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News & ArtsThursday, June 4, 2009
Crime Today's Pit Bull Post
Posted by Dan Savage on Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 10:05 AM
Let's get it out of the way, shall we? Slog reader Amy sent us this letter about her personal journey to pit loathing...
Love your column, read it all the time, partially credit my GGG relationship to you. But that's actually not relevant right now.I had a lot of skepticism about your anti-pit crusade. (I still suspect that dogs aren't really to blame for being what they are; I primarily blame the people who own them.) But over the past few months, my two dogs—calm submissive mutts that would make Cesar Millan himself proud—have both been attacked by pits. The bigger of my two, who is a total pacifist at nearly 90 pounds, was hospitalized when a pit a third of his size latched onto his throat (need I mention it was unprovoked?). The littler dog (22 pounds soaking wet) was attacked today, but, fortunately, was quicker than the pit and beelined back to the car before the pit got a firm bite. When we confronted the pit's owner, she threatened to call the cops on us, because we were "fucking with her property" (the pit bull, who was in a public park).
Firsthand experience certainly does make the world look different. My dogs are my heart, and while I know that pit owners probably feel the same way, I don't care. I know that these stories will just meet a sea of denial the next time I try to tell them to someone who hasn't seen what a pit bull can do. The most I can concede is that perhaps very skilled handlers can own pits; that's my olive branch to anyone who honestly does know a "good pit bull."
In other pit bull news (all stories published in the last two days): pit bull that attacked four people in Massachusetts—inflicting more than 50 wounds—is put down; boy riding his bike in Nebraska requires 50 stitches after being chased down and attacked by a 10-month-old pit bull "puppy"; deputy shoots pit bull during robbery investigation after pit attacks ("My dog doesn't bite," says dog's owner); police in Indiana forced to shoot two pit bulls after the dogs attack a woman in her own backyard; in Florida two pits running loose attack a 79-year-old woman and her Yorkshire terrier, killing the dog and injuring the woman; neighbor's pit bulls attack six-year-old girl getting out of a car in Maryland; a pit bull in California—"a family pet"—attacks and seriously injures a three-year-old girl; police officer forced to shoot a pit bull after it mauls a 16-year-old boy, lunges at officer; pit bull attacks three at apartment complex in Illinois; pit bull jumps over fence to maul another dog in Nebraska; in Tennessee a police officer shoots a pit bull six times after the dog mauls another dog and threatens the officer—and what happens next?
Tedford shot the dog six times causing the dog to drop to the ground, reports said. The dog, however, reportedly tried to get up, got aggressive and tried to bite at Tedford, who had walked over to check it. At that point, he shot the dog five more times, killing it, reports said.
Such nice dogs.
1
What I love about Dan is that he pounds home a point so hard you suspect he may have come afterwards... still I have to agree with Dan; as someone who has watched a pet cat eaten/killed/mauled by an unleashed pit that jumped the fence and rushed into our yard I can say from my personal experience they seem to be savage killers, not pets.
2
Officer Tedford needs to work on his marksmanship if it took him 11 rounds to put down a pit bull.
3
behind every one of these attacks you will find an undereducated, testosterone-addled, lower-class dirtball pit owner. of virtually any ethnicity.
that's who owns these dogs (other than dog-resucing lesbians, god bless em).
that's who owns these dogs (other than dog-resucing lesbians, god bless em).
5
I've also changed my mind about Pits. I will still argue that most of the problem lies with the owner, but there is also an instinctive component that causes the dog to flip out. Sometime these dogs just snap.
Cute that the owner threatened to call the cops.
If a pit comes at my dog, when I'm done stomping in the dogs skull I'm going after the owner.
Cute that the owner threatened to call the cops.
If a pit comes at my dog, when I'm done stomping in the dogs skull I'm going after the owner.
6
The Pit owners I've seen think their weiners get bigger when they stroll with their dogs. Image is everything.
7
@5 I think sometimes any dog, of any breed, just snaps. They are animals and not 100% under your control, no matter how well-trained. But, the difference is, when a pit bull snaps, it's more able to do serious bodily harm than many other breeds.
I do think there's something to the media bias, however. julie russell, in the comment thread yesterday, brought up this story of a Great Dane that attacked and killed its owner. It was a show dog, so most likely not owned by a "bad owner".
There were only a couple of media references to the attack when I googled, and yet you would think that a previously docile show dog that killed its owner would be big news.
I do think there's something to the media bias, however. julie russell, in the comment thread yesterday, brought up this story of a Great Dane that attacked and killed its owner. It was a show dog, so most likely not owned by a "bad owner".
There were only a couple of media references to the attack when I googled, and yet you would think that a previously docile show dog that killed its owner would be big news.
