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News & ArtsMonday, June 29, 2009
Homo / News The Gay Panic Offense
Posted by Dan Savage on Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 8:58 AM
The police in Forth Worth, Texas, are claiming that the patrons of a gay bar they raided—on the 40th anniversary of the raid on the Stonewall Inn—groped them.
Rainbow Lounge owner J.R. Schrock said claims that patrons made sexual advances to the officers and that one patron groped an officer were lies. “The groping of the police officer—really? We’re gay, but we’re not dumb,” Schrock said to the crowd that gathered at the bar Sunday afternoon. “That is a lie, and I am appalled by it."
The police first claimed that one patron made sexual advances but later claimed that "two intoxicated individuals made sexually explicit moves toward officers and a third grabbed a TABC agent’s groin." Either the police are masking their bigotry by invoking stereotypes about gay men—we're all out of control sexual predators—or it's true that no one can resist a man in uniform.
One of the men arrested in the raid—Chad Gibson—is currently in an ICU unit with bleeding in his brain after "officers threw him to the ground and used zip-ties to handcuff him."
More on the raid, the protests, and the political response at the Dallas Voice.
1
Are you going to admit that you were just plain flat-out wrong when you wrote:
"a phenomenon that's never been observed in straight bars in Texas""
========
austindwiattorney . org / tabc /
"This is the second time in three years that the TABC has been embarrassed by an undercover sting operation. In 2005, the commission used undercover agents to target 'problem' bars that had been identified as the most common places where drunk drivers arrested for Texas DWI had received their last drink. Under the 'Sales to Intoxicated Persons' (SIPS) program, agents were on the lookout for bartenders and waitresses over-serving alcohol to intoxicated patrons. The effort quickly morphed into a focus on the drinkers rather than the establishment and the servers. Under the guise of stopping intoxicated patrons before they could get to their vehicles and drive while drunk, agents were making arrests for public intoxication in the bar. The program was obviously unpopular with bar owners and patrons alike.
Then in April of 2006, a woman was arrested in an Irving, Texas hotel bar. She, however, was a guest at the hotel and had not planned on driving anywhere that evening. Immediately afterwards, TABC officials were called to legislative sessions and grilled over their policies. Paul Dunham, principal of an Austin Texas DWI defense firm, says "drunk driving should never be condoned, but I have a concern over the reach of the TABC program. It is one thing to make an effort to reduce incidents of driving while intoxicated in Texas, but it is another to initiate an arrest without proper analysis of the scene or situation." The SIPS program and now the undercover retail sting efforts have been suspended by the TABC.
Posted by Dunham Law Firm, P.C.
More...
"a phenomenon that's never been observed in straight bars in Texas""
========
austindwiattorney . org / tabc /
"This is the second time in three years that the TABC has been embarrassed by an undercover sting operation. In 2005, the commission used undercover agents to target 'problem' bars that had been identified as the most common places where drunk drivers arrested for Texas DWI had received their last drink. Under the 'Sales to Intoxicated Persons' (SIPS) program, agents were on the lookout for bartenders and waitresses over-serving alcohol to intoxicated patrons. The effort quickly morphed into a focus on the drinkers rather than the establishment and the servers. Under the guise of stopping intoxicated patrons before they could get to their vehicles and drive while drunk, agents were making arrests for public intoxication in the bar. The program was obviously unpopular with bar owners and patrons alike.
Then in April of 2006, a woman was arrested in an Irving, Texas hotel bar. She, however, was a guest at the hotel and had not planned on driving anywhere that evening. Immediately afterwards, TABC officials were called to legislative sessions and grilled over their policies. Paul Dunham, principal of an Austin Texas DWI defense firm, says "drunk driving should never be condoned, but I have a concern over the reach of the TABC program. It is one thing to make an effort to reduce incidents of driving while intoxicated in Texas, but it is another to initiate an arrest without proper analysis of the scene or situation." The SIPS program and now the undercover retail sting efforts have been suspended by the TABC.
Posted by Dunham Law Firm, P.C.
2
@1, I doubt Dan will admit that. But I will ask, if you've been keeping tabs, that you register at Slog. Just so we know you're not some handle-changing anonymous twat.
3
i know it's texas, but they can't be that fucking stupid. all the gay rights brouhaha going on all over the news, and they decide to raid a gay bar and arrest patrons arbitrarily? i think, based on @1's comment, this may just be a similar activity, and they're using whatever excuse they can think of to not get any more shit for it. homophobia, yes. but i think homophobia might just be the excuse this time, not the actual reason. or perhaps i'm naive. and it's a bunch of fagbashing redneck fucksticks. if that's the case, i hope they lose their stupid jobs.
still, it's sad about the man in ICU. condolences to him and his family.
still, it's sad about the man in ICU. condolences to him and his family.
