Friday, June 5, 2009
Two-Block Radius / Religion Missionary Imposition
Posted by Jonah Spangenthal-Lee on Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 10:44 AM
Guess who’s coming to visit us on Capitol Hill, folks? Mars Hill Church.
This week, Mars Hill's Joel Fariss—a deacon at MH’s downtown church—wrote a blog post entitled "Mission in Capitol Hill." 
Capitol Hill is majestic in its standing among Seattle culture shapers, with its long Broadway avenue freckled with dirty Thai restaurants and hipster clothing stores, as well as a statuesque presence in the coffee world. Among these elite caverns of caffeine lies Bauhaus Coffee and Books.Bauhaus has long been a Capitol Hill landmark and is seen by locals as a comfortable place to hang out… literally. Just the other week I looked towards the door as I saw legs of black lace wrapped in a tight and short leather skirt which met the fur shawl that fell from the shoulders of a beautiful… man.
A MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A guy I know has been creating some really cool relationships with some of the staff there over the last year. The fruit of his ministry is amazing considering the hostility that most hold towards Christianity on the hill.
Farris goes on to quote a bunch of scripture relating to Mars Hill's mission to spread the word of God, fix the sinners, etc.
Then, Fariss writes:
This is what Mars Hill is doing on Capitol Hill: Living life intentionally. We are loving our neighbors, eating with them, serving the city with them. We have a vision to serve and love Capitol Hill to see the hill transformed to love and serve Jesus.Are You In?
I would love to talk with you more about the gospel of Jesus and the implications thereof, you can find me every Monday at Grey Gallery and Lounge on 11th between Pike and Pine on Capitol Hill: 5:30pm.
Yes, the same misogynistic, hipster church—which compared homosexuality to cancer—wants to come here and save you from yourself.
Grey's management says they weren't contacted Fariss or Mars Hill and aren't sure what to expect, come Monday. "If it’s just [Fariss] and a couple people having a beer and talking about god, I don’t have a problem, but if it’s a mission thing then it’s not something we would tolerate," says Grey Gallery and Lounge owner Erik Guttridge. "If it were to be a sort of mission at Grey, we’ve asked people to leave [for similar things] before."
When contacted about his "mission" Fariss seemed a bit rattled. He danced around Mars Hill's stance on homosexuality, saying that he disagreed with Pastor Mark Driscoll's gay-cancer analogy, but still believes all you gays are sinners.
His best-but-totally-incomprehensible explanation:
“I believe that if there have been negative things said about homosexuality, where those statements are coming from, they are coming from the same place on a biblical or Christian perspective on abusive fathers or other injustice in the world. Maybe the same place we would say victims find themselves in. People are victimized in certain ways.”
The last anti-gay church that tried to get a foothold in Capitol Hill didn’t last long. This time, all the queers, punks, militant atheists and lovable godless weirdoes should head over to Grey next Monday, pack the place and make Mars Hill feel as welcome as possible.
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2
I love how Mars Hills seems to embrace looking like hipsters, freaks, fags and street folk, while simultaneously being unable to tolerate those people. I guess they're just like so many other predators found in nature who mimic their prey in order to gain trust before they strike.
6
"the hostility that most hold towards Christianity on the hill"
Obviously they don't understand that it's a particular kind of conservative, misogynistic and homophobic Christianity that people on the hill are hostile towards. There are plenty of churches and Christians on the hill, they just tend to be of the liberal variety.
Obviously they don't understand that it's a particular kind of conservative, misogynistic and homophobic Christianity that people on the hill are hostile towards. There are plenty of churches and Christians on the hill, they just tend to be of the liberal variety.
7
the hostility that most hold towards Christianity on the hill.hmmmmm....i wonder if that compares to the hostility that most evangelical Christians hold for the geighs?
8
That beautiful "man" certainly couldn't be an MTF transsexual. And certainly no one at Mars Hill could be expected to even acknowledge the existence of transgender folk.
10
@6 That and the ones that pretend to be your friend so they can sell you some Jesus.
To be honest those kind bug me more than the fundies who at least are honest and upfront about where they are coming from.
To be honest those kind bug me more than the fundies who at least are honest and upfront about where they are coming from.
11
@1, I don't think he meant it as a dig.
A hostile stance against Fariss himself feels to me like it's not likely to "bear fruit". (And I wouldn't say that about Driscoll with his gay-cancer analogy, etc.)
A better approach would be to hold Fariss to a high standard of honesty, which I think he would at least see himself as aspiring to.
Taking a look at his incomprehensible explanation about homosexuality, I think he himself would have to admit that it didn't make a drop of sense. So, Joel, if you are reading this, what did you mean to say? Can you really honestly explain away this kind of bigotry?
A hostile stance against Fariss himself feels to me like it's not likely to "bear fruit". (And I wouldn't say that about Driscoll with his gay-cancer analogy, etc.)
A better approach would be to hold Fariss to a high standard of honesty, which I think he would at least see himself as aspiring to.
