Find Your Valentine
Slog
News & ArtsWednesday, June 3, 2009
Sex / Hetero / Religion Lest They Be Accused of Biased Reporting On Divisive Social Issues...
Posted by Dan Savage on Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 1:05 PM
The Whidbey News-Times must have a story in the works about a couple who did everything "wrong"—met at a club, made out on the dance floor, had a one-night stand, indulged in shitloads of premarital sex, maybe had a few drunken threeways—but nevertheless fell in love, married, and lived happily ever after. Right? Something to balance out this story glorifying an area couple who decided to abstain—from everything—until marriage?
The couple instated a “no-kissing” policy, to keep things from getting out of hand before marriage. [Rachel] Welch decided at age 14 to save kissing for someone special, and hoped that her first lip-lock would shortly follow “I do.” ... She met her fiance at Oak Harbor’s Living Word Fellowship two years ago, where they each worked as youth leaders. Along with telling kids about the importance of abstinence, they took their own message to heart.
Instead of a smooch, [Todd] Ritter says they will rub their noses together, sometimes nicknamed an “Eskimo kiss.” And to avoid temptation while dating, they limit the amount of alone time they spend together.... The two will also exchange foot massages or run errands for each other. Living only two miles apart, they pen and mail love letters to one another.
There are lots of happily coupled people out there who had "yes-to-everything" policies when they were young & single. But profiling a settled, content, thriving couple who did everything "wrong" before marriage wouldn't play to the prejudices and wishful thinking of a small-minded, small-town daily readers—true love waits, sluts don't, so sluts never find true love—so I kind doubt that the Whidbey News-Times has a story in the works about a couple of sluts in love. But I put in a call just to check. At the very least the Whidbey News-Times owes it to the readers to follow this couple for a few years and provide regular updates. Young evangelicals divorce at greater rates than non-batshit Americans. Will Rachel and Todd beat the odds?
And if it turns out that Todd has a foot fetish... was he really abstaining?
1
Both myself and my husband were total sluts before we met, and while we dated, and now that we are married (now we just happen to be sluts exculsivly with eachother). We are totally confident in our relationship because we know both of us have tried everything and we dont have to worry about either of us ever wanting something else/more cause well we've been there done that so to speak. Slut pride!!! Now where's my parade?
2
If both of those people are truly committed to each other, make the efforts to communicate effectively, and really love each other enough to work all of their possible issues out, I think they'll work out fine.
3
This is in the news because it's so fucking bizarre. Eskimo kisses? Love letters? What a couple of weirdos. Sluts are a dime a dozen, but people like this are rare and should be gawked at.
4
Why do I have the feeling that we haven't heard the last of them...
Seems like the type that may wind up in any one of Dan's continuing series - and if they ever do have children, sadly they could very well fit there too.
Seems like the type that may wind up in any one of Dan's continuing series - and if they ever do have children, sadly they could very well fit there too.
6
What an odd couple. You could make the argument that the reason this is newsworthy is because it's relatively rare. What is it, something like 95% of married people in America have had premarital sex, why report on something that common? Besides, I don't see anything in the language of the article that glorifies their choices and behavior. Let the weirdos live in peace, Dan.
7
why do papers print drivel like that in a tone implying such behavior is praiseworthy. This isn't 1862, for cryin' out loud. Get real. That's an insult to all normal Americans & that profiled couple are a couple of freaks.
p.s. @1 I'd join in your parade. I have a similar story and a most happy marriage. Yay to us!
p.s. @1 I'd join in your parade. I have a similar story and a most happy marriage. Yay to us!
8
She is 21! She couldn't wait till she was at least out of college at 22 or 23? I heard of people so desperate to have sex they get married way too young.
Why doesn't it chastise them for getting married so young? It is a fun gawking story. Look how crazy some people are.
Why doesn't it chastise them for getting married so young? It is a fun gawking story. Look how crazy some people are.
9
I think their story is sweet. I don't care how they decided to do their courtship, it isn't any of my business. I wish them joy.
