedly demanded to be moved up on the agenda to speak about last month's police raid at the Rainbow Lounge.
"Hear us now! Hear us now!" five men chanted in a hallway outside City Council chambers. The men, believed to be members of Queer LiberAction, a Dallas-based gay rights group, were led out of the building by city marshals.
Inside the meeting, the group's founder, Blake Wilkinson, repeatedly interrupted Mayor Mike Moncrief.
"We're sick and tired of being put on the last of the list," Wilkinson said.
Moncrief, at one point banging his gavel to try to regain order, attempted to explain the "house rules" to Wilkinson, stating that the agenda would not be changed but that everyone who wished to speak would be heard.
Speakers representing Fairness Fort Worth, which formed after the June 28 raid on the Rainbow Lounge, a gay nightclub, were scheduled to speak before the council later in the meeting.
"Nobody is trying to put anybody last on the list for any reason," Moncrief insisted. "We have every intention of being here as long as you are. We're not going anywhere. Neither is this staff. We're here to listen to everyone who is here to speak to us."
When Wilkinson kept interrupting, Moncrief gave him a choice of either staying and participating in the meeting or being forced to leave. When he did not quiet down, Moncrief ordered city marshals to remove him. Two marshals then escorted him out by the arm.
A second man was also escorted out of the chambers after repeatedly interrupting the meeting.
Some in the audience applauded the men's removal.
Police chief's update
Earlier Tuesday, in the pre-council meeting, Fort Worth Police Chief Jeff Halstead gave the council an update on his investigation of the incident, when officers with the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission and Fort Worth police department conducted an inspection at the Rainbow Lounge and made six arrests, injuring one patron.
The episode has galvanized Fort Worth's gay community and grabbed national headlines.
Some key points from Halstead's presentation:
-- Internal affairs investigators have conducted interviews with 33 attendees at the Rainbow Lounge and expect to complete the investigation in about 30 days.
-- The Fort Worth police department considers the investigation a priority, taking some internal affairs investigators off other cases to focus on the Rainbow Lounge incident, he said.
-- Halstead expects to update the police department's policy regarding bar raids, after taking input from the community.
"I don't want a police officer to say, 'I've never been in that bar. Let's do an investigation,'" Halstead said.
Soon after the bar incident, Halstead said he decided he needed a police officer to serve as a liaison to the city's gay/lesbian/bisexual community, just as the department has people serving in a similar position for other minority communities. Officer Sara Straten, a neighborhood officer in north Fort Worth and 17-year veteran of the department, volunteered for the position.
"I plan to work hard to heal the community as a whole, both the police department and the GLBT community," Straten told the council.
Moncrief and council members praised Halstead, but said they still wanted the U.S. attorney's office to review the police investigation.
"While June 28 was a difficult day, I'm pleased to hear that we are moving forward and not backward," Moncrief told Halstead. "This city is an inclusive city. This is not an exclusive city."
Both Fairness Fort Worth and the ACLU encouraged their supporters to attend the council meeting. Many were expected to speak their mind to the council. John Nelson, an attorney with Fairness Fort Worth, arranged to make a citizen's presentation about the incident and the investigation.
More...
Fort Worth Star Telegram
http://www.star-telegram.com/804/story/1…
FORT WORTH -- Seven protesters were removed from Tuesday night's City Council meeting after they repeatedly demanded to be moved up on the agenda to speak about last month's police raid at the Rainbow Lounge.
"Hear us now! Hear us now!" five men chanted in a hallway outside City Council chambers. The men, believed to be members of Queer LiberAction, a Dallas-based gay rights group, were led out of the building by city marshals.
Inside the meeting, the group's founder, Blake Wilkinson, repeatedly interrupted Mayor Mike Moncrief.
"We're sick and tired of being put on the last of the list," Wilkinson said.
Moncrief, at one point banging his gavel to try to regain order, attempted to explain the "house rules" to Wilkinson, stating that the agenda would not be changed but that everyone who wished to speak would be heard.
Speakers representing Fairness Fort Worth, which formed after the June 28 raid on the Rainbow Lounge, a gay nightclub, were scheduled to speak before the council later in the meeting.
"Nobody is trying to put anybody last on the list for any reason," Moncrief insisted. "We have every intention of being here as long as you are. We're not going anywhere. Neither is this staff. We're here to listen to everyone who is here to speak to us."
When Wilkinson kept interrupting, Moncrief gave him a choice of either staying and participating in the meeting or being forced to leave. When he did not quiet down, Moncrief ordered city marshals to remove him. Two marshals then escorted him out by the arm.
A second man was also escorted out of the chambers after repeatedly interrupting the meeting.
Some in the audience applauded the men's removal.
Police chief's update
Earlier Tuesday, in the pre-council meeting, Fort Worth Police Chief Jeff Halstead gave the council an update on his investigation of the incident, when officers with the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission and Fort Worth police department conducted an inspection at the Rainbow Lounge and made six arrests, injuring one patron.
The episode has galvanized Fort Worth's gay community and grabbed national headlines.
Some key points from Halstead's presentation:
-- Internal affairs investigators have conducted interviews with 33 attendees at the Rainbow Lounge and expect to complete the investigation in about 30 days.
-- The Fort Worth police department considers the investigation a priority, taking some internal affairs investigators off other cases to focus on the Rainbow Lounge incident, he said.
-- Halstead expects to update the police department's policy regarding bar raids, after taking input from the community.
"I don't want a police officer to say, 'I've never been in that bar. Let's do an investigation,'" Halstead said.
Soon after the bar incident, Halstead said he decided he needed a police officer to serve as a liaison to the city's gay/lesbian/bisexual community, just as the department has people serving in a similar position for other minority communities. Officer Sara Straten, a neighborhood officer in north Fort Worth and 17-year veteran of the department, volunteered for the position.
"I plan to work hard to heal the community as a whole, both the police department and the GLBT community," Straten told the council.
Moncrief and council members praised Halstead, but said they still wanted the U.S. attorney's office to review the police investigation.
"While June 28 was a difficult day, I'm pleased to hear that we are moving forward and not backward," Moncrief told Halstead. "This city is an inclusive city. This is not an exclusive city."
Both Fairness Fort Worth and the ACLU encouraged their supporters to attend the council meeting. Many were expected to speak their mind to the council. John Nelson, an attorney with Fairness Fort Worth, arranged to make a citizen's presentation about the incident and the investigation.
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