Taking a look at his incomprehensible explanation about homosexuality, I think he himself would have to admit that it didn't make a drop of sense. So, Joel, if you are reading this, what did you mean to say? Can you really honestly explain away this kind of bigotry?
13
Oh grow up people. Let them gather at whatever bar and proselytize to no one. Neither party is going to change anyone's minds here, and give yourselves and Cap Hill more credit -- a couple of hipster thumpers is not suddenly going to turn one of the gayest, most liberal communities on the planet into Colorado Springs.
16
Look, I'm not going to lie. I don't like most Christians. There are too many people with brains out there for me to meet. I'm not going to waste my time with some retard believer. I don't care if they sit next to me, hang around me, marry each other, go jogging, swim in a lake, swim in the pool I go to, or even talk to me. They are equal, and I won't refute that. But a Mars Hill Christian is not equal to me, because they can't shut the fuck up about Christ and how much of a raging boner he gives them. And no, given the "missions" they've had, they aren't welcome around me. Ask for every person in the room who are Mars-Hill-Church-intolerant to raise their hand, I'll proudly raise mine. Then I'll go back to fapping to these hot pix of dog pr0n.
17
Why even bother? It's like when the Klan wants to hold a parade -- 12 Klan members march while being outnumbered 50:1 by hecklers and protesters. You show up and give 'em hell and they can play the persecuted Christians card. You don't show up and I guarantee you no one else will either. Tumbleweeds speak louder than taunts.
18
I'd say nobody should show up, but I wouldn't want to punish the business; maybe you can fill the building and form a cone of silence around the MH douches. Be sure to order something and tip well.
19
Much like Paul's performance on the original Mars Hill, I think Joel will be less than satisfied with his performance on Capitol Hill.
20
Whatever you think about him you've got to admit the that the man sure is brave. He's basically going into the belly of the beast, I hope he brings some protection with him. I admire people like him who truly understand the message of Christ, servitude and sitting down to break bread with those who haven't heard the good news. Matthew 9:11-12
11 When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, "Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and 'sinners'?"
12 On hearing this, Jesus said, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick.
That's after all what the lord told us he came to earth for.
Whatever you think about him you've got to admit the that the man sure is brave. He's basically going into the belly of the beast, I hope he brings some protection with him. I admire people like him who truly understand the message of Christ, servitude and sitting down to break bread with those who haven't heard the good news. Matthew 9:11-12
11 When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, "Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and 'sinners'?"
12 On hearing this, Jesus said, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick.
That's after all what the lord told us he came to earth for.
11 When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, "Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and 'sinners'?"
12 On hearing this, Jesus said, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick.
That's after all what the lord told us he came to earth for.
Whatever you think about him you've got to admit the that the man sure is brave. He's basically going into the belly of the beast, I hope he brings some protection with him. I admire people like him who truly understand the message of Christ, servitude and sitting down to break bread with those who haven't heard the good news. Matthew 9:11-12
11 When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, "Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and 'sinners'?"
12 On hearing this, Jesus said, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick.
That's after all what the lord told us he came to earth for.
22
From the comments on Farris' blog (below), he's practicing the classic model of "radical evangelism" that so many modern day "christian" cults teach their members to do.
You think you've met a really cool, friendly guy, gal or couple and only when they've gained your trust does the real purpose come out... they merely want you to "Serve Jesus" ( or more accurately, to follow the rules of their cult as interpreted by the charismatic leader of such). In most of these so-called churches, there is an unreal amount of pressure on numbers (of potential converts) and even more guilt laid on the members who aren't "producing fruit" (snaring new converts). Been there, done that. Free now.
Here's what Joel Fariss says on his Mars Hill blog. (Watch out there, neighbors, baristas and bartenders)...
* It also means that I initiate relationship with those around me because Jesus initiated relationship with me. We took out some neighbors for drinks last week and are now planning to have dinner with them.
* We also have decided to be regulars at a couple local establishments. I know my barista and am on a first name basis with two bartenders at my local pub. I desire to know these people because I desire to love and serve them. I desire to see them reconciled to God.
This is what Mars Hill is doing on Capitol Hill: Living life intentionally. We are loving our neighbors, eating with them, serving the city with them. We have a vision to serve and love Capitol Hill to see the hill transformed to love and serve Jesus.
You think you've met a really cool, friendly guy, gal or couple and only when they've gained your trust does the real purpose come out... they merely want you to "Serve Jesus" ( or more accurately, to follow the rules of their cult as interpreted by the charismatic leader of such). In most of these so-called churches, there is an unreal amount of pressure on numbers (of potential converts) and even more guilt laid on the members who aren't "producing fruit" (snaring new converts). Been there, done that. Free now.
Here's what Joel Fariss says on his Mars Hill blog. (Watch out there, neighbors, baristas and bartenders)...
* It also means that I initiate relationship with those around me because Jesus initiated relationship with me. We took out some neighbors for drinks last week and are now planning to have dinner with them.
* We also have decided to be regulars at a couple local establishments. I know my barista and am on a first name basis with two bartenders at my local pub. I desire to know these people because I desire to love and serve them. I desire to see them reconciled to God.
