Slog
News & ArtsMonday, June 15, 2009
Religion There Is No Morality Without Religion
Posted by Dan Savage on Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 8:32 AM
A church music director was charged today with crossing state lines to have sex with minors. David Zobel, 32, of Ann Arbor was arrested by the FBI today and charged in federal court in Ohio with performing sex acts with two girls ages 12 and 13, the FBI said in a news release.Zobel, a former pianist with the University of Michigan Men's Glee Club who is listed on the glee club's Web site as chorus master and music director at St. Luke's Episcopal Church in Ypsilanti, could not be reached for comment.
2
Will these dumb shits never learn? It's bad enough to fuck around with a minor, but Jesus, people, don't fucking cross state lines to do it. Stupid stupid stupid.
3
I for one have never been convinced that morality and religion are connected. I've always that one's concscience was the basis of one's morality. That isn't to say that religion or faith can't bolster one's conscience, and provide one with a guideline to encourage and understand why listening to one's conscience is important. Religion/faith has many benefits and serves as a source of comfort, encouragement, community amongst fellow believers, ourtreach, a mirror in which to evaluate oneself, personal communion with God, gods, etc., and it can provide answers to personal struggles, but it isn't our conscience. That's my $.02.
8
Music directors are often just employees of churches, not really members. Many of my music major friends took jobs at these places. They pretty much just bull their way through the religion part of it. They don't, however, have sex with children.
10
Wow from the same town as me and same first name. Glad I'm not some jesus freak who likes to diddle preteens, though.
11
Isn't it better (for them) that they cross state lines? Federal prisons are generally nicer facilities than state prisons. I'd say the line not to be crossed would be the aged-18 line...
12
I was just thinking about mankind's conundrum between his instincts and his creation, civilisation.
13
It would be fun to see how many homo's get arrested on a daily basis for crimes like public indecency, sex in parks and even sex with kids.
Dan goes in search of the church bozos all the time, but given the rather small percentage of gays in society vs the number of public drunk/sex/abuse they are charged with, I would imagine they run neck and neck with the religious nutties.
Just a guess.
Dan goes in search of the church bozos all the time, but given the rather small percentage of gays in society vs the number of public drunk/sex/abuse they are charged with, I would imagine they run neck and neck with the religious nutties.
Just a guess.
14
13, Sure there are gay people who do wrong, just like in any other group, but gay people don't claim to be the arbiters of morality like church folks do.
15
14
wow rob
I wouldn't have thought it was possible o think any less of you-
until you posted the picture
wow rob
I wouldn't have thought it was possible o think any less of you-
until you posted the picture
16
I tend to mission when amongst the atheist circles to remind them that humanism, the ideal that we base morality on reason (i.e start with the ethic of reciprocity and extrapolate from there) is part of the neo-atheist culture, and not only holds contrast to the common belief by theists that atheists have no morality, but may even prove a superior ethical foundation in that we cull, by critical consideration, those ethics that are outdated or misapplied.
The faithful often maintain they hold the moral high-ground because they believe their morality is founded on sacred scripture that is not checked by human judgment. Atheists maintain religious morality is, in fact, weaker for precisely the same reason.
The faithful often maintain they hold the moral high-ground because they believe their morality is founded on sacred scripture that is not checked by human judgment. Atheists maintain religious morality is, in fact, weaker for precisely the same reason.
17
Music "ministers" in churches are generally not religious sorts. They're musicians looking for work and churches pay, just like the guy who vacuums the church or mows the lawns isn't a "lawn preacher." Churches would like to think otherwise, and there are exceptions, but when it comes to church music directors, you're just dealing with some guy and the church connection isn't as relevant. I'm dismayed to see a connection between a musician and this kind of predatory behavior though, as a musician.
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