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News & ArtsSaturday, June 13, 2009
News Meanwhile in Iran
Posted by Dan Savage on Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 12:35 PM
Another revolution?
Tonight riot police in Tehran faced thousands of angry demonstrators shouting "death to dictatorship" amid shock and confusion after the official result backed Ahmadinejad's claim to have won, made barely an hour after the polls closed on Friday night.The moderate Mir Hossein Mousavi, who had been widely expected to beat the controversial incumbent if there was a high turnout—or at least do well enough to trigger a second round—insisted he was the victor and appealed against the result to Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, Iran's supreme leader. "I personally strongly protest the many obvious violations and I'm warning I will not surrender to this dangerous charade," said Mousavi, a former prime minister. "The result will jeopardise the pillars of the Islamic republic and establish tyranny."
1
The numerous Iranians I have known and worked with in the U.S. have been (if one can generalize) delightful and interesting, though somewhat intense (opinionated, perfectionist, and demanding of themselves and others). Most ache for the current status of their country.
I would like to see things settle down there so they can travel back and forth with less anxiety, and I would love to visit someday. The culture is fascinating, very distinct from the Arab world, and the country, at least as seen in the coffee-table books my friends have shared, is varied and spectacular.
I would like to see things settle down there so they can travel back and forth with less anxiety, and I would love to visit someday. The culture is fascinating, very distinct from the Arab world, and the country, at least as seen in the coffee-table books my friends have shared, is varied and spectacular.
3
Allegedly Mir Hossein Mousavi is under house arrest by the Ayatollahs and outside communication has been shut down.
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/th…
http://shooresh1917.blogspot.com/2009/06…
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/th…
http://shooresh1917.blogspot.com/2009/06…
4
So I guess a landslide in Iran provokes rioting and protest, but a virtual tie in the US TWICE IN A ROW doesn't cause anything other than a whimper.
Go Iranians! You guys have more gumption than we do!
Go Iranians! You guys have more gumption than we do!
5
I am struck by how young many of the protestors are. Obviously these are people who were too young to recall the revolution or were born after, so they have a different perspective on things.
Jim Sciutto of ABC news reported that the police have confiscated their camera and tapes, so they are shooting things via cellphones.
Jim Sciutto of ABC news reported that the police have confiscated their camera and tapes, so they are shooting things via cellphones.
6
The old war between Iran and Iraq featured some ruthless scary tactics. Iraq used US manufactured chemical weapons. Iran would send children marching over minefields to clear them.
Not enough of those children perished by the mines, and during the Bush administration, they became teens, started demanding their MTV and Sony Playstations, and the old guard Iranian admin was completely out of touch with this massive rock-and-roll hungry demographic. They even conceded one-day temporary marriages so that young boys and girls could get it on without violating Sharia law.
Bush's axis of evil description was equally out of touch, since Iran was (maybe still is) a westernizing nation who will give up its fundamentalist tendencies for XBoxes and some basic secular comforts. On the other hand their administration knows, like the US conservatives did then, that their nation is slipping from the traditional values they hold dear, and might still decide to throw the nation into war to save it.
Well, now that massive youthful demographic is likely Iran's version of Berkeley hippie college kids, so it wouldn't be surprising if a) they'd demonstrate, or even revolt against the reelection of the Nazi-prince, or b) that their gripe was legit, that they were a strong enough voting bloc to kick Mahmoud Ahmadinejad out, and the election was somehow rigged.
Ahmadinejad is still refining fissile fuel for nukes, right?
Not enough of those children perished by the mines, and during the Bush administration, they became teens, started demanding their MTV and Sony Playstations, and the old guard Iranian admin was completely out of touch with this massive rock-and-roll hungry demographic. They even conceded one-day temporary marriages so that young boys and girls could get it on without violating Sharia law.
Bush's axis of evil description was equally out of touch, since Iran was (maybe still is) a westernizing nation who will give up its fundamentalist tendencies for XBoxes and some basic secular comforts. On the other hand their administration knows, like the US conservatives did then, that their nation is slipping from the traditional values they hold dear, and might still decide to throw the nation into war to save it.
Well, now that massive youthful demographic is likely Iran's version of Berkeley hippie college kids, so it wouldn't be surprising if a) they'd demonstrate, or even revolt against the reelection of the Nazi-prince, or b) that their gripe was legit, that they were a strong enough voting bloc to kick Mahmoud Ahmadinejad out, and the election was somehow rigged.
Ahmadinejad is still refining fissile fuel for nukes, right?
7
Everything like facebook, myspace, social networking, cell phones, pro-Mousavi websites are being blocked. Photos are coming in from Tumblr and Flickr and riot updates are being posted on Twitter, but unless there's a real revolution and Ahmadinejad is kicked out of power I have a feeling the Iranian government is going to bury this like the Chinese did Tianamen Square.
8
Nope,. they won't.
The nation will become ungovernable and the bad guy will step down.
We'll see Obama giving a speech in Tehran withing a year or two.
