Slog
News & ArtsMonday, July 6, 2009
Chow / Teh Internets No Rest for the Vegan
Posted by David Schmader on Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 2:08 PM
Ambitious L.A. vegans suspect several area restaurants of lying about their veganism, and commence a campaign of after-hours dumpster diving and laboratory tests to determine the truth.
MetaFilter lays out the whole story.
Money shot from vegan blogger Quarrygirl, showing how a dumpster outside an allegedly vegan restaurant clearly contains a bag of buttermilk pancake mix:
Full story here.
2
OH SHIT! You accidently ate what your body was genetically designed to eat! (Buttermilk pancake mix)
5
Lemme ask you something, if you've sworn off pork (or meat) for religious reasons, and you found out that one of your favorite restaurants was "accidentally" adding pork to everything you ate, how would you react?
7
I think vegans/vegetarians/whatever are usually pretty loony, but even I'd be pissed if some restaurant I ate at claimed one thing but practiced another.
Restaurants that proudly proclaim they're vegan but really aren't is consumer fraud.
Restaurants that proudly proclaim they're vegan but really aren't is consumer fraud.
9
Next thing you know they'll be complain that the ingredients were delivered by truck, which uses fossil fuels, which animals had to die to create. Or the packaging was made from petroleum, or even the bike that delivered the ingredients was made with metal that was mined by exploiting human labor and fossil fuels. Or....
Fuck, I just don't understand veganism.
Fuck, I just don't understand veganism.
10
@2,
A significant percentage of humans are lactose intolerant and therefore not genetically designed to eat dairy.
A significant percentage of humans are lactose intolerant and therefore not genetically designed to eat dairy.
12
if I was a vegan and this happened to me I'd be pissed. Although I'd be so weak that I couldn't do anything about it..other than post photos to the interwebs and complain, loudly. I guess what I'm saying is caveat emptor, suckers.
13
Yeah, this pretty much sucks. Restaurants shouldn't fuck around with people's food. Regardless of a person's individual reason (religion, allergies, ethical concerns), if you advertise something as having or not having certain ingredients, you'd better make sure it's right. Especially at something like a vegan restaurant, where you'd expect that more attention would be paid to the ingredients.
18
Another SLOG post that is going to attract lots of comments from the vegan haters. I can hear/read it already-- vegans discovering they've been lied to? what assholes!!
@2: total horseshit, although it's hard to tell if you're being sarcastic. Ever heard of folks who are lactose-intolerant?
Btw, if anyone out there is considering going vegan, prepare to get heaps of disrespect from insecure assholes all around you. Even in "liberal" cities there are lots of angry people out there who will hate the fact that you choose NOT to buy certain foods or products.
@2: total horseshit, although it's hard to tell if you're being sarcastic. Ever heard of folks who are lactose-intolerant?
Btw, if anyone out there is considering going vegan, prepare to get heaps of disrespect from insecure assholes all around you. Even in "liberal" cities there are lots of angry people out there who will hate the fact that you choose NOT to buy certain foods or products.
20
@18 - wah wah wah.
And, btw, if anyone out there is considering going vegan, change your fucking mind lest you become more of an insufferable asshole than you already are.
And, btw, if anyone out there is considering going vegan, change your fucking mind lest you become more of an insufferable asshole than you already are.
21
I am shocked, shocked, that an unregulated industry where anyone can claim to be vegan would do such a thing for profit!
Next thing you know they'll claim the two-thirds of Europe that think they are vegetarians but eat eggs, milk, cheese, and/or seafood aren't real vegetarians.
Next thing you know they'll claim the two-thirds of Europe that think they are vegetarians but eat eggs, milk, cheese, and/or seafood aren't real vegetarians.
23
@18, it's one of the quickest and easiest ways of bringing to light the kinds of weird little hang-ups and insecurities people have.
27
@25, right I'm the one with the issues because I didn't spend who knows how much time dumpster driving to prove the point that a place that I chose to eat at wasn't living up to an unrealistic ideal. Got it.
28
see, the concept of veganism as a dietary preference in friends is awesome.....until you have to accommodate them, or feel guilty for failing to accommodate them, thanks for making me feel like shit. Otherwise it is awesome-town that you guys want to be vegan.
