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News & ArtsFriday, June 26, 2009
Politics Disposable Bags and Windbags
Posted by Dominic Holden on Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 4:15 PM
SurveyUSA has released an opinion poll on Seattle's bag-tax referendum and mayoral candidates. Seattle Mayor Greg Nickels leads the pack with 24 percent of likely primary voters and City Council Member Drago is second place at 15 percent, says the KING 5-sponsored poll. Interestingly, Drago leads among self-identified conservatives and Republicans. Former Sonic James Donaldson earned 14 percent support. The other candidates have eight percent support or less; they're basically toast. The real question, of course, is how a head-to-head match between Nickels and anyone else at all would shake out. Conventional wisdom suggests that, with less than a quarter of the voters supporting him, Nickels is in trouble.
And here's the bag-tax results, which indicate the vote could go either way:
Half of Seattle likely voters today say they are certain to vote yes on a ballot referendum that would require a 20 cent fee on disposable shopping bags; half say they are certain to vote no. Support for the measure is highest among young voters and among liberals, Democrats, and those with college degrees. Opposition is strongest among Republicans, conservatives, those without college educations, and among the oldest voters.
1
Well, that's certainly better support than before, after the plastics industry freaked out and before the real marketing blitz from the enviros.
SURRENDER, PLASTIC BAGS!
SURRENDER, PLASTIC BAGS!
2
How was the previous poll (which showed something like 90 percent opposed) conducted? It's entirely possible that the majority of city residents think the law is stupid, but aren't up in arms over it.
3
D, check out how the question was asked. something like would you vote for "nickels, drago, donaldson or other" BS poll.
4
"Opposition is strongest among Republicans, conservatives, those without college educations, and among the oldest voters."
lol. What a sorry lot that is.
lol. What a sorry lot that is.
5
@4, they vote.
And Dominic, I don't think you can count Mallahan out. Drago and Donaldson don't have money. He does, and if he can convince people he's a viable alternative over the summer (admittedly not an easy task) he's got a shot. I wouldn't say he's toast just yet.
And Dominic, I don't think you can count Mallahan out. Drago and Donaldson don't have money. He does, and if he can convince people he's a viable alternative over the summer (admittedly not an easy task) he's got a shot. I wouldn't say he's toast just yet.
6
Hey Dominic,
SurveyUSA does not make any attempt to single out voters likely to participate in the primary. Mallahan and McGinn support is underestimated by this poll. This is complicated further by the fact that August's primary is earlier than ever, which makes turnout very difficult to predict. You are absolutely right that Nickels is in trouble, but other than that, it's hard to interpret much else from these numbers. It's kind of anybody's game right now.
SurveyUSA does not make any attempt to single out voters likely to participate in the primary. Mallahan and McGinn support is underestimated by this poll. This is complicated further by the fact that August's primary is earlier than ever, which makes turnout very difficult to predict. You are absolutely right that Nickels is in trouble, but other than that, it's hard to interpret much else from these numbers. It's kind of anybody's game right now.
7
I picked up a reusable grocery bag from the Green Bag Campaign booth at the Fremont Fair last weekend. They will likely be at Seattle Center on Sunday following the Pride parade. Canvas bags are also available at the Capitol Hill Farmers Market and, probably, other neighborhood farmers markets. Regardless of how the disposable bag tax vote goes it's good to have and use something reusable.
8
ooh, I have a good idea, let's make the poor have to either purchase their own reusable bags and/or make it more expensive on the poor to get plastic bags.
this is an awesome measure that surely won't strike at the lowest economic class.
this is an awesome measure that surely won't strike at the lowest economic class.
9
@8, that's like China saying they get to pollute more because they're less developed than other countries.
10
Poverty is a specious argument - Used tote bags cost 50 cents at most of the thrift stores in town. Canvas totes are also much stronger than plastic grocery bags and much more secure for bus or bicycle rides.