8
I know I'm practically talking to a brick wall here, but they _can_ be nice dogs if they're raised by responsible owners. My cousin has two, and the only danger they'd ever pose is that they might lick you to death.
The letter you posted is hilarious in that it's essentially the classic right-wing trope that "a conservative is a liberal mugged by reality" or some other such horseshit. It's not exactly a reasoned, principled stance on an issue if you instantly revert to the other side the second you or your precious babbies have been personally threatened, is it?
It's like the parent who's always been staunchly against the death penalty until it comes to the killer of their own offspring. It's all well and good, but let's not shit ourselves into pretending that you, underneath the liberal veneer, were anything other than a frothing, vengeful reactionary to begin with.
By the way, the word "pit bull" is not mentioned once in the story about the mauled 16 year old. But please, don't let me impede your neurotic, pathological hatred of these animals. I'm sure obsessively collecting and posting these news stories will have exactly the desired effect, which is... what, exactly?
The letter you posted is hilarious in that it's essentially the classic right-wing trope that "a conservative is a liberal mugged by reality" or some other such horseshit. It's not exactly a reasoned, principled stance on an issue if you instantly revert to the other side the second you or your precious babbies have been personally threatened, is it?
It's like the parent who's always been staunchly against the death penalty until it comes to the killer of their own offspring. It's all well and good, but let's not shit ourselves into pretending that you, underneath the liberal veneer, were anything other than a frothing, vengeful reactionary to begin with.
By the way, the word "pit bull" is not mentioned once in the story about the mauled 16 year old. But please, don't let me impede your neurotic, pathological hatred of these animals. I'm sure obsessively collecting and posting these news stories will have exactly the desired effect, which is... what, exactly?
9
Pitbulls were bred to be fighting dogs. Owning a pitbull takes at least quadruple the responsibility of owning most other breeds of dogs. Unfortunately the people that are often drawn to the breed are those who want a tough looking and tough acting dog to protect themselves and their property. These are often the people that leave their dogs chained in the yard to ward off possible intruders. They never give their dog proper training or the possibility of becoming a good dog. I volunteer at a shelter where at least 70-80 percent of the adoptable dogs at any given time are pitbulls or pitbull mixes. One thing the shelter makes very clear to possible adopters is that pit bulls are bred to do certain things and that you can never ever take your eyes off them. They suggest that pit bulls not go to homes with young children or other small or large dogs. Basically they are trying not to set these dogs up for failure. In reality there is only a small percent of the population that would actually make good pit bull owners. Dogs take a huge amount of responsibility, and I wish people would understand that if they are choosing to own a dog who is bred to behave in a certain way that they should do their very best to ensure that their dog is always under their supervision and control. It also disheartening to see so many pit bull breeders out there as well as many "backyard" pit bull breeders looking to sell their puppies on craigslist. If you really want a pit bull and are capable of that level of responsibility please consider adopting from your shelter first. I've met so many wonderful pit bulls in the shelter. No one deserves to get attacked by a dog...except their irresponsible owners.
10
@7 man that story still blows my mind actually. I mean, great danes are normally such docile lugs.
Also, a lot of times the media will call any mutt that they cannot identify a Pit Bull, because it drives the ratings up.
Also, a lot of times the media will call any mutt that they cannot identify a Pit Bull, because it drives the ratings up.
11
And on another note, no where in this person's letter does she state that they were at a dog park, just a public park, yet her dogs were off-leash as well (ie able to make a beeline back to the car without leash interference). SO really, it is just all around bad on both owner's.
12
Cat owners can be irresponsible, too. But it rarely results in anyone being harmed but the cat. Pity the same can't be said of dogs.
14
"perhaps very skilled handlers can own pits"
I agree with her on this point. It's the owners who refuse to acknowledge what their pit bulls are capable of that scare me.
I agree with her on this point. It's the owners who refuse to acknowledge what their pit bulls are capable of that scare me.
15
Are all breeds of pit bull considered dangerous? American Pit Bull Terrier, Staffordshire Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier? Are we talking all of them? Some of them? How well are they identified in these attack cases? I have a tendency to not believe what the news media says because they are fuckwads who peddle in shock entertainment, not informative news. I would imagine it makes for a better story to say someone was brutally mulled by a Pit Bull than just some mutt. I'm not trying to defend Pit Bulls, I'm just attacking the american news media.
16
@5 You are truly delusional if you think you can harm a pit bull without a gun or a big knife. I had few experiences with them and it's easier to overpower a huge shepherd than a small pit bull.
@7 It's not about biting or aggression, yes most dogs are theoretically capable of it, but the strength of the jaws and the tactic that makes them super deadly.
@7 It's not about biting or aggression, yes most dogs are theoretically capable of it, but the strength of the jaws and the tactic that makes them super deadly.