10
KING or KONG (or both) ran this story last weekend. The segment was truly nauseating since they actually showed the "eskimo kissing." I think the person who thought this should be on local TV news is at least as weird as this couple.
11
Geez Dan, it's a family newspaper. Think of the children. Running features about people who aren't having sex is fine, but features about people who do ... good God! A child might read it! (Of course, a child might also read stories about murder, rape, assault, and drugs, but that's different. Somehow.)
At least, this was the explanation I got when I argued that a veiled quote about geriatric sex should be included in a feature I was writing for a "family newspaper."
At least, this was the explanation I got when I argued that a veiled quote about geriatric sex should be included in a feature I was writing for a "family newspaper."
12
Who gives a shit! If it works for them, great, but the only way I could possibly care is if these freaks were sponsoring an initiative making their hands-off courtship the law of the land.
14
In high school I sought out girls who wanted to save themselves for true love. It was awesome! Mostly be because it saved me the trouble of having to face my homosexuality since I could play along with the charade that suited my purposes. He may be straight and she may not be gullible. But if I were her I'd be wondering why a young guy at or near his hormonal peak so easily chose this path -- and how and where he's channeling all that sexual energy.
15
I always think guys like this have really small dicks and hide the fact from an inexperienced girl until it's too late for her to back out.
16
@ Kim in Portland-
The problem is that the kind of sexual repression that it takes to make someone unwilling to so much as kiss before marriage can have serious repercussions on their mental and sexual health. Yes, they found each other, and it seems to be working out for now because they both happened to have the same rules. But they could still have awful shame issues, even after marriage. They may have gotten married in too big a hurry because their genitals were about to explode. They may not have connected as much as a couple should before getting married, and their connectedness may be further stunted by an (albeit mutual) unhealthy fear of sex.
And when they have kids, and raise them with the same "no kissing or eye contact until marriage" rules, those kids are not likely to find such a match for themselves.
I'm skeptical about people who wait until marriage before sex, but I'll often give those people the benefit of the doubt, and I'm open to the possibility that they may have a healthy sex life after they're married. But waiting until marriage before you will KISS is just too significant a sign of huge sexual hangups. I feel like, in this case, the benefit of the doubt is just not realistic.
Not that I'm calling for their forced divorce or anything; let them be, etc. But I wouldn't bet on this marriage lasting.
The problem is that the kind of sexual repression that it takes to make someone unwilling to so much as kiss before marriage can have serious repercussions on their mental and sexual health. Yes, they found each other, and it seems to be working out for now because they both happened to have the same rules. But they could still have awful shame issues, even after marriage. They may have gotten married in too big a hurry because their genitals were about to explode. They may not have connected as much as a couple should before getting married, and their connectedness may be further stunted by an (albeit mutual) unhealthy fear of sex.
And when they have kids, and raise them with the same "no kissing or eye contact until marriage" rules, those kids are not likely to find such a match for themselves.
I'm skeptical about people who wait until marriage before sex, but I'll often give those people the benefit of the doubt, and I'm open to the possibility that they may have a healthy sex life after they're married. But waiting until marriage before you will KISS is just too significant a sign of huge sexual hangups. I feel like, in this case, the benefit of the doubt is just not realistic.
Not that I'm calling for their forced divorce or anything; let them be, etc. But I wouldn't bet on this marriage lasting.
17
I've known two or three Christian couples who refused to have sex before marriage and then ended up rushing into marriage because they were impatient to have sex.
18
If it works out, fair play to 'em, but I am deeply suspicious of the no-kissing thing. What if they tie the knot and then decide they hate the taste of each other's spit? Or one of them chews the other's tongue with undue vigour? And this is before they even get to the whole sexual compatibility thing. I guess the 'good' thing about evangelical sexuality is the default assumption of procreative, vanilla sex, thereby avoiding any awkward, 'So, what are you (theoretically) into?' convos between virginal engagees.