11
A moderate, anti-crime Republican would steal Nichols pants and run away with the race. I'm waiting for Dan Satterberg to enter the race and clean house.
12
I'm voting against the bag tax. I pet sit and use the bags for animal waste. So I'd just end up buying bags anyway. I don't fit the voter profile though (conservative, repub, no college). Maybe "older."
13
If you'd just end up buying bags anyway, then just buy the bags anyway. You likely will be able to buy a box of smaller plastic bags for a couple of bucks.
If we don't pass this law, then those of us who aren't using the bags and don't want them won't have to pay (thorugh the higher costs of all food items) for the cost of your polluting ass for your free bags.
Look at it like this: "should we remove the forced subsidy of pollution causing, whale killing bags, so that people who don't want to pollute or kill whales, don't have to subsidize those who do?"
If we don't pass this law, then those of us who aren't using the bags and don't want them won't have to pay (thorugh the higher costs of all food items) for the cost of your polluting ass for your free bags.
Look at it like this: "should we remove the forced subsidy of pollution causing, whale killing bags, so that people who don't want to pollute or kill whales, don't have to subsidize those who do?"
14
@9 Ok...so you're willing to go to war with China to stop them?
Don't worry guys, we know that you're totally sympathetic to the poor. As soon as you stop increasing prices on them, that is.
Don't worry guys, we know that you're totally sympathetic to the poor. As soon as you stop increasing prices on them, that is.
15
@13 I hardly think you can solely connect food prices with the complimentary uses of plastic bags. I do think things like plastic bag taxes and the like are regressive taxes, i.e. those that don't impact the well to do but potentially hurt the poor. It is like having a tax on toilet paper in my opinion. We could all use re-usable washable canvas ass cloth but we don't want to. That's not really my point however, as long as the reusable bags can be subsidized by the tax itself, then I think it is a good idea. In addition, like other resourceful but not particularly wealthy liberals I reuse everything, that includes plastic bags, jars of spaghetti sauce, etc. Or how about a program where a customer can return plastic bags to the store itself for recycling and earn credit towards getting a nifty QFC or Madison Market branded bag... a nice marketing thing for stores, you know? It could be kind of like a bottle deposit, which I also think we should have.
Otherwise, I am all in favor of a tax because it does curb those who either take advantage or otherwise choose not to give a shit. In these times we can't suffer either.
Otherwise, I am all in favor of a tax because it does curb those who either take advantage or otherwise choose not to give a shit. In these times we can't suffer either.
16
@11: The filing period ended three weeks ago, dude.
@8, 14, 15: Poor people aren't going to pay 20 cents for a plastic bag. Neither will anyone else who doesn't want to. They'll bring a bag or just carry their things home in their hands and/or pockets.
@5: Nickels is actually doing very well. Mallahan is his toughest competition, but only if he can make it through the primary. Nickels can take Drago easily and McGinn with some effort. James Donaldson is a joke.
@8, 14, 15: Poor people aren't going to pay 20 cents for a plastic bag. Neither will anyone else who doesn't want to. They'll bring a bag or just carry their things home in their hands and/or pockets.
@5: Nickels is actually doing very well. Mallahan is his toughest competition, but only if he can make it through the primary. Nickels can take Drago easily and McGinn with some effort. James Donaldson is a joke.
17
J.R. - the problem is, is that the inconvenient method of "carrying stuff in your hands" has been voluntarily solved by the grocery stores, and you don't have a problem taking that away.
Is this is a regressive tax? Strictly speaking, no, but the poor, who have to say, ride a bus for a half-an-hour after going to the grocery store and benefit the most from the reuse of plastic bags, will be the hardest hit.
So, way to go. Again.
Is this is a regressive tax? Strictly speaking, no, but the poor, who have to say, ride a bus for a half-an-hour after going to the grocery store and benefit the most from the reuse of plastic bags, will be the hardest hit.
So, way to go. Again.
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