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News & ArtsWednesday, June 24, 2009
Homo Gay Marriage In California
Posted by Dan Savage on Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 9:56 AM
They have to realize—the enemies of equality—that their "victories" aren't going to stop us from pressing for our rights?
The okay has been given to supporters of an initiative to legalize gay marriage in California to gather signatures to put the measure before voters in 2010. If approved, the amendment to the California Constitution would nullify Proposition 8, which outlawed gay marriage.Supporters, lead by the Sacramento group “Yes on Equality,” say the amendment would make it clear that it is not intended to modify or change the curriculum in any school or to mandate or require clergy of any church or religious institution to perform a service or duty inconsistent with his or her faith.
Want the gay marriage issue to "go away"? Don't want to have to listen to arguments, pro or con, about gay marriage? Don't want the gay marriage debate to dominate the news? Think this issue is a silly distraction compared to other, more important issues? Great: legalize gay marriage and the distracting debate about gay marriage will end. But that's the only thing that will end it.
1
If I had a magic wand, Dan, that I could wave and make your wish come true... I'd do it in a heartbeat.
In the meantime, I have to wonder if the people you presume to be lecturing actually READ the Slog.
I'm guessing not.
In the meantime, I have to wonder if the people you presume to be lecturing actually READ the Slog.
I'm guessing not.
2
1, Perhaps you haven't met Loveschild? The gay-hating, anti marriage equality, yet somehow unable to stop herself, drawn to homo-centric blogs, Slog addict?
3
We can want this silly distraction to go away, but we know that it never will. There are forces stronger than any one individual that are at play in this scenario.
An individual can want something very badly. Whether that happens or not is dependent on factors that are often out of the control of the individual.
That does not mean however, that you should not expect ridicule, scorn, contempt, expressions of annoyance, and pushback from those who tire of your hourly crusade.
There ARE other issues in the world far more important, newsworthy, and relevant to readers.
If you continue to overwhelm those on the fence about an issue, it will turn them away from your cause. Feel free to continue pushing teh gay agenda. It is your right. But know that you are driving viewers away from both your blog and your political agenda with the oversaturation.
Your choice.
An individual can want something very badly. Whether that happens or not is dependent on factors that are often out of the control of the individual.
That does not mean however, that you should not expect ridicule, scorn, contempt, expressions of annoyance, and pushback from those who tire of your hourly crusade.
There ARE other issues in the world far more important, newsworthy, and relevant to readers.
If you continue to overwhelm those on the fence about an issue, it will turn them away from your cause. Feel free to continue pushing teh gay agenda. It is your right. But know that you are driving viewers away from both your blog and your political agenda with the oversaturation.
Your choice.
4
Ahh! That would require rational thinking. We humans are rather irrational beings, we dislike change, and we struggle to overcome ingrained prejudices. We'd have to get over our fears, we'd have to embrace change and difference. We are capable of overcoming prejudice, bigotry, and discrimination, but that requires us to address these issues within ourselves, and realizing our poverty. Inward reflection isn't something we like to do. It seems that we'd rather sit in our fear, than face the poverty of our hearts. Rational thinking is seen as a dangerous thing. Here's to persistence and it's ability to wear away at fear.
5
We can want this silly distraction to go away, but we know that it never will. There are forces stronger than any one individual that are at play in this scenario.
An individual can want something very badly. Whether that happens or not is dependent on factors that are often out of the control of the individual.
That does not mean however, that you should not expect ridicule, scorn, contempt, expressions of annoyance, and pushback from those who tire of your hourly crusade.
There ARE other issues in the world far more important, newsworthy, and relevant to readers.
If you continue to overwhelm those on the fence about an issue, it will turn them away from your cause. Feel free to continue pushing teh gay agenda. It is your right. But know that you are driving viewers away from both your blog and your political agenda with the oversaturation.
Your choice.
An individual can want something very badly. Whether that happens or not is dependent on factors that are often out of the control of the individual.
That does not mean however, that you should not expect ridicule, scorn, contempt, expressions of annoyance, and pushback from those who tire of your hourly crusade.
