Find Your Valentine
Slog
News & ArtsWednesday, June 3, 2009
News I'm On The Cop's Side
Posted by Dan Savage on Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 1:18 PM
A man lets his two pit bulls run off leash in front of a high school on a Sunday morning, in violation of city leash laws, and a passing cop stops and tells him to leash his fucking dogs. One of the dogs—only nine months old, but weighing in at 72 pounds and already pitugly—charges the officer... and the officer pulls out his service revolver and shoots the dog in the head. The dog lived and the dog's owner wants the city of Lancaster, PA, to pay the vet bills. Nope, says the city, our officers don't have to wait until they're actually being mauled to shoot a threatening dog.
The dog's owner—who let his two pits off leash in front of a high school on a Sunday morning with small children nearby—naturally faults the cop, asking why the cop didn't just get back in his car if he was afraid of the dog.
Discuss.
1
Charges the officer or ran towards the officer excited to see a person, as most puppies are...your bias continues to shock me.
4
Discuss? Don't pay a penny and make sure that a-hole is complying with the letter of the law when it comes to keeping his dogs. If he isn't, take them away and euthanize them.
5
I'm an animal lover, but I would have done the same thing. I would not wait to be MAULED before pulling my weapon either. Unfortunately I would not have a weapon on me. So I am pretty sure that fucker would be paying my hospital bills after his unleashed dog mauled me.
I am just glad it was an armed officer that got there first and not a small child that didn't realize that this doggie was not the same as the friendly golden retriever they have at home.
I am just glad it was an armed officer that got there first and not a small child that didn't realize that this doggie was not the same as the friendly golden retriever they have at home.
6
The owner should pay for the bullit.
And what the hell was the deal with all those pitbulls at Folklife with thousands of toddlers wandering around?
And what the hell was the deal with all those pitbulls at Folklife with thousands of toddlers wandering around?
7
As usual, the dog gets the punishment. Confidential to cops and pit-haters: THE OWNER IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ACTIONS OF THE DOG. If a man shoots someone with his handgun, we punish the man--we don't melt down the handgun and call it a day.
Most puppies will happily run up to anyone, btw, but don't let the facts get in the way of your vendetta.
Most puppies will happily run up to anyone, btw, but don't let the facts get in the way of your vendetta.
8
@1 it was a pit bull. I know that you would like to honestly believe that doesn't matter, however it does, because unfortunately the killer instinct that these dogs were originally bread with is not yet bread out of them.
I am not against people owning pit bills, as long as they know what they have and treat it responsibly.
I am not against people owning pit bills, as long as they know what they have and treat it responsibly.
9
Yeah, the guy was wrong to have his dogs off leash. But without video or another witness, how are we supposed to know what actually happened here? Cop on power trip shoots puppy because owner is being a dick? Dick owner lets dangerous dog run wild, dog runs at cop snarling? Responsible citizen makes innocent mistake, puppy playfully bounds over to cop who shoots him?
Any of these are possibilities with what we actually know about the situation. Which is not very much.
Any of these are possibilities with what we actually know about the situation. Which is not very much.
11
Sounds like a friendly puppy since there was no growling or staring before the "charge." Not everyone likes when a dog licks you, but shooting it in the head is a bit extreme.
12
@7: So you're saying next time the cop should shoot the owner and distract the dog with fresh meat?
13
Dude, in most cities if a person charges towards a cop, the cop shoots them; so I fail to see why anyone is outraged or shocked that a cop shot a pitbull that was charging at him.
14
Seems justice was done. My only regret, the pitbull lived. What's wrong w/ these morons who own pitbulls anyway? Could it be the same penis issues that Hummer owners have?
15
Your just baiting with the whole pit bull thing. But as a cop being approached by a dog without a leash. Yeah, I'm with the cop on this one.
I'd say the same thing if the cop was being approached by a poodle.
I'd say the same thing if the cop was being approached by a poodle.
17
@13 Um, maybe because when a person charges a cop, you can be pretty clear what their intent is, but when a dog runs towards you (especially a 9-month old) they could just see another human to say hello to?
Look, if the dog ran at the cop growling and snarling (or if it was staring fixedly at the cop and charged silently), I'm all for shooting it dead. But, we don't really know whether that happened or not, so I find it hard to take sides here. I can easily visually a situation where it was clearly justified, one where it was clearly not justified, and one where it was gray...
Look, if the dog ran at the cop growling and snarling (or if it was staring fixedly at the cop and charged silently), I'm all for shooting it dead. But, we don't really know whether that happened or not, so I find it hard to take sides here. I can easily visually a situation where it was clearly justified, one where it was clearly not justified, and one where it was gray...
18
Pit bulls can be extremely devoted animals, to their owners, and even that is very iffy. As I said earlier their killer instinct is NOT bread out of them. They are dangerous. They are not recommended for house holds with small children, they are not even recommended for households with other dogs.
Also, being that they are very devoted to their owners, they are very protective of their owners and it is not unreasonable to assume, as a person on the other side of that charging animal, that the animal is acting to protect their owner.
In addition, were his dog not yet well trained enough to heel and/or not charge at someone that it does not know, than no matter what the breed, it should not have been off a leash.
Be a responsible pet owner, or don't own pets.
Also, being that they are very devoted to their owners, they are very protective of their owners and it is not unreasonable to assume, as a person on the other side of that charging animal, that the animal is acting to protect their owner.
In addition, were his dog not yet well trained enough to heel and/or not charge at someone that it does not know, than no matter what the breed, it should not have been off a leash.
Be a responsible pet owner, or don't own pets.
20
I'm a pit bull foster mom and I'm also on the cop's side. The owner was completely negligent and the cop had a right to feel threatened. Just because YOU know that your dog is human-friendly doesn't mean other humans should trust a giant pit bull who's out of his owner's control.
21
I'm on the cop's side too. More, I'm on the dog's side. It's not the dog's fault, no matter its breed, that it was owned by an idiot who didn't think about the welfare of his pet. My dog is 85 pounds and sweet as punkin' pie, but he's still a dog - an animal with instincts that I cannot possibly anticipate all the time, one that is fully capable of attacking either another dog or a person if his doggie brain told him to. Then I'm going to be in front of a judge, trying to explain that he's really a good dog and doesn't need to be put down, or facing criminal charges, or any number of not fun things.
Which is why my dog is only off leash in my yard, the off leash dog park where I always have him in my sight, or inside my home. Anywhere else he's got that leash on, as much for his protection as the public's.
Which is why my dog is only off leash in my yard, the off leash dog park where I always have him in my sight, or inside my home. Anywhere else he's got that leash on, as much for his protection as the public's.
22
Fucking anti-pit morons. Talk to people who actually work with animals, like my veterinarian, who told me she's been bitten and attacked by many dogs, and never once was it a pit bull. It's always those little fuckers (whose owners treat them like they're infants because they don't know a thing about dogs) who are really maladjusted.
That said, this moron also clearly didn't know a thing about dogs or about cops. Both can be incