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Tuesday, June 23, 2009

The Gay Marriage Debate

Posted by Dan Savage on Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:10 AM

A handy overview...

1555/1245769769-gaymarriagedebategraphic.jpg

Click image for complete chart. Thanks to Slog tipper G. Yip.

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Comments (23) RSS

Oldest First Unregistered On Registered On Add a comment
1
Any chance we can get a link to a larger copy...one that we can actually read?
Posted by Joey The Girl http://rosellajo.wordpress.com on June 23, 2009 at 8:18 AM
2
Click on the image. Drag your little draggy thing over it. It'll turn into a magnifying glass with a + sign on it. Click on it.
Posted by Dan Savage on June 23, 2009 at 8:22 AM
3
Didn't work for me. No magnifying glass here.
Posted by Nick on June 23, 2009 at 8:24 AM
4
If you're using Firefox or any other browser with tabbed browsing, open the link in a new tab. You could also right click on the link and "copy link location" and open it in another window.
Posted by Anti2501 on June 23, 2009 at 8:28 AM
5
Just save the link and open it a seperate image viewer. The png file is larger than the enlarged mouseover image.
Posted by apres_moi on June 23, 2009 at 8:31 AM
6
This will take a while to get through
Posted by samedelstein on June 23, 2009 at 8:37 AM
7
Right clicking and opening in a new tab...what a concept. Thanks!
Posted by Joey The Girl http://rosellajo.wordpress.com on June 23, 2009 at 8:41 AM
Max Solomon 8
i didn't see "the state should not license ANY marriages, that is the function of religious institutions. what the state should license is a civil union - regardless of the sex of the 2 human participants. the conflation of these 2 definitions of marriage is at the root of the opposition's fears."
Posted by Max Solomon on June 23, 2009 at 8:46 AM
Kris 9
I'm pretty sure the blue one toward the bottom says "Dogs and Oats living together"
Posted by Kris on June 23, 2009 at 8:49 AM
10
Or just enlarge it and drag the jpg into your desktop (works for Mac).

IMO - I would've added to the red upper left "You're NOT A REAL CHRISTIAN!" bubble (in blue) "Who died and made you God?"

I know, it's a childish statement but it's a childish debate.
Posted by jmcnyc on June 23, 2009 at 8:50 AM
11
#8 I understand your point but I know that when I, an agnostic, married it was important for it to be called a marriage and if you tried to tell me that because it was not sanctioned by a church it was something else, but not a marriage I would be upset.

That is why I understand that for same sex partners to have it be called a marriage is very important.
Posted by dearduskyNH on June 23, 2009 at 8:59 AM
12
The rebuttal to the non-sequitur-argument cracked me up, as did the tight little response to "love the sinner, hate the sin." Excellent.

When they make this chart's second incarnation, there needs to be a thread starting with the red hexagon, "Gay sex is so gross." I want to see that one resolved flowchart-style.
Posted by Christin http://twitter.com/scottique on June 23, 2009 at 9:05 AM
john t 13
"Gay sex is so gross, and why can't I stop thinking about it? Let me tell you all about how gross gay sex is, in carefully researched detail. Stop looking at me like that."
Posted by john t on June 23, 2009 at 9:14 AM
Rob in Baltimore 14
My favorite is God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve" one. Putting aside that it's a fictional ancient fable, that's not exactly what the Bible says.

First God made a man, Adam. And being a man, Adam had naughty bits. After God made Adam, God realized that it wasn't good for Adam to be alone. So what's a God to do? ...Uh-huh...That's right...God made animals. So God made all the animals on Earth, and presented each of billions of species to Adam so that Adam could name them and find a suitable helper. Only after Adam didn't find a suitable mate among the animal kingdom did it dawn on God that a human would want another human as a companion. So as an afterthought, God made Eve.
Posted by Rob in Baltimore http://domaflipflop.com/ on June 23, 2009 at 9:23 AM
15
@ Rob: Not quite. Genesis, chapter 1, says that God created man and woman at the same time, and of the same substance. Only later does the rib story happen about Adam being all alone and needing a mate.

The only resolution between the two stories I've heard is the Jewish mythology about Lilith. Basically, God creates Adam and Lilith at the same time, and then, when Lilith pisses God off, he kicks her out, and in response to Adam's loneliness, Eve is created.
Posted by JudT on June 23, 2009 at 10:23 AM
Rob in Baltimore 16
15, That is only one of many contradictions between Gen 1 and Gen 2. Example: Gen 1 also says that God created the animals, plants before he made man, and then Gen 2 says he made them after man. Lilith isn't mentioned in the Bible, and was most likely made up after the fact to explain that contradiction between the 2 chapters. (Never mind the contradictions that would create)

Even if Lilith had been in the Bible, it wouldn't explain why God would have thought that animals would be a suitable mate for the sexual being he created.
Posted by Rob in Baltimore http://domaflipflop.com/ on June 23, 2009 at 10:38 AM
Allyn 17
I LOVE that chart. That needs to be glued to every telephone pole in the US, except for a few select states.
Posted by Allyn on June 23, 2009 at 10:45 AM
Will in Seattle 18
Where's the part that says Action, not Words?
Posted by Will in Seattle http://www.facebook.com/WillSeattle on June 23, 2009 at 11:11 AM
kim in portland 19
I like the chart as well. It offers a lot of food for thought.
Posted by kim in portland http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPpCxY05dqs on June 23, 2009 at 11:12 AM
20
The "America is a Christian Nation" argument needs to be linked to a bubble labeled "Treaty of Tripoli".
Posted by redwulf25_ci on June 23, 2009 at 12:12 PM
21
@14 Another reason "God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve" is extra-super-duper not what the bible says, is that the Hebrew bible, the original "God's word," doesn't mention an "Eve" character at all. God makes Adam and CHAVA (in two different ways, as @15 details). It's harder to make a fundie rhyming ditty about Adam and Chava.
Posted by lymerae on June 23, 2009 at 2:48 PM
leek 22
Hey! My friend Patrick made that!
Posted by leek on June 23, 2009 at 4:56 PM
Uriel-238 23
Three thoughts:

1. This chart is awesome!

2. This is v1.3. Where are updates posted?

3. It it possible to contribute to 1.4?
Posted by Uriel-238 on June 24, 2009 at 12:43 AM

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