Thursday, July 2, 2009
News There's More Than One Way To Get Gays Out of the Military
Posted by Dan Savage on Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 7:55 AM
You can kick 'em out—like Obama is doing to Dan Choi—or you can kill 'em.
The body of Seaman August Provost of Houston, Texas, was discovered about 3:30 a.m. on the western edge of the base, said Doug Sayers, a spokesman for Navy Region Southwest.... The death has local gay activists calling for a formal investigation into whether Provost was slain because of his sexual orientation.“While 'Don't ask, Don't tell' is in place, anybody in the military who is a homosexual has no place to go to get assistance or counseling,” said Ben Gomez of Servicemembers Legal Defense Network, an advocacy group for gays in the military.
Provost's boyfriend, Kaether Cordero, said yesterday that Provost was openly gay but kept his private life quiet for the most part.... Provost had recently complained to his family that someone was harassing and bothering him, and they advised him to tell his supervisor, said his sister, Akalia.
Share via
1
Dan, if you scream 'gay bashing' every time something happens to a gay before any facts are known you will sound like Al Sharpton, and carry about as much credibility.
2
@1 Fuck you. This is what I have said before. Violence cannot be tolerated. Obama is afraid of the old guard and right wing hardliners in the military. But violence must not be allowed.
3
You know what's funny, if McCain was President everyone on the left would be screaming that McCain be held accountable for this. I wonder if anyone will do that to Obama? Frankly, I'm not holding my breath.
4
What a week to be gay in Texas, huh?
A big majorly catholic and hispanic city puts their mayor in their pride parade, and then the state does a 180 and Fort Worth police raid a bar and a Seaman is killed for being gay.
One step forward, two gigantic steps back.
A big majorly catholic and hispanic city puts their mayor in their pride parade, and then the state does a 180 and Fort Worth police raid a bar and a Seaman is killed for being gay.
One step forward, two gigantic steps back.
5
The story linked to got heavily edited overnight. It originally started out like this:
In Camp Pendleton north of Oceanside, a death investigation is under way after a sailor was found dead in a guard shack in a case that has overtones of being a hate crime.
Activists in the gay community citing sources familiar with the death of August Provost, 29, of Houston, Texas, say the man was killed during an argument with another sailor over sexual orientation.
In Camp Pendleton north of Oceanside, a death investigation is under way after a sailor was found dead in a guard shack in a case that has overtones of being a hate crime.
Activists in the gay community citing sources familiar with the death of August Provost, 29, of Houston, Texas, say the man was killed during an argument with another sailor over sexual orientation.
6
The military was integrated when the resistance to doing so was much higher than the resistance now to repealing DADT. How much longer will things like this be permitted to happen i the military? And to think I cried when Obama wa elected because he mentioned the LGBT community in his speech - I didn't realize talk was all he was going to do.
7
Thanks to DADT, this soldier could not report his harasser to military leadership. DADT clearly corrupts the entire military, not just the soldiers who are forced to lie about themselves or their fellows.
It perverts the entire chain of command. Soldiers who have to lie. Their commanders who have to pretend not to know. And of course, the utter freedom with which this harasser/murderer gets to operate because no one must say anything.
It perverts the entire chain of command. Soldiers who have to lie. Their commanders who have to pretend not to know. And of course, the utter freedom with which this harasser/murderer gets to operate because no one must say anything.
8
The story does mention that the killing took place on a base in Calif.
@5: Thanks for adding back some of the original details. The article has been greatly sanitized/edited.
My heart goes out to his partner and to the family of the victim.
@5: Thanks for adding back some of the original details. The article has been greatly sanitized/edited.
My heart goes out to his partner and to the family of the victim.
9
@2
Fuck You.
Waiting for some facts does not betray "The Cause", asshole.
No one is suggesting that violence be tolerated.
Perhaps we should grab some rope and string up some handy servicemen?
Anyone will do...
Feel better now?
Fuck You.
Waiting for some facts does not betray "The Cause", asshole.
No one is suggesting that violence be tolerated.
Perhaps we should grab some rope and string up some handy servicemen?
Anyone will do...
Feel better now?
