Slog
News & ArtsTuesday, June 16, 2009
3
Oh... There's a plan alright. It's: "Fuck em!" Or, more accurately: "Take their money and their vote, than fuck em."
6
If you want rights, demand them in person in every interaction you have with any level of business and government.
If every day 50 gay married couples demanded their rights at every hospital and every school district and every courthouse - and 50 engaged couples demanded their marriage licenses in every county in the country, the system would crumble quickly.
But you'd have to DO it.
Not just whine about it.
Nobody said it was easy.
If every day 50 gay married couples demanded their rights at every hospital and every school district and every courthouse - and 50 engaged couples demanded their marriage licenses in every county in the country, the system would crumble quickly.
But you'd have to DO it.
Not just whine about it.
Nobody said it was easy.
7
Just because you keep saying it over and over again doesn't make it true. This is Obama's plan right here:
http://www.advocate.com/exclusive_detail…
You might not think it's the best plan, but it is a plan.
You might not think it contains urgent enough deadlines, but it is a plan.
It's good to be angry and vocal and put a lot of pressure on the administration to follow through on its promises.
We can do that without being dishonest.
http://www.advocate.com/exclusive_detail…
You might not think it's the best plan, but it is a plan.
You might not think it contains urgent enough deadlines, but it is a plan.
It's good to be angry and vocal and put a lot of pressure on the administration to follow through on its promises.
We can do that without being dishonest.
9
I figured it out!! Seriously, I prayed to Jesus and he TOLD ME!!! Obama's magical plan is to encourage those people who hate gays and lesbians to continue attacking them in anyway possible (I mean what do you expect to have happen to a group who is on the same standing as pedophiles, right?). Then once the right wing Jesus loving Americans bomb a few gay night clubs, take their guns (and those guns are promised by Jesus in case you are wondering!) and kill marchers then Obama will step in. You see the body count simply isn't high enough. But let's say after a couple of million dead gays, Obama can finally step in and defend our rights.
It's just like Mike Huckabee said a few months ago, we just haven't suffered enough to be equal in the eyes of the law.
It's just like Mike Huckabee said a few months ago, we just haven't suffered enough to be equal in the eyes of the law.
10
@7
Oh! Whew! What a relief!
So where do I send my money to buy Obama that magical second term?
FAIL
Oh! Whew! What a relief!
So where do I send my money to buy Obama that magical second term?
FAIL
13
If anything, our community's massive mistake was taking Obama's words at face value during the campaign.
He lied to us, frequently and repeatedly--that's why everyone's in shock. We believed his lies because we wanted to believe him.
We need to treat the Obama Administration for what it is: openly hostile to our needs and our rights.
He lied to us, frequently and repeatedly--that's why everyone's in shock. We believed his lies because we wanted to believe him.
We need to treat the Obama Administration for what it is: openly hostile to our needs and our rights.
14
Dan, Please support the Democratic Party Boycott on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=97…
15
@13 It would be helpful to me if you could identify an example of what you consider a lie. Could you identify with specificity an LGBT issue where his position has changed since the election?
17
This is his plan of attack right now: http://www.advocate.com/exclusive_detail…
In what specific way is that different from anything he said before the campaign?
In what specific way is that different from anything he said before the campaign?
18
ugh, i mean before the election. In what specific way is the plan he is advocating now different from what he said before election day?
19
@ Kevin Erickson,
Do we have to rehash Obama's many broken promises to the GLBT community in every thread??
You're just trying to piss people off.
Do we have to rehash Obama's many broken promises to the GLBT community in every thread??
You're just trying to piss people off.
20
politicians say stuff to get elected. news flash. who would you have preferred to vote for? and do you imagine they wouldn't have told some little white lies as well?
21
So how come I'm not seeing breathless reporters on TV talking about how every day the courthouse in each county in our state is open there are 50 gay engaged couples demanding their marriage licenses?
Oh, that might require work.
never mind.
Oh, that might require work.
never mind.
