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Wednesday, June 17, 2009

City LED There Be Light

Posted by Dominic Holden on Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 1:54 PM

80a8/1245270842-street_light.jpg Some folks seem to detest Mayor Greg Nickels's plan to conserve energy by replacing 40,000 streetlamps, which currently give off a warm orange-ish hue, with bright white LED fixtures. The city has been testing some of the new lamps on several blocks of Capitol Hill. “The white light looks like a grocery store aisle,” wrote The Stranger’s Anthony Hecht in the comments of my post yesterday. “Or a morgue,” replied commenter pissy mcslogbo. "They make the streets look straight out of a narc film," said margotpolo. Until a couple days ago, Seattle City Light maintained a survey on its web page for citizens to register opinions about the new lights, but, coinciding with the mayor's big announcement, that survey disappeared.

“Mostly the response has been very positive about the feeling of the light but also that the city is looking into the new technology,” says Seattle City Light spokesman Mike Eagan.

But not everyone feels so “positive,” clearly. If you want to complain (or praise) the LEDs, you can call Mike Eagan at his desk: (206) 615-1691. You can even request a 10-question survey to express your opinions about the color, brightness, etc. of the LEDs. (Christopher suggests the city could cover the bulbs with yellow glass or plastic to mellow the abrasive bluish-white glare.)

The city is currently conducting tests of the new lights—using different brands of lights, at varying levels of brightness—on nine blocks on Capitol Hill, and will begin tests in the South Park neighborhood. Some have been getting a warmer response than others, Eagan says.

“We will be looking at those lights that people subjectively prefer but also meet criteria for the amount of light they cast on the street,” Eagan says. LEDs, which are directional, cast less light pollution than the existing high-pressure-sodium bulbs, he adds. The new lights also save electricity, and they last about 12 years, three times longer than the existing bulbs, which will reduce maintenance costs. The city will pick the winning LEDs this year and begin installing them in 2010.

Photo (which is not actually an LED light) by kevindooley on Flickr.

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Comments (40) RSS

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LED's are amazing! And it will be just like Burning Man!

Posted by agentsee on June 17, 2009 at 1:55 PM

LED's are amazing! And it will be just like Burning Man!

Posted by agentsee on June 17, 2009 at 1:55 PM

Orange lights are annoying, too. People just don't like change. Switching to LEDs gradually over a few years is a complete no-brainer.

Posted by Simac on June 17, 2009 at 2:03 PM

It would be fun if each neighborhood (or at least their retail core) could cover the bulbs with a different color glass or plastic. Capitol Hill can be pink, Pioneer Square can be vintagey yellow, Lake City can be red, etc.

Posted by lizzie on June 17, 2009 at 2:03 PM

Who cares if the lights are more efficient and save the city money; they just don't make people "feel" right. Scrap 'em!. I personally think that every other streetlight should be turned off permanently. We don't need to walk from one fully lit circle of sidewalk to another with no gap in between.

Posted by Banna

on June 17, 2009 at 2:05 PM

Anthony Hecht and pissy mcslogbo don't like LED's because they cast an unflattering pallor? Give me a frakking break.

Posted by My Other Car's the Tardis on June 17, 2009 at 2:06 PM

@4: Theater gels, silicone and a dexterous hipster would be all it would take. Go for it! I'd personally like to see them all blue.

Posted by Banna

on June 17, 2009 at 2:06 PM

They made that change by my place near Volunteer Park. At first, it was a bit eerie, but that only made it cool and cinematic.

Posted by CommonKnowledge on June 17, 2009 at 2:09 PM

One vote for awesome. Money well spent, lets hope a local contractor got the money to make these things. I was so excited when i first saw them on capitol hill. Can't wait to see more. It would be awesome if these were PWM'd to change brightness at different points in the night and were intelligent enough to turn on early in the winter and shut off later in the summer. If they had an RGB LED array you could even modify the overall color of the light to make it as warm or as cold feeling as you wanted. We are already designing some LED lights (for aircraft) at my work that do this. Yay!

Posted by Andy_Squirrel on June 17, 2009 at 2:14 PM

oops i mean "turn on later in the summer"

Posted by Andy_Squirrel on June 17, 2009 at 2:15 PM

I was riding the bus through that block of Capitol Hill with the white lights and I felt like I was in Blade Runner. I may have been high. I give the LEDs to big replicant thumbs up.

Posted by skweetis on June 17, 2009 at 2:26 PM

God damn, people. Suck it up. (Not you guys above me, the referred to posters.)

Posted by STJA on June 17, 2009 at 2:27 PM

I can't believe people actually like those horrible sodium vapor lights. They have the worst color rendering ever--looking at things under sodium vapor light is like looking at thing in black & white. That's just nuts.

Posted by Eliza

on June 17, 2009 at 2:39 PM

Get high and walk from a block of old lights to the new ones. MIND BLOWN!

Posted by Sir Learnsalot

on June 17, 2009 at 2:42 PM

I don't think you can just put a coloured gel over the LEDs. Mr Golob should weigh in here, but the colour of an LED is IIRC determined strictly by the voltage drop across the diode; for a given voltage drop (which is a property of the semiconductor) you get a given frequency of light. So putting a coloured gel would, I think, result in a MASSIVE reduction in the amount of light. The reason LEDs 'look like' a colour when they're off is so you can tell them apart; I have seen clear LEDs that light up red green yellow or blue, and you can't tell'em apart 'til you apply the power.

Posted by Fe Man on June 17, 2009 at 2:45 PM

@ 15

BUT, if they're putting off white light, they are putting off the whole SPECTRUM of light. So if we filter out the colors we don't want (ROY G BIV) then we are left with the colors we want. True, it may not be as bright, but isn't that also a complaint?

