Wednesday, June 10, 2009
Homo Meanwhile in Idaho
Posted by Dan Savage on Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 8:52 AM
Management at an Idaho pool takes a stand for traditional families... by discriminating against a non-traditional family.
A same-sex couple and their three foster children were denied a reduced admission price to a pool in eastern Idaho because the Lava Hot Springs State Foundation says the five don't fit the definition of a family.Amber Koger and Jeri Underwood say they and their three children were recently denied the resort's advertised family admission price to the Olympic Swimming Complex at Lava Hot Springs.
"What made me mad is that their definition leaves out a lot of families," Koger told the Idaho State Journal. "What you're saying is that because we're gay, we're not a family."
The director of the Lava Hot Springs foundation, Mark Lowe, says that he had no choice: the state of Idaho doesn't recognize gay or lesbian marriage and defines a family as one male, one female and children. "We are a state agency bound by all the laws of the state of Idaho," Lowe told the Associated Press. He's got a point. And none of this would even be an issue if someone didn't give these two women three children to look after and create a pseudo "family" that isn't recognized in Idaho. Who gave these two women these kids anyway?
Koger is the aunt of 11-year-old Makayla, 9-year-old Kolton and 5-year-old Ricky. Their parents divorced and Koger and Underwood were awarded custody after the Idaho Department of Health and Welfare became involved.
Oh.
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2
So, according to their deffinition of Family, a widower woman and her children are not a Family? A single woman with children is not a family?
5
Not only is it outrageous for the existence of the policy, but it's outrageous that the person selling admissions did not immediately back down! Who could stand there and say that to their faces in front of their children? Fuuuuuuuck.
7
Some places have dads get in for free on Father's Day which I really want to test to see if they let both parents in free.
8
As others have said, it's Idaho. While not right, that place is one of the least tolerant areas outside of the south. I mean, they have the Aryan Nation there..or at least they have that huge white supremacists camp. *shudder*
Also, Idaho? No, you da ho. (I am five)
Also, Idaho? No, you da ho. (I am five)
9
If gays can't get the discount because they're not legally married in idaho, do they give family discounts to unmarried straight couples with kids?
Every time I try to comprehend these peoples conception of a "family" or "marriage" it makes my head hurt.
Every time I try to comprehend these peoples conception of a "family" or "marriage" it makes my head hurt.
10
I agree with @5, but because it would have cost peanuts for this park to give them a family pass, whereas now I'm sure they'll get hammered by angry people boycotting them.
Someone there needs to learn customer service skills and how to successfully run a business.
Someone there needs to learn customer service skills and how to successfully run a business.
11
It's like they're defending their tribe. It's tribal. These redneck tyrants feel that accepting gay marriage is like merging the redneck tribe into the city-slicker tribe. That's why they feel that the institution of marriage needs protecting - what they are really protecting is their group identity and lack of strength as individuals.
12
The thing that's starting to piss me off the most about all this bigotry is how much it's hurting the kids of these families. Kids need loving, involved parents. Who the fuck cares if they're gay or straight? What is wrong with all these hateful people? How have they gotten their priorities so messed up?
13
@5: Seriously. Not classy.
I don't think any of the "family" discounts I've ever heard of have taken the "family" part very seriously. They usually define "family" as X number of adults and X number of children under a certain age.
My friend had a museum membership for two adults and four "children" (under 19). We showed up as three teenagers and after checking our IDs for age verification, they let us in with no fuss.
I don't think any of the "family" discounts I've ever heard of have taken the "family" part very seriously. They usually define "family" as X number of adults and X number of children under a certain age.
My friend had a museum membership for two adults and four "children" (under 19). We showed up as three teenagers and after checking our IDs for age verification, they let us in with no fuss.
16
Can you really blame them? I heard you can catch the gay from swimming in the same pool as a person with gay.
17
@16: Yea, plus we all know (thanks to NOM) that if the pool gave a gay family a family pass the other children would be confused. Think of the children, damn you! Well, not the children with gay parents, they're second class citizens too.
18
Good mormon families taking a dip in the swimming hole don't want to be forced to watch a different kind of family acting totally normal at the swimming hole... like them.
19
@13. I know! My family and I have never been asked to provide any sort of "proof" that we qualify as a family!
All that stuff - the "kids eat free" and "kids fly free" and "kids stay free" and "free admission for kids" - the only rule is that the kid has to be accompanied by an adult. (And maybe there's a limit to the number of kids that can get free stuff). HOW is this any different from getting the "family discount" for admission anywhere?
Here's one for you - I took four girls to Skate King and the girl at the desk gave me the family rate automatically. I said to her, "But they're not all mine." And she said, "Oh it doesn't matter - the family rate includes up to four kids." And yes, I was the only adult. (@2).
