Thursday, June 18, 2009
Politics / Homo Fierce Advocates
Posted by Dan Savage on Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 4:40 PM
Rex Wockner pulled together a bracing blog post about the DOMA brief and the tsunami of gay anger that it unleashed.
Where to start? What has he done that's good? He issued a nice proclamation for pride month and he extended a few spousal benefits to federal employees' same-sex partners—sick leave and long-term care insurance, for example, but not health coverage, which he said June 17 is not within his power. That's the good news—all of it.What hasn't he done? Anything about Don't Ask, Don't Tell, anything about the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA), anything about the Employment Non-Discrimination Act. He's done nothing about any of the stuff he promised the gays before they rushed to the polls en masse last November to make sure he won that election.
And, then, Mr. Obama's Justice Department filed a brief June 11 in a federal same-sex marriage case that used nearly every nasty homophobic argument in the book to argue against letting gays get married. That was the straw that broke the camel's back and unleashed a flood of harsh criticism from gay VIPs.
Wockner walks you through all those reactions: it's required reading.
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3
And in advance, fuck all of you who complain that there's more important things the administration should be doing. Like you're doing jack shit about ANY of it.
6
It's really not the "gay vips" who matter at all. The actual homosexuals in the US have minimal power by numbers. The people Obama stands to lose are the sympathetic straight people who may not be furious like we are, but will now simply see him as a dishonorable man who's really no different from any other politician. They won't turn against him, but they will simply start to turn away from him, and trust him less and less when he promises THEM the moon.
8
#5, can you supply a few links to non white males that blog or otherwise write about Civil Equality for Gay Americans? I'd be interested to know what they say too. Surely there is a rainbow of voices out there, where are they?
9
Who is supposed to be reading and sympathizing with this?
Everyone who wasn't high on Democrat fumes (about 30 percent of the country) knew that Obama was a sham on every level possible.
A powerful Republican like a Bush or a Palin is really the gay communities best friend when it comes to protection and moderation. That's the way it's always been.
A conniver like Obama sold himself to every redneck group to get elected, and now he can't deliver on all the overdue promises!
Who is supposed to be reading and sympathizing with this?
Everyone who wasn't high on Democrat fumes (about 30 percent of the country) knew that Obama was a sham on every level possible.
A powerful Republican like a Bush or a Palin is really the gay communities best friend when it comes to protection and moderation. That's the way it's always been.
A conniver like Obama sold himself to every redneck group to get elected, and now he can't deliver on all the overdue promises!
12
Not sure about the "en masse" part. Obama's share of the LGBT vote was the about same as Kerry's in 2004 and Gore's in 2000.
13
i was beginning to think the stranger had utterly forgotten about this issue in the last hour since the previous post!
14
Has anyone else noticed that none of the posts today on the main SLOG page, other than Charles, are from other ethnic communities?
I sure have.
I sure have.
16
Gays are (maybe) 10% of the population, and probably only 30% of them vote, yet they put Obama in office? Uh-huh.
Then why didn't they defeat prop 8?
And they donate SO much money to candidates, yet scream if anyone says they have more money than other members of society.
A certain group's got a pretty exalted opinion of themselves.
Then why didn't they defeat prop 8?
And they donate SO much money to candidates, yet scream if anyone says they have more money than other members of society.
A certain group's got a pretty exalted opinion of themselves.
17
If I viewed and read everything that Dan Savage insists is "required" (and many of the videos are offered without a single shred of context), I wouldn't have any other time left in the day.
That said, it's a decent summation of the situation and probably much more illuminating that going through all of Dan's separate posts in the last few days.
That said, it's a decent summation of the situation and probably much more illuminating that going through all of Dan's separate posts in the last few days.
19
White males have valid points of view. Kinda sad that it needs to be pointed out. And Dan often links to Pam's House Blend. So #5's comment doesn't really add to the dialogue.
20
@19: if we waited for actual dialogues to take place in slog comments...
... your comment has no depth regarding the dialogue either.
... your comment has no depth regarding the dialogue either.
21
@ 5 & 8
Agreed. Pam's House Blend has some of the best commentary on the web, which Dan often links.
She'd be mighty surprised that you called her a "white male."
Agreed. Pam's House Blend has some of the best commentary on the web, which Dan often links.
She'd be mighty surprised that you called her a "white male."