Personally, I haven't even seen them, I just think 15 might be wrong.

Posted by douchus on June 17, 2009 at 2:48 PM

They will be much harder to shoot out with a BB gun.

Posted by Cochise. on June 17, 2009 at 2:50 PM

I propose we replace the streetlights planned for Capitol Hill - the LED ones - with CFL ones - and then dump the mercury that will end up going in landfills and back into the ecosystem in your yards.

After all, those LED lights are so "weak".

Want progress? Then enjoy the new LED streetlamps.

Posted by Will in Seattle

on June 17, 2009 at 2:58 PM

@16 - actually, they go off into the UV spectra a bit, but not so much the IR, so they run "cool". Not exactly ROY G BIV.

Posted by Will in Seattle

on June 17, 2009 at 3:00 PM

Thanks Will! And you didn't even insult me! Yay!

Posted by douchus on June 17, 2009 at 3:01 PM

Being green means never having to do cost-benefit analysis.

Posted by David Wright on June 17, 2009 at 3:02 PM

The science is still out on what this will do to people’s circadian rhythms. If these shine into your house, will your sleep be disrupted more so than the HPS (orange) lights? How will this affect animals that thrive at night? How will this affect people with dementia and Alzheimer’s? (current theory: negatively) Will this make people more aware at night and will it diminish night-time accidents? Will this affect night-time crimes and how? Will LEDs reduce crime, since you can be seen more clearly or increase because people may feel more awake and active under these lights?

There’s much to learn still and Seattle will be one of the guinea pigs, but at least they’re doing something to reduce energy usage. And since LED light is far more controllable than HPS, perhaps light pollution can also be controlled. It would be nice if the city included cut-offs for each light. I doubt Seattle could ever be a dark-skies city, but it would be nice to see an attempt to control the spillage.

Posted by Allyn on June 17, 2009 at 3:15 PM

Are the lights in Cal Anderson LEDs? I think they're pretty.

Posted by josh

on June 17, 2009 at 3:20 PM

I like them. They look like intense moonlight.

Posted by monkey on June 17, 2009 at 3:27 PM

Also, blue light (which you get with LED and not with HPS) increases visual acuity – for the young. For the elderly and those with cataracts, blue light may actually decrease visual acuity. This could mean more accidents involving older drivers.

I still think it’s a great idea because I hate the orange glow we get on an overcast night, but Seattle will have to be patient and forgiving. If this turns out to be a mistake, I don’t think Nickels should be blamed; at least he’s doing something.

@18 – Will, CFL does not generally perform as well in cold temperatures and the color rendering is off. However, LED can perform really well and with less energy at low temperatures with little-to-no change in color rendering. We’re not Alaska, for sure, but it still gets below CFL’s temp preference around here.

Posted by Allyn on June 17, 2009 at 3:46 PM

LED's are great. But, white is stupid unless you're trying to attract more insects.

Posted by Mahtli69 on June 17, 2009 at 3:47 PM

Is that what new headlights are made of? Because if so, I hate them. Whether I'm walking on the street or driving a car, newish car headlights blind me.

Posted by keshmeshi on June 17, 2009 at 4:02 PM

No, that's halogen, kesh. Those just suck. But the running lamps are LED.

Posted by Will in Seattle

on June 17, 2009 at 4:17 PM

Here's an idea to expand on the "visual acuity" idea: Blue/green light ruins night vision. Red/orange does not. So having "cooler" lighting means that the night vision of drivers could be decreased.

Posted by douchus on June 17, 2009 at 4:39 PM

White is a mix of three types of LED - check out GE for more info on how they make these (they sent me stuff in their annual report, plus picked up some Home Depot info too). Then confirmed it in recent scientific papers online.

Posted by Will in Seattle

on June 17, 2009 at 4:53 PM

If the lights shine into your house, and you are bothered by that, there's a wonderful invention called "drapes". You might also want to look into a really nifty thing called "shades". They're like drapes, but without all the fabric.

Posted by You wonder how people make it through the day.... on June 17, 2009 at 5:30 PM

I guess I'm officially old, because I can remember how people complained when first the pallorific mercury vapor and then the truly ghastly monochromatic sodium vapor lights went in.

Posted by Steven Bradford

on June 17, 2009 at 6:07 PM

So your solution for "fixing" new energy efficient bulbs is to make them dimmer by blocking the majority of the energy coming out of them? Thereby requiring they be turned up? Thereby defeating the purpose?

Gotcha.

(The correct solution is to get orange LEDs)

Posted by w7ngman

on June 17, 2009 at 7:04 PM

@28: The new, purplish, extra-blinding headlights on expensive cars are actually Xenon arc-discharge lamps. Same technology as a photo flash. Halogen bulbs have been in use since the 1970s and are the normal kind most people are familiar with.

Posted by Orv on June 17, 2009 at 8:06 PM

Oh, and Xenon headlights will soon be passe', at least for low beam. The really high-end luxury cars are now sporting LED headlights.

Posted by Orv on June 17, 2009 at 8:08 PM

Nickels lurves the corpse pallor. Thats all I'm saying.

Posted by pissy mcslogbot on June 17, 2009 at 9:25 PM

And Will in Seattle is still clueless! (Oh, is this Don't Be A Dick On Slog Day? Sorry, my bad)

Posted by Dr_Awesome on June 17, 2009 at 9:49 PM

Good call, margotpolo, I LOL'd!

Posted by VALLENTINE on June 18, 2009 at 2:24 AM

Guess I'm one more person who doesn't see a controversy. You can't be an environmentalist when the problem is in Tukwila and a NIMBY when it's on Cap Hill.

Progress is good. Lights are fucking lights.

Posted by BombasticMO