20
This guy is:
-gay
-getting some on the side
-a chronic masturbator
-a porn addict
-some or all of the above
And invariably, he will get caught- sending their relationship into a death spiral leading into divorce or soul crushing disfunction (with kids!).
Mark my words.
-gay
-getting some on the side
-a chronic masturbator
-a porn addict
-some or all of the above
And invariably, he will get caught- sending their relationship into a death spiral leading into divorce or soul crushing disfunction (with kids!).
Mark my words.
21
@ Kim in Portland. I agree that it is "cute" ... however, why is it newsworthy?
I also agree that the "wait till your married" mentality leads far too many young, devoutly religious people to marry at far too young an age. Having never been in a relationship, how can they really know what they want from one?
This is their first experience with the opposite sex, with a relationship of this nature and they are throwing themselves into the deep end with no experience.
I'm sorry, but like with most things in this world, relationships take practice and experience to be truly successful. Perhaps they will get that with each other, chances are slim ... but you never know ... it will be rough for them for a while either, that's for sure.
They might seem to have the same ideas and beliefs now ... but once they are living together and married, when there is more involved, more obligation, more pressure, shared bills, shared household ... etc.
Scary really. Could imagine jumping into that without all of your past experiences?
I also agree that the "wait till your married" mentality leads far too many young, devoutly religious people to marry at far too young an age. Having never been in a relationship, how can they really know what they want from one?
This is their first experience with the opposite sex, with a relationship of this nature and they are throwing themselves into the deep end with no experience.
I'm sorry, but like with most things in this world, relationships take practice and experience to be truly successful. Perhaps they will get that with each other, chances are slim ... but you never know ... it will be rough for them for a while either, that's for sure.
They might seem to have the same ideas and beliefs now ... but once they are living together and married, when there is more involved, more obligation, more pressure, shared bills, shared household ... etc.
Scary really. Could imagine jumping into that without all of your past experiences?
22
@16 Give it a rest. Different strokes for different folks.
"The problem is that the kind of sexual repression that it takes to make someone unwilling to so much as kiss before marriage can have serious repercussions on their mental and sexual health"
Says who? What a load of BS psychobabble.
23
Jules: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa... stop right there. Eatin' a bitch out, and givin' a bitch a foot massage ain't even the same fuckin' thing.
Vincent: It's not. It's the same ballpark.
Jules: Ain't no fuckin' ballpark neither. Now look, maybe your method of massage differs from mine, but, you know, touchin' his wife's feet, and stickin' your tongue in her Holiest of Holies, ain't the same fuckin' ballpark, it ain't the same league, it ain't even the same fuckin' sport. Look, foot massages don't mean shit.
Vincent: Have you ever given a foot massage?
Jules: [scoffs] Don't be tellin' me about foot massages. I'm the foot fuckin' master.
Vincent: Given a lot of 'em?
Jules: Shit yeah. I got my technique down and everything, I don't be ticklin' or nothin'.
Vincent: Would you give a guy a foot massage?
[Jules gives Vincent a long look, realizing he's been set up]
Jules: Fuck you.
Vincent: It's not. It's the same ballpark.
Jules: Ain't no fuckin' ballpark neither. Now look, maybe your method of massage differs from mine, but, you know, touchin' his wife's feet, and stickin' your tongue in her Holiest of Holies, ain't the same fuckin' ballpark, it ain't the same league, it ain't even the same fuckin' sport. Look, foot massages don't mean shit.
Vincent: Have you ever given a foot massage?
Jules: [scoffs] Don't be tellin' me about foot massages. I'm the foot fuckin' master.
Vincent: Given a lot of 'em?
Jules: Shit yeah. I got my technique down and everything, I don't be ticklin' or nothin'.
Vincent: Would you give a guy a foot massage?
[Jules gives Vincent a long look, realizing he's been set up]
Jules: Fuck you.
27
You have to admit that there isn't anything interesting about a fuckathon turning into a successful marriage, whether or not that marriage has open aspects to it. While I personally find this couple to be disgustingly lame as hell, they definitely show a ton of discipline, and live in a world that's not only alien to me, but it's hard to even fathom. It was an interesting read.
