Find Your Valentine
Slog
News & ArtsThursday, June 4, 2009
Boom Classy
Posted by Dominic Holden on Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 6:05 PM
Folks are squabbling in comments about a story in this week's paper. Why, exactly, do neighbors oppose an extremely affordable housing development?
Quick background: Local developer Dirk Mulhair found that, under city permitting rules, he could squeeze eight single-occupancy apartments into one "town house." Over at 23rd Avenue East and East John Street, he is building six "town houses" that contain a total of 48 units—averaging only $550 a month, including all utilities, cable and internet—and city rules didn't require him to issue a public notice. Neighbors hit the roof. They had a few concerns, as described in the article: the lack of warning, the unprecedented density, and the impact on parking. However, the primary concern seemed that lower-class people will invade the neighborhood.
But a man claiming to be a neighbor quoted in the article, Alan Gossett, writes in comments, "The problem with this article is that it grossly misrepresents the legitimate concerns that the neighbors of this development project have ... I, and my fellow neighbors to which I’ve spoken, are neither 'anti-densification' nor 'anti-low income.'"
Sorry, Alan (or person claiming to be Alan), but I wrote about the "legitimate concerns" that neighbors shared with me—and City Council Member Sally Clark's sentiment that public notice should be required—but neighbors seemed especially opposed to the density and low-income residents.
These were some of the "legitimate concerns" Gossett raised... "I think this is going to be a magnet for very sketchy people," he said. He also rang off these zingers: “We are concerned about who moves in, worried about loss of security, and illegal activity" and "I am concerned about the negative impact on property values" and "Anyone who can scrape up enough money for month-to-month rent can live there."
Gossett added that he and other neighbors successfully blocked a proposal to convert vacant lots a half-block north of his house into 11 to 14 cottages. “We fought it and they are now empty lots. I’d like to see houses, but empty lots are better than 11 to 14 houses on them," he said.
Another neighbor, who asked not to be named, raised issues with people living in congregate housing without oversight. She also lamented that low-cost apartments would undercut the economy of the city as neighbors wish to develop it.
The article is over here.
2
This is important. The folks with very expensive single family homes have a monopoly in place -- the building codes. The code prevents cheaper housing. this keeps up the value of the monopoly goods, the expensive single family homes. It's a legal monopoly. Also known as a scam.
The developer in building smaller housing units is trying to satisfy the market. a/k/a the free market. but it's not fee because of the monopolistic housing codes.
How would you like it if there was a law saying you cannot buy one song on the internet you MUST buy 12 at a time? Fucking scam, right?
One feature of monopolies is lack of product diversity. Go to the store, there is fatty milk low fat milk chocolate milk, and milk in small containers if you can only afford 0.79 cents that day plus milk in gallon jugs is you want to spend more.
So the developer who is offering smaller size units is providing product diversity, trying to satisfy a market, and they won't let him.
Hell. Why require a kitchen at all, many people would be satisfied with a MW and a toaster oven and a sink. They would eat out a lot. They would add to the commercial bustle and vibrancy.
This is a monopoly like ancient monopolies -- it's feudal.
Oh btw the rich are fine with tiny housing when they go yachting around the world for a year. that's when small quarters are okay -- on a $500,000 sailboat.
Greedy snobs.
The developer in building smaller housing units is trying to satisfy the market. a/k/a the free market. but it's not fee because of the monopolistic housing codes.
How would you like it if there was a law saying you cannot buy one song on the internet you MUST buy 12 at a time? Fucking scam, right?
One feature of monopolies is lack of product diversity. Go to the store, there is fatty milk low fat milk chocolate milk, and milk in small containers if you can only afford 0.79 cents that day plus milk in gallon jugs is you want to spend more.
So the developer who is offering smaller size units is providing product diversity, trying to satisfy a market, and they won't let him.
Hell. Why require a kitchen at all, many people would be satisfied with a MW and a toaster oven and a sink. They would eat out a lot. They would add to the commercial bustle and vibrancy.
This is a monopoly like ancient monopolies -- it's feudal.
Oh btw the rich are fine with tiny housing when they go yachting around the world for a year. that's when small quarters are okay -- on a $500,000 sailboat.
Greedy snobs.