This is just awful.
All that stuff - the "kids eat free" and "kids fly free" and "kids stay free" and "free admission for kids" - the only rule is that the kid has to be accompanied by an adult. (And maybe there's a limit to the number of kids that can get free stuff). HOW is this any different from getting the "family discount" for admission anywhere?
Here's one for you - I took four girls to Skate King and the girl at the desk gave me the family rate automatically. I said to her, "But they're not all mine." And she said, "Oh it doesn't matter - the family rate includes up to four kids." And yes, I was the only adult. (@2).
This is just awful.
20
@2: My thoughts exactly.
THis isn't a case of them not qualifying as a family, it's a case of discrimination against same-sex couples.
THis isn't a case of them not qualifying as a family, it's a case of discrimination against same-sex couples.
21
The law states "one man, one woman, and children" - so, if they only have one child, I guess they can't get the discounted rate either. Perhaps they're promoting procreation by using the plural versus the correct term which is . . . child(ren, meaning either child or children. I'm just saying . . .
22
I emailed the Lava Hot Springs and got this reply:
"The legal guardian and the children received the family discount. Her unmarried partner was not included in this and paid separately in accordance with attached policy. Poor reporting on the part of the Idaho State Journal."
Here's the relevant bit from the policy, which still would seem to say that everyone should get the discount: "...Parents are defined as those adults who are either legally obligated to the care of the dependant children or are married to the adult who is the parent of the dependant children. Single parents and their children are eligible for the discount. Adults who are raising their siblings are eligible for the discount."
I sent the guy a flaming rant and he replied graciously. Just sayin'.
"The legal guardian and the children received the family discount. Her unmarried partner was not included in this and paid separately in accordance with attached policy. Poor reporting on the part of the Idaho State Journal."
Here's the relevant bit from the policy, which still would seem to say that everyone should get the discount: "...Parents are defined as those adults who are either legally obligated to the care of the dependant children or are married to the adult who is the parent of the dependant children. Single parents and their children are eligible for the discount. Adults who are raising their siblings are eligible for the discount."
I sent the guy a flaming rant and he replied graciously. Just sayin'.
23
This is not a redneck problem it is a Mormon problem. Southeast Idaho is Mormon country and the state legislature is an arm of the Mormon church.
It was common place in Idaho for state and local government agencies to discriminate against gays based on the anti-sodomy laws before the supreme court overturned them.
Now they have a new law to use in justifying discrimination. Anti gay marriage laws are just a thinly veiled excuse for active discrimination.
It was common place in Idaho for state and local government agencies to discriminate against gays based on the anti-sodomy laws before the supreme court overturned them.
Now they have a new law to use in justifying discrimination. Anti gay marriage laws are just a thinly veiled excuse for active discrimination.
24
18
ah.
mormons.
mormons are the 'Godwin Nazis' of slog.
how many posts does it take before mormons are brought up and blamed?
on slog, not many.
ah.
mormons.
mormons are the 'Godwin Nazis' of slog.
how many posts does it take before mormons are brought up and blamed?
on slog, not many.
25
that's very good news rubus @22. thanks for the follow-up!
of course now it turns to "but the partner should have been included as a member of the family" - (which is certainly true and I can't believe anyone would argue with the couple at the front desk if it came to that) - but I am glad to know that this story is not as over the top as it appeared.
of course now it turns to "but the partner should have been included as a member of the family" - (which is certainly true and I can't believe anyone would argue with the couple at the front desk if it came to that) - but I am glad to know that this story is not as over the top as it appeared.
26
Email Lava Hot Springs yourself, graciously.
I informed them that I would not be bringing my business to them this summer, and would encourage others to do the same.
Mark.Lowe@lhs.idaho.gov
I informed them that I would not be bringing my business to them this summer, and would encourage others to do the same.
Mark.Lowe@lhs.idaho.gov
27
@8, the Aryan Nations compound in Hayden Lake was closed down many years ago, but yes, there are still plenty of separatist groups in North Idaho. Southern Idaho is a much different culture, more or less like Utah.
Keep in mind this is a state that still has a fornication law, which is occasionally enforced and many hope to see enforced more regularly against teens.
http://www.idahovaluesalliance.com/news.…
Finally, what if the children in the pool saw a family with gay parents acting normal and having fun? Then children would think it is normal and acceptable to be gay instead of the impression they get from news coverage featuring gratuitous shots of bare asses in chaps from the Folsom Street Fair.