This is what Mars Hill is doing on Capitol Hill: Living life intentionally. We are loving our neighbors, eating with them, serving the city with them. We have a vision to serve and love Capitol Hill to see the hill transformed to love and serve Jesus.
23
"Tumbleweeds speak louder than taunts. "
please tell me you just made that up! haha, its kinda awesome
please tell me you just made that up! haha, its kinda awesome
25
Yeah, I'm with Jason on this one. Showing up and having an overly dramatic gay makeout session in front of them will just convince them that there's more work to be done fur jebsus. Actively ignoring these people is the only way to get through to them. Don't talk to them, don't look at them, don't acknowledge them, if you find yourself in a conversation and discover they're from mars hill just walk away and don't say anything, don't finish your sentence, just walk away.
26
@20 Brave would be going to North Korea or some other place where he would face real violence for expressing his beliefs.
At worst he is going to get yelled at. BFD
At worst he is going to get yelled at. BFD
27
This dude plagiarizes himself.
June 1, 2009 / 4:29 pm
http://redsonmissionary.wordpress.com/20…
vs.
January 15, 2009 / 11:58 pm
http://redsonmissionary.wordpress.com/20…
He has seen the same MAN, dressed in the same fashion, six months apart.
June 1, 2009 / 4:29 pm
http://redsonmissionary.wordpress.com/20…
vs.
January 15, 2009 / 11:58 pm
http://redsonmissionary.wordpress.com/20…
He has seen the same MAN, dressed in the same fashion, six months apart.
28
@20 LC you're awesome (and probably a little tipsy as usual) - your point is excellent. But it is funny how mistaken you are about who is healthy and who is sick here, spiritually speaking. I guess one reason to go be present for Fariss is indeed because the poor dear is among the sick. As people like him get more opportunities to actually know us and our hearts, they grow to respect and love us better. That leaves them healthier in spirit - for they grow closer to whatever creator they seek, whom logic and new experience leads them to realize made us just as we are too.
30
16 - You don't like most Christians?! I, for one, am shocked.
20 - The belly of the beast? What's going to happen to him? Do you think he'll get gang-raped by a bunch of trannies? Or perhaps some hipsters will pretentious him to death. Maybe he'll catch teh gay from Dan Savage. Whatever happens, I hope someone videotapes it.
20 - The belly of the beast? What's going to happen to him? Do you think he'll get gang-raped by a bunch of trannies? Or perhaps some hipsters will pretentious him to death. Maybe he'll catch teh gay from Dan Savage. Whatever happens, I hope someone videotapes it.
31
@20, "I hope he brings some protection with him."
Do you mean something like a condom?
They are going to a Capitol Hill bar, not fucking Tikrit.
Do you mean something like a condom?
They are going to a Capitol Hill bar, not fucking Tikrit.
33
I bet that works really well on lonely people, and this city seems to be teeming with them.
It also means that I initiate relationship with those around me because Jesus initiated relationship with me. We took out some neighbors for drinks last week and are now planning to have dinner with them.
I bet that works really well on lonely people, and this city seems to be teeming with them.
34
I like how he's visiting these establishments to push a cause and be so proud to get to know these people by name or whatever to convert them. Can't these people just SOCIALIZE without it being to CONVERT? Just TALK to people. LIVE for chrissakes. Drink the coffee at Bauhaus and just enjoy it instead of scoping for weak-willed people to join your cult.
36
*snicker* I had to read only two sentences of #20 before I knew exactly who posted it. That was good for a laugh- "I hope he brings some protection with him"? Seriously??
Yeah, he'd better watch out- Forget Tar n' Feather, let's get together a posse and Lube n' Glitter him boys! YEAH HAW!
Yeah, he'd better watch out- Forget Tar n' Feather, let's get together a posse and Lube n' Glitter him boys! YEAH HAW!
37
What pisses me off about this the most is his (and Loveschilds) assumptions that people on the hill are intolerant and somehow perhaps dangerous... I moved here at 18, a straight christen girl from a small town and have recieved nothing but tolerence and friendship and support from my neighborhood community for the past 10 years. I would argue this is one of the most tolerant places to live. Hell I cant imagine a gay kid moving to a small town and getting the same support from their new staright community that I recieved here. I dont wanna see the hill "transformed" by your love Mr Mars Hills Church Guy, I wanna see you transformed by the accpetence and humanity of the the very people you think are hellbound sinners. I hope he lives here long enough to de-program his ass. Literally.
39
@33
Holy shit that is a scary thought. This guy probably sees dollar signs and 1,000 Jeebus points he can score by knowing how many desperate, lonely people there are in this city. He's going to capitalize on it.
Holy shit that is a scary thought. This guy probably sees dollar signs and 1,000 Jeebus points he can score by knowing how many desperate, lonely people there are in this city. He's going to capitalize on it.
41
@30
Don't worry, for you have nothing to worry about. Your religion is undisclosed. I like that. And have already addressed a "you win" because of it.