17
@15 I agree with you completely. I always want some one to show me the raw data. Here you go...the CDC don't lie.
http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/dogbreeds.…
http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/dogbreeds.…
18
When I walk my dog, if there's a pit bull around, I usually just pull mine the other way and leave it at that. I have a large breed dog that's capable of defending itself, but I doubt it would hold up well in a tussle with a pit bull. At the same time, given his size, I respect when other people pull their dogs back from him. It's a trust issue, and if you don't trust the dog, then you have every right to be wary of it, just as you would be with children.
On the other hand, I recognize that I'm basing a lot of this on stereotypes. It's safer to apply them when you're not sure what you're dealing with, so I think it's justified. On the other hand, if the list of stories were about black men, and not dogs, perhaps you'd be willing to admit the logical error you're making. If anyone were to list off statistics of black males and crime, you'd say they were making an error of some sort, right?
Or lets compare that to Sam Wurzelbacher saying he'd never let his kids around gays. He may be wrong, but he's functioning on the same level as you are in relation to pit bulls. Can you possibly admit the similarities?
On the other hand, I recognize that I'm basing a lot of this on stereotypes. It's safer to apply them when you're not sure what you're dealing with, so I think it's justified. On the other hand, if the list of stories were about black men, and not dogs, perhaps you'd be willing to admit the logical error you're making. If anyone were to list off statistics of black males and crime, you'd say they were making an error of some sort, right?
Or lets compare that to Sam Wurzelbacher saying he'd never let his kids around gays. He may be wrong, but he's functioning on the same level as you are in relation to pit bulls. Can you possibly admit the similarities?
19
@3
Right here, perfect example. The writer almost has to be making up that last quote, right?
http://www.gazette.com/articles/elmore-5…
Right here, perfect example. The writer almost has to be making up that last quote, right?
http://www.gazette.com/articles/elmore-5…
20
I'd like to see about two dozen angry pit pulls sicced on the Critical Massholes the next time they "cork" an intersection. I figure the pits and the Massholes deserve each other as few other groups do.
Plus, think of the comment hits on Slog if that happy fantasy ever came to pass. Maybe we could feed the pits some foie gras as a reward for fucking up some Massholes, and then we'd have have a Slog comment trifecta.
Get on this ASAP, Dan. Be creative!
Plus, think of the comment hits on Slog if that happy fantasy ever came to pass. Maybe we could feed the pits some foie gras as a reward for fucking up some Massholes, and then we'd have have a Slog comment trifecta.
Get on this ASAP, Dan. Be creative!
21
#17 for the win. Dan - you should add that link at the bottom of each post in your new series "Every child deserves a puppy with really strong jaws"
22
I'm sorry...I still think that at one time or another a human was responsible, but I do agree..having the dogs in populated areas, or actualy areas where other people live at all may not be possible. I feel terrible for good owners of these dogs, because I know how attached you can get to an animal, but I ultimatly agree with you Dan. If I had a pet Lion in my backyard, the press and law enforcement would be all over it. I believe it is a similiar matter. Pit Bulls have been bread over the years for attacking, just like my little Shi-Tzu has been bread to lie around all day. In the end, I feel bad for the dogs because they should never be put in the situation. Would we be ok with having a wild wolf in our homes? It is similiar, both are breed to hunt and KILL. If a ban was to be inacted, I think it would be best to let current owners of the breed to keep their dogs, but not breed them. Make it illegal to breed new ones, or to buy a new one...and over time the breed would fade away from populated areas. However, then you get the underground market forming, just like anything is made illegal.
23
17 - You know someone on this thread is going to say that data like that doesn't matter, somehow.
This pretty clearly shows that certain breeds of dogs are more dangerous than others. The problem is that pit bull enthusiasts refuse to recognize this. It doesn't matter if the dog is a bigger threat because of its physical capabilities or because it was bred for a certain behavior. Going on about how sweet and cuddly your pit bull is doesn't help the problem that many people are irresponsible and unable properly handle pit bulls (and rottweilers and german shepherds, etc.). Denial is not a solution.
This pretty clearly shows that certain breeds of dogs are more dangerous than others. The problem is that pit bull enthusiasts refuse to recognize this. It doesn't matter if the dog is a bigger threat because of its physical capabilities or because it was bred for a certain behavior. Going on about how sweet and cuddly your pit bull is doesn't help the problem that many people are irresponsible and unable properly handle pit bulls (and rottweilers and german shepherds, etc.). Denial is not a solution.
24
"Firsthand experience certainly does make the world look different."
I think that's called confirmation bias.
I think that's called confirmation bias.
25
Dogs don't kill people. People kill people.