22
Yes, Andrew, you DO have to support claims and accusations with fact. OH THE HUMANITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (@19)
23
Due to a slow connection, my Firefox hung for 30 seconds with "Waiting for www.ObamasPlanForGayRights.com" in the status bar. I was hoping that was the joke.
25
@19 No, I really don't want to piss anyone off. I just genuinely don't understand what you're talking about with broken promises!
I think it makes sense to argue that he should be more proactive, show more leadership, be more ambitious about getting the gay rights stuff through congress sooner, make us a more urgent legislative priority. But no one has shown me any policy position that is inconsistent with the platform he campaigned on. You say there are many. Can you show me one?
I think it makes sense to argue that he should be more proactive, show more leadership, be more ambitious about getting the gay rights stuff through congress sooner, make us a more urgent legislative priority. But no one has shown me any policy position that is inconsistent with the platform he campaigned on. You say there are many. Can you show me one?
26
Andrew, I read the posts. Where's the evidence? Do you think everyone who reads SLOG reads each entry the way you and I do? NO
Back claims up with fact for people who skim and scroll.
Back claims up with fact for people who skim and scroll.
27
Me: Obama promised us action on gay and lesbian equality on DADT, full repeal of DOMA, ending the HIV travel ban, ENDA, hate crimes, giving same sex partners full immigration rights like in every other civilized nation, but not only has he not done any of those things, his DOJ is actively working against our community in the most offensive way possible.
Obamessiah apologist: He didn't know! He does know, but the timing's not right! He has a plan for your life! You were stupid to believe what he told you over and over and over again! I'm all smug and superior because I can sit in front of my computer and tell your community that you're not doing enough to secure the rights that I already enjoy! Repent and shuddup, faggot!
Obamessiah apologist: He didn't know! He does know, but the timing's not right! He has a plan for your life! You were stupid to believe what he told you over and over and over again! I'm all smug and superior because I can sit in front of my computer and tell your community that you're not doing enough to secure the rights that I already enjoy! Repent and shuddup, faggot!
28
OK Andrew, relax. I don't think we're on the same page. My thought is that assertions that Obama is a lying, hypocritical, evil asshole should be backed up with exactly what makes him a lying, hypocritical asshole.
Not blind links to joke/jerk websites.
Not blind links to joke/jerk websites.
29
(by the O.P. -- it's not the job of commenters to sort out and complete intent in the thread of a post by an employee/owner being paid to produce)
30
@ StillNon & also Kevin Erickson,
Where's the evidence?? Jeebus, I dunno! Is it under the sofa? Did I leave it in the jeans I was wearing yesterday?!1!
Where's the evidence?? Jeebus, I dunno! Is it under the sofa? Did I leave it in the jeans I was wearing yesterday?!1!
31
Will is right.
Look, firefighters in RI got no problem creating a picket line, even a sort of fake one, resulting in Obama not showing up and taking heat from mayors and shit. And that's all over what, some $50 co pay in their health plan or some shit like that???? But for gay rights and dignity, is there a picket line at this DNC event? Nope.
Is there a picket line at every court house ?
Nope. Are people going down for marriage licenses and staging sit ins and getting arrested? Nope. Is there a big march on DC planned? Um, guess not, haven't heard a peep about one. Is there even a nationally known gay leader with the stature of say, a Jesse Jackson or an Al Sharpton? Someone who's all over major networks? Someone who explains the human dignity and the constitution and all that shit the way MLK did in 1962? Nope.
You know it might help if you disabuse yourself of the notion that there are any politicians who magically are super high idealistic persons who ride unicorns, etc., and will magically create cahange, etc., so that you can remain above the nitty gritty of politics.
Politics is about FIGHTING and now is the time to fucking fight.
Staying away from a fundraiser and threatening to hold your breath, I mean withhold your support, ain't 'zactly ***fighting for your rights.***
Will is right. And you know how it hurts me to say that.