There ARE other issues in the world far more important, newsworthy, and relevant to readers.
If you continue to overwhelm those on the fence about an issue, it will turn them away from your cause. Feel free to continue pushing teh gay agenda. It is your right. But know that you are driving viewers away from both your blog and your political agenda with the oversaturation.
Your choice.
6
It's interesting that this small and little-known group from Sacramento, "yes on Equality" has gone ahead and started gathering sigs while EQCA and the other big groups are still strategizing and debating on the 2010 vs 2012 question.
I say 2010 b/c a lot of marriage enemies might be less willing to fund this again so soon.
Are you going to have another fundraiser Dan? I ask b/c I am still waiting for my advice after donating in your NO on 8 fundraiser.
I say 2010 b/c a lot of marriage enemies might be less willing to fund this again so soon.
Are you going to have another fundraiser Dan? I ask b/c I am still waiting for my advice after donating in your NO on 8 fundraiser.
9
It would be great if the issue just went away. We were seen as just people and afforded the rights all other people in our society receive. But the majority doesn't like to let go of its privileged, so we have to fight for it.
@8 If you want to see movement on the Civil Disobedience front:
protestforhumanrights.com
thedallasprinciples.org/The_Dallas_Princ…
@8 If you want to see movement on the Civil Disobedience front:
protestforhumanrights.com
thedallasprinciples.org/The_Dallas_Princ…
10
@2 You're a goddamn idiot.
To suggest that the presence of one detractor warrants a continual finger-wag to the masses... that's just plain stupid.
To suggest that the presence of one detractor warrants a continual finger-wag to the masses... that's just plain stupid.
11
@6: Sigh.
Huge chunks of those emails went missing. No good deed goes unpunished...
Re-send your note, send it to my email at the stranger, and I'll answer today.
Huge chunks of those emails went missing. No good deed goes unpunished...
Re-send your note, send it to my email at the stranger, and I'll answer today.
12
@4 Kim I respect your well written posts a lot.
This is not about any fear or prejudice on my part, and the implication that persistence will wear away fear. If "persistence" means oversaturation of gay articles in the SLOG, and you think that simply by sheer volume, it will wear down a reader into turning into an enthusiastic supporter if only it will mean less posting on the topic, well... I'm afraid you are sadly mistaken.
Rather, it will drive away folks from SLOG who don't care to get into the fray, and are simply passive browsers of content, who come here looking for ALT Seattle news that appeals to the underground masses looking for information about what the real scoop going on in the city is all about.
SLOG needs to reflect the varied diversity that exists in the region. There is a huge variety of topics. Have we seen anything lately on the Burningman scene? Any new club information? How about a nightlife update on what is going on tonite, Friday, and Saturday this week at the clubs?
Ad nauseum...
This is not about any fear or prejudice on my part, and the implication that persistence will wear away fear. If "persistence" means oversaturation of gay articles in the SLOG, and you think that simply by sheer volume, it will wear down a reader into turning into an enthusiastic supporter if only it will mean less posting on the topic, well... I'm afraid you are sadly mistaken.
Rather, it will drive away folks from SLOG who don't care to get into the fray, and are simply passive browsers of content, who come here looking for ALT Seattle news that appeals to the underground masses looking for information about what the real scoop going on in the city is all about.
SLOG needs to reflect the varied diversity that exists in the region. There is a huge variety of topics. Have we seen anything lately on the Burningman scene? Any new club information? How about a nightlife update on what is going on tonite, Friday, and Saturday this week at the clubs?
Ad nauseum...
13
10, Um, yeah, there's just one detractor on Slog. Riiiiight. Do you even read this blog, and the comments?
Gee, I can't imagine why a blog with so many homosexual contributors would focus so much on gay issues. It's almost as if the homos running Slog think it's a forum for them to speak their minds! The nerve!
Gee, I can't imagine why a blog with so many homosexual contributors would focus so much on gay issues. It's almost as if the homos running Slog think it's a forum for them to speak their minds! The nerve!
15
The "marriage" issue is going to happen state-by-state (just as most civil rights movements--see Women's Suffrage), and the sooner we understand that and devote our time and energy to that strategy, the sooner we'll get full equality.