Sure, automatic rifles can do more damage more quickly than single shot models, but gee, my automatic rifle is well-behaved and never hurts anyone. It's just bad automatic rifle owners who are to blame. Instead of believing the press when it comes to types of guns used in violence, listen to the guy I know at the gun repair shop who works with automatic rifles all the time and says they are the most loving and loyal weapons he can think of.
Don't blame the breed. You people are just hysterical anti-gun nuts who believe the sensationalist stories in the press designed to sell more newspapers.
Sure, automatic rifles can do more damage more quickly than single shot models, but gee, my automatic rifle is well-behaved and never hurts anyone. It's just bad automatic rifle owners who are to blame. Instead of believing the press when it comes to types of guns used in violence, listen to the guy I know at the gun repair shop who works with automatic rifles all the time and says they are the most loving and loyal weapons he can think of.
Don't blame the breed. You people are just hysterical anti-gun nuts who believe the sensationalist stories in the press designed to sell more newspapers.
26
Why is it only pitbull owners who seem to defend these damn animals. A breed that was bred to fight and kill will not loose the instinct because you call him snookums. Thats not how life works. Yes the media may play this up, but as pointed out by #17 there is some good data to back up the assumption that Pitbulls are the most dangerous. All it takes is once, it's a lot like a gun. It doesn't matter what you do when it's safe and put away, once it kill someone it s a fucking issue. We have gun control, which is supported by over 60% of the populace. Keeping guns out of Pits out of thug hands is the same as keeping guns out of thug hands. I appreciate you and your gun or pit haven't done anything YET, but it's instinctual and a matter of time. You can't wish away instinct, just like you can't wish away the deadly nature of the aforementioned firearm, which I may need to purchase to shoot yoru fucking dog.
27
@25 whereas I agree with the overarching theme, owners need to take responsibility for their pets no matter the breed, ummm the whole gun thing is pretty stupid considering that dogs do have a mind of their own and can act without the provocation of their owner or any other person, whereas someone has to be the mind behind the gun in order to wield it at someone.
28
I lived next door to a family whose ex-juvie, crackhead son decided that the way to make a living was to breed pit bulls. With the first litter, all sorts of clearly nonresponsible future pit bull owners started showing up in the neighborhood. The dog was not very well-contained in the neighbor's yard. So the first time that dog showed up in my backyard, where my 3-yr-old son often plays, I beat that bitch to death with a 9 iron. (I know a driver was probably the correct club to get distance, but I grabbed what was handy.) So I solved several problems with just a few swings: fewer pit bulls to distribute, a safer yard, and my neighbors soon moved.
30
Here's a report about dog bite statistics from 1982-2006. A quick scan through the numbers will have the total for pit bull terriers jump at your throat. http://www.dogbitelaw.com/Dog%20Attacks%…. There are 104 deaths and 1110 maimings accredited to pit bull terriers.
Domesticated foxes can be bred in ten generations. Incredibly vicious foxes can be bred in the same number of generations. You can have ten generations of dogs in less than twenty years (actually about ten years). Dogs bred for fighting - attacking other creatures - will do what they are bred to do.
Domesticated foxes can be bred in ten generations. Incredibly vicious foxes can be bred in the same number of generations. You can have ten generations of dogs in less than twenty years (actually about ten years). Dogs bred for fighting - attacking other creatures - will do what they are bred to do.
31
I was bit by a dog recently. It was a Jack Russell, so clearly not life-threatening in any way. The owner of the dog was the rudest person I've ever encountered (not on drugs). I very nicely did not kick the dog. I called animal control. They investigated, but I think it turned into a she said/she said thing.
Based on my recent experience, any dog can be a bitch, and any dog owner can, too. I'm less afraid of pit bulls than other dogs, but I wouldn't care if they banned the breed or required special licenses or something.
I'm a dog lover. I've never met a pit that wasn't submissive and friendly. BUT, people can't be trusted. One has to take special care with a big, powerful, aggressive, or whatever dog. This would include Rotts, Shepherds, etc. The next dog I get will be a big dog (I hate the little yappy things), but I'll take it to training, etc. I won't be getting a pit, unless it's a mix. I'm one of those responsible people who pick up their dogs' shit. Since there are so many people who aren't responsible, or are ignorant, I'm for doing something legally about it.
Based on my recent experience, any dog can be a bitch, and any dog owner can, too. I'm less afraid of pit bulls than other dogs, but I wouldn't care if they banned the breed or required special licenses or something.
I'm a dog lover. I've never met a pit that wasn't submissive and friendly. BUT, people can't be trusted. One has to take special care with a big, powerful, aggressive, or whatever dog. This would include Rotts, Shepherds, etc. The next dog I get will be a big dog (I hate the little yappy things), but I'll take it to training, etc. I won't be getting a pit, unless it's a mix. I'm one of those responsible people who pick up their dogs' shit. Since there are so many people who aren't responsible, or are ignorant, I'm for doing something legally about it.