3
A number of "neighborhood activists" are racist. I saw it when covering the central district for neighborhood newspapers. White people who were "forced" to buy homes in the CD because they tragically could no longer afford Cap Hill banding together to call the police on their neighbors. That's certainly not all neighborhood activists. But neighborhood organizations, generally speaking, are composed of homeowners, and the more progressive ones don't stand up as much as they should against the reactionary bigots that try to use their power to oppose subsidized housing and push aggressive policing over social services in their neighborhoods.
4
I would freak if this popped up in my neighborhood too.
Want a snapshot of what this low income housing will look like in 5 years? Check out the development behind the Bitter Lake Home Depot. This developer is essentially dropping a future ghetto in the middle of a upper middle class neighborhood.
Want a snapshot of what this low income housing will look like in 5 years? Check out the development behind the Bitter Lake Home Depot. This developer is essentially dropping a future ghetto in the middle of a upper middle class neighborhood.
5
Does anyone else remember the house at 23rd and John (NE corner, I believe) that was covered with painted crazy-guy political slogans and a toilet seat for many years back in the 70s and 80s? Or the house on the opposite (SW) corner that was derelict and tumbling down for that time? And now they're worried about "sketchy people"?
Shit, you don't know a goddamn thing, dude.
Shit, you don't know a goddamn thing, dude.
6
These neighbors are idiots.
Why would a developer invest a shit ton of money on a housing project just to lease out rooms to renters that would destroy the place? The developer isn't going to turn a profit if his property is derelict and has to be rebuilt every few years. And $550? That's still way more than the $350 I was paying up in B'ham five years back. Now THAT is poor. And that place wasn't a haven for property devaluing hooligans and shenanigans.
Morons.
Why would a developer invest a shit ton of money on a housing project just to lease out rooms to renters that would destroy the place? The developer isn't going to turn a profit if his property is derelict and has to be rebuilt every few years. And $550? That's still way more than the $350 I was paying up in B'ham five years back. Now THAT is poor. And that place wasn't a haven for property devaluing hooligans and shenanigans.
Morons.
7
Are any of these sketchy tenants likely to be Negroes? See, I told you this would happen when they built light rail.
9
The idea just seems weird to me. Why not six rooms at $700-$800 each? Really poor folks can and do get Section 8. The real need is for young and working class people who may not qualify for S8 but can't afford $1000+/mo. I'm sure there will be a number of such renters at this development, but given the neighborhood's history--a couple blocks from worst crack zombie block in Seattle until Deano's finally died--the neighbors' alarm is totally understandable. Also, I hate to say it but anyone who goes on about the locals' racism and hatred of poor people either is not a cognitively competent adult or hasn't lived in a poor urban neighborhood.
10
"How would you like it if there was a law saying you cannot buy one song on the internet you MUST buy 12 at a time? Fucking scam, right?"
This from someone who probably uses Bit Torrents.
"White people who were "forced" to buy homes in the CD because they tragically could no longer afford Cap Hill banding together to call the police on their neighbors"
yes, god forbid they should try and shut down a friendly neighborhood crack house. How racist! Black parents love that sh*t next to their homes! How do I know? Cuz I'm a dumb f*ck white liberal Everegreen College grad who believes black folk love that gangsta sh*t around their kids! You know how I know that? Cuz black folks are all liberal like me and love drugs and crack houses in their hoods, keepin' it real!
This from someone who probably uses Bit Torrents.
"White people who were "forced" to buy homes in the CD because they tragically could no longer afford Cap Hill banding together to call the police on their neighbors"
yes, god forbid they should try and shut down a friendly neighborhood crack house. How racist! Black parents love that sh*t next to their homes! How do I know? Cuz I'm a dumb f*ck white liberal Everegreen College grad who believes black folk love that gangsta sh*t around their kids! You know how I know that? Cuz black folks are all liberal like me and love drugs and crack houses in their hoods, keepin' it real!
11
Wow, I love how people think that cheap rent equates with crackheads moving in.
Believe it or not, there are a lot of working class folks who don't make a lot of money, need a place to live, and aren't criminals.
I agree with the comment about zoning laws tending to favor the wealthy at the expense of everyone else. That's not what I want, and it's disheartening to see people supporting such regressive thinking in this city.
Believe it or not, there are a lot of working class folks who don't make a lot of money, need a place to live, and aren't criminals.
I agree with the comment about zoning laws tending to favor the wealthy at the expense of everyone else. That's not what I want, and it's disheartening to see people supporting such regressive thinking in this city.
12
This is just ridiculous. I have absolutely no sympathy for the NIMBY jackass neighbors quoted here.