Is it annoying to have such a slow process? Of course it is, but that's how it works, kids. Even with a 365-electoral victory, Obama and the Democrats can't just bulldoze away DOMA without handing the GOP a huge bat to hit them with in 2010. And with fewer of those LGBT-friendly Dems in Congress, just see how much of the LGBT agenda you achieve in the rest of his first (or second) term.
Meanwhile, ENDA has been introduced in Congress--a bill with the best chance of passage, and would be the first piece of federal legislation for LBGT rights in American history. You'd think we could all get together and help shepherd that through, celebrate the victory, and then use the momentum for the harder battles over DADT and marriage equality? Oh, no, let's scream some more about who is or isn't attending a fundraiser--surely that's a more important focus of our precious time, energy and money.
Is it annoying to have such a slow process? Of course it is, but that's how it works, kids. Even with a 365-electoral victory, Obama and the Democrats can't just bulldoze away DOMA without handing the GOP a huge bat to hit them with in 2010. And with fewer of those LGBT-friendly Dems in Congress, just see how much of the LGBT agenda you achieve in the rest of his first (or second) term.
Meanwhile, ENDA has been introduced in Congress--a bill with the best chance of passage, and would be the first piece of federal legislation for LBGT rights in American history. You'd think we could all get together and help shepherd that through, celebrate the victory, and then use the momentum for the harder battles over DADT and marriage equality? Oh, no, let's scream some more about who is or isn't attending a fundraiser--surely that's a more important focus of our precious time, energy and money.
16
@12: Like gay rights in general, your "stop talking about it so much, you'll scare people away" blah blah blahing is contrary to the reality.
(insert something about your username here)
(insert something about your username here)
17
Also:
3-4 posts in rapid succession by "we're whining" and "suck it up girls", one from Loveschild decrying putting traditional marriage up for vote and a partridge in a pear tree.
3-4 posts in rapid succession by "we're whining" and "suck it up girls", one from Loveschild decrying putting traditional marriage up for vote and a partridge in a pear tree.
18
@15
Women's Suffrage only succeeded on a national level when a small upstart group challenged the large Suffrage movement of the day and demanded action by the President.
That's where I got my inspiration to stand in protest. Unless we are visible everyday people forget we are here. We need to demand our rights if ever expect to get them.
protestforhumanrights.com
Women's Suffrage only succeeded on a national level when a small upstart group challenged the large Suffrage movement of the day and demanded action by the President.
That's where I got my inspiration to stand in protest. Unless we are visible everyday people forget we are here. We need to demand our rights if ever expect to get them.
protestforhumanrights.com
19
Quick everybody! There's a new gay post up on the Slog, about 3 or 4 posts up!
I know... who saw THAT coming?
Let's pack up this picnic here and go squabble in the new post's comment section!
I know... who saw THAT coming?
Let's pack up this picnic here and go squabble in the new post's comment section!
20
@ 12,
Hey Reality Check,
I wasn't refering to you or SLOG, I was refering to my home state of California and the fight for equality there in regard to being persistent. And, it was also my comments on humanity as a whole.
Sorry, if you thought I was addressing you personally or your beliefs. Not being form Seattle, I don't come here for ALT Seattle, I have the Portland Mercury for that. I do enjoy many of the articles specifically about Seattle, but rarely choose to comment.
I see SLOG as a blog, and many of the posts are going to be meaningful to the writer. Those that are meaningfull to the reader are going to have active threads. I think that the bloggers, may take their cues from the threads. I wish we had more coverage of Iran, but the threads on those subjects have been for the most part short. Perhaps, short threads are seen as a lack of interest on the part of the daily readers? In short, SLOG isn't a news source for me, but it is a glimps into a world that, I, as a straight, Christian, mother of two don't personally live in. Yet, I feel personally compelled with a desire to understand.
I think SLOG serves another purpose for you. I don't mind your request for a more "varied" subject matter.
I do enjoy your posts as well. You provide a lot of food for thought.
Peace.