4
Well, gee. I was being sarcastic when I implied that straight people don't get drunk in bars in Texas... when they do, as anyone who's ever been to Texas can attest. So... you have evidence that straight people do get drunk in Texas. Which supports my sarcastic point... sort of...
Since I was also implying that TABC was treating the patrons of gay bar differently that it would treat the patrons of a straight bar, and since you've clearly documented BS TABC raids on straight bars, perhaps I was wrong. But... please go dig up evidence of the TABC putting the patron of a straight bar into the ICU with bleeding on the brain... and claiming, essentially, that they had to respond with excessive force because the licentious straight people were groping them... and then you win! But it's clear now that TABC *did* treat patrons of this establishment differently—just not in the way I initially suggested.
Thanks for keeping us honest, anonymous douchebag!
Since I was also implying that TABC was treating the patrons of gay bar differently that it would treat the patrons of a straight bar, and since you've clearly documented BS TABC raids on straight bars, perhaps I was wrong. But... please go dig up evidence of the TABC putting the patron of a straight bar into the ICU with bleeding on the brain... and claiming, essentially, that they had to respond with excessive force because the licentious straight people were groping them... and then you win! But it's clear now that TABC *did* treat patrons of this establishment differently—just not in the way I initially suggested.
Thanks for keeping us honest, anonymous douchebag!
5
There's many reasons I moved from that shit-hole state and more get added to the list everyday. I lived there 30 years and am even a bit shocked by this. I hope the gays in DFW raise some hell over it.
6
Sorry, Dan, shitty coverup attempt. There is nothing sarcastic about what you wrote:
"making arbitrary arrests for public intoxication (a phenomenon that's never been observed in straight bars in Texas)"
It is just plain factually wrong and your lame explanation sucks.
"making arbitrary arrests for public intoxication (a phenomenon that's never been observed in straight bars in Texas)"
It is just plain factually wrong and your lame explanation sucks.
8
4
The police report did not claim that the individual who ended up in the hospital was one of the ones who groped the officers.
The police report did not claim that the individual who ended up in the hospital was one of the ones who groped the officers.
9
@3: Oh, TABC is in bars all the time. They typically will stake a bar out to get a feel for receipts, tips and non-alcohol-related sales. If a bar is turning over a solid non-liquor profit, TABC will slam them and trump up charges, raid the place and basically make like vikings.
For straight bars, it's typically random drunk girls that get things shut down or "provocative clothing" on men, typically solid colored shirts. If a guy looks like a gang member and gets wasted, they'll raid a well-stocked and high-sales bar. Little ghetto wetspots don't get raided unless they aren't paying the cops off.
For gay bars, all bets are typically off. Most gay bars in Texas have cheap drinks which means their tips are high and liquor sales are low. This leads to lack of cover on a lot of nights unless the bar pulls in enough to pay off the TABC and cops. The cops never fail to use the "gay man groped me" or "violent lesbian" card when they raid a place. In one instance, they followed a coke-dealing circuit around until it got to a lesbian bar that has a pretty solid tip base and charged cover. Then they busted it. And they blamed "violent confrontation" for their heavy-handed raid.
It's not as bad as it was about 5 years ago since people are wising up to the TABC, but Fort Worth is really REALLY conservative which is why this thing doesn't surprise me.
@1, in the straight bars, they yank people off their barstools quickly and haul them out front and rough them up. In gay bars, it's wayyyyy different. They'll shove everyone out the front door and start arresting people at random, busting heads along the way. They even run the media away and gag the story.
For straight bars, it's typically random drunk girls that get things shut down or "provocative clothing" on men, typically solid colored shirts. If a guy looks like a gang member and gets wasted, they'll raid a well-stocked and high-sales bar. Little ghetto wetspots don't get raided unless they aren't paying the cops off.
For gay bars, all bets are typically off. Most gay bars in Texas have cheap drinks which means their tips are high and liquor sales are low. This leads to lack of cover on a lot of nights unless the bar pulls in enough to pay off the TABC and cops. The cops never fail to use the "gay man groped me" or "violent lesbian" card when they raid a place. In one instance, they followed a coke-dealing circuit around until it got to a lesbian bar that has a pretty solid tip base and charged cover. Then they busted it. And they blamed "violent confrontation" for their heavy-handed raid.