29
Super Jesse @ 9, it appears that there's a lot you don't understand besides veganism. The issue with the report is false advertising. The restaurants say they are vegan, when in fact they are not. Why do so many non-vegans (as seen in the metafilter thread) have a problem with this? Do they somehow feel threatened?
Would you be happy with a restaurant that sold you wild Alaska salmon at a premium, only to learn it was actually farm raised and colored with red dye?
Would you be happy with a restaurant that sold you wild Alaska salmon at a premium, only to learn it was actually farm raised and colored with red dye?
30
I'd be irked, I suppose, but the only way to be 100% sure of what you're putting in your mouth is to make it at home, from scratch. everyone knows this, right? if I found out my Chinese take-out chicken was something else I wouldn't freak out, these are risks that come with living in the world.
31
It'll be days before they can lay claim to the moral highground!
Meat is MURDER!!!
Tasty, tasty MURDER!!!
Meat is MURDER!!!
Tasty, tasty MURDER!!!
32
Urgutha Forka is right -- this is consumer fraud. Consider the outcry if a restaurant insisted it was nut-free, and then served a noodle dish made with peanut oil?
Same problem here (ethically speaking), regardless of what your own personal food choices might be. If a restaurant says they do not serve food that uses animal products, then they shouldn't. Period.
Same problem here (ethically speaking), regardless of what your own personal food choices might be. If a restaurant says they do not serve food that uses animal products, then they shouldn't. Period.
33
Right. Because we all know that restaurants are the most healthful, sanitary places to get your food. Ahem.
34
Have any of you people actually worked in a restaurant kitchen? There are a lot of things I worry about more than some Bisquick in my curry.
35
uh, what kind of restaurant doesn't buy in bulk or commercial sized amounts of food? Those are retail sized packages of pancake mix and what self-respecting vegan restaurant would buy individual sized bags of Trader Joe edamame?
epic fail.
epic fail.
36
the people I know with life threatening food allergies don't put a whole hell of a lot of trust in the low-paying, high-turnover restaurant industry.
39
95% of vegans I have met are unaware of hundreds of ingredients that they eat which are not vegan. Carmine color anybody?
It is a bit of a dick move to have a vegan advertised restaurant which does not live up to its title, but these dumpster diving "investigators" sound like even bigger douchenozzles than freegans. If your dumpster diving ass will be rendered ritually impure by eating casein then take some responsibility for your own arbitrary dietary requirements rather than relying on some trendy restaurant to do it for you.
It is a bit of a dick move to have a vegan advertised restaurant which does not live up to its title, but these dumpster diving "investigators" sound like even bigger douchenozzles than freegans. If your dumpster diving ass will be rendered ritually impure by eating casein then take some responsibility for your own arbitrary dietary requirements rather than relying on some trendy restaurant to do it for you.
40
Ok, so they found some bisquick in the dumpster. Is there any proof that it is used as an ingredient? What if the owners had a little pancake feed for their friends when the restaurant was closed? Who knows. Now if they found bisquick in there on a regular basis...
I've seen reviews by people claiming to have found pieces of bone in food from In the Bowl. The restaurant supposedly claimed that it is rocks that are sometimes found in the rice. Personally I've never noticed anything meaty about their food, except it's god damned finger licking good.
I've seen reviews by people claiming to have found pieces of bone in food from In the Bowl. The restaurant supposedly claimed that it is rocks that are sometimes found in the rice. Personally I've never noticed anything meaty about their food, except it's god damned finger licking good.
42
I saw a report on how these vegans took vegan food from a thai place, tested it and it came back with egg in it (it makes the 'meat' softer). So unless these people do something to actually prove they're serving this to vegans I don't really care.
Also, if I was on a strict diet like that I'd make sure to ask, sure maybe they'd lie but you run that risk regardless. If you're that paranoid I'd suggest never leaving the house, sunlight causes cancer you know.
Also, if I was on a strict diet like that I'd make sure to ask, sure maybe they'd lie but you run that risk regardless. If you're that paranoid I'd suggest never leaving the house, sunlight causes cancer you know.
43
@39 is correct. what are few crushed beetles between friends?
That said, it's not like they found a vat of tallow behind the restaurant from the bacon grease.