32
I was riding home the other day and a (fortunately leashed) pit bull being walked by a skinny guy leapt at me, growling. My heart skipped several beats. Thankfully the dog was on a leash, but the viciousness of the dog's temperament was apparent.
33
I donated to fight Prop 2 in Florida, and asked Dan this question: "Is there a later scientific peer-reviewed study supporting the efficacy of breed bans that forms (in part or whole) the foundation of your opinion?"
As part of my preamble, I explained that I have searched online for such a study, but could not find anything. I could only find the CDC study of 2000, which actually states that there is no such evidence. I was hoping that there might be a later study I could read.
Dan's response was
Now, I am ecstatic that he did NOT simply tell me off. However, he didn't really answer the question, as he doesn't cite any study in the UK or Denver. So I am left with the conclusion that No, Dan Savage does not base his opinions of breed bans on any scientific evidence.
What I find interesting is that he "doesn't trust the studies [I] cite." I believe there was a study in the UK that also concluded that there is no supporting evidence of the efficacy of breed bans. But he doesn't trust scientific research? What does he trust? His gut?
I find that his response, while deservedly terse, spoke volumes. His opinions on breed bans are simply that: opinions. He is neither more nor less correct than the rest of us. In fact, his opinions can be said to be faith-based, since he chooses to discount evidence that does not agree with his ideas.
As part of my preamble, I explained that I have searched online for such a study, but could not find anything. I could only find the CDC study of 2000, which actually states that there is no such evidence. I was hoping that there might be a later study I could read.
Dan's response was
breed bans have worked in the UK, and they work well in Denver. i don't trust the studies you cite.
all the best,
dan
Now, I am ecstatic that he did NOT simply tell me off. However, he didn't really answer the question, as he doesn't cite any study in the UK or Denver. So I am left with the conclusion that No, Dan Savage does not base his opinions of breed bans on any scientific evidence.
What I find interesting is that he "doesn't trust the studies [I] cite." I believe there was a study in the UK that also concluded that there is no supporting evidence of the efficacy of breed bans. But he doesn't trust scientific research? What does he trust? His gut?
I find that his response, while deservedly terse, spoke volumes. His opinions on breed bans are simply that: opinions. He is neither more nor less correct than the rest of us. In fact, his opinions can be said to be faith-based, since he chooses to discount evidence that does not agree with his ideas.
34
Look, ALL big dogs can be dangerous.
How does the story about the owner who lets her dangerous dog off leash in a park and then threatens this girl when he attacks disprove the theory that the problem is with the owners???
My dog (a pit mix) needed stitches when he was attacked in a completely unprovoked attack by a chow-lab mix. The other dog was not hurt.
How does the story about the owner who lets her dangerous dog off leash in a park and then threatens this girl when he attacks disprove the theory that the problem is with the owners???
My dog (a pit mix) needed stitches when he was attacked in a completely unprovoked attack by a chow-lab mix. The other dog was not hurt.
36
What I'd really like to know is a) how many of the "pit bulls" that are cited in these attacks are unneutered males? My guess would be nearly all of them - and b) are people who are attacked bringing the owner or the owner's insurance company into civil court for damages? Insurance companies could very quickly make it unattractive financially to own any kind of "dangerous" breed.
I've maintained for years that the solution is to ban UNNEUTERED and UNSPAYED individuals of potentially-dangerous breeds, unless you have a special breeder's license, which ideally would be very difficult to get - you'd have to prove that you were training the animals, properly securing them, treating them humanely, etc. But, frankly, I think no one should be able to own unaltered dogs and cats without such certification.
I've maintained for years that the solution is to ban UNNEUTERED and UNSPAYED individuals of potentially-dangerous breeds, unless you have a special breeder's license, which ideally would be very difficult to get - you'd have to prove that you were training the animals, properly securing them, treating them humanely, etc. But, frankly, I think no one should be able to own unaltered dogs and cats without such certification.
37
I miss my dog. He was a big giant mutt who loved everyone and was quick to mooch a snack off of ya. And just as quick he would eat those damn aggressive pitbulls. More dogs like "The Bear" and the world would be a better place.
38
Any Monkey could find a bunch of pit bull attacks and post about them. Colleen Lynn has an entire website dedicated to just that: (dogsbite.org...likely where Dan got his info). She posts studies that have been rejected by the scientific community knowing they are fallacious (Merrit Clifton, etc...but whatev...)
It's no secret that there is a media bias towards reporting on pit bull attacks.Just check out the National Canine Research Council if you don't want to take my word for it.
I am just happy that people who matter (Lawmakers and such) are making good decisions based in FACT and REASON. Even news outlets that matter are beginning to turn...CNN has run a few Pit-positive pieces and it will only get better from here!