Reading about people fucking each others brains out, or people who do tons of drugs, or fucked the shit out of a bunch of people while they were on drugs and still fucking each other, or some fags who fell in love at first site and secured that love with some instant buttsex, or anything else that tells the typical tale of our youth's insufferably endless boredom with anything that isn't instant and/or extreme, and lack of control, or some control, or semi-somewhat, or whatever, fucking sucks. You don't need to even anything out with those stories. Those stories are not special. And I know that deep down inside, you think these two fucking losers are losers, and they are, and they should die for it, but they're interesting, and, once again, disciplined. We are and/or were not. We'd be interesting if we weren't copy/pasted all over the country 9,000 times over, gay or straight. Deal.
Reading about people fucking each others brains out, or people who do tons of drugs, or fucked the shit out of a bunch of people while they were on drugs and still fucking each other, or some fags who fell in love at first site and secured that love with some instant buttsex, or anything else that tells the typical tale of our youth's insufferably endless boredom with anything that isn't instant and/or extreme, and lack of control, or some control, or semi-somewhat, or whatever, fucking sucks. You don't need to even anything out with those stories. Those stories are not special. And I know that deep down inside, you think these two fucking losers are losers, and they are, and they should die for it, but they're interesting, and, once again, disciplined. We are and/or were not. We'd be interesting if we weren't copy/pasted all over the country 9,000 times over, gay or straight. Deal.
31
*9,000,000,000,000,000 (it's been done at least this many times if we count all of ever)
Really. It's like writing about an alcoholic. If Faye Dunaway isn't stealing raw corn and then crying about it, IT ISN'T INTERESTING OR NOTEWORTHY.
Really. It's like writing about an alcoholic. If Faye Dunaway isn't stealing raw corn and then crying about it, IT ISN'T INTERESTING OR NOTEWORTHY.
33
It's all part of the princess fantasy some women have around their weddings...she didn't kiss anyone because she wanted her "I do" kiss to be extra special. Some women can't think about anything in life except their wedding day, and it leads to ridiculous decisions like this.
And the guy? Yeah, he's gay. Gay, gay, gay.
And the guy? Yeah, he's gay. Gay, gay, gay.
34
I've known a couple guys who married virgins. She wanted to wait, he respected her, he thought it was sweet and endearing that he got to be first. And guess what... they married women who don't like sex very much. Let's hear it for post-marital virgins!
35
Super. These people will have no idea whatsoever if they are even remotely sexually compatible until after they are married.
More likely than not, they'll be divorced within a year.
More likely than not, they'll be divorced within a year.
36
This is disgusting. While I'm not saying it ought to be prohibited by law, it's still fucked up.
These two are so sexually repressed, I doubt that, when they actually do get married, they'll actually be able to have sex on that wedding night of theirs, and I'm even less inclined to think they'll ever have GOOD sex, considering their relationship to their own sexuality.
These two are so sexually repressed, I doubt that, when they actually do get married, they'll actually be able to have sex on that wedding night of theirs, and I'm even less inclined to think they'll ever have GOOD sex, considering their relationship to their own sexuality.
37
And just look, Dan. Look at everyone in this thread, so sure, so convinced that there's no way this couple could possibly be happy. Because it doesn't match up to their lives. To their world. Their beliefs. Their cause. He's gay, she's selfish, they're both going to split because they haven't tested the field. All these positive models we have for them!
They actually should run a slut-fest story with a happy ending. Then you could post it on Slog and watch EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THIS COMMENT THREAD rage over the negative comments people post in that article about that couple.
Lulz ensues! Hahaha!
They actually should run a slut-fest story with a happy ending. Then you could post it on Slog and watch EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THIS COMMENT THREAD rage over the negative comments people post in that article about that couple.
Lulz ensues! Hahaha!
38
Dan,
Me and the girl met at a movie theater and were boning within a week. And we kept up the boning for five years.