The problem arose when people took really good books by scientists which said we should eat lower on the food chain and that true vegetarian diets could be healthier than our typical American diet to mean that being vegan wasn't a "goal" but a "religion" where only the purest of vegetarians could aspire to the orthodox purity.
The harm caused by riding the bus (fossil fuels, created from poor dead animals) is far greater than that caused by a few crushed beetles or animal blood between friends (carmine and cheese). An aspiration is better than a faith.
That said, it's not like they found a vat of tallow behind the restaurant from the bacon grease.
The problem arose when people took really good books by scientists which said we should eat lower on the food chain and that true vegetarian diets could be healthier than our typical American diet to mean that being vegan wasn't a "goal" but a "religion" where only the purest of vegetarians could aspire to the orthodox purity.
The harm caused by riding the bus (fossil fuels, created from poor dead animals) is far greater than that caused by a few crushed beetles or animal blood between friends (carmine and cheese). An aspiration is better than a faith.
44
Wow, hard to believe the general reaction here. Yes, plenty of vegans (and some vegetarians) are self-righteous soapbox standers, but like Urgutha said, this is CONSUMER FRAUD (that is, unless these packages were planted, good point at #35).
If someone has decided to take a personal stand against a corrupt industry with questionable morals, and choose to support businesses that do the same, that is their absolute right. While I can't relate to a personal moral problem with honey and butter, I would be *pissed* if I knew someone was secretly selling me something I'd chosen to patronize them in order to avoid ingesting. That sucks.
If someone has decided to take a personal stand against a corrupt industry with questionable morals, and choose to support businesses that do the same, that is their absolute right. While I can't relate to a personal moral problem with honey and butter, I would be *pissed* if I knew someone was secretly selling me something I'd chosen to patronize them in order to avoid ingesting. That sucks.
46
@5 I would never do such a silly thing.
That being said I can see why they might be annoyed, as the restaurants advertised as such.
That being said I can see why they might be annoyed, as the restaurants advertised as such.
47
You know, carnivores always make a bigger deal about my eating habits than I do. I've been a vegetarian for 20 years, and NOT ONCE have I tried to convince anyone else to come over to the dark side. I don't give a fuck what other people eat, but they're sure fascinated by what I eat. They almost always react with the same phrase, "I don't really eat much meat."
Did I ask? Do I care? Why the defensive reaction?
Did I ask? Do I care? Why the defensive reaction?
49
i wonder why no one has brought up the fact that the restaurant in question was serving shitty bisquick pancakes instead of making their own batter (it's not hard, even to make in mass quantities). culinary fail.
51
It sure was thoughtful of the restaurant employees to place the discarded pancake mix boxes in such a nice composition so the guy would only have to take one picture.
52
Dear everyone: Yes, I really believe that a large percentage of the human genome is devoted to pancakes.
53
Will STILL doesn't understand the difference between "vegetarian" and "vegan", which even dolts like me are pretty clear on.
I loved the description of spying on their margarine, to see if it was the holiest of vegan margarines or not (apparently Earth Balance), when the plain fact is that ANY kind of margarine is FUCKING POISON, and a million times more harmful than butter. As soon as you open the door to processed industrial foods, you're eating garbage, whether it's Earth Balance or not.
I loved the description of spying on their margarine, to see if it was the holiest of vegan margarines or not (apparently Earth Balance), when the plain fact is that ANY kind of margarine is FUCKING POISON, and a million times more harmful than butter. As soon as you open the door to processed industrial foods, you're eating garbage, whether it's Earth Balance or not.
54
You can find "Chef's Review" brand of foodstuffs @ Cash and Carry, that is if you wanna be really classy like that. For bulk it is what it is.
55
@49, pancake batter is probably the oldest processed food, being widespread 200 years ago. Your great-great-grandmother used to buy it the same way she bought flour, out of open barrels in the store. It was shipped out that way right from the mills.
56
@53
I don't think that's true. Margarine used to be all-trans-fat-all-the-time, but it's not all like that anymore. If it's made of healthy oils and not hydrogenated (like Earth Balance). . . *shrug* I mean, I still wouldn't suggest that anybody base their diet on it, but I wouldn't call it poison.
I don't think that's true. Margarine used to be all-trans-fat-all-the-time, but it's not all like that anymore. If it's made of healthy oils and not hydrogenated (like Earth Balance). . . *shrug* I mean, I still wouldn't suggest that anybody base their diet on it, but I wouldn't call it poison.