The Iranians are like the proudest people on the face of the earth and they ain't gonna let a little dweeb rule them any more.
We've also weakened Iraq as a power enough that Iran has the "space" to go thru domestic turmoil. There's no danger of invasion from Iraq right now.
they can't control Iranians they way they could control Chinese in communistic china 20 years ago.
The troops won't fire on the people.
Just a hunch. Not reasoned or provable. And btw I know very little about Iran. But the ones I do know, shit, they don't take shit or bow down. They look down their noses at us, actually, and believe that they came THAT CLOSE to taking over Greece and capturing all of western civ just a few years ago.....they have the healthiest self esteem of any national group.
The nation will become ungovernable and the bad guy will step down.
We'll see Obama giving a speech in Tehran withing a year or two.
The Iranians are like the proudest people on the face of the earth and they ain't gonna let a little dweeb rule them any more.
We've also weakened Iraq as a power enough that Iran has the "space" to go thru domestic turmoil. There's no danger of invasion from Iraq right now.
they can't control Iranians they way they could control Chinese in communistic china 20 years ago.
The troops won't fire on the people.
Just a hunch. Not reasoned or provable. And btw I know very little about Iran. But the ones I do know, shit, they don't take shit or bow down. They look down their noses at us, actually, and believe that they came THAT CLOSE to taking over Greece and capturing all of western civ just a few years ago.....they have the healthiest self esteem of any national group.
9
Theocracy will now turn to what they do best; prisons and disappearances. There will not be a revolution. Not today.
10
@8, agree with the assessment in your last ¶. There is enormous pride in Persian (their preferred adjective) culture and accomplishments in science, literature, etc. stretching back thousands of years. They do feel superior to westerners but take pains to not let that attitude show under ordinary circumstances (i.e., through long acquaintance, occasional intoxication, or both, some glimmers will slip through). Many of those living in North America escaped during or shortly after the Islamic revolution and have or had significant wealth; they tend to be secular though very traditional in family life (daughters are tightly controlled and marriages are still often arranged). They tend to have a very cosmopolitan worldview, having often spent time in France or England before emigrating to N. America. They share cultural ties and a similar language with the Kurds.
Maybe the politics will play out according to your hunch. It seems the best that can be hoped for.
On a trivial level, good Persian food is delicious. I don't know what's available in Seattle since I don't live there, but try it if you get the chance. Ask your server for recommendations.
Maybe the politics will play out according to your hunch. It seems the best that can be hoped for.
On a trivial level, good Persian food is delicious. I don't know what's available in Seattle since I don't live there, but try it if you get the chance. Ask your server for recommendations.
12
Were Mousavi and the kids there able to grab their facebook username urls before access was blocked?
14
@5 - Something like 70% of Iran's population is under the age of 30.
I feel really bad for the people of Iran today. It must be like if you took the excitement of the 2008 elections, throw Ahmadinejad into the picture, and then add in the 2000 Florida shenanigans times 50.
I feel really bad for the people of Iran today. It must be like if you took the excitement of the 2008 elections, throw Ahmadinejad into the picture, and then add in the 2000 Florida shenanigans times 50.
15
Oh man, I hope Mousavi is allowed to take his rightful position in Iran's new government and I worry for the safety of Mousavi activist organizers during this shaky time.
18
The following thought dawned on me a few minutes ago. Recall Obama's speech and how he basically apologized for the US's CIA operative movement to overthrow the Iranian Shah in the 50s? Well, if there is a revolution in Iran after today, then we really didn't have a hand in it. I think Obama's speech, outreach towards the Iranians (remember that greeting he gave in Farsi for some Iranian Holiday? If not, it's on youtube), and Obama's favorable rating in the Middle East are causing Iranians to see that their crazy leader is really out of touch and should be working with the US so that one day Iran isn't bombed by Israel or the US. I also think that 25-30 years of Iranian emigration from Iran to other parts of the world, has shaped Iran's 18-35 y.os to the point that they're sick of being exiled from the world and want someone to help them be part of the new world order rather than be stuck in the past 30 years.
19
@18 no kidding. American Taliban & regular Taliban have quietly hoodwinked us all. Montagues and Capulets, ostensibly despising one another while being cut from the same cloth and needing one another to keep the game going.
20
God, that looks gay.
My Iranian college dorm mates, who taught me to cook, would probably kill me for saying that. On the other hand, they were all male too.
They have also repeatedly stated, for too many years now, that Iran's people want more participation in the world economy. There's your hook.
My Iranian college dorm mates, who taught me to cook, would probably kill me for saying that. On the other hand, they were all male too.
They have also repeatedly stated, for too many years now, that Iran's people want more participation in the world economy. There's your hook.
21
@ 10 "they tend to be secular though very traditional in family life (daughters are tightly controlled and marriages are still often arranged)"
Maybe just because I'm female, but that doesn't sound very progressive to me.
Maybe just because I'm female, but that doesn't sound very progressive to me.
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