Look, firefighters in RI got no problem creating a picket line, even a sort of fake one, resulting in Obama not showing up and taking heat from mayors and shit. And that's all over what, some $50 co pay in their health plan or some shit like that???? But for gay rights and dignity, is there a picket line at this DNC event? Nope.
Is there a picket line at every court house ?
Nope. Are people going down for marriage licenses and staging sit ins and getting arrested? Nope. Is there a big march on DC planned? Um, guess not, haven't heard a peep about one. Is there even a nationally known gay leader with the stature of say, a Jesse Jackson or an Al Sharpton? Someone who's all over major networks? Someone who explains the human dignity and the constitution and all that shit the way MLK did in 1962? Nope.
You know it might help if you disabuse yourself of the notion that there are any politicians who magically are super high idealistic persons who ride unicorns, etc., and will magically create cahange, etc., so that you can remain above the nitty gritty of politics.
Politics is about FIGHTING and now is the time to fucking fight.
Staying away from a fundraiser and threatening to hold your breath, I mean withhold your support, ain't 'zactly ***fighting for your rights.***
Will is right. And you know how it hurts me to say that.
32
@27 Andrew, you're going to need to be more specific. What kind of action did he promise, and what was the timeline for completion? Was it legislative action or judicial action? What specifically was different in the plan that was laid out by Berry in that advocate article vs what he said before the election? I'm sorry if this seems pedantic, but it matters.
(You also shouldn't assume that people insisting on honesty and accuracy in talking about Obama's positions aren't just as invested in this as you. I want my rights as much as you. I just think we're going to be more effective activists if we understand all the facts and don't resort to demagoguery.)
(You also shouldn't assume that people insisting on honesty and accuracy in talking about Obama's positions aren't just as invested in this as you. I want my rights as much as you. I just think we're going to be more effective activists if we understand all the facts and don't resort to demagoguery.)
33
@ PC,
There is a major march on DC planned for October, 2009.
It's in permitting now.
http://www.towleroad.com/2009/05/cleve-j…
There is a major march on DC planned for October, 2009.
It's in permitting now.
http://www.towleroad.com/2009/05/cleve-j…
34
Dang. Now that hurts. Having PC agree with me.
Ouch.
Look, go to the march in DC - after you start demanding your rights in person here. Think of it as the reward for your hard work.
Ouch.
Look, go to the march in DC - after you start demanding your rights in person here. Think of it as the reward for your hard work.
35
And by the by, I went to anti-war marches against the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq for years and years, and wrote countless letters and e-mails to my congresspeople, not to mention phone calls, etc.
How's that working out for us?
How's that working out for us?
37
Will and PC:
Boycotting this fundraiser aint exactly incompatible with fighting for your rights.
Are any DC fags and friends planning a demonstratino at the Mandarin Oriental?
Boycotting this fundraiser aint exactly incompatible with fighting for your rights.
Are any DC fags and friends planning a demonstratino at the Mandarin Oriental?
38
@25 "But no one has shown me any policy position that is inconsistent with the platform he campaigned on"
Quit the disingenuous hair-splitting. Policy positions on the whitehouse.gov propoganda site are irrelevant if Obama isn't putting any of them into action. Thus far Obama's complete lack of positive action, combined some tone-deaf maneuvers and a few painful jabs in the LGBT community's eye, are very strong signals that he has no intent to spend one frickin dime of political capital on us. And that is blatantly inconsistent with the platform he campaigned on, when he promised to be a "fierce advocate" for LGBT rights.
Quit the disingenuous hair-splitting. Policy positions on the whitehouse.gov propoganda site are irrelevant if Obama isn't putting any of them into action. Thus far Obama's complete lack of positive action, combined some tone-deaf maneuvers and a few painful jabs in the LGBT community's eye, are very strong signals that he has no intent to spend one frickin dime of political capital on us. And that is blatantly inconsistent with the platform he campaigned on, when he promised to be a "fierce advocate" for LGBT rights.