57
@9
The inability to be perfect doesn't make it meaningless to make better choices.
And I wish people (vegans, especially) would stop acting like veganism is a religion. The difference between your diet being 98% vegan and 100% vegan, as far as your impact as a consumer, is really not worth stressing out about. And any % is better than no %.
That said, restaurants should be serving the food that they advertise, so that sucks.
The inability to be perfect doesn't make it meaningless to make better choices.
And I wish people (vegans, especially) would stop acting like veganism is a religion. The difference between your diet being 98% vegan and 100% vegan, as far as your impact as a consumer, is really not worth stressing out about. And any % is better than no %.
That said, restaurants should be serving the food that they advertise, so that sucks.
58
18. The funny thing is that the insufferable comments are coming not from the vegan haters, but from the vegans. Can't say the rest of us are surprised.
******
I think if we had complete transparency about how all restaurants prepared their food and where their ingredients came from, vegans would be horrified to discover that a sizable portion of the restaurants (if not nearly all of them) they ate at prepared their food with animal products, and that much of what they eat at home is derived somehow from animals. I'm willing to wager one or more ingredient in every dish you've eaten at a restaurant contains the product of an animal.
As mentioned, veganism is an impractical and impossible goal, all at the ironic expense of your health and wallet.
******
I think if we had complete transparency about how all restaurants prepared their food and where their ingredients came from, vegans would be horrified to discover that a sizable portion of the restaurants (if not nearly all of them) they ate at prepared their food with animal products, and that much of what they eat at home is derived somehow from animals. I'm willing to wager one or more ingredient in every dish you've eaten at a restaurant contains the product of an animal.
As mentioned, veganism is an impractical and impossible goal, all at the ironic expense of your health and wallet.
59
The earliest processed food is beer, Fnarf.
If you're going to whine about how vegans are the true faith, realize nobody achieves the level they claim to be at.
But it would be nice if the FDA could actually come up with a real actual vegan standard in terms of advertising (or would that be FEC or FCC ...)
If you're going to whine about how vegans are the true faith, realize nobody achieves the level they claim to be at.
But it would be nice if the FDA could actually come up with a real actual vegan standard in terms of advertising (or would that be FEC or FCC ...)
60
I use vegan threads like this one, and Charles Mudede posts, to pick which users I want to block. It's like a honey pot that attracts people with nothing original to say.
61
Slog's consistent anti-vegetarianism, as reflected in its posts and its regular commenters, is rather weird. That said, thanks Mr. Schmader for being fairly neutral with this particular post, though of course it provides the vehicle for the usual suspects to bellow and thump their powerfully superior omnivore chests.
62
Hey, some f**ker slipped salad greens onto my plate of foie gras last week so I guess we're equal.
65
God forbid people deserve to know what is in the food they eat. Rather than "freaking out" as someone above mentioned, all these consumers are asking for is some pretty reasonable accountability.
I'm all for poking fun but people actually spouting hate on slog against vegans are acting like shitheads and need a smackdown.
Anyhoo... if anyone read the damn link, the pancake batter boxes in the dumpster just raised their suspicions... they actually tested items from 17 "vegan" restaurants:
http://www.quarrygirl.com/2009/06/28/und…
I'm all for poking fun but people actually spouting hate on slog against vegans are acting like shitheads and need a smackdown.
Anyhoo... if anyone read the damn link, the pancake batter boxes in the dumpster just raised their suspicions... they actually tested items from 17 "vegan" restaurants:
http://www.quarrygirl.com/2009/06/28/und…
66
Now this is how you make fun of vegans:
"Passive-Aggressive Vegan Grocery Cashier:
A Day in the Life."
http://www.mcsweeneys.net/2005/4/18gray.…
"Passive-Aggressive Vegan Grocery Cashier:
A Day in the Life."
http://www.mcsweeneys.net/2005/4/18gray.…
67
Restaurants ought to live up to their claims, but do vegan restaurants kill their rodent and insect friends when the little critters come to eat at said establishments? Is it hypocritical to say that rats and roaches don't count when it comes to not killing animals for the sake of food? (Then there is the rodent and insect extermination at every level of the food handling process from the growing, and harvesting (which also kills any animals who happened to be in the fields that day) on down, but oh, we can just pretend that animals don't die for the sake of a vegan diet, right?)