10
This is the perfect chance for Obama to speak loudly and clearly as commander-in-chief and tell the military that this killing is totally unacceptable in straightforward and clear way. Any minute...now ...now! ...Now! *sigh*
11
This is one of the reasons I left the military after 8 years of service. Once I had finally come to accept my orientation, I knew that I would be vulnerable if I stayed in. Vulnerable to harassment, vulnerable to blackmail, vulnerable to attack. All with no one to talk to and no one to complain to. DADT forces gay servicemembers into a very tight closet with no way out except death or discharge.
This is a disgrace.
This is a disgrace.
13
My condolences to his boyfriend, friends, and family. Don't Ask, Don't Tell prevented him from communicating the harrassment, and that makes the military just as guilty for his death as the person who ended his life.
15
I vividly remember that, during the original DADT hearings, either a witness in favor or a lawmaker with a military background (I believe with a son on active duty) saying, essentially, our boys can't be trusted not to frag an openly gay comrades, and that was a reason to keep them out. The gay person's well being was not really even the point.
I was horrified. We would rather keep gays out than address what was, if true, an evil disease in the military? With the lip service it pays to discipline, loyalty, and camaraderie, these acts should constitute even more egregious hate crimes in the military than in civilian life. Yet the military would rather maintain a Don't Ask Don't Tell policy for murderers and lynchers.
I was horrified. We would rather keep gays out than address what was, if true, an evil disease in the military? With the lip service it pays to discipline, loyalty, and camaraderie, these acts should constitute even more egregious hate crimes in the military than in civilian life. Yet the military would rather maintain a Don't Ask Don't Tell policy for murderers and lynchers.
16
Well, this just goes to show that gays are disruptive to morale and unit cohesion, amiright?
But in all seriousness, why is our military chock full of losers who are so sensitive about their fragile masculinity that the mere presence of an openly gay man sends them into a fit of rage and panic? It's fucking pathetic.
But in all seriousness, why is our military chock full of losers who are so sensitive about their fragile masculinity that the mere presence of an openly gay man sends them into a fit of rage and panic? It's fucking pathetic.
17
@16 I'm chuckling when I tell you to go fuck yourself.
You're spouting off because you're angry, but you're insulting a lot of good people.
You know shit about the military.
You should observe this discussion more than you should participate in it.
You're spouting off because you're angry, but you're insulting a lot of good people.
You know shit about the military.
You should observe this discussion more than you should participate in it.
18
16
yeah
pathetic
we should kick those losers out.
and let masculine Seattle hipsters like yourself defend us.
yeah
pathetic
we should kick those losers out.
and let masculine Seattle hipsters like yourself defend us.
20
There's nothing keeping women from serving in the military and yet complaints of harassment and rape are routinely ignored. You are delusional if you think the repeal of DADT will make the military give a shit about gay bashing.
Thanks to DADT, this soldier could not report his harasser to military leadership.
There's nothing keeping women from serving in the military and yet complaints of harassment and rape are routinely ignored. You are delusional if you think the repeal of DADT will make the military give a shit about gay bashing.
21
@13 Good afternoon, Kim and all.
This story makes me so furious and speechless. Mostly for obvious reasons and for some unobvious ones.
This story makes me so furious and speechless. Mostly for obvious reasons and for some unobvious ones.
22
Having been on a military base recently, i have to say that this doesn't surprise me. Just imagine an even more depressing, ass-backwards, and rednecky version of wal-mart.
24
I'm surprised Loveschild hasn't been on yet to point out that we don't know the fact, and generally pooh-pooh the idea that anyone is ever targeted for violence or worse because of their sexual orientation.
25
First, fuck you, SLOG, for making me post my comment in this asinine pop-up window, without usual controls, etc., that hangs and then crashes, leaving me unable to recover my post. Clicking Post Comment should open in the current fucking window. This isn't fucking AOL. And the login info ought to be right there. Why a Preview Comment button that must be pressed to refresh and start all over, potentially failing in some other way again. Not happy til the chance of losing your work is 10% or above?
I'll post my on topic comment below. I hope I remember my exact phrasing from before. It was grammatically correct, typo free, and beautiful.
I'll post my on topic comment below. I hope I remember my exact phrasing from before. It was grammatically correct, typo free, and beautiful.