Keep shooting at fishing in a barrel,Dan.. I'm sure it makes you feel like a big man in a little sweater vest:)
It's no secret that there is a media bias towards reporting on pit bull attacks.Just check out the National Canine Research Council if you don't want to take my word for it.
I am just happy that people who matter (Lawmakers and such) are making good decisions based in FACT and REASON. Even news outlets that matter are beginning to turn...CNN has run a few Pit-positive pieces and it will only get better from here!
Keep shooting at fishing in a barrel,Dan.. I'm sure it makes you feel like a big man in a little sweater vest:)
39
@36
In 2007 there were 33 fatalities by dogs/ 26 involved unaltered dogs....you raise a good point about Spay & Neuter.
I have a side project separate from FABB where I befriend street kids and help them get their dogs spayed/neutered, get medical care etc....mostly pits but not exclusively.
In 2007 there were 33 fatalities by dogs/ 26 involved unaltered dogs....you raise a good point about Spay & Neuter.
I have a side project separate from FABB where I befriend street kids and help them get their dogs spayed/neutered, get medical care etc....mostly pits but not exclusively.
40
@35, Google "CDC, breed, specific, legislation, study" and read for yourself. What I'm saying is that there is far too little scientific evidence out there, and people are resorting to faith-based arguments.
41
As someone who has actually had to stick my finger up a damn pit bull's but to make it let go of another dog's neck, I feel I have the authority to say:
Some people are dumb.
Some people are dumb.
43
Why doesn't it bother so many people when dogs maim and kill children? i dont' get it. I am in total support of anyone who wants to shoot one if threatened.
44
In the Bay Area Pits apparently kill their keepers in other ways.
From todays Chronicle
(06-04) 21:15 PDT HAYWARD, CALIF. -- A woman was struck and killed by an Amtrak train in Hayward on Thursday after the dog she was walking pulled her into its path, just hours after a man jumped in front of another Amtrak train in Berkeley, authorities said.
The woman was walking a pit bull terrier on Blossom Way about a mile north of the Hayward station around 2:15 p.m. The dog's owner, an 18-year-old man rode a bicycle around the crossing arms as the train approached, said Alameda County sheriff's Sgt. J.D. Nelson. The dog apparently began following its owner and pulled the woman into the train's path, Nelson said.
Both the woman and the dog died when they were hit by a Capitol Corridor train headed from Sacramento to San Jose, said Amtrak spokeswoman Vernaé Graham.
From todays Chronicle
(06-04) 21:15 PDT HAYWARD, CALIF. -- A woman was struck and killed by an Amtrak train in Hayward on Thursday after the dog she was walking pulled her into its path, just hours after a man jumped in front of another Amtrak train in Berkeley, authorities said.
The woman was walking a pit bull terrier on Blossom Way about a mile north of the Hayward station around 2:15 p.m. The dog's owner, an 18-year-old man rode a bicycle around the crossing arms as the train approached, said Alameda County sheriff's Sgt. J.D. Nelson. The dog apparently began following its owner and pulled the woman into the train's path, Nelson said.
Both the woman and the dog died when they were hit by a Capitol Corridor train headed from Sacramento to San Jose, said Amtrak spokeswoman Vernaé Graham.
46
My neighbor tried to rescue a pit (she's neither a lowlife or stupid) puppy she found abandoned. She had him fixed and he was okay for about a year. One day the dog decided the matron of the pack needed to die (she had two other rescues) and once the attacks started there was no stopping them. My neighbor put the dog to sleep and breaks into tears at just the mention of that damn thing. Before it happened she also believed in a media bias, actually she still does, but she also believes that at this point the breed has been mostly ruined and for it's own safety should be banned.
The neighbors on the other side of my block are not mean but are totally ambivalent owners. They have a big pack of dogs (2 unaltered pits, huge furry thing, lab, dachund) that are fenced (so far). The pits attacked the huge furry thing day before yesterday when the mailman was walking by. The woman was in the yard trying to break up the fight but after about 5 mins of listening to them attack that dog I was in tears and called 911. By the time they arrived the fight was broken up and the fluffy dog was no where to be found. The pits were in the front yard and one had blood on it. The animal control person walked right into the yard, totally unafraid! Knocked on the door about 5 times and no one ever answered. She told me that she was familiar with the dogs and that "they're nice dogs, they're just animal aggressive, not people aggressive." She noted to me that it looked like one of the pits had some cuts but seemed to be okay. She then drove off and did nothing (that I'm aware of). I haven't seen the fluffy dog since and have no idea if it's okay or not.
Total insanity.
