Monday, June 29, 2009
News Madoff Gets 150 Years
Posted by Anthony Hecht on Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 9:02 AM
Bernie Madoff sentenced to 150 years in prison for multi-billion-dollar fraud.
The courtroom erupted in cheers when the sentence was announced.
Imagine the cheers if the people actually responsible for the economic collapse were being sentenced.
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3
Scapegoat. Yes, Madoff was a bad, bad man but, as you point out, he didn't have anything to do with the economic collapse. And, of course, like all con artists, he couldn't have fleeced anyone who wasn't greedy. A few still very rich New Yorkers are as nothing compared to the millions out of work.
4
I know Madoff committed an awful crime but I don't think it's right to cheer when somebody's life sentence is announced.
6
@5: yes, they are.Everyone who invested with Madoff failed to do basic research or exercise due diligence. In hindsight, it's IMMEDIATELY OBVIOUS that his returns were suspect. Of course, in the climate of the day, lots of people got the fever and were blinded by the prospect of free money; that's what greed IS. Yes, he's a criminal, and deserves punishment, and his victims sympathy.
But the whole Madoff case diverts attention from the real perpetrators, who wiped out millions, not hundreds, and brought down the global economic system. They're not going to jail; they may have had a couple of sweaty moments in front of congress, but that's just theater. There are no real punishments. Most of them still work in finance. Hardly anyone even knows their names. Who started and ran AIG's Special Products Division? See? You don't know. He's a million times more criminal than that punk Bernie Madoff, and he's not only not going to jail, he's probably snorting blow off three hookers right now.
But the whole Madoff case diverts attention from the real perpetrators, who wiped out millions, not hundreds, and brought down the global economic system. They're not going to jail; they may have had a couple of sweaty moments in front of congress, but that's just theater. There are no real punishments. Most of them still work in finance. Hardly anyone even knows their names. Who started and ran AIG's Special Products Division? See? You don't know. He's a million times more criminal than that punk Bernie Madoff, and he's not only not going to jail, he's probably snorting blow off three hookers right now.
7
I dunno. I think that if there was some kind of en masse trial of people who took out subprime and interest only loans, knowing full well that they were gambling on housing prices only going up, there'd be howls of protest.
Oh, wait, do you mean a trial for the greedy executives who *allowed* millions of helpless, uneducated Americans make the terrible decisions that were the root cause of the problem?*
* (Yes, collateralization and all that, and there's lots of blame to go around, but the people who signed the right side of loans they were likely to default on are just as culpable as the bankers who signed the left side)
Oh, wait, do you mean a trial for the greedy executives who *allowed* millions of helpless, uneducated Americans make the terrible decisions that were the root cause of the problem?*
* (Yes, collateralization and all that, and there's lots of blame to go around, but the people who signed the right side of loans they were likely to default on are just as culpable as the bankers who signed the left side)
8
and yet people who commit violent crimes (especially against vulnerable people) rarely ever get sentences like this.
9
The length of the sentence doesn't really matter much. At his age, 20 years would have been a life sentence.
10
Madoff made the mistake of fleecing rich and powerful people. If he had stolen millions from regular folks (like Enron, WorldCom, etc) his sentence would have been miniscule. Such are the realities of our legal system.
12
Fnarf is Will in Seattle's made up stories but with an extra assertion of elitism.
He would have never fallen for this because he is perfect and all knowing.
13
@10: I'm with you in sentiment, but the facts don't back you up.
Worldcom and Enron both stole from "regular folks" (mostly their employees and famalies, but also "regular folks" who participate in the stock market) as well as from the rich and powerul. Citigroup, CIBC, and JP Morgan *each* paid over $2B to settle claims relating to Enron. If taking $7B from those companies isn't messing with the rich and powerful, I don't know what would be.
Likewise with Worldcom: institutional investors lost a fortune, in addition to employees who lost pension money. And of course Ebbers was sentenced to 25 years, which is probably not a "miniscule" sentence.
And then Madoff stole from small timers, too. NPR had a story about a cab driver, I think, who lost $100k.
So yeah, the legal system and all that. But I don't buy either the "Worldcom and Enron got off easy" argument or the "Madoff hurt big players more" argument. Just looking to correct facts here.
Worldcom and Enron both stole from "regular folks" (mostly their employees and famalies, but also "regular folks" who participate in the stock market) as well as from the rich and powerul. Citigroup, CIBC, and JP Morgan *each* paid over $2B to settle claims relating to Enron. If taking $7B from those companies isn't messing with the rich and powerful, I don't know what would be.
Likewise with Worldcom: institutional investors lost a fortune, in addition to employees who lost pension money. And of course Ebbers was sentenced to 25 years, which is probably not a "miniscule" sentence.
And then Madoff stole from small timers, too. NPR had a story about a cab driver, I think, who lost $100k.
So yeah, the legal system and all that. But I don't buy either the "Worldcom and Enron got off easy" argument or the "Madoff hurt big players more" argument. Just looking to correct facts here.
14
Meanwhile most CEOs and CFOs who also stole billions and lied to investors and consumers alike, remain both unprosecuted and with all the assets they stole.
Hmmm.
Hmmm.
15
@12, I'm not perfect; in fact I am stupid -- but, to quote Clint Eastwood, "a man's got to know his limitations", and I know enough to know that some guy who claims he can beat the market is full of shit, and if I ever start thinking I can beat the market, I'll be full of shit too. Low-fee mutual funds, like at Vanguard, and yes, I've had the shit beat out of me recently but nothing like Madoff's victims have.
The financial crisis wasn't caused by bad loans. It was caused by mathematical models that even the douchebags who developed them don't understand, that turned every penny of debt into a hundred dollars of obligation. That's what drove the debt-seeking. And we could have weathered a little housing bubble just fine if it hadn't been for the "special products".
"Stole" isn't the word you're looking for there, Will, but that's no surprise; you have no idea how anything works.
The financial crisis wasn't caused by bad loans. It was caused by mathematical models that even the douchebags who developed them don't understand, that turned every penny of debt into a hundred dollars of obligation. That's what drove the debt-seeking. And we could have weathered a little housing bubble just fine if it hadn't been for the "special products".
"Stole" isn't the word you're looking for there, Will, but that's no surprise; you have no idea how anything works.
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