It's not as bad as it was about 5 years ago since people are wising up to the TABC, but Fort Worth is really REALLY conservative which is why this thing doesn't surprise me.
@1, in the straight bars, they yank people off their barstools quickly and haul them out front and rough them up. In gay bars, it's wayyyyy different. They'll shove everyone out the front door and start arresting people at random, busting heads along the way. They even run the media away and gag the story.
10
@1:
There's a difference between targeting problem-bars and a bar that's been open for a week.
There's a difference between just arresting people and causing brain trauma.
There's a difference between, as far as all the reports I've read so far, arresting any drunk patron and "targeting effeminate men". Especially timing the raid of this newly opened bar on the Anniversary of a similar event in history.
As for the article you're quoting, the writing makes it sound not at all about protecting the public as it is about making arrests. While not discriminatory in that sense, it's still... not a sensible practice.
Public Intoxication in bars? No shit, Sherlock.
There's a difference between targeting problem-bars and a bar that's been open for a week.
There's a difference between just arresting people and causing brain trauma.
There's a difference between, as far as all the reports I've read so far, arresting any drunk patron and "targeting effeminate men". Especially timing the raid of this newly opened bar on the Anniversary of a similar event in history.
As for the article you're quoting, the writing makes it sound not at all about protecting the public as it is about making arrests. While not discriminatory in that sense, it's still... not a sensible practice.
Public Intoxication in bars? No shit, Sherlock.
12
I am reposting this response from the earlier thread about the raid on the Rainbow Lounge. Carollani had made a comment about the DoJ brief and Obama's position. Someone took her to task for her observations and I replied with the following:
What Carollani is getting at is that the message sent by the Obama administration in the DoJ brief helps to nurture and support the idea that it is acceptable to treat members of the GLBT community with less respect than "regular citizens" - it further legitimizes the thinking that non-straights can be treated "rougher and harsher" since they are "lesser beings" under the law.
It doesn't matter if the police involved were or weren't aware of the DoJ brief - what matters is that they were part of a mindset that condones that level of disrespect to GLBT citizens.
This incident also shows that there is still a great need for sensitivity training and education about minority groups in the communities served.
Raiding a gay bar on the anniversary of Stonewall is not unlike raiding a bar with a Black clientele on MLK day (or Juneteenth) or raiding a bar where Jews are gathered on Hanukkah or on Passover. It shows ignorance of major events within persecuted communities - times during which any action may be seen as further harassment and persecution.
What Carollani is getting at is that the message sent by the Obama administration in the DoJ brief helps to nurture and support the idea that it is acceptable to treat members of the GLBT community with less respect than "regular citizens" - it further legitimizes the thinking that non-straights can be treated "rougher and harsher" since they are "lesser beings" under the law.
It doesn't matter if the police involved were or weren't aware of the DoJ brief - what matters is that they were part of a mindset that condones that level of disrespect to GLBT citizens.
This incident also shows that there is still a great need for sensitivity training and education about minority groups in the communities served.
Raiding a gay bar on the anniversary of Stonewall is not unlike raiding a bar with a Black clientele on MLK day (or Juneteenth) or raiding a bar where Jews are gathered on Hanukkah or on Passover. It shows ignorance of major events within persecuted communities - times during which any action may be seen as further harassment and persecution.
14
I'm a bad man. I've insulted the good officers of the TABC who do not discriminate between gay and straight in the administration of brain injuries. Please don't read my blog.
17
@10: Well, no. For example, what happened under SIPS was not as the media portrayed it. A raid on a straight bar following the SIPS policy was essentially a group of agents or cops heading into the bar, having a staff member assist in leading that person out front and then arresting them. At the same time, they "investigate" the barstaff that was serving the customer by pulling registers and tip jars. Not once have I seen someone get their entire drawer back, and rarely do they get their tips back. It's the reason my friend stop working the bar at this family barbecue joint, from what I recall.
A raid on a gay bar under SIPS or any TABC policy begins with several cops walking in, heading for any visible exit and with a severe-looking person marching into the bar's office with 2 large cops. Seconds later, all hell breaks loose. The lights come on, music goes off, cops come in and stand behind the bars and watch registers and tip jars. People are herded through the front door onto the street. I've seen people arrested pretty roughly, but with the types of forcible detainment legal in Texas, it's rare that anyone would really be able to fight back unless they wanted their head cracked open.
Then the TABC goes to town inside, cops writing citations, "investigations" into the finances of the place.
Thank god for taco trucks. Standing outside while cops yell at people to "shut up!" and mumbling epithets is made better when you've got a tofu wrap and a diet sprite to hold you over until they let you all wander away.