We're getting married Saturday. Here's to boning.
There's hope for the sluts out there!
Me and the girl met at a movie theater and were boning within a week. And we kept up the boning for five years.
We're getting married Saturday. Here's to boning.
There's hope for the sluts out there!
39
Bonefish @ 16, You could be correct, one or both of them may be repressed.
Take it all in @ 21, I don't think it is newsworthy, just interesting.
I don't know anything about these two. I didn't choose their path, I did not marry in white. I know of a couple, who had a courtship like theirs and are still married. Who knows their future? I can't tell you what I'll be doing an hour from now, but whatever the future holds it will include whiskey. Be it Irish, Scotch, or Burbon I haven't a clue.
Take it all in @ 21, I don't think it is newsworthy, just interesting.
I don't know anything about these two. I didn't choose their path, I did not marry in white. I know of a couple, who had a courtship like theirs and are still married. Who knows their future? I can't tell you what I'll be doing an hour from now, but whatever the future holds it will include whiskey. Be it Irish, Scotch, or Burbon I haven't a clue.
40
Well it's not like they're going to know what their missing.
Allegedly, religious people self-report better sex lives than us heathens. I suspect it's because they really just don't know any better and thus have fewer reasons to feel dissatisfied.
I'm even less inclined to think they'll ever have GOOD sex, considering their relationship to their own sexuality.
Well it's not like they're going to know what their missing.
Allegedly, religious people self-report better sex lives than us heathens. I suspect it's because they really just don't know any better and thus have fewer reasons to feel dissatisfied.
42
He should fuck her in the ass on the wedding day and smack the bitch around a little. You know how possesive these evangelical guys are towards their women. Oh and never allow her to leave the house without his permission. In addition to making her walk on his left side because if he had a sword it would be on his right.
43
Hmm, sounds just like 1950's when teenagers married the summer right after they graduated high-school. Too bad raging teen hormones don't make a good foundation for a life-time of marriage. Their lousy marriages are the reason their kids (the baby boomers) were the (original) divorce and pre-marital sex generation. The kids saw how miserable their parents were forced to stay with their high-school sweetie/first-and-only fuck and decided that would never be them...
...which is why 70's were such fun...
...or at least that's what my parents/aunts/uncles/hippie family friends state.
People really never do learn anything from other people's mistakes, do they?
...which is why 70's were such fun...
...or at least that's what my parents/aunts/uncles/hippie family friends state.
People really never do learn anything from other people's mistakes, do they?
44
@ 42,
Why would he fuck her in the ass? He's probably been doing that all through high-school. Popping her cherry and kissing her (on the lips at least) is probably a novelty.
Why would he fuck her in the ass? He's probably been doing that all through high-school. Popping her cherry and kissing her (on the lips at least) is probably a novelty.
45
Interesting story, kind of reminds me of Carla Funk's poem "Bundling". Cute in an old-fashioned kind of way.
But I am disturbed by this line, spoken by the husband-to-be (who has kissed other girls before, by the way):
“I think it’s awesome the respect she has for herself.”
I understand what he's saying: she's self-possessed and confident about protecting her boundaries. Fine; more young women should be.
But what kind of culture do we/they live in, that a girl must wait until she's 21 and married before she can kiss a boy, in order to truly respect herself? What does that tell you about this couple's attitudes toward female sexuality?
Not good.
But I am disturbed by this line, spoken by the husband-to-be (who has kissed other girls before, by the way):
“I think it’s awesome the respect she has for herself.”
I understand what he's saying: she's self-possessed and confident about protecting her boundaries. Fine; more young women should be.
But what kind of culture do we/they live in, that a girl must wait until she's 21 and married before she can kiss a boy, in order to truly respect herself? What does that tell you about this couple's attitudes toward female sexuality?
Not good.
46
Irena - that is a great point. As if having sex before marriage means you couldn't possibly respect yourself.
47
They sound like they would fit right in with the Shakers.