68
Rob @ 67,
You and others (including several Slog writers) consistently conflate moral absolutism with veganism. It's tired, and it's not a solid argument, even though some over-enthusiastic vegans may spout that sort of rhetoric. Your argument is better suited against particular individuals or against that particular rhetorical position than it is against the actual impact of veganism as a dietary choice on the reduction of animal suffering and as a positive choice for our environment.
Making conscious choices to minimize animal suffering does not require some sort of absolute compliance with the straw man you and other big bad Slog commenters like to set up. It is undeniable that a vegan diet reduces animal death and suffering, even if in practice veganism can never be some sort of total life-affirming and life-protecting utopia that you demand of it, where rats and roaches sing Kumbayah with humans.
There appears to be a need of certain omnivores to attack the stereotypical "vegan" -- thrown around as an epithet on Slog and signifying a cultish, simultaneously naive and puritanical, overbearing person -- in order to assuage either a certain undefinable guilt or to blunt the wealth of pesky facts about industrial meat production that might make the taste of your favorite hamburger a little less pure.
You and others (including several Slog writers) consistently conflate moral absolutism with veganism. It's tired, and it's not a solid argument, even though some over-enthusiastic vegans may spout that sort of rhetoric. Your argument is better suited against particular individuals or against that particular rhetorical position than it is against the actual impact of veganism as a dietary choice on the reduction of animal suffering and as a positive choice for our environment.
Making conscious choices to minimize animal suffering does not require some sort of absolute compliance with the straw man you and other big bad Slog commenters like to set up. It is undeniable that a vegan diet reduces animal death and suffering, even if in practice veganism can never be some sort of total life-affirming and life-protecting utopia that you demand of it, where rats and roaches sing Kumbayah with humans.
There appears to be a need of certain omnivores to attack the stereotypical "vegan" -- thrown around as an epithet on Slog and signifying a cultish, simultaneously naive and puritanical, overbearing person -- in order to assuage either a certain undefinable guilt or to blunt the wealth of pesky facts about industrial meat production that might make the taste of your favorite hamburger a little less pure.
69
68, So in other words, you're saying it is okay to kill animals only under the conditions and reasons that you decide, (in this case, if you think they are icky, and they are near your meatless, guiltless because rats and roaches don't count as worthy animals, food.) and how dare anyone else draw the line in a different place.
71
70, Perhaps, 68 could give a list of animals, and when it's okay, or not okay to kill them?
So far we've got that it's okay to kill rats, roaches, and other such creatures in the growing, harvesting, storage, and preparation of food. Exactly where is the moral line drawn?
So far we've got that it's okay to kill rats, roaches, and other such creatures in the growing, harvesting, storage, and preparation of food. Exactly where is the moral line drawn?
74
@68 --> you totally rock!
It's about personal choices... people make impacts and choices where they can and are comfortable around issues they care about. Some people choose to not have cars and to walk/bike... whatever. As far as Rob in Baltimore, I'll "draw the line" wherever the fuck I want to when it comes to what I want to eat as do you or anyone else. That "moral line" you are looking for isn't the same for everyone, even among vegetarians, vegans, macrobiotic diets, etc. I think you are confusing the lot of veg-heads with PETA-fanatacism and that's just not the case. For a lot of us, it is a spiritual choice, too and that evolves over the course of a person's lifetime.
It's about personal choices... people make impacts and choices where they can and are comfortable around issues they care about. Some people choose to not have cars and to walk/bike... whatever. As far as Rob in Baltimore, I'll "draw the line" wherever the fuck I want to when it comes to what I want to eat as do you or anyone else. That "moral line" you are looking for isn't the same for everyone, even among vegetarians, vegans, macrobiotic diets, etc. I think you are confusing the lot of veg-heads with PETA-fanatacism and that's just not the case. For a lot of us, it is a spiritual choice, too and that evolves over the course of a person's lifetime.
75
ATTN
Rob in Baltimore and Matt in Denver:
why don't you two losers comment on your respective cities or do you suck that much you feel that you need to come to another towns blog to vent your bullshit?