I paid $225/month, utilities included, in Fremont not so many years ago (and moved out leaving the place in better condition than when I got there), and I wish there were lots more places like that around. How about if the single family, big yard houses can all move out to the shitty suburbs and we can have a real city here without them?
I paid $225/month, utilities included, in Fremont not so many years ago (and moved out leaving the place in better condition than when I got there), and I wish there were lots more places like that around. How about if the single family, big yard houses can all move out to the shitty suburbs and we can have a real city here without them?
15
"How about if the single family, big yard houses can all move out to the shitty suburbs and we can have a real city here without them?"
Then who'd pay the taxes jackass?
Then who'd pay the taxes jackass?
16
Oh, so this is what's going up there on 23rd... on the lot immediately north of two more apartment buildings. Do those existing buildings also terrify the neighbors with their density?
17
@15 the renters, who create profit for owners, who pay property taxes.
it is called "capitalism". it is the economic system used in the us.
it is called "capitalism". it is the economic system used in the us.
18
@15 pretty sure somebody would still own the land if all the scared white folk moved to the suburbs--so the property taxes would still be paid. and that 10% sales tax wouldn't go away either, now would it? donkey face.
19
@4 i'm guessing your referring to the aki kurose village just east of the home depot on aurora. if that's what you call a ghetto--young, low income families that might not look like you, i'm guessing you live in either magnolia or queen anne. if you live in seattle at all. that place is really not that bad. there is so much worse activity that takes place in the green belt just north of there or in the cemetery itself. funny, usually it's lower to middle class white men trying to score some drugs or a cheap lay that cause the most problems in that area.
20
I saw the place on 23rd yesterday, and at first I thought it was great. Then I was sort of sad because, in my day, $550 got you a nice one- bedroom in Pike/Pine with balcony, pool and kitchen, and I worry about the young people moving here and how much more expensive it is here than it used to be.
But then I thought, this is better than nothing - and who needs a kitchen when you're young?
And, for the record, I'm a homeowner. One of those hated single family homes, on a standard lot. We're not all assholes, you know.
But then I thought, this is better than nothing - and who needs a kitchen when you're young?
And, for the record, I'm a homeowner. One of those hated single family homes, on a standard lot. We're not all assholes, you know.
22
18
We've read this story before, Jackass, and it doesn't end like you said.
'White Flight' in the 60's sent scared homeowners to the 'burbs and, no, new property owners did not pick up the tab. The heart of American cities turned into deadzones.
We've read this story before, Jackass, and it doesn't end like you said.
'White Flight' in the 60's sent scared homeowners to the 'burbs and, no, new property owners did not pick up the tab. The heart of American cities turned into deadzones.
23
Well, 22, it wasn't as simple as you describe it, either. The suburbia movement was government-sponsored social engineering at its finest, yet some cities - Seattle, for instance - were left relatively unscathed. Even our "bad neighborhoods" have never been that bad.
Which is another reason why the people what have their panties in a wad over this are just being stupid.
Which is another reason why the people what have their panties in a wad over this are just being stupid.
24
@20 "And, for the record, I'm a homeowner. One of those hated single family homes, on a standard lot. We're not all assholes, you know."
The renters are just jealous of the homeowners. For realz!
The renters are just jealous of the homeowners. For realz!
25
99% of Sloggers are probably renters anyway, so their opinions carry no impact on our elected leaders; luckily they know who butters their toast.
26
@20 "And, for the record, I'm a homeowner. One of those hated single family homes, on a standard lot. We're not all assholes, you know."
The renters are just jealous of the homeowners. For realz!
The renters are just jealous of the homeowners. For realz!
27
I love it. I hope to see more of it.
They have a point: a little bit of cheap housing in an expensive city IS dangerous; but A LOT of affordable housing is safer and makes the community more vibrant and fun.
They have a point: a little bit of cheap housing in an expensive city IS dangerous; but A LOT of affordable housing is safer and makes the community more vibrant and fun.
28
Cheap shot, Dominic. You had your chance to slant the story to your point of view, which you did nicely. Mr. Gossett was able to respond in the comments. But now, because you have the power of being able to post to Slog, you can attack him again.
Get off your soapbox and let the facts, and Mr. Gossett, speak for themselves.
Get off your soapbox and let the facts, and Mr. Gossett, speak for themselves.