@34
No. They cannot. And these are not people. People do not attend Mars Hill. The things that attend Mars Hill can be found even on a bus, purposely faking a conversation about how awesome Mars Hill is, pointing to it, saying "here it comes," "there it is," and "oh gosh I can't wait. This is gonna be so much fuuuun!" I am not fucking joking.
Don't worry, for you have nothing to worry about. Your religion is undisclosed. I like that. And have already addressed a "you win" because of it.
@34
No. They cannot. And these are not people. People do not attend Mars Hill. The things that attend Mars Hill can be found even on a bus, purposely faking a conversation about how awesome Mars Hill is, pointing to it, saying "here it comes," "there it is," and "oh gosh I can't wait. This is gonna be so much fuuuun!" I am not fucking joking.
43
39 - That's what they do. Why do you think there's so many "Pregnant? We can help." billboards in the world. Not only do they get to save a baby, but they have a fucked-up, scared, miserable teenage girl to brainwash into their bullshit idea of what it means to be Christ-like. Just like any predator, the Christian right preys on the week.
41 - Well, as long as I'm safe.
41 - Well, as long as I'm safe.
44
What do these people hope to accomplish? Maybe just some BS publicity for their church? I asked the mormons wtf they were doing on Cap Hill, then screamed at them to get out of my neighborhood and that their bigot message wasn't tolerated here. These people, if they really want to "recruit" and not just get in the paper should look toward places like Wedgewood or Bellevue or Renton (Burien perhaps?). The effort it would take to convert 1 person on Cap Hill, they could prolly recruit 20 somewhere else. Ugh. But I'd love to go to the Grey Lounge and talk to them, cause man I love pissin off the xtians.
45
Homosexuality is an adaptation. Religion is myth and superstition. It's religion that needs to go.
46
The best kind of Christians keep their theological opinions to themselves. They may pray quietly and attend church regularly but don't believe that everyone else has to do the same in order to be loved by God. They don't believe that one has to believe in Jesus in order to go to heaven--most liberal Christians don't even believe heaven or hell exist. They don't believe that one has to be a Christian, or a member of any religious tradition, in order to be a good person. I know a lot of liberal Christians but none of them proselytize.
Loveschild, do you live in Seattle? Have you ever been to Capitol Hill, i.e. the neighborhood you refer to as the "belly of the beast" and full of "sick" people? If so, you should know there are a lot of people here who live decent lives, work hard at honest jobs, and do their best not to hurt others in the process. Our religious beliefs may be different from yours, but that doesn't make those of us who live here bad people. While you have your nose in the Bible, take a good look at Matthew 7:1-5.
Loveschild, do you live in Seattle? Have you ever been to Capitol Hill, i.e. the neighborhood you refer to as the "belly of the beast" and full of "sick" people? If so, you should know there are a lot of people here who live decent lives, work hard at honest jobs, and do their best not to hurt others in the process. Our religious beliefs may be different from yours, but that doesn't make those of us who live here bad people. While you have your nose in the Bible, take a good look at Matthew 7:1-5.
48
covert proselytizing is somewhat annoying. when i feel someone is doing that to me, i lose respect for them, and no longer trust the friendship. you don't go to a neighborhood to meet people for the sake of making the neighborhood a better place.
either make the "foreign" neighborhood a better place intentionally and obviously, or move here and develop relationships with those you meet.
either make the "foreign" neighborhood a better place intentionally and obviously, or move here and develop relationships with those you meet.
49
He's like a mall cop, desperate for a crime to occur so that he can be a hero. Going to Grey and harassing him is exactly what he's looking for. What courage, to march into the lion's den and live to talk about it. It'll make a good story to tell his friends back at Mars Hill.
50
I hate to break it to him, but the positive reactions he's getting are largely due to people being "seattle nice". You know, where people will stand in your way and say "sorry" when you point it out to them... but not move at all?
We should all pick a day to go hang out at MHC. Show up and say, "I'm here for the chemo. What? You guys said homosexuality is a cancer, and... oh, I see."
We should all pick a day to go hang out at MHC. Show up and say, "I'm here for the chemo. What? You guys said homosexuality is a cancer, and... oh, I see."
51
I grew up on the southwest side of Indianapolis in a community called Mars Hill. It was always really red-neck and backward as it was populated mostly by Kentuckians that ran out of money on their way to Chicago in the 1800's. And of course, there is exists a Mars Hill Church in Mars Hill and it is fundamentalist and evangelical in nature. Who knew there was a west-coast branch?
52
@44 Renton has more than enough already, thanks.
Of course, with this kind of people, one is more than enough.
Of course, with this kind of people, one is more than enough.