22
@7 Riz, it's not like dan was a regular reader, he yelled at the guy on the tee-vee!
bilerico.com has a diverse crew
bilerico.com has a diverse crew
23
American women, hispanics, blacks, and Asians (and LGBT people as well, probably) blog at disproportionately high levels. White men blog at disproportionately low levels. Mainstream white men don't need to blog -- just turn on TV news or the radio or read a newspaper or find any other paid medium where white men do the hiring for their perspectives.
24
@ 22,
Do you work for them or something?
I oughtta sue you for the time I wasted reading that Alex Blaze post. He doesn't go into the legal mendacity or specious rationale of the DOMA brief at all, and even quotes himself!
Aravosis (and many others) pointed out each section of the DOMA brief that supported everything single thing that he wrote.
You might as well link to cat-blogging for legal analysis.
Do you work for them or something?
I oughtta sue you for the time I wasted reading that Alex Blaze post. He doesn't go into the legal mendacity or specious rationale of the DOMA brief at all, and even quotes himself!
Aravosis (and many others) pointed out each section of the DOMA brief that supported everything single thing that he wrote.
You might as well link to cat-blogging for legal analysis.
26
@5
Dan referred to Pam's House Blend yesterday, and as I recall you poo pooed the reference. The "you don't cite enough people of color" line is a pretty silly ad hominem argument.
Dan referred to Pam's House Blend yesterday, and as I recall you poo pooed the reference. The "you don't cite enough people of color" line is a pretty silly ad hominem argument.
27
This is getting old...and I'm gay. I'm not sure why the president is being raked over the coals non-stop by professional gay activists five months into his term over his supposed inaction on gay issues. Obama is not the king; he cannot decree that these gay matters be resolved. DOMA and DADT will ultimately have to be repealed by Congress. That's where the real stumbling block is.
28
Ya know, there where numerous signs during the election campaign that Obama was secretly a homophobic bigot. Remember that tour he took through South Carolina with the anti-gay preacher? Back then, as I recall, Dan suggested we should let these little insults go - for the good of the party. Well, now Obama has been elected and he continues to make these little insults to the gay community. Can any of you that follow Slog honestly say you're surprised?
29
@16 pull your head out of your ass.
10% of the population, yes, but there is lots of market research out there on the buying power of the Pink Dollar. While there's no shortage of queers working in retail and minimum wage jobs, on average gay people are more likely to have attended university and have obtained a degree. More than twice as likely to have obtained a Graduate, Professional degree, or Post Graduate (MBA, Lawyer, Dr). Gays on average have a higher disposable income and are more likely to donate/spend their money. While the economy tanks and the average person is canceling or deferring vacation plans, gay travel is showing a year over year increase. Gays are also more likely to support a business or organization that supports the gay community. Whether it's an airline, restaurant, or a politician fags are not afraid to spend their money to support a cause.
To frame it in relation to Prop 8, the budget on both sides was roughly the same in the millions Pro & Con. The money raises opposed to Prop 8 was raised from a fraction of the organizations contributing to the Pro side. Think about it. There is powerful spending in the gay community.
I'll concede it's not fair to say that Gays got Obama elected but gay money has certainly influenced many an election so don't count us out just yet.
10% of the population, yes, but there is lots of market research out there on the buying power of the Pink Dollar. While there's no shortage of queers working in retail and minimum wage jobs, on average gay people are more likely to have attended university and have obtained a degree. More than twice as likely to have obtained a Graduate, Professional degree, or Post Graduate (MBA, Lawyer, Dr). Gays on average have a higher disposable income and are more likely to donate/spend their money. While the economy tanks and the average person is canceling or deferring vacation plans, gay travel is showing a year over year increase. Gays are also more likely to support a business or organization that supports the gay community. Whether it's an airline, restaurant, or a politician fags are not afraid to spend their money to support a cause.
To frame it in relation to Prop 8, the budget on both sides was roughly the same in the millions Pro & Con. The money raises opposed to Prop 8 was raised from a fraction of the organizations contributing to the Pro side. Think about it. There is powerful spending in the gay community.
I'll concede it's not fair to say that Gays got Obama elected but gay money has certainly influenced many an election so don't count us out just yet.
30
@28
If you think Obama is "a homophobic bigot" then you're an idiot and likely have some race issues to deal with.
