Wednesday, July 8, 2009
Life The Chicago Manual Gets Testy
Posted by Gillian Anderson on Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 1:20 PM
The Stranger uses The Chicago Manual of Style as a guide for our editing issues, and I enjoy reading its online Q&A section. Although it seems someone has had enough with the questions:
Q. Is there a period after an abbreviation of a country if it is terminating a sentence? “I went to U.K..”A. Seriously, have you ever seen two periods in a row like that in print? If we told you to put two periods, would you do it? Would you set your hair on fire if CMOS said you should?
Share via
2
wow that's like the most annoying webpage on the internet
talk about socially inept grammar nazis...
isn't CMOS depreciated by now?
talk about socially inept grammar nazis...
isn't CMOS depreciated by now?
3
Considering the amount of utterly incorrect, moronic spelling and punctuation I see on the webs every day of my life, nothing would surprise me anymore.
4
What always strikes me in grammar discussions is that the grammar police tend to believe and act as though grammar follows some coherent set of logical rules, such that, were we not merely stupid, we'd understand these basic rules and there'd be no questions.
Alas...English grammar is not always logical in it's construction, and it's the variances, even though they be few, that cause uncertainty in the system.
Alas...English grammar is not always logical in it's construction, and it's the variances, even though they be few, that cause uncertainty in the system.
5
Oh my god, someone really was feeling cranky:
"As you can see here, correct isn’t always pretty. So you aren’t weird; you’re a writer, and one of the things that makes you a writer is that you’re sensitive to ugliness. Once you’re sensitive to clichés, you’ll be all set."
"As you can see here, correct isn’t always pretty. So you aren’t weird; you’re a writer, and one of the things that makes you a writer is that you’re sensitive to ugliness. Once you’re sensitive to clichés, you’ll be all set."
6
I recall reading about this in Harper's a couple of years ago. I LOVE the people who write for that page!
8
Well, Timothy, you're correct - up to a point. However, there are hard and fast rules. For example, "English grammar is not always logical in it's construction" is a grammatically incorrect sentence any way you slice it. "It's" is a contraction of "it is;" I think you were looking for the word "its."
9
I'm terrible with grammar, and still find it all endlessly fascinating. Also, what #4 said.
I always thought you guys used the AP Stylebook. Does CMOS suggest a lowercase "the" in front of band names (or similar), i.e. the Beatles vs. The Beatles?
I always thought you guys used the AP Stylebook. Does CMOS suggest a lowercase "the" in front of band names (or similar), i.e. the Beatles vs. The Beatles?
10
Re: "grammar nazis", "grammar police".
This is a style manual. It's there for writers and editors to turn to when they need to know what's grammatically acceptable--so they can do their jobs.
This is a style manual. It's there for writers and editors to turn to when they need to know what's grammatically acceptable--so they can do their jobs.
11
#8 - that's a great example, because the sentence you noticed the mistake in is a perfect illustration of Timothy's point, being that "it's" apostrophe, if you didn't know better, might imply possessive, which we are taught sometimes warrants one, but in fact is only valid in this case if it's a conjunction.
I feel bad for the grammarians reading this thread that had to suffer through all my commas just now.
I feel bad for the grammarians reading this thread that had to suffer through all my commas just now.
13
"I feel bad for the grammarians reading this thread that had to suffer through all my commas just now. "
Who, not that. Grammarians are people. "...WHO had to suffer..."
Sorry, but it is a grammar thread.
Who, not that. Grammarians are people. "...WHO had to suffer..."
Sorry, but it is a grammar thread.
21
20 - That depends which side of the Atlantic you're on.
If anyone can think of a way I could have ended that sentence without a preposition AND without sounding stupid, I'd be glad to hear it.
If anyone can think of a way I could have ended that sentence without a preposition AND without sounding stupid, I'd be glad to hear it.
22
That's hilarious. I'm subscribed to Bad Questions for Yahoo Answers, and had to double check my feed to make sure this was Slog.
24
Doh! And I even know and understand contractions and apostrophes especially in regards to "its" and "it's." So, fail on my part.
To that end...I'm always stumped by the period and the quotation mark. In the above sentence, did I end it correctly? The period goes inside the quotation, correct? Does it matter if the sentence is entirely in quotations?
To that end...I'm always stumped by the period and the quotation mark. In the above sentence, did I end it correctly? The period goes inside the quotation, correct? Does it matter if the sentence is entirely in quotations?
26
Timothy, you did well. While there are a handful of exceptions (that you'll most likely never encounter), you're pretty safe putting all punctuation inside the quotation marks.
27
@24: I believe it depends on whether you're writing in the US or the UK. In the states we apparently prefer the period (or comma) inside the quote while in the UK they put the "full stop" or comma outside. I recall this has something to do with the US's frontier-era typography being susceptible to the hanging period breaking off if outside the quotes. (Although, now that I've written it, it seems a likely urban legend... I'm sure the grammar mavens at Slog will set me right if so.)
P.S.---BTW, it's D'Oh.
P.S.---BTW, it's D'Oh.
28
Funny, when I'm writing anywhere else I always, always stick to the MLA rule of putting the period or comma inside the quotation marks. But on Slog -- never. It just looks terrible.
29
Emma, that's a new one on me. Having actually set type in my life (just call me Etaoin Shrdlu), I find it pretty hard to believe (the type was all contained within a wooden frame, there's nothing to "break off"), but stranger things than that have happened in the history of the world, so who knows.
30
I rarely comment on Slog posts (there are enough idiot commenters as is), but I felt I must echo the sentiment @16 WINS.
31
Current Wired magazine article, about a recent scientific study, entitled "Nun Brains Show Language Skills Predict Future Alzheimer’s Risk" does not sufficiently differentiate between "idea density" and grammatical skill. I think there's a major difference.
32
#21, all of the following work, and none of them sounds stupid.
"That depends on which side of the Atlantic you are."
"That depends on which side of the Atlantic you live."
"That depends on whether you're American or British."
"That depends on whether you're writing American English or British English."
"That depends on whether you're in the US or UK."
"That depends on which side of the Atlantic you are."
"That depends on which side of the Atlantic you live."
"That depends on whether you're American or British."
"That depends on whether you're writing American English or British English."
"That depends on whether you're in the US or UK."
34
You all know that the snarky answers were meant to be funny, right? That they were written by "The Subversive Copy Editor"? That CMOS calls it "advice and humor"?
35
The pileup of grammar and punctuation errors in this thread warms the cockles of my little spelling-Nazi heart.
Most Commented on Slog
-
Slog Somehow Overlooked... by Dan Savage
-
VivaVulva Viagra! by Dan Savage -
Life and Death in a Recliner in South Carolina by Dan Savage
-
Health at Every Size by Dan Savage
-
"Let his days be few... Let his children be fatherless and his wife a widow." by Dan Savage
-
Feeling Sorry for Carrie Prejean by Dan Savage
-
Last Night's Colbert Report by Dan Savage
-
$2,600,000,000 by Dan Savage
-
All The Best Men Are Taken by Dan Savage
-
I Hate You, Garrison Keillor by Jen Graves
RSS
Facebook
Twitter
Comments (35) RSS