53
from my experience, i'd guess joel is not looking for a confrontation -- though of course he'd talk about it excitedly if one were to occur.
he's more likely someone who actually believes most of the people on capitol hill are going to hell, and actually wants to help them. he's not a high paid pastor (and even if he is, those with him will likely not be), he's not in it for publicity or anything else.
that said, he's wrong in the way in which he wants to "help" others. it's like giving someone else a gift you want. sure, they might like it, but chances are they'd appreciate it more if you gave them a gift they wanted.
i know it can get tiresome dealing with these people. but a joel is better than a fred phelps... and if you accidentally find yourself in a conversation -- or a friendship -- with such a joel, the better thing to do is to talk with them civilly (even though it's far more difficult).
we win when people are no longer bigoted. and often, people are no longer bigoted when they meet -- when they get to know -- someone who's one of them. this is what ed murray meant when he said we have to get out there out of the city. which, sounds strangely similar to what joel is doing: going into their area so they can see that those people aren't as bad after all.
he's more likely someone who actually believes most of the people on capitol hill are going to hell, and actually wants to help them. he's not a high paid pastor (and even if he is, those with him will likely not be), he's not in it for publicity or anything else.
that said, he's wrong in the way in which he wants to "help" others. it's like giving someone else a gift you want. sure, they might like it, but chances are they'd appreciate it more if you gave them a gift they wanted.
i know it can get tiresome dealing with these people. but a joel is better than a fred phelps... and if you accidentally find yourself in a conversation -- or a friendship -- with such a joel, the better thing to do is to talk with them civilly (even though it's far more difficult).
we win when people are no longer bigoted. and often, people are no longer bigoted when they meet -- when they get to know -- someone who's one of them. this is what ed murray meant when he said we have to get out there out of the city. which, sounds strangely similar to what joel is doing: going into their area so they can see that those people aren't as bad after all.
54
God is great, Mars Hill is full of terrible douchebags.
http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2006/09…
http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2006/09…
56
If a family breaks into millions of homes over a long, long period of time and beats the shit out of everyone for being different, do you decide to fight back? Of course you do. But wait! One of their newer daughters is sitting at home, asking if we can all just get along. No, we can't. Kill the family.
Religion is and always has been the #1 cause of murder, bigotry, intolerance, pain, and agony. It isn't a gun, and it isn't an individual. Kill it. Kill it all. What could you possibly learn from anyone who believes a word of the bible?
Religion is and always has been the #1 cause of murder, bigotry, intolerance, pain, and agony. It isn't a gun, and it isn't an individual. Kill it. Kill it all. What could you possibly learn from anyone who believes a word of the bible?
58
46 I apologize if that's how my comment came off as, please forgive me I did not meant that way. What I was trying to say was that he is brave to go and share his convictions and love of Christ in a place that's predominately not that receptive to hearing that message. He knows that he will be rejected, ignored by most and maybe assaulted by some yet he's still willing to go I think because he thinks that if only one person is willing to hear the message of love he brings it will be well worth it. To see this man's work outfront as an "imposition" without first hearing what he has to say is just as closed minded as those you claim to more better and tolerant than. I know there's descent people of all faiths living in the Hill, anyone who approaches a place thinking that they're superior than those who inhabit it are not truly messengers of our Lord Jesus Christ, because all of us are born sinners, we all share that commonality.
59
I bet it will be like what happened on a Sunday night a few months back at my neighborhood bar in the U-District. Guy comes in, super-super-nice, has a beer, talks to everyone, extremely friendly. Made mild overtures toward changing the topic of conversation to religion, but no one was biting. Finished his beer, used the restroom, paid up and left with a smile. Five minutes later, we discovered that he took a red marker to the men's room to write this long Jesus screed all over the walls and mirror. Seemed like such a nice dude, but was only interested in "converting" all of us. Faking being genuine and nice is the absolute last thing that would make me want to visit your church, Mars Hill peeps.
61
@58, Have you ever actually been to Capitol Hill? While this fellow may get some snide remarks, he is not going to get his ass kicked by a big bad queer unless he does something especially egregious. Sitting on a barstool rapping about G-d's love is not going to put this guy in danger, but given that he is doing so under the aegis of a group of bigots, he is barking up the wrong tree. Most sick folks have no problem with Jesus, but take issue with being delcared them an abomination before another's god.
62
@58
Anyone going to Capitol Hill bar to fake hang out and convert people to anything would be met with disapproval for being fake and tacky and generally bringing the vibe down. Doesn't matter who you represent.
Anyone going to Capitol Hill bar to fake hang out and convert people to anything would be met with disapproval for being fake and tacky and generally bringing the vibe down. Doesn't matter who you represent.
63
@58
Anyone going to Capitol Hill bar to fake hang out and convert people to anything would be met with disapproval for being fake and tacky and generally bringing the vibe down. Doesn't matter who you represent.
Anyone going to Capitol Hill bar to fake hang out and convert people to anything would be met with disapproval for being fake and tacky and generally bringing the vibe down. Doesn't matter who you represent.
64
Read Lovechild's poor-us whine @58 to understand the point of this.
Feel put upon, delusional that as a Christian you're forced to live in a world "predominately not that receptive to hearing [your] message" or that the only reason people won't believe your faith is they must be "closed minded" is the single biggest solitary motivator.
These little jaunts to convert the heathens are more about renewing this sense of being a poor little beleaguered Christian minority, struggling for acceptance in a big, bad world. Without this siege mentality, most evangelical groups would fall apart into joyless heaps of sanctimony.