26
A correction to my earlier post (15): The witness was speaking about his son, so clearly he was genuinely concerned about his well-being. But that doesn't make the argument any less valid. No doubt African Americans faced the same dangers after integration and for a long time after. That's no reason to discriminate against a group of people, and discrimination is what this is. Hard to believe, but some people wish dearly to be able to serve their country in the armed forces.
http://dont.stanford.edu/hearings/Hearin…
Statement of Col. Frederick C. Peck, USMC
(116) I spent 27 years of my life in the military, and I
know what it would be like for him if he went in. And it
would be hell. And if we went into combat..., he would
be at grave risk if he were to follow in my footsteps as
an infantry platoon leader or a company commander. I
would be very fearful that his life would be in jeopardy
from his own troops.
And I am not saying that that is right, or wrong, or
whatever. I am telling you that is the way it is. You
get into war, the first casualty is truth; the second is
the value of human life. Fratricide is something that
exists out there, and there are people who would put my
son's life at risk in our own Armed Forces. That is just
one reason. That is a very important reason, for me,
speaking personally about my own son, to counsel him not
to go in the military. 602
http://dont.stanford.edu/hearings/Hearin…
Statement of Col. Frederick C. Peck, USMC
(116) I spent 27 years of my life in the military, and I
know what it would be like for him if he went in. And it
would be hell. And if we went into combat..., he would
be at grave risk if he were to follow in my footsteps as
an infantry platoon leader or a company commander. I
would be very fearful that his life would be in jeopardy
from his own troops.
And I am not saying that that is right, or wrong, or
whatever. I am telling you that is the way it is. You
get into war, the first casualty is truth; the second is
the value of human life. Fratricide is something that
exists out there, and there are people who would put my
son's life at risk in our own Armed Forces. That is just
one reason. That is a very important reason, for me,
speaking personally about my own son, to counsel him not
to go in the military. 602
27
Correction to my previous post: "any less valid should" be "any more valid." Why not use some of this Javascript wizardry to allow us to edit previous posts?
28
Whether or not the ability to report the harasser in the absence of DADT would have saved his life is not the issue.
The existence of DADT says that homosexuals are so reprehensible that we can only allow them to serve if they pretend to be something they aren't. That's validation for the warped individual who would kill someone for their sexual orientation. DADT is an accomplice.
The existence of DADT says that homosexuals are so reprehensible that we can only allow them to serve if they pretend to be something they aren't. That's validation for the warped individual who would kill someone for their sexual orientation. DADT is an accomplice.
29
Silence=Death. The whole idea of DADT is killing people, because to ask for help officially is to lose your job, so the attackers get more and more brazen. The military policy of covering up sexual assaults and blaming the victim is killing women too, for the same reason; to complain about sexual assault is to risk being brought up on charges yourself. Both women and gays are suffering in silence. Maybe when they start going armed and shooting their attackers, notice will be paid.
The military brass has to make stopping this shit a priority. Until they take it seriously and stop covering it up, it will not stop.
The military brass has to make stopping this shit a priority. Until they take it seriously and stop covering it up, it will not stop.
30
I'm shocked this happened in the Navy, where you can sail the seven seas and put your mind at ease, learn science and technology on land or on the sea. I thought the navy was the original home of queens for a day.
This sucks, but it's also not surprising. Just as afraid as we are that Obama won't respect his promises to lift DADT, there are plenty of homophobes that are afraid he will. While Bush was in office these guys slept soundly knowing their own orientation remained intact and secure, but now we have a raging liberal in office (relatively speaking), we're going to see more violence and vigilantism.
Somehow I get the feeling that what's scarier for these guys than a gay who'll bugger them in the shower is a gay who won't.
This sucks, but it's also not surprising. Just as afraid as we are that Obama won't respect his promises to lift DADT, there are plenty of homophobes that are afraid he will. While Bush was in office these guys slept soundly knowing their own orientation remained intact and secure, but now we have a raging liberal in office (relatively speaking), we're going to see more violence and vigilantism.
Somehow I get the feeling that what's scarier for these guys than a gay who'll bugger them in the shower is a gay who won't.