The neighbors on the other side of my block are not mean but are totally ambivalent owners. They have a big pack of dogs (2 unaltered pits, huge furry thing, lab, dachund) that are fenced (so far). The pits attacked the huge furry thing day before yesterday when the mailman was walking by. The woman was in the yard trying to break up the fight but after about 5 mins of listening to them attack that dog I was in tears and called 911. By the time they arrived the fight was broken up and the fluffy dog was no where to be found. The pits were in the front yard and one had blood on it. The animal control person walked right into the yard, totally unafraid! Knocked on the door about 5 times and no one ever answered. She told me that she was familiar with the dogs and that "they're nice dogs, they're just animal aggressive, not people aggressive." She noted to me that it looked like one of the pits had some cuts but seemed to be okay. She then drove off and did nothing (that I'm aware of). I haven't seen the fluffy dog since and have no idea if it's okay or not.
Total insanity.
47
I think there is a bias against pits but if one attacks a person or a persons pet unprovoked (and I don't mean dogs playing and a fight breaks out, that shit happens) I have no problem putting them down. I wouldn't have a problem doing it right there in front of the owner with a gun.
48
I don't deny that pit bulls can and have attacked dogs, people, children, and probably other animals.
However, you are still speaking as though a percentage of the pit bulls exist are the same as all pit bulls. You must concede that not all of these dogs are vicious. Many pit bulls live their lives without incident.
To really have a convincing argument against owning this breed as a pet, you must examine the circumstances of each attack closely, examine the ownership, responsible vs. irresponsible breeding of the dog, and various other factors.
I urge you, do not put your considerable energy and intellect towards making people hate a dog breed. Your attentions would be much better spent making fun of/deploring the existence of those people who support irresponsible breeding and ownership of these dogs.
However, you are still speaking as though a percentage of the pit bulls exist are the same as all pit bulls. You must concede that not all of these dogs are vicious. Many pit bulls live their lives without incident.
To really have a convincing argument against owning this breed as a pet, you must examine the circumstances of each attack closely, examine the ownership, responsible vs. irresponsible breeding of the dog, and various other factors.
I urge you, do not put your considerable energy and intellect towards making people hate a dog breed. Your attentions would be much better spent making fun of/deploring the existence of those people who support irresponsible breeding and ownership of these dogs.
49
I don't know if we need a breed ban on pits, but perhaps we need laws requiring pits to be on a leash at all times.
50
@49
It is Law in King County that ALL DOGS must be leashed at ALL TIMES when off the owner's property. The problem is that few take this law seriously.
One aspect that FABB recommended to King County was to enforce this law and punish violators with heavy (200.00) fines. It would reduce the likelihood of attacks and generate revenue for King County.
Calgary has done this and dog bites are at an all-time low. They have a surplus of 4+ million dollars to care for the animals in their custody. Also their shelters never reach max capacity.In a recession, this would be a great way for King County to generate $$ and work towards public safety.
With the newly proposed law ANY dog(of any breed) that bites/acts menacingly towards a cat,dog or human off the owner's property will be deemed potentially dangerous & will have to adhere to:
1)Being muzzled in public at all times
2)Must be behind a six foot fence on the owner's property
3)must be spayed/neutered
There's more but I haven't seen it all.
The new law is harsh, but fair.
It is Law in King County that ALL DOGS must be leashed at ALL TIMES when off the owner's property. The problem is that few take this law seriously.
One aspect that FABB recommended to King County was to enforce this law and punish violators with heavy (200.00) fines. It would reduce the likelihood of attacks and generate revenue for King County.
Calgary has done this and dog bites are at an all-time low. They have a surplus of 4+ million dollars to care for the animals in their custody. Also their shelters never reach max capacity.In a recession, this would be a great way for King County to generate $$ and work towards public safety.
With the newly proposed law ANY dog(of any breed) that bites/acts menacingly towards a cat,dog or human off the owner's property will be deemed potentially dangerous & will have to adhere to:
1)Being muzzled in public at all times
2)Must be behind a six foot fence on the owner's property
3)must be spayed/neutered
There's more but I haven't seen it all.
The new law is harsh, but fair.
51
I think part of the dissilussion with pit bulls is that they may not physically displace that much space, but yes ... they are tougher and have higher energy than the space they occupy. You think they are apartment dogs, but they aren't.
Dumbasses.
And really, I can't get over how everyone is a critic and an authority on dog breeding. Dan Savage thought the Spud Mckenzie dog was pit bull.
jack asses.
Pit bulls and trash owners just make for sensational news stories ... period!
Ferral chuhuahua populations in Torrington CT. I remember my mother covered that story a four years ago. Vicious bastards in numbers. No one cared, and the link is now dead.
Sensationalism of pit bull attacks and their trashy irresponcible owners.