Don't play his game. I agree: tumbleweeds.
Feel put upon, delusional that as a Christian you're forced to live in a world "predominately not that receptive to hearing [your] message" or that the only reason people won't believe your faith is they must be "closed minded" is the single biggest solitary motivator.
These little jaunts to convert the heathens are more about renewing this sense of being a poor little beleaguered Christian minority, struggling for acceptance in a big, bad world. Without this siege mentality, most evangelical groups would fall apart into joyless heaps of sanctimony.
Don't play his game. I agree: tumbleweeds.
65
Show up and give Eric your business, and shun the haters. the hill has no room for haters, and the bars definately need our business.
66
@58 - "anyone who approaches a place thinking that they're superior than those who inhabit it are not truly messengers of our Lord Jesus Christ, because all of us are born sinners"
The thing is, these thumpers DO think they're superior.
They think they are more righteous.
They think they alone hold the truth (beware of anyone who tells you that lie)
The thing is, these thumpers DO think they're superior.
They think they are more righteous.
They think they alone hold the truth (beware of anyone who tells you that lie)
67
What's worse, being a cancer or a victim of being gay? Tough choice. And I know people choose these things because Dr. Dobson told me so.
The love of Mars Hill is creepy. Kind of like the love of a molester.
The love of Mars Hill is creepy. Kind of like the love of a molester.
68
I'm hoping that his intention is to really gain a larger heart, and come to a greater understanding of humanity and himself. It is important to loose the idea of 'us' and 'them', and gain the understanding that there is really only 'we'. Then as a nation, 'we' will hunger for equality, because 'we' know we are all equal, and that separate but equal is not possible, nor is it tolerable as 'we' are one. May he be one of many who are changed on Capital Hill, here is to us all loving one's neighbor as one's self.
71
Where are these dirty Thai restaurants he speaks of? I eat a lot of Thai, but I don't eat in a filthy establishment.
73
Wait, so he says we're not a cancer. Instead we're like abusive fathers and we're victims? Thanks. I feel lots better now.
Asshole.
Asshole.
74
Huh...aside from the unnatural paleness, he's kinda cute. I wonder if he's furry everywhere. And bearish (mmmm....fur).
Hey, if he wants to convert me to his lifestyle, why can't I convert him to mine?
Hey, if he wants to convert me to his lifestyle, why can't I convert him to mine?
75
shit.. i knew i was going to get pissy as soon as i read his dig at 'dirty' thai restaurants..utter and complete foolishness.. he's brave for going to capitol hill?..i wonder what he thinks of feeding the hungry, healing the sick, and visiting the imprisoned. how much nerve does he have to work up in his heart to do that ?
.. and you too miss loveschild.. you too..truly cowardly the both and the lot of you.
.. and you too miss loveschild.. you too..truly cowardly the both and the lot of you.
76
If you do go to Grey Gallery, be funny and charming in your protest. Remember, to know us is to love us, unless you are acting like an asshole.
77
Unfortunately, I have another meeting that night, so will miss out on the fun.
Better than being snide, snarky, or rude, it seems like Mr. Fariss might instead be a good candidate for some "counter-conversion" - nudge, nudge, wink, wink. After all, the gays are going to have home-court advantage on this one.
Better than being snide, snarky, or rude, it seems like Mr. Fariss might instead be a good candidate for some "counter-conversion" - nudge, nudge, wink, wink. After all, the gays are going to have home-court advantage on this one.
78
Here's a better idea. I think we ought to rally large groups to attend Mars Hill and try to convert them, there, on their turf, to our tolerant lifestyle. Really...let's be for something, rather than against it, and let's take it straight to Belltown. No need for them to come all the way up to the Hill.
79
@58: when was the last time a Christian got actually "assaulted" (not scorned or ignored, physically assaulted) on the Hill? When was the last time someone got the shit kicked out of them because someone who probably self-identified as Christian thought they were queer? STFU about assault on the Hill. You want to change minds, go out on a Saturday night and prevent testosterone-laden assholes from beating up people whose looks they don't like.
Some of the most Christian (in the sense of believing in Christ and trying to live the Gospel through actions) people I know live on the Hill and in the U District, and none of them are being harassed or assaulted or crying "victim!" It's only when someone gets up in someone's face about JESUS IS THE ONLY TRUE WAY SINNER STOP SUCKING COCK AND MARRY A LADY BUT NOT A LADY RELATED TO ME that people get impatient and intolerant of you.
Some of the most Christian (in the sense of believing in Christ and trying to live the Gospel through actions) people I know live on the Hill and in the U District, and none of them are being harassed or assaulted or crying "victim!" It's only when someone gets up in someone's face about JESUS IS THE ONLY TRUE WAY SINNER STOP SUCKING COCK AND MARRY A LADY BUT NOT A LADY RELATED TO ME that people get impatient and intolerant of you.
80
"dirty Thai restaurants" --- I'm sorry (@1, @11) but what a jerk! He hasn't even been to those Thai restaurants, they are just as clean any other restaurant on the hill. Fuck him and his racist bigotry.