Hey gang! let's all go into the Des Moines, Iowa papers blog tomorrow and spout our beliefs!
Rob in Baltimore and Matt in Denver:
why don't you two losers comment on your respective cities or do you suck that much you feel that you need to come to another towns blog to vent your bullshit?
Hey gang! let's all go into the Des Moines, Iowa papers blog tomorrow and spout our beliefs!
76
@73: there's an app for that, too!?
@74: Let's not generalize. I'm not a vegan, but I'm a 20-year ovo-lacto-vegetarian for non-spiritual reasons. Namely, it was due to something I learned in my first college ecology class: more kilocalories per hectare. (only 10% of energy is transferred across each trophic level).
I'm not at all sentimental about people killing pestilential and overpopulated critters (e.g., deer and Canada geese), especially if their prey lands on their dinner table.
@74: Let's not generalize. I'm not a vegan, but I'm a 20-year ovo-lacto-vegetarian for non-spiritual reasons. Namely, it was due to something I learned in my first college ecology class: more kilocalories per hectare. (only 10% of energy is transferred across each trophic level).
I'm not at all sentimental about people killing pestilential and overpopulated critters (e.g., deer and Canada geese), especially if their prey lands on their dinner table.
77
It's fraud & deserves to be investigated. Let's take something most of us find icky - I dunno, toxic chemicals, calf brains, used dentures, something gross. Imagine someplace you went to eat was slipping that into your food. You'd be pissed. Not all people who are vegan/vegetarian are PETA members or are doing it for the anti-cruelty angle: some are doing it for health reasons or religion.
Either way - lay off the vegans; are we all supposed to never eat out?
One vegan mentioned above, & I have found this to be true, that meat eaters give vegan/vegetarians are far harder time than vice versa - though I've also been on the receiving end of judgmental looks from vegetarian friends who heard I've gone back to the omnivore side. (I used to be a vegetarian - not vegan, I'm not that disciplined). I decided I missed meat, & that what I had a problem with was the entirety of the food production system.
So I eat meat now, but it is 100% local meat: raised at a farm a half-hour away, no chemicals, no meanness to the cows, chickens & pigs. It's pricier, so I eat less of it overall, but grocery store meat doesn't even taste like food to me anymore. I know the names of my farmers, how they treat their animals & what they feed them. Plus a bonus: there's local produce, bread & dairy.
Great: now I'm hungry...for Bisquick corn fritters.
Either way - lay off the vegans; are we all supposed to never eat out?
One vegan mentioned above, & I have found this to be true, that meat eaters give vegan/vegetarians are far harder time than vice versa - though I've also been on the receiving end of judgmental looks from vegetarian friends who heard I've gone back to the omnivore side. (I used to be a vegetarian - not vegan, I'm not that disciplined). I decided I missed meat, & that what I had a problem with was the entirety of the food production system.
So I eat meat now, but it is 100% local meat: raised at a farm a half-hour away, no chemicals, no meanness to the cows, chickens & pigs. It's pricier, so I eat less of it overall, but grocery store meat doesn't even taste like food to me anymore. I know the names of my farmers, how they treat their animals & what they feed them. Plus a bonus: there's local produce, bread & dairy.
Great: now I'm hungry...for Bisquick corn fritters.
79
goddamn. the only person more annoying than the "self-righteous vegan" is the "self-righteous carnivore."
next time anything vegan related pops up, do us all a favor and ignore it. don't read it, don't think about it, don't talk about it, don't post your stupid thoughts. so you eat meat and hate your idea of what a vegan is? great!
next time anything vegan related pops up, do us all a favor and ignore it. don't read it, don't think about it, don't talk about it, don't post your stupid thoughts. so you eat meat and hate your idea of what a vegan is? great!
80
meat is murder
dairy is rape
do i have to spell it out?
V E G A N
that's how you spell LIBERATION!
dairy is rape
do i have to spell it out?
V E G A N
that's how you spell LIBERATION!
82
@ 80 I freakin' love you!
Being vegan is the greatest! My actions are more closely aligned with my values!
Ummm, helllloooo out there? Where are all my "self righteous vegans" at???!
Being vegan is the greatest! My actions are more closely aligned with my values!
Ummm, helllloooo out there? Where are all my "self righteous vegans" at???!