I still am suspect of the UNDERREPORTING of so called "calmer" breeds. A skittish dalmation bite. A collie, a shepherd, but these are family breeds settled among "good" families.
Spare me.
And next thing that is going to happen is that we are going to outlaw swimming pools because the number one cause of fatalities of children is drownings.
Dumbasses.
And really, I can't get over how everyone is a critic and an authority on dog breeding. Dan Savage thought the Spud Mckenzie dog was pit bull.
jack asses.
Pit bulls and trash owners just make for sensational news stories ... period!
Ferral chuhuahua populations in Torrington CT. I remember my mother covered that story a four years ago. Vicious bastards in numbers. No one cared, and the link is now dead.
Sensationalism of pit bull attacks and their trashy irresponcible owners.
I still am suspect of the UNDERREPORTING of so called "calmer" breeds. A skittish dalmation bite. A collie, a shepherd, but these are family breeds settled among "good" families.
Spare me.
And next thing that is going to happen is that we are going to outlaw swimming pools because the number one cause of fatalities of children is drownings.
52
I think part of the dissilussion with pit bulls is that they may not physically displace that much space, but yes ... they are tougher and have higher energy than the space they occupy. You think they are apartment dogs, but they aren't.
Dumbasses.
And really, I can't get over how everyone is a critic and an authority on dog breeding. Dan Savage thought the Spud Mckenzie dog was pit bull.
jack asses.
Pit bulls and trash owners just make for sensational news stories ... period!
Ferral chuhuahua populations in Torrington CT. I remember my mother covered that story a four years ago. Vicious bastards in numbers. No one cared, and the link is now dead.
Sensationalism of pit bull attacks and their trashy irresponcible owners.
I still am suspect of the UNDERREPORTING of so called "calmer" breeds. A skittish dalmation bite. A collie, a shepherd, but these are family breeds settled among "good" families.
Spare me.
And next thing that is going to happen is that we are going to outlaw swimming pools because the number one cause of fatalities of children is drownings.
Dumbasses.
And really, I can't get over how everyone is a critic and an authority on dog breeding. Dan Savage thought the Spud Mckenzie dog was pit bull.
jack asses.
Pit bulls and trash owners just make for sensational news stories ... period!
Ferral chuhuahua populations in Torrington CT. I remember my mother covered that story a four years ago. Vicious bastards in numbers. No one cared, and the link is now dead.
Sensationalism of pit bull attacks and their trashy irresponcible owners.
I still am suspect of the UNDERREPORTING of so called "calmer" breeds. A skittish dalmation bite. A collie, a shepherd, but these are family breeds settled among "good" families.
Spare me.
And next thing that is going to happen is that we are going to outlaw swimming pools because the number one cause of fatalities of children is drownings.
53
Pits attract careless, crappy owners and dogfighters. The dogs are not to blame so much as the owners.
My dog would have killed a cat given the chance when I first got him. I took the time to train him and ensured that he would never pose a threat to another animal. He has really improved and is able to co inhabit shared space with cats peacefully now, but I still watch him very carefully. If anything were to happen it would be my fault and I would feel hideous.
Convention has always been that once a dog tastes blood it should be put down, I firmly agree.
Sadly a number of fighting pits were dumped at our shelter last week and a number of good, adoptable, dogs were put down in order to make room for them. The man turning them in claimed that he had "found" them. Most will not come near a human and cower. Their bodies are covered in scars, ears mangled, and the smaller ones have open wounds. The most merciful thing would be to put them to sleep. I place the blame squarely with the humans and not the dogs. The dogs should be protected from the type of humans that want to own them. The feature should be renamed "Idiots that own pit bulls".
My dog would have killed a cat given the chance when I first got him. I took the time to train him and ensured that he would never pose a threat to another animal. He has really improved and is able to co inhabit shared space with cats peacefully now, but I still watch him very carefully. If anything were to happen it would be my fault and I would feel hideous.
Convention has always been that once a dog tastes blood it should be put down, I firmly agree.
Sadly a number of fighting pits were dumped at our shelter last week and a number of good, adoptable, dogs were put down in order to make room for them. The man turning them in claimed that he had "found" them. Most will not come near a human and cower. Their bodies are covered in scars, ears mangled, and the smaller ones have open wounds. The most merciful thing would be to put them to sleep. I place the blame squarely with the humans and not the dogs. The dogs should be protected from the type of humans that want to own them. The feature should be renamed "Idiots that own pit bulls".
54
I have 2 ckc pit bulls and i have 2 kids they get along just fine. They are the best dogs i have ever owned. the pit bulls attitude reflects the owners attitude. a lot of times people believe what they hear or see on t.v. they believe the media, my mother-in-law for instance believes that they are horrible b/c of the media. the rottwilers, dobermans, and german shepards are never mentioned yet german shepards are trained to attack people.
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