29
I'm a property OWNER, and I would love to have this kind of development in my single-family home neighborhood (Columbia City). The amount of market-rate rentals in my neighborhood is horribly low. Most of the apartment buildings are section 8 or otherwise subsidized, so people think that's what you get when rentals are built. This is a direct result of the neighborhoods fighting density for decades (80s and 90s) and the inevitable concentration of low income residents into the few buildings they can still afford. It's called a DIVERSE housing stock (subsidized, cheap market-rate, owners, large owners), and it's what makes a city a vibrant, diverse, and economically resilient place. It's also something Seattle sorely LACKS.
There are plenty of young workers who need affordable housing in the city, and don't need any kind of subsidy if the units are priced reasonably. This development fills that need. Good call on the part of the developer. The neighbors have no PROactive plan to address the need for inexpensive market rate rentals in the city, and they're trying to protect an unsustainable neighborhood model (single family homes with big yards) less than 5 minutes from downtown. Where do they imagine the magic line is that divides the dense "city" they live in from their neighborhood. If they want their big houses and big yards and no threat of adjacent development/density, they should move out of the city. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
There are plenty of young workers who need affordable housing in the city, and don't need any kind of subsidy if the units are priced reasonably. This development fills that need. Good call on the part of the developer. The neighbors have no PROactive plan to address the need for inexpensive market rate rentals in the city, and they're trying to protect an unsustainable neighborhood model (single family homes with big yards) less than 5 minutes from downtown. Where do they imagine the magic line is that divides the dense "city" they live in from their neighborhood. If they want their big houses and big yards and no threat of adjacent development/density, they should move out of the city. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
30
what ever happened to the pilot project in south east seattle that was permitting single family home owners to turn garages and outbuildings into livable homes? seemed like a great way to add density without unnecessarily tearing down single family homes. detractors complained originally that the outbuildings were too close to the property line and that noise and parking would be an issue. haven't heard an update on it since last summer. both of these ideas seem like great ways to add relatively inexpensive rentals to mostly single family home neighborhoods.
31
I wish I could be a homeowner. I have just never been given the opportunity to work at a job that allows me that type of income. I have solid qualifications and education, but can't crack some mysterious career code in Seattle. I live in Capitol Hill, pay a suitable rent in a wonderful location and would like to think that I could move to this neighborhood with that wonderful rent (affordable to me).
It is disheartening to hear that the neighbors automatically assume that anyone who wants to live there is sinister and nefarious. I work hard at my job and in this community and I am proud of this. Besides, to live in an apartment anywhere you have to pass some sort of credit/background/reference check. Right?
I would think living in that neighborhood would further boost my city pride and entrench my interests in making it a safer community. The people with an issue with this possible influx of new renters disguise their bigotry with density issues when they are basic bigots who don't respect other people's humanity
It is disheartening to hear that the neighbors automatically assume that anyone who wants to live there is sinister and nefarious. I work hard at my job and in this community and I am proud of this. Besides, to live in an apartment anywhere you have to pass some sort of credit/background/reference check. Right?
I would think living in that neighborhood would further boost my city pride and entrench my interests in making it a safer community. The people with an issue with this possible influx of new renters disguise their bigotry with density issues when they are basic bigots who don't respect other people's humanity
32
It used to be that we had whites only restrictions in most Seattle neighborhoods. The argument wasn't that black people were bad. Only that their presence would take down property values. Replace "black" with "low-income" (regardless of race), and you see the same politics at play today.
But since you can't formally discriminate like you could before the Fair Housing Act of 1968, bigots use restrictive zoning rather than covenants to drive up the costs of housing and thereby ensure that their neighborhoods remain financially (and oh by the way racially) exclusive. While the stereotypes they invoke about the threat posed to their neighborhood by low-income renters are almost always racially coded with anti-black stereotypes, they like to remind us that they are "race blind" and happy to discriminate against low-income white, Asian, and latino people as well. Which I guess is supposed to reassure us that their intentions are laudable.
But since you can't formally discriminate like you could before the Fair Housing Act of 1968, bigots use restrictive zoning rather than covenants to drive up the costs of housing and thereby ensure that their neighborhoods remain financially (and oh by the way racially) exclusive. While the stereotypes they invoke about the threat posed to their neighborhood by low-income renters are almost always racially coded with anti-black stereotypes, they like to remind us that they are "race blind" and happy to discriminate against low-income white, Asian, and latino people as well. Which I guess is supposed to reassure us that their intentions are laudable.
33
"I have just never been given the opportunity to work at a job that allows me that type of income."