As for @56: while I don't support your solution, you are 100% correct in saying "Religion is and always has been the #1 cause of murder, bigotry, intolerance, pain, and agony."
It sure is. Plenty of proof too.
As for @56: while I don't support your solution, you are 100% correct in saying "Religion is and always has been the #1 cause of murder, bigotry, intolerance, pain, and agony."
It sure is. Plenty of proof too.
82
I love you, Reverend Dr. DJ Riz.
Also, @58: This is the most important thought in the thread. There is nothing more reprehensible than a privileged white Christian male talking about hostility and fear. We are liberal and open here on the Hill because SO MANY of us have experienced fear and hostility from the majority of the world. There is nowhere this man from Mars Hill can go where he will experience the threatening and marginalization that those of us that are "Other" are subject to in our own country.
Shame on him. He is not welcome in my neighborhood.
Also, @58: This is the most important thought in the thread. There is nothing more reprehensible than a privileged white Christian male talking about hostility and fear. We are liberal and open here on the Hill because SO MANY of us have experienced fear and hostility from the majority of the world. There is nowhere this man from Mars Hill can go where he will experience the threatening and marginalization that those of us that are "Other" are subject to in our own country.
Shame on him. He is not welcome in my neighborhood.
84
Yeah, I know this guy. I'm actually related to him. He knows I'm a girl who likes girls, but he still treats me as nicely as any other family member.
Talk about bizarre Slog trolling to come across this.
At least his form of evangelism is better than the usual door-to-door thumping or standing on the sidewalk with a megaphone.
Talk about bizarre Slog trolling to come across this.
At least his form of evangelism is better than the usual door-to-door thumping or standing on the sidewalk with a megaphone.
85
capitol hill doesn't need that kind of religion - a better kind of proselytization:
http://prideeucharist.org/
http://prideeucharist.org/
87
@41:
When I'm in in Tullys in the UDist, I hear so many obviously put-on conversations by Christian students.
I heard two girls talking about their "friend" who had sex before marriage.
"It's so lame to have sex before marriage," one said to the other. The whole conversation was just like this, totally fake and scripted, and juuust loud enough so that others could hear and maybe join in, giving them an opportunity to try and convert someone.
It's fucking nuts.
I really hate these people.
When I'm in in Tullys in the UDist, I hear so many obviously put-on conversations by Christian students.
I heard two girls talking about their "friend" who had sex before marriage.
"It's so lame to have sex before marriage," one said to the other. The whole conversation was just like this, totally fake and scripted, and juuust loud enough so that others could hear and maybe join in, giving them an opportunity to try and convert someone.
It's fucking nuts.
I really hate these people.
89
A good way to expose this bigot would be for a lesbian couple (who could pass as het hotties) to show up and start making out in front of him. When he has to take his inevitable erection to the men's room, a couple of teh gays would be ready to help him "out".
I'm betting <5 inches.
Mars Hill is an obvious cult. Driscoll will eventually be caught with his finger in the till, twat or taint. Then we can watch with bemusement the fight over his surprisingly substantial assets.
I'm betting <5 inches.
Mars Hill is an obvious cult. Driscoll will eventually be caught with his finger in the till, twat or taint. Then we can watch with bemusement the fight over his surprisingly substantial assets.
90
@6
I'm actually perfectly hostile to all of Christianity.
But I suppose I'm probably an exception to the rule.
I'm actually perfectly hostile to all of Christianity.
But I suppose I'm probably an exception to the rule.
91
A group cannot long survive without a sense of purpose and nothing sustains purpose better than the idea (real or imagined, it doesn't matter) there is another group out there with a common "hostility" toward whatever yours believes.
Therefore, I'm sure Capital Hill and its so-called "hostility" will serve quite well as a screen for Mars Hill to project and thereby confirm and reinforce its own unique world view.
Mars Hill, you are welcome to have Capital Hill as your bogeyman. Just please be respectful.
Therefore, I'm sure Capital Hill and its so-called "hostility" will serve quite well as a screen for Mars Hill to project and thereby confirm and reinforce its own unique world view.
Mars Hill, you are welcome to have Capital Hill as your bogeyman. Just please be respectful.
92
Funny, I thought people were the #1 cause of murder, bigotry, intolerance, pain, and agony. My mistake.
93
Fuck ALL of you. Except Poe.
At least these assholes don't live in your house, and throw big Jesus parties every Sunday. I don't even go into the common areas of the house, because every where you turn, there are a bunch of yobos jerking each other for Jesus.
Thank god I'm getting out of this stupid boarding house and going back to school and ascending to a place of learning and peace of mind. Otherwise I might have to choke a bitch.
At least these assholes don't live in your house, and throw big Jesus parties every Sunday. I don't even go into the common areas of the house, because every where you turn, there are a bunch of yobos jerking each other for Jesus.
Thank god I'm getting out of this stupid boarding house and going back to school and ascending to a place of learning and peace of mind. Otherwise I might have to choke a bitch.