Hey Reality Check,
I wasn't refering to you or SLOG, I was refering to my home state of California and the fight for equality there in regard to being persistent. And, it was also my comments on humanity as a whole.
Sorry, if you thought I was addressing you personally or your beliefs. Not being form Seattle, I don't come here for ALT Seattle, I have the Portland Mercury for that. I do enjoy many of the articles specifically about Seattle, but rarely choose to comment.
I see SLOG as a blog, and many of the posts are going to be meaningful to the writer. Those that are meaningfull to the reader are going to have active threads. I think that the bloggers, may take their cues from the threads. I wish we had more coverage of Iran, but the threads on those subjects have been for the most part short. Perhaps, short threads are seen as a lack of interest on the part of the daily readers? In short, SLOG isn't a news source for me, but it is a glimps into a world that, I, as a straight, Christian, mother of two don't personally live in. Yet, I feel personally compelled with a desire to understand.
I think SLOG serves another purpose for you. I don't mind your request for a more "varied" subject matter.
I do enjoy your posts as well. You provide a lot of food for thought.
Peace.
21
Does anyone know whether the places where gay marriage has been legal for some years (e.g., Canada) have fewer people going on and on about the negatives of gay marriage? In other words, did legalizing it significantly calm down the debate? And what's happening in Iowa? Is the Mormon Church mustering its millions/billions to fight the law there?
22
# 21 Yes Canada has fewer people ranting about the negatives of gay marriage. In fact, the Conservative head of state hasn't dared bring it to a free vote in Parliament as he'd lose any vote trying to ban it. He could over ride the courts (the not withstanding clause in teh Charter) but he would look really whacko social conservative in the process .... and he is trying to win a majority. So he cannot pacify the minority of SoCons by yapping about gay marriage or abortion cuz those debates are closed to most Canadians
23
@21, I live in Massachusetts Gay marriage was legalized about four years or so(?) back. It is so very completely a non-issue now. Nobody talks about it at all. Granted, this is ultra-liberal Mass we are talking about it, but still. Legalize gay marriage and the discussion go away. Period. Dan, keep up the good fight.
24
And when the older population dies off , gay marriage is SO going to be a non issue as younger demographics have no problem at all with it according to polling data I've seen. And I think when people see that the world hasn't ended in Iowa or the other states, it will be harder to rave about gay marriage on any logical basis. Of course, i don't think arguments against gay marriage have any logical basis anyway.
25
@22 - exactly, same with abortion.
Major difference between here and there - teh gays are willing to take action in person and force it through.
Major difference between here and there - teh gays are willing to take action in person and force it through.
27
@22 , good point! It should be pushed and talked about more often by same sex marriage advocates and gay movement leaders.
Holland have had it legalized for 8 years now, Sweden ,for, i believe, 5, etc. and none of those horrible things that antigay bigots threaten of, are happening there.
We dont see a man walking out of his church with his new bride who is a poodle,on a leash, or polygamy or child molestation being legalized there.
"World won't come to an end, dont believe the scaremongers" that msg should be promoted more agressively.
Holland have had it legalized for 8 years now, Sweden ,for, i believe, 5, etc. and none of those horrible things that antigay bigots threaten of, are happening there.
We dont see a man walking out of his church with his new bride who is a poodle,on a leash, or polygamy or child molestation being legalized there.
"World won't come to an end, dont believe the scaremongers" that msg should be promoted more agressively.
28
Oops,i meant to say Belgium had it since 2003, not Sweden. Sweden (and Norway) legalised it this year.
29
@3: I don't think you can really be "on the fence" about whether a group of people deserve equal rights/treatment. People on the fence at this point = lazy and/or apathetic to the rights of a group of people that are not them. I don't think shutting up is going to convince those people any more than expressing ourselves on an hourly basis that we won't wait for fence-sitters anymore.
30
While Californians are amending their Constitution, perhaps they could make it so that it couldn't be amended quite so easily? Seems to me that a foundational document shouldn't be subject to the political equivalent of a drunken marriage in Las Vegas.
32
Of course the debate won't end until marriage equality is real.
Let's just hope it ends once it is real.
Let's just hope it ends once it is real.
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