83
@78
I don't really think that's a fair characterization. It's not like people don't eat animal products the way some people don't eat pickles. It's an ethical choice -- with a lot of personal, social, environmental, and political implications -- not a "mere" dietary choice, which is why people on both sides get emotional about it.
Vegans: "Why do you have to be such an asshole to me just because I'm trying to do the right thing, and might even be willing to speak out about it?"
Everyone Else: "Because you claiming it's the right thing equals a claim that I'm doing the wrong thing, and I either disagree, or don't want to think about it!"
Aaaaaaand, there we have the recipe for 100+ comments on a Slog post. And an identical thread every few weeks until the END OF TIME.
It's awesome.
I don't really think that's a fair characterization. It's not like people don't eat animal products the way some people don't eat pickles. It's an ethical choice -- with a lot of personal, social, environmental, and political implications -- not a "mere" dietary choice, which is why people on both sides get emotional about it.
Vegans: "Why do you have to be such an asshole to me just because I'm trying to do the right thing, and might even be willing to speak out about it?"
Everyone Else: "Because you claiming it's the right thing equals a claim that I'm doing the wrong thing, and I either disagree, or don't want to think about it!"
Aaaaaaand, there we have the recipe for 100+ comments on a Slog post. And an identical thread every few weeks until the END OF TIME.
It's awesome.
84
Violet #83: I intentionally avoid threads like these sometimes (because I can't shut up), but that's a super good summary.
85
I can see the opinion that it is more than a dietary choice. I disagree with that opinion. If seems some vegans not only wish to control how others eat they want to control the terms of the debate. They do not. I will not grant it is any more than a dietary choice. It is not. They are free to see it as more. I am free not to. Words do have power and vegans do not control them.
Veganism is a dietary choice.
Veganism is a dietary choice.
86
" that meat eaters give vegan/vegetarians are far harder time than vice versa "
Really? I've never seen meat eaters protesting outside a vegan restaurant. Thanks, another 'vegans are unaggressive pacifists' myth.
Really? I've never seen meat eaters protesting outside a vegan restaurant. Thanks, another 'vegans are unaggressive pacifists' myth.
87
"So I eat meat now, but it is 100% local meat: raised at a farm a half-hour away, no chemicals, no meanness to the cows, chickens & pigs."
You're still a murderer according to most 'meat is murder' vegans.
You're still a murderer according to most 'meat is murder' vegans.
88
Vegans sound like bat sh*t crazy ex-homosexuals. Another group of nutters denying their evolutionary nature.
89
As a vegetarian (I can't stay away from cheese, or I'd be vegan), I wholeheartedly support these vegans and any others around the country that want to conduct their own investigations. After eating 2 bites of a "meat-free" tofu scramble and realizing that there was chicken in it, I was sick for 2 days with gut wrenching pain (from animal protein overload). After reporting it to the manager (this was at the Broadway Grill), she told me that was impossible, though I had speared an obvious piece of chicken and was waving it at her at that point, and she smiled in that way that says "you're wasting my time, and I don't really care that we put chicken in your vegetarian meal."
Long story short, restaurants lie, and people make mistakes. Don't eat at restaurants you can't trust, and if you want to be able to trust them, dive in their dumpsters.
Long story short, restaurants lie, and people make mistakes. Don't eat at restaurants you can't trust, and if you want to be able to trust them, dive in their dumpsters.
90
Wow, just reading all these comments of unsolicited anger towards people that make a conscious choice which doesn't really actually effect anyone but themselves. And all I can say is that you people are assholes.
Sure, a lot of vegans/vegetarians are aggressive in their beliefs in the same ways that religious nut bags are. I mean, fuck, I wish them Christians would go dumpster diving to see that they too have been being lied to this whole time! BUT ... not everyone is like that ... and these particular people aren't screaming in your faces ... they are making legitimate complaints about a place that advertised one thing and gave them another.
Get over yourselves you righteous bastards.
What ever happened to being opened minded ... fuck if this restaurant was feeding gay boys pussy and calling it cock you'd all be up in arms!
Sure, a lot of vegans/vegetarians are aggressive in their beliefs in the same ways that religious nut bags are. I mean, fuck, I wish them Christians would go dumpster diving to see that they too have been being lied to this whole time! BUT ... not everyone is like that ... and these particular people aren't screaming in your faces ... they are making legitimate complaints about a place that advertised one thing and gave them another.