A raid on a gay bar under SIPS or any TABC policy begins with several cops walking in, heading for any visible exit and with a severe-looking person marching into the bar's office with 2 large cops. Seconds later, all hell breaks loose. The lights come on, music goes off, cops come in and stand behind the bars and watch registers and tip jars. People are herded through the front door onto the street. I've seen people arrested pretty roughly, but with the types of forcible detainment legal in Texas, it's rare that anyone would really be able to fight back unless they wanted their head cracked open.
Then the TABC goes to town inside, cops writing citations, "investigations" into the finances of the place.
Thank god for taco trucks. Standing outside while cops yell at people to "shut up!" and mumbling epithets is made better when you've got a tofu wrap and a diet sprite to hold you over until they let you all wander away.
18
Sadly, Fort Worth is probably better than a lot of other places in TX.
That said, there's a reason why I don't agree that the Voting Rights Act should be suspended - because certain attitudes - while papered over - are still hot and heavy beneath the surface.
That said, there's a reason why I don't agree that the Voting Rights Act should be suspended - because certain attitudes - while papered over - are still hot and heavy beneath the surface.
19
Dan can be the nastiest bitch when confronted with being wrong, a la #1 via #4.
The commenter wasn't even being snarky or bratty, he or she simply offered counterpoint for discussion.
I say this as a fan of yours, Savage, that you really represent a lot of what you detest (cognitive/opinionated rigidity) and it can be disgustingly unbecoming.
So, who's the douchebag again, Dan?
The commenter wasn't even being snarky or bratty, he or she simply offered counterpoint for discussion.
I say this as a fan of yours, Savage, that you really represent a lot of what you detest (cognitive/opinionated rigidity) and it can be disgustingly unbecoming.
and claiming, essentially, that they had to respond with excessive force because the licentious straight people were groping them... and then you win! But it's clear now that TABC *did* treat patrons of this establishment differently—just not in the way I initially suggested.
Thanks for keeping us honest, anonymous douchebag!
So, who's the douchebag again, Dan?
20
Schrock is right, the allegations made by the officers are ludicrous...unless you happen to be of the mindset that all gay people are icky, depraved sex perverts. Then it makes perfect sense.
22
@14
You're not a bad man, Dan.
Just a really shitty excuse for a "journalist".
Why don't you stick to what you're good at.
Wasn't it baking cookies?...
You're not a bad man, Dan.
Just a really shitty excuse for a "journalist".
Why don't you stick to what you're good at.
Wasn't it baking cookies?...
24
And here I thought Seattle had some draconian practices for making life difficult for bars under the aegis of liquor control.
28
Why don't those cops go pick on people their own size... like some Texas diesel dykes! Then they might get what's coming to them.
36
@23 And what does groping a homophobic drunk fellow bar patron have to do with groping a COP who's conducting a RAID? Not that I'm conceding Matthew Shephard groped his murderers . . . homophobes who would torture and kill a defenseless, skinny, short young gay man might also lie and say they were propositioned because in their twisted sickness, that might actually work as an excuse.
37
@#6 and others...
"making arbitrary arrests for public intoxication (a phenomenon that's never been observed in straight bars in Texas)"
Dan wasn't claiming that people never got arrested in straight bar raids, people. He was making a sarcastic joke implying that straight people never got drunk in bars. He was saying "public intoxication" is a phenomenon never observed in straight bars. (But it is. 'Cause we get drunk too. Get it?)
Comprehension fail.
"making arbitrary arrests for public intoxication (a phenomenon that's never been observed in straight bars in Texas)"
Dan wasn't claiming that people never got arrested in straight bar raids, people. He was making a sarcastic joke implying that straight people never got drunk in bars. He was saying "public intoxication" is a phenomenon never observed in straight bars. (But it is. 'Cause we get drunk too. Get it?)
Comprehension fail.
39
@38, I read it like MichelleZB, also. Only on second glance did I see the other possible interpretation. It's an ambiguous sentence (that the author cleared up at #4).
40
Holy crap... Matt from Denver is arguing with anonymous trolls of undetermined number...
What the fuck were we talking about in the first place again?
I'm just going to call you all nazis and satisfy Godwin's Law.
Then I'm going to invoke Savage's Corollary and point out that nothing like this would ever happen if gays could marry.
There now. Anybody up for jumping a shark?
What the fuck were we talking about in the first place again?
I'm just going to call you all nazis and satisfy Godwin's Law.
Then I'm going to invoke Savage's Corollary and point out that nothing like this would ever happen if gays could marry.