Keep in mind this is a state that still has a fornication law, which is occasionally enforced and many hope to see enforced more regularly against teens.
http://www.idahovaluesalliance.com/news.…
Finally, what if the children in the pool saw a family with gay parents acting normal and having fun? Then children would think it is normal and acceptable to be gay instead of the impression they get from news coverage featuring gratuitous shots of bare asses in chaps from the Folsom Street Fair.
28
This is IDAHO, after all.
Everyone in IDAHO is a bigot.
EVERYONE.
Every last one of them.
Of course, I've never been to IDAHO.
But I know that every single person in IDAHO is a BIGOT.
I know this.
Because I am a
hip
open-minded
tolerant
Liberal
Seattle hipster.
Everyone in IDAHO is a bigot.
EVERYONE.
Every last one of them.
Of course, I've never been to IDAHO.
But I know that every single person in IDAHO is a BIGOT.
I know this.
Because I am a
hip
open-minded
tolerant
Liberal
Seattle hipster.
29
6
That's a great idea, Dan...
let's boycott IDAHO!
We've already brought Utah to it's knees,
after all-
That's a great idea, Dan...
let's boycott IDAHO!
We've already brought Utah to it's knees,
after all-
30
I don't get how the anti-marriage law binds a pool, even a state-sponsored pool, from giving a discount to a gay family. If they're bound by the state law, doesn't that only mean that the pool can't give them a marriage license? He can still give them a fucking discount. What a chickenshit; if you're gonna be a bigot, fucking own up to it.
31
There are more white separatists in Washington than there are in Idaho.
We're going to be reading a lot of these stories in coming years, as bigots, who believe they have the full backing of their society and government behind them, discover that they are actually flailing alone in mid-air like Wile E. Coyote after running off a cliff.
You almost can't blame the poor guy; he doesn't have the capacity to understand what's happening in his world. He's like the yokel from the sticks who comes into town for the first time, but doesn't know there's no parking from 4-6 PM on this street. By rights, we should really be feeling sorry for him. The two women and their kids don't get to swim at a discount, which is too bad, but the pool guy doesn't get to live in the real world, which is much, much worse.
We're going to be reading a lot of these stories in coming years, as bigots, who believe they have the full backing of their society and government behind them, discover that they are actually flailing alone in mid-air like Wile E. Coyote after running off a cliff.
You almost can't blame the poor guy; he doesn't have the capacity to understand what's happening in his world. He's like the yokel from the sticks who comes into town for the first time, but doesn't know there's no parking from 4-6 PM on this street. By rights, we should really be feeling sorry for him. The two women and their kids don't get to swim at a discount, which is too bad, but the pool guy doesn't get to live in the real world, which is much, much worse.
32
28- I am from Idaho. Everyone back to my great great grandparents are from Idaho and it is not a gay friendly place. Historically it is a place where what you do on your property is your own business. in that sense it is very open minded. that is why some cultist groups have prospered there. The Aryan nation did not represent the common feelings of every day Idahoans but rather the idea that you can do what every you want on your compound.
The result of this is the success of the Mormon church in Idaho. The people of Idaho did not like them any more than the several states that ran them out before that were forced to go so far west. Once in Idaho they found a tolerance people who did not care for them but also did not care what they did on their own property.
Years passed an the Mormons become successful and prosperous and took control of state government. The laws of Idaho enforce the ideology of Mormonism and those laws are used to oppress homosexuals.
While it is true that not all Idahoans are bigots. it is true that the state is hostile to gays and the law enforces that hostility.
The result of this is the success of the Mormon church in Idaho. The people of Idaho did not like them any more than the several states that ran them out before that were forced to go so far west. Once in Idaho they found a tolerance people who did not care for them but also did not care what they did on their own property.
Years passed an the Mormons become successful and prosperous and took control of state government. The laws of Idaho enforce the ideology of Mormonism and those laws are used to oppress homosexuals.
While it is true that not all Idahoans are bigots. it is true that the state is hostile to gays and the law enforces that hostility.
33
I just realized that this is my cousin you are all talking about. That aside: REALLY? Are there not bigger problems in our society to worry about? Three kids are loved by two adults. Give them a freakin' family pass!!! There are kids out there who would give anything to have ONE person give them undivided attention, let alone two people! Get over yourself. Get over your definitions. Life is far too short.
34
@30 I am in Idaho and from Idaho, but just recently moved back after being in Seattle/Portland for about 8 years. It's a trip. As I understand, the Idaho state law defines marriage as beign between a man and a woman, but the definition of marriage has no bearing here. Idaho law does not define a family...but they defined it enough to grant them foster care. Mark Lowe is a big ooops oooooooooops eeee oooooops oh oooops!!! He messed up bigtime, but like some point out (@31) he does not even get it.
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