Get over yourselves you righteous bastards.
What ever happened to being opened minded ... fuck if this restaurant was feeding gay boys pussy and calling it cock you'd all be up in arms!
91
83. As for veganism being an ethical choice... typically it's out of some humanitarian belief that they're saving animals by not eating them.
And yet, as we learned years ago, eating vegetables also kills animals. We just don't eat those corpses.
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/…
Really, vegans in this thread are getting angrier about the subject than is logically necessary... but the anger comes from their idealist self-image being challenged by actual reality, and when that self-image is criticized, they will obviously bristle.
Eat whatever you want. But your diet is not a statement. I eat a lot of brown rice and vegetables, and have cut way down on my fat/additive consumption. But I'm no going to make a big deal about it, because it's just a personal choice. I'll extol the virtues of a healthier diet, but I'm not going to cop an attitude about people eating what I won't eat.
And yet, as we learned years ago, eating vegetables also kills animals. We just don't eat those corpses.
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/…
Really, vegans in this thread are getting angrier about the subject than is logically necessary... but the anger comes from their idealist self-image being challenged by actual reality, and when that self-image is criticized, they will obviously bristle.
Eat whatever you want. But your diet is not a statement. I eat a lot of brown rice and vegetables, and have cut way down on my fat/additive consumption. But I'm no going to make a big deal about it, because it's just a personal choice. I'll extol the virtues of a healthier diet, but I'm not going to cop an attitude about people eating what I won't eat.
92
Ah Gomez, "logically"... that's the word my dad resorted to every time he got emotional about losing an argument.
94
@ 86: Merely reporting what I have observed. I have friends who are vegan, friends who are vegetarian & friends that are carnivores. When we go out ot eat as a big group, the meat-eaters usually (affectionately) bust the balls of the veggie-eaters. I didn't say ALL vegetarians were pacifists nor all meat-eaters aggressive schmucks.
Also, don't care what vegans think of me, just, I notice reactions.
Oh yeah, sorry if the local meat thing came off preachy. It's a new thing for me & I tend to get worked up about it. Forget the moral things about humane care, less environmental harm from travel..etc..it tastes better.
Also, don't care what vegans think of me, just, I notice reactions.
Oh yeah, sorry if the local meat thing came off preachy. It's a new thing for me & I tend to get worked up about it. Forget the moral things about humane care, less environmental harm from travel..etc..it tastes better.
96
Hey, I'd give ex-homosexuals sh*t too. Anyone who denies their evolutionary nature needs their heads examined.
97
Typical vegan hatred by Slog.
Veganism is avoiding animal products/exploitation AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. Nobody is 100%, but that's no excuse to be an apathetic greedy slave to filling your pie hole, putting your pleasure above the needless suffering of other beings. So you can't avoid all death and harm? So, I guess you should just not bother? Lame.
You are not an animal lover if you aren't vegan. Petting one animal and eating another one is completely confused.
Not eating, wearing animal products is the most direct thing a person can do for animals along with promoting veganism to others. People that say going vegan doesn't change anything are simply wrong.
Veganism is a choice....the ethical one. Yes, you have the choice to eat/wear what you want...but why the fuck would you choose to be lame and support cruelty? Because you are a selfish apathetic speciesist asshole?
Veganism isn't extremist....supporting exploitation and killing of our fellow animals is extreme.
Wake up you fucking zombies.
Veganism is avoiding animal products/exploitation AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. Nobody is 100%, but that's no excuse to be an apathetic greedy slave to filling your pie hole, putting your pleasure above the needless suffering of other beings. So you can't avoid all death and harm? So, I guess you should just not bother? Lame.
You are not an animal lover if you aren't vegan. Petting one animal and eating another one is completely confused.
Not eating, wearing animal products is the most direct thing a person can do for animals along with promoting veganism to others. People that say going vegan doesn't change anything are simply wrong.
Veganism is a choice....the ethical one. Yes, you have the choice to eat/wear what you want...but why the fuck would you choose to be lame and support cruelty? Because you are a selfish apathetic speciesist asshole?
Veganism isn't extremist....supporting exploitation and killing of our fellow animals is extreme.
Wake up you fucking zombies.
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