Remember them? Besides the design style, they were known for no sex or sexual contact EVER. Not even for procreation. Their group would grow by people joining them. Needless to say they pretty much died out.
Remember them? Besides the design style, they were known for no sex or sexual contact EVER. Not even for procreation. Their group would grow by people joining them. Needless to say they pretty much died out.
48
cute, but at the same time a little creepy and/or boring. the absolute and total denial of the physical gives it an artificial level of importance.
49
I'm surprised that no one has brought this up yet:
What's the difference between "eskimo kissing" and kissing? My boyfriend and I rub noses a lot. And I think it as just as intimate a moment for us as kissing (at least non-french kissing).
To me their kissing virgins just as much as people who've had oral and/or anal sex but not vaginal sex are sex virgins: which is to say not at all!!
So I don't see a point to this and, if anything, it's detrimental to the chances of success for the relationship. But at the end, I don't even think that matters because eskimo kissing IS kissing!!!
What's the difference between "eskimo kissing" and kissing? My boyfriend and I rub noses a lot. And I think it as just as intimate a moment for us as kissing (at least non-french kissing).
To me their kissing virgins just as much as people who've had oral and/or anal sex but not vaginal sex are sex virgins: which is to say not at all!!
So I don't see a point to this and, if anything, it's detrimental to the chances of success for the relationship. But at the end, I don't even think that matters because eskimo kissing IS kissing!!!
50
Regardless of all the comments bashing these people, I find their love appealing. Maybe it's because I've had a lot of sex, and I've realized that it doesn't do much for me most of the time... What really appeals is that sweet, affectionate bonding, and when all the energy is focused on that, it's like all the benefits of a relationship is focused on the thing I like the best.
So yeah. Gawk at me at will.
So yeah. Gawk at me at will.
51
The Stranger must have a story in the works about a foie gras farm that does everything "wrong"—mistreats animals, allows the meat to become fouled with bacteria, ruins the local environment with farming waste runoff - and yet nevertheless supplies their product to local restaurants. Right? Something to balance out the stories glorifying the production of foie gras as a delightful trip to a Disney-esque farm. Right? RIGHT?
52
@50 Are you a porn star? Apparently because porn stars have so much sex as part of their jobs, they find non-sexual intimacy so much more appealing at home. I suppose the same might be said for garden variety sluts... but it's an interesting concept that one can become so oversexed that you would circle back around to where these two are in their relationship.
53
Isn't there something in the bible condemning whorish lipstick? *That* part didn't seem to make it through.
54
Huh. That's my hometown paper. In fact, I went to school with the guy's older brother. The brother was a nice guy - seemed pretty mainstream/normal/whatever.
Oak Harbor is a weird place. And the Whidbey News Times is not exactly a hallmark of journalism. Stuff like this is about par for the course
Oak Harbor is a weird place. And the Whidbey News Times is not exactly a hallmark of journalism. Stuff like this is about par for the course
56
My three hard-core baptist cousins all got married before they hit 21. It's not that hard to abstain from sex if you marry the first person you seriously want to have sex with.
And they don't believe in divorce. So that'll be fun.
And they don't believe in divorce. So that'll be fun.
Advertisement
Most Commented on Slog
-
SL Letter of the Day: Pill The Homos! by Dan Savage
-
The AP Is Reporting That Whitney Houston Is Dead by Paul Constant
-
Slog Bible Study: Deuteronomy 21:10-14 by Goldy
-
Because Guns Make Us Safer by Goldy
-
SL Letter of the Day: Daddy Loves Who? by Dan Savage
-
Gregoire: "This is signed!" by Eli Sanders
-
Gay Kids Are Still Killing Themselves by Dan Savage
-
Whitney Is Dead, And So Is Hollywood by Kelly O
-
Planned Parenthood Exposed! by David Schmader
-
Stranger Tournament of Dunces, Match 3: Rep. Mark Hargrove vs. Rep. Norma Smith by Eli Sanders
RSS
Facebook
Twitter
Comments (58) RSS