There now. Anybody up for jumping a shark?
41
@ 40, I was pretty much all done. And since "fascist" is the new nazi, I think Godwin's was already satisfied. But thanks for thinking of me.
42
Matt, you weren't done, and I know you are still checking this thread, and I bet you are having a hard time resisting a rebuttal to this very comment.
Also, this is my first comment, so does that make me troll number four?
Also, this is my first comment, so does that make me troll number four?
45
Once again, Dan, I must ask why The Stranger even transitioned to having a log-in sign up posting method when they still allow anonymous comments. So far, in every post I've read since your site changed formats, the most ignorant, rude, obviously-trolling vitriol that is only there to insight a response from you and honestly rarely has anything to actually contribute to the conversation (and when it does it is conveyed in the most immature, hateful, juvenile way possible) has all been purely found in the anonymous comments. Get rid of them. For your own sanity. If they want to be hateful, vile idiots let then do it under a registered name that you can track and ban.
46
@45: Turning unregistered comments stays put now, Aedan.
At most they should just be blips in your comment flow.
At most they should just be blips in your comment flow.
47
45
"track and ban"
typical passive aggressive pussy coward Liberal response to opinions different from their own...
"track and ban"
typical passive aggressive pussy coward Liberal response to opinions different from their own...
48
Deciding to raid a gay bar for any reason on this particular date strikes me as monumentally insensitive or powerful dumb. Considering it's Ft Worth, probably both. Weren't them Texans gonna secede? When is that happening? (Sorry, Austin--we'll miss you!)
50
I finally decided it was time to click the button to turn off unregistered comments. Why didn't I do it sooner, he asked rhetorically. Things are looking much better around here already.
52
@48: I think Austin down to the Rio Grande Valley should secede from Texas. You have liberal Austin and the City of San Antonio whose mayor decided of his own volition to join the pride parade and was then named grand marshal.
The new capital of Old Texas should be Fort Worth, and Austin can be the capital of New Texas.
The new capital of Old Texas should be Fort Worth, and Austin can be the capital of New Texas.
53
Gee, there are a "lot" of anonymous posters. Who all post at the exact same time. Yeah, that's the way to convince people that there are more than one of you. It's not as effective as registering....
59
Why does Matt in Denver insist on trolling Seattle blogs? I know Denver is boring, but fercrisesakes, there must be SOMETHING in Denver worth trolling.
60
I don't know if I'm supposed to say anything, but ECB leaked to me that Fnarf and Matt in Denver are up for this year's Stranger Cocksuck of the Year Award. The prize is a free Slog account with avatar and a $8.99 gift certificate to QFC.
64
The idea of raiding a bar for public intoxication (or "over-serving," if that's what this squad was originally formed to do) is imbecilic. Sure, most responsible bartenders will cut somebody off at some point - the point depending heavily on circumstances - but that point is always far, far past the point when the person isn't safe to drive.
At any given moment many if not most of the people in a bar will be too drunk to safely drive. There's no way of knowing which ones are planning on driving afterwards. If the government of a city or state considers that unacceptably risky, they could try shutting bars down, I suppose. The fact that these people have a goon squad that goes around cracking down on people for being drunk in bars means that the establishment is (1) so hopelessly conservative they think anyone who's having fun deserves what he gets; (2) so hopelessly hypocritical they're unwilling to let go of the revenue in taxes, fines, licensing fees, paybacks, etc. from the practice they condemn.
Sure, they crack down harder on gays, because they think they can get away with it, which in large parts of Texas they usually can. If it weren't gays it would be Hispanics or people with tattoos or people who like cats. This isn't really about gay rights; this is about certain parts of the country where the people who are too willfully stupid to breathe reaches a critical concentration.
At any given moment many if not most of the people in a bar will be too drunk to safely drive. There's no way of knowing which ones are planning on driving afterwards. If the government of a city or state considers that unacceptably risky, they could try shutting bars down, I suppose. The fact that these people have a goon squad that goes around cracking down on people for being drunk in bars means that the establishment is (1) so hopelessly conservative they think anyone who's having fun deserves what he gets; (2) so hopelessly hypocritical they're unwilling to let go of the revenue in taxes, fines, licensing fees, paybacks, etc. from the practice they condemn.
Sure, they crack down harder on gays, because they think they can get away with it, which in large parts of Texas they usually can. If it weren't gays it would be Hispanics or people with tattoos or people who like cats. This isn't really about gay rights; this is about certain parts of the country where the people who are too willfully stupid to breathe reaches a critical concentration.
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