Well, that's because nobody is require to GIVE you squat. You have to earn it. Haven't cracked the code? Tough sh*t, don't expect me to pay your rent. Get off the Cap Hill and move down the Rainier Valley. Don't stop til you get to Renton.
Well, that's because nobody is require to GIVE you squat. You have to earn it. Haven't cracked the code? Tough sh*t, don't expect me to pay your rent. Get off the Cap Hill and move down the Rainier Valley. Don't stop til you get to Renton.
34
Dominic, I'm disappointed in you. That's fine if you disagree with the people who live next to this project, but your article is clearly slanted and doesn't really present a balanced view of their concerns, or what SROs add or detract to a neighborhood. It would have been nice to include more information about Calhoun (what types of properties do the have? Are they well managed? What do the neighbors of these places think of them?), and also some historical perspective - 23rd/John and environs has had its ups and downs over the years. Now that Deano's is FINALLY gone, there's been a marked improvement in safety. Suddenly there's a boarding house going in, and I can imagine that people nearby have some legitimate concerns.
I also take issue with your implication that the neighbors are classist. 23rd/John is not by any means a fancy neighborhood. There is, and has been for many years, a mix of single-family houses (some of them pricey), condos, apartment buildings, lower-cost single family homes or house converted to apartments, and houses that should probably be condemned (seriously, what is up with that house at 21st and John...). There are also at least two places that I know of that house people in recovery. There is a mix of incomes and housing styles already, so I don't know how people who live there are suddenly "classist" because of this new project. If a developer said they were building a six-pack next to my house and suddenly I found out that it's basically a boarding house for 48 people, I'd have some concerns, too. Instead, from your article it's pretty clear that you made your mind up about the situation and wrote this to support your conclusion without a balanced presentation of facts or opinions. As such, it doesn't really add much to the conversation around density and development, and I'll read your other posts on this issue with much more skepticism.
More...
I also take issue with your implication that the neighbors are classist. 23rd/John is not by any means a fancy neighborhood. There is, and has been for many years, a mix of single-family houses (some of them pricey), condos, apartment buildings, lower-cost single family homes or house converted to apartments, and houses that should probably be condemned (seriously, what is up with that house at 21st and John...). There are also at least two places that I know of that house people in recovery. There is a mix of incomes and housing styles already, so I don't know how people who live there are suddenly "classist" because of this new project. If a developer said they were building a six-pack next to my house and suddenly I found out that it's basically a boarding house for 48 people, I'd have some concerns, too. Instead, from your article it's pretty clear that you made your mind up about the situation and wrote this to support your conclusion without a balanced presentation of facts or opinions. As such, it doesn't really add much to the conversation around density and development, and I'll read your other posts on this issue with much more skepticism.
35
"I also take issue with your implication that the neighbors are classist. "
What's wrong with being classist? You want trailer trash to run this country?
What's wrong with being classist? You want trailer trash to run this country?
37
i suppose the neighbors are fully aware that they have been living next to a subsidized housing project that sets a limit on a tenants income. what type of housing do you call that? yeah, mr gossett...poor people housing. have you had a problem with that place? you may not know the one i speak of but it is the large dark colored apartment complex at the corner of your alley and e john. i suspect you did not even know the background on that building but with what mr. mulhair is building, how is his development any different? have you bothered to meet mr. mulhair? why don't you try that.
Advertisement
Most Commented on Slog
-
SL Letter of the Day: Daddy Loves Who? by Dan Savage
-
SL Letter of the Day: Life Sentence by Dan Savage
-
Crowdsourcing Uncut Police Video from the Dec. 12 Occupy Protest at the Port of Seattle by Eli Sanders
-
Slog Bible Study: Deuteronomy 21:10-14 by Goldy
-
The AP Is Reporting That Whitney Houston Is Dead by Paul Constant
-
The Onion Is on a Roll: "Iran Worried U.S. Might Be Building 8,500th Nuclear Weapon" by Charles Mudede
-
Announcing The Stranger's Tournament of Dunces! Who's the Dumbest Representative in the State House? by Christopher Frizzelle
-
Survey Says: Cyclists Would Rather Give Up Sex Than Their Bikes by Bethany Jean Clement
-
Stranger Tournament of Dunces, Match 3: Rep. Mark Hargrove vs. Rep. Norma Smith by Eli Sanders
-
Rachel Maddow Uncovered the Secret Ron Paul Strategy by Paul Constant
RSS
Facebook
Twitter
Comments (37) RSS