94
Christians have a 2000 year long tradition of torturing, raping, and murdering gay people, and in the last 25 years or so have modified it a bit to just asking for more lenient sentences when caught torturing, raping and murdering GLBT people.
I am willing to see if the current crop of Christian "out-reach" is safe for the gays, and I figure about 2000 years or so should be just enough time to see if they are serious about it.
Until then I will use the same standard I use for pit bulls-staying the fuck away.
I am willing to see if the current crop of Christian "out-reach" is safe for the gays, and I figure about 2000 years or so should be just enough time to see if they are serious about it.
Until then I will use the same standard I use for pit bulls-staying the fuck away.
95
@2 & 22, exactly. I went to Bible College lo these many years ago, and there weren't hipster wanna-bes, but there was the Christian rock and all that shit, and it seemed like such a good way to relate to 'non-believers.' They're all cool and shit, but tell you're GAY, and that ain't so cool. These people disgust me.
96
There are already several churches on Capitol Hill. I'm sure nobody has any trouble finding their way to one of them if they want, without Mars Hill snagging them.
We took out some neighbors for drinks last week and are now planning to have dinner with them.
What I want to know is at what point the neighbors are told the goal of their friendly overtures. Anything after "right away" is a bit skeezy in a bait-and-switch kind of way.
We took out some neighbors for drinks last week and are now planning to have dinner with them.
What I want to know is at what point the neighbors are told the goal of their friendly overtures. Anything after "right away" is a bit skeezy in a bait-and-switch kind of way.
97
@94
Where did you get that info? Those are some pretty big statements for having no evidence to back it up.
Where did you get that info? Those are some pretty big statements for having no evidence to back it up.
98
"Mars Hill is an obvious cult. Driscoll will eventually be caught with his finger in the till, twat or taint. Then we can watch with bemusement the fight over his surprisingly substantial assets."
+1
+1
99
It's funny that though we claim to be tolerant and open minded people, we find ourselves using words like "THOSE people" "These THINGS from Mars Hill" and "fucking retards".
We really are open minded, aren't we? What a civil discussion about people who *gasp* disagree with us. Either stop using uncivil, dehumanizing language or come to grips that you are no more open minded than those people. Those sinners. You can't hold on to both and remain logical.
We really are open minded, aren't we? What a civil discussion about people who *gasp* disagree with us. Either stop using uncivil, dehumanizing language or come to grips that you are no more open minded than those people. Those sinners. You can't hold on to both and remain logical.
100
@99, what is there to 'discuss' in regard to their opinions about the gays? If they were advocating racism, would that be a 'discussion of our different beliefs' topic? I think not. Why should it be any different when discussing me or other people who are gay?
By the way, I looked at that MH blog, and my heart went out to the guy who wrote under "I came to Seattle to get away." He writes that he is battling his gay desires. Okay, obviously he'll have a hard time with that. The other thing is, I hope to god he didn't use his real name in the post. He will NEVER be fully accepted in the fundamentalist church, even if he does successfully battle his desires. They have room for anyone, but he will always be a bit on display. God forbid he gets married. I do feel sorry for him.
By the way, I looked at that MH blog, and my heart went out to the guy who wrote under "I came to Seattle to get away." He writes that he is battling his gay desires. Okay, obviously he'll have a hard time with that. The other thing is, I hope to god he didn't use his real name in the post. He will NEVER be fully accepted in the fundamentalist church, even if he does successfully battle his desires. They have room for anyone, but he will always be a bit on display. God forbid he gets married. I do feel sorry for him.
101
@ 92 - to quote Eddie Izzard: "The NRA says that 'guns don't kill people - people do', but I think the gun helps."
102
@20 "I hope he brings some protection with him"
Nothing says, "I trust God" like thinking one would need protection when going to a coffee shop to meet and talk with people.
Nothing says, "I trust God" like thinking one would need protection when going to a coffee shop to meet and talk with people.
103
@100, I didn't think this forum was discussing Mars Hill's opinion on gays, but just Mars Hill in general. And if a group was activating racism, using dehumanizing language against them would be simply be doing the same thing the racists are doing. I wouldn't stoop to that level. You can be sure my words would be very strong, but I wouldn't dehumanize them. That's just me tho.
And actually, that is his real name. He's open about his struggles at the church and actually got up in front of the entire church and told his story. People accept him and love him genuinely believe it or not....just like anyone else with homosexual desires. Gay or straight we are all screwed without Christ. It's not like anyone is better than anyone else for an orientation. If it's told any other way it is not the gospel. I am sorry if you've been told otherwise and I know you've heard horrible things come out of the mouths of those who claim to know God...I have too.
And actually, that is his real name. He's open about his struggles at the church and actually got up in front of the entire church and told his story. People accept him and love him genuinely believe it or not....just like anyone else with homosexual desires. Gay or straight we are all screwed without Christ. It's not like anyone is better than anyone else for an orientation. If it's told any other way it is not the gospel. I am sorry if you've been told otherwise and I know you've heard horrible things come out of the mouths of those who claim to know God...I have too.
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