I recognize that looking into a politician's "heart of heart's" is a slightly futile exercise. Tinman syndrome runs deep. Still, the dude ran in left wing Ivy League intellectual circles where homophobic bigotry is rather rare. He had a non-religious upbringing, which is probably one of the strongest factors that correlates against homophobia. His Christian denomination even performs gay weddings. Finally, when he ran for the IL Senate the first time, he said he supported gay marriage.
Feel free to question Obama for not moving quickly enough on various policy issues, but questioning his motives seems rather silly and unsupported by evidence.
If you think Obama is "a homophobic bigot" then you're an idiot and likely have some race issues to deal with.
I recognize that looking into a politician's "heart of heart's" is a slightly futile exercise. Tinman syndrome runs deep. Still, the dude ran in left wing Ivy League intellectual circles where homophobic bigotry is rather rare. He had a non-religious upbringing, which is probably one of the strongest factors that correlates against homophobia. His Christian denomination even performs gay weddings. Finally, when he ran for the IL Senate the first time, he said he supported gay marriage.
Feel free to question Obama for not moving quickly enough on various policy issues, but questioning his motives seems rather silly and unsupported by evidence.
31
Clinton lost the newly Democratic-majority-led congress because he pushed too hard on traditional "liberal" issues like health care. For the new freshman Dems in congress from the swing districts, this was too much for their constituencies to bear and they switched back to Republicans and we lost the congress. Obama wants to make it to the top of the mountain, but we can't get there by going straight up the cliff - it's a winding path around and around.
A president does not rule by fiat. It's a coalition, and in the case of Health Care it's the right-leaning Dems who hold the decisive ground, just as the swing states really decide the issues that matter in an election. If Obama does not act in a way to impress the folks in those swing districts, we lose the majority in congress - it's a simple as that.
I'm sorry, but we can wait and get both healthcare and a weakening or repeal of DOMA, or push now and get neither. That is the choice. Push for weakening of DOMA now and the swing districts get freaky and it's bye-bye national healthcare, and a much longer wait on DOMA. So suck it up. We win by choosing our battles and standing together, just like the Republicans did. Grow up. We may never again get this confluence of factors (war,economy,Katrina, Palin) that gave Dems so much power. Don't fuck it up.
A president does not rule by fiat. It's a coalition, and in the case of Health Care it's the right-leaning Dems who hold the decisive ground, just as the swing states really decide the issues that matter in an election. If Obama does not act in a way to impress the folks in those swing districts, we lose the majority in congress - it's a simple as that.
I'm sorry, but we can wait and get both healthcare and a weakening or repeal of DOMA, or push now and get neither. That is the choice. Push for weakening of DOMA now and the swing districts get freaky and it's bye-bye national healthcare, and a much longer wait on DOMA. So suck it up. We win by choosing our battles and standing together, just like the Republicans did. Grow up. We may never again get this confluence of factors (war,economy,Katrina, Palin) that gave Dems so much power. Don't fuck it up.
32
Dan is a stupid fucking credulous hack, and should not believe everything he finds on Americablog. Has he even read the brief filed in the case? I doubt it. http://lawdork.wordpress.com/2009/06/17/…
33
Welcome back Likemtall @29, haven't seen you in a while.
Very good points about the value of the 'Pink Dollar'.
Marketers (in the late 80s/early 90s) identified the gay community as a prime target audience for goods and services due to, as you said, higher household incomes (more money to spend) and brand loyalty. Buying trends have proven that the 'Pink Dollar' has a stronger value than that of other sectors.
In other words, if you can get the gay community to use, endorse, or support your products, services, or party - then you can count on having a loyal and steady source of revenue.
One shouldn't discount the contributions (financial and other) that the GLBT community (and allies) have made to the Democrats. Nor should one dismiss the legitimate right of the community to complain for being misused and taken for granted.
Very good points about the value of the 'Pink Dollar'.
Marketers (in the late 80s/early 90s) identified the gay community as a prime target audience for goods and services due to, as you said, higher household incomes (more money to spend) and brand loyalty. Buying trends have proven that the 'Pink Dollar' has a stronger value than that of other sectors.
In other words, if you can get the gay community to use, endorse, or support your products, services, or party - then you can count on having a loyal and steady source of revenue.
One shouldn't discount the contributions (financial and other) that the GLBT community (and allies) have made to the Democrats. Nor should one dismiss the legitimate right of the community to complain for being misused and taken for granted.
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