32
To whomever: We, the People, of this once great Nation Under God, now have had ample opportunity to regret the tragedy afflicted on us that black day nearly sixty years ago, when we, as a free citizenry of mostly Christian people, allowed one atheist and a godless Supreme Court to deny us our God in OUR PUBLIC FORUM and to cram a National Religion of Atheism down our collective throats — without coming straight back and demanding of our equally godless, corrupt Congressmen to bring them all before the Senate for the trial if impeachment. Not only did they legislate this fallacious cause from the highest federal bench, they have ruthlessly exploited it and enforced it ever since. Unless we, the people, start excercising our rights to vote upon the public servantry once again, taking back that sacred right to control through the poll, and voting these slime-bag politicians, these lying, rectum-sucking-then spewing minions of Satan, out of office, and forcing them to start impeaching the federal judges who worship atheistic principles from their benches; defrocking the corrupted politicians who entreat with them through the recall and the overwhelming defeat at the polls; and cleaning out the bloated godless bureaucracies of the soiled, tenured minions of both, we are then doomed as an honorable nation in the eyes of God. One cannot condone atheism in any form, no, not ANY abomination in any form, before God's face and expect God's mercy and continued blessings. It is time, by whatever means, to begin to rid our government, in all of its branches, administrative, legislative, and judicial, of the abominable filth that is dragging this country into the evils of communism, Liberal socialism, and atheism, homosexualty, fetus slaughter, and countless otherabominations before God's very face. That includes doing a cleaning house on the the military services.
We do not need abominations in the face of God so-called protecting us from the other minions of Satan we face as a FREE people. As in all things, every red-blooded American who is devoted to the freedoms and liberty our swiftly eroding Constitution once vigorously protected for, us from the deprivations of the ungodly so well, though is now crumbling swiftly under the attacks of the Godless, the abominable, and the Satanic who hold us by the throats today has a choice to make; roll over and die in the face of the evil politicians, judges, coalitionized abominations and all of their ilk, or start with their local politicians in the next closest election and rid this country's government of them, charging the new-comers first and foremost with continuing to remove the corrupt from every other branch of government. NO, FOOLS, the Second Amendment to the Constitution was never intended to allow the United States Government to interfere with the religious institutions of the United States Citizens, especially, indeed MOST ESPECIALLY, by allowing the UNCHALLENGED LEGISLATION, AND SUBSEQUENT ENFORCEMENT OF A NATIONAL RELIGON OF ATHEISM from the Supreme Court Bench.
Apathy and pacifism no long cut it for the Godly of this nation. It is time to stand up, join God's army, and start bringing these abominations back under control, or at least, back into their closets and other dens of inequity. Get them out of the public's face and remove them from all offices of influence on the people of this, the only nation in the history of humanity, specifically and indisputably created IN, GOD'S NAME.
More...
We do not need abominations in the face of God so-called protecting us from the other minions of Satan we face as a FREE people. As in all things, every red-blooded American who is devoted to the freedoms and liberty our swiftly eroding Constitution once vigorously protected for, us from the deprivations of the ungodly so well, though is now crumbling swiftly under the attacks of the Godless, the abominable, and the Satanic who hold us by the throats today has a choice to make; roll over and die in the face of the evil politicians, judges, coalitionized abominations and all of their ilk, or start with their local politicians in the next closest election and rid this country's government of them, charging the new-comers first and foremost with continuing to remove the corrupt from every other branch of government. NO, FOOLS, the Second Amendment to the Constitution was never intended to allow the United States Government to interfere with the religious institutions of the United States Citizens, especially, indeed MOST ESPECIALLY, by allowing the UNCHALLENGED LEGISLATION, AND SUBSEQUENT ENFORCEMENT OF A NATIONAL RELIGON OF ATHEISM from the Supreme Court Bench.
Apathy and pacifism no long cut it for the Godly of this nation. It is time to stand up, join God's army, and start bringing these abominations back under control, or at least, back into their closets and other dens of inequity. Get them out of the public's face and remove them from all offices of influence on the people of this, the only nation in the history of humanity, specifically and indisputably created IN, GOD'S NAME.
33
I am not proud to be american, the other day at a local coffee house I spoke to a young, straight x military guy. He spoke of how he witness the killing of a outed member of his company in his sleep. He now is in psyc. now.
Most Commented on Slog
-
Life and Death in a Recliner in South Carolina by Dan Savage
-
Pit Bulls! by Dan Savage
-
Becoming a Man by Dan Savage
-
SL Letter of the Day: Hot & Drunk by Dan Savage
-
Your Wife Died Alone... by Dan Savage
-
Meanwhile in Vancouver by Dan Savage
-
Precious: Brutal New Classic or African-American Bruno? by David Schmader
-
WTF? by Dan Savage
-
The Democrats Have 60 Votes in the Senate for Health Care Reform by Jonathan Golob
-
Health at Every Size by Dan Savage
RSS
Facebook
Twitter
Comments (33) RSS