39
I'm agreeing with Will. There needs to be some kind of plan of action. I've sent my letters and my postcards to Obama, I've donated to Lambda Legal and various individual states, I'm talking about equality within my sphere of influence, and now what? I'm a clueless straight supporter and I don't know how to be of more help.
40
@ 37,
Actually, it's more effective because the only thing the politicians give a shit about it money.
Here's David Mixner:
http://www.davidmixner.com/2009/06/a-per…
Actually, it's more effective because the only thing the politicians give a shit about it money.
Here's David Mixner:
I will not attend a fundraiser for the National Democratic Party in Washington next week when the current administration is responsible for these kind of actions. How will they ever take us seriously if we keep forking out money while they harm us. For now on, my money is going to battles within the community such as the fight in Maine or the March on Washington! I am so tired of being told by Democratic operatives to 'suck it up' because so many other profound issues are at stake. It is as if our fight for our freedom is single handedly responsible for the fate of all other issues. Bullshit. Maybe, just maybe, it is time for others to 'suck it up' for us and finally, without conditions, join our fight for our freedom!
http://www.davidmixner.com/2009/06/a-per…
41
@32 Kevin, its really quite simple. He said he'd end DADT, but he's allowing it to continue even though he has the power to stop it. He said he'd oppose DOMA when he's actively endorsing it. He said he favors lifting the HIV travel ban and yet he's done nothing. He said he was fierce advocate for LGBT folks, but he's been conspicuously silent on all LGBT issues, especially on marriage rights which appears to be the most significant civil rights issue of our generation. Meanwhile, he's lifted the global gag rule and ended the stem cell research ban - which are opposed with equal ferocity by the extreme right. As much as I hate to admit it, there's no way to avoid facing the truth - Obama doesn't care about gay people.
42
@41 But, did he say he would end DADT with an executive order? No, he never did. He said it needed to be ended legislatively to be permanent. You might disagree with the tactic of using the legislature, but his position is precisely the same as before the election. So the problem isn't that he lied, but that you never agreed with his position.
Did he say he would help to overturn DOMA in the courts? No, he said he'd get it done in the legislature. (it wouldn't be likely in the courts right now anyway, because of the current supreme court; an unfavorable ruling could actually be a huge setback to equality) His position is the same as before the election. So again, your problem isn't that he lied, but that you never agreed with his position.
Did he say he would help to overturn DOMA in the courts? No, he said he'd get it done in the legislature. (it wouldn't be likely in the courts right now anyway, because of the current supreme court; an unfavorable ruling could actually be a huge setback to equality) His position is the same as before the election. So again, your problem isn't that he lied, but that you never agreed with his position.
43
Now, there are arguments to be had about whether legislative responses to these issues leave us in a better long-term position for the advancements of gay rights and a comprehensive progressive agenda. Heck, I think your comparison to the global gag rule is a salient point re: DADT.
But it's just wrong to say that Obama's position and goals and tactics haven't matched his campaign statements on LGBT issues. He's proceeding exactly as he said he would.
Is it moving too slow? Of course it is. Anything short of us having our rights right now is too fucking slow. So yes, let's pressure Reid & Pelosi, and let's pressure Obama to show some leadership. Let's get loud and noisy.
On the issue of federal marriage rights, as current laws leave the issue up to the states, the only way to make national gay marriage happen overnight would be a strong progressive supreme court. And he's doing a good job building a progressive supreme court so far, right?
But it's just wrong to say that Obama's position and goals and tactics haven't matched his campaign statements on LGBT issues. He's proceeding exactly as he said he would.
Is it moving too slow? Of course it is. Anything short of us having our rights right now is too fucking slow. So yes, let's pressure Reid & Pelosi, and let's pressure Obama to show some leadership. Let's get loud and noisy.
On the issue of federal marriage rights, as current laws leave the issue up to the states, the only way to make national gay marriage happen overnight would be a strong progressive supreme court. And he's doing a good job building a progressive supreme court so far, right?
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