Monday, June 8, 2009
Science Gang Membership: Genetic?
Posted by Bethany Jean Clement on Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 1:21 PM
Maybe so:
"Warrior Gene" Linked To Gang Membership, Weapon Use
Interestingly, "Girls with the same variant of the... gene seem resistant to its potentially violent effects..."
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3
Genetic? No.
It's the interaction of genotype and environment that produces the phenotype - the actual physical expression of the gene(s).
Genetics plus poverty plus cultural disempowerment equals gang membership... that I could buy.
It's the interaction of genotype and environment that produces the phenotype - the actual physical expression of the gene(s).
Genetics plus poverty plus cultural disempowerment equals gang membership... that I could buy.
5
@3 right until we had capitalism and gangs there was absolutely no violence among human beings and absolutely no Darwinistic advantage in like using weapons or fighting and stuff? And of course we all sat down to eat with the sabertooth tigers and lions and bears
oh and we were all vegan too.
oh and we were all vegan too.
6
We used to have armies that didn't care if you were gay, a lowlife, or uneducated for people like this to join. Oh, yeah, we've also had gangs for a very long time for those truly disenfranchised from their surrounding culture. Then again, may be it's more natural for us to fight each other, look at wolves, chimps, and many other species.
7
@5
I think perhaps you are applying what I said overbroadly.
If you re-read my comment, perhaps several times, you will come to realize that your point - via sarcasm - is the same as mine. Here are some things to look for in your comparison: adverse environmental conditions, human genetic predispositions contingent on environmental conditions, and your mom.
No, wait, sorry. Your mom's right here, ball gag and all. Look for the others in my comment, though. You might also consider some education in the subjects of ecology and genetics.
I think perhaps you are applying what I said overbroadly.
If you re-read my comment, perhaps several times, you will come to realize that your point - via sarcasm - is the same as mine. Here are some things to look for in your comparison: adverse environmental conditions, human genetic predispositions contingent on environmental conditions, and your mom.
No, wait, sorry. Your mom's right here, ball gag and all. Look for the others in my comment, though. You might also consider some education in the subjects of ecology and genetics.
8
Look, we have a long history evolving. Many adaptations have kept us surviving. We shouldn't be surprised that these are in our genes. Behavior is rooted in survival. And many other animals use groups or gangs as a method of survival. We become obsessed with oppressing what are natural behaviors because they don't comform to our sensibilties.
9
"Girls with the same variant of the... gene seem resistant to its potentially violent effects..."
In other words, in half our subjects there was no correlation between this gene and violence/aggression. But we're gonna go ahead and spin that as an interesting sociological followup to our finding, and not as a blatant refutation of any claim to have found a "warrior gene".
In other words, in half our subjects there was no correlation between this gene and violence/aggression. But we're gonna go ahead and spin that as an interesting sociological followup to our finding, and not as a blatant refutation of any claim to have found a "warrior gene".
10
Actually, genetic sequences exist on two strands - some which are sex linked are only one strand for males.
The environment - diet, stress, infections, etc - just activates the siRNA, mRNA, miRNA and all the other fun bits to give you a slight variant - but the perpetuating DNA passed on through children is not normally impacted.
Diet and exercise and stress probably have way more to do with this than "genetics".
Which, if we read the actual underlying paper, we'd find out, not to mention the sample sizes normally don't support the inferences the media tend to use - I could look at a multivariate study with say 600 subjects and say certain things may be true, but deep questions like this we could only say might be true - and would need a further study focussed on this question to get a real answer.
The media tends not to like the fuzziness of the answer, so they say A is True when actually the science says A may be true if B and C not D where E exists - but needs greater statistical power to give a better answer.
The environment - diet, stress, infections, etc - just activates the siRNA, mRNA, miRNA and all the other fun bits to give you a slight variant - but the perpetuating DNA passed on through children is not normally impacted.
Diet and exercise and stress probably have way more to do with this than "genetics".
Which, if we read the actual underlying paper, we'd find out, not to mention the sample sizes normally don't support the inferences the media tend to use - I could look at a multivariate study with say 600 subjects and say certain things may be true, but deep questions like this we could only say might be true - and would need a further study focussed on this question to get a real answer.
The media tends not to like the fuzziness of the answer, so they say A is True when actually the science says A may be true if B and C not D where E exists - but needs greater statistical power to give a better answer.
11
Or maybe what assists survival in the wild doesn't work too well in civilized society. What is your problem?
We become obsessed with oppressing what are natural behaviors because they don't comform to our sensibilties.
Or maybe what assists survival in the wild doesn't work too well in civilized society. What is your problem?
13
What's the frequency of the genetic profile in cops? Army generals? Pro athletes? General population rage heads?
The study seems to promote the notion that young, male, non-white = will shank you as soon as look at you.
The study seems to promote the notion that young, male, non-white = will shank you as soon as look at you.
14
Ooh, "Warrior Gene", love that -- be sure to get that in the headline! Because you wouldn't want to call it the "Wingnut Gene" or anything.
15
@13 - depends, are we measuring the genes or the activated proteins and other resultant materials?
I think if we looked at a family which had cops or military in much of its lineage, we might notice a higher portion, though.
I think if we looked at a family which had cops or military in much of its lineage, we might notice a higher portion, though.
17
This sounds like something the Bush administration would dream up to bring back the draft (for poor people only). "It's in their DNA to kill, we're providing structure and discipline so they can put their natural talents to work".
Either that or it's a justification to bring back Eugenics programs and sterilize poor, non-whites.
Either that or it's a justification to bring back Eugenics programs and sterilize poor, non-whites.
19
"cultures that are typified by warfare and aggression"
wow ... wouldn't that imply almost every culture on the planet? i know i am to interpret all this as applying to indigenous tribal populations of color. but, then i look at the two world wars and the like and they were all started by europeans. but i guess nationalism is a form of tribalism.
wow ... wouldn't that imply almost every culture on the planet? i know i am to interpret all this as applying to indigenous tribal populations of color. but, then i look at the two world wars and the like and they were all started by europeans. but i guess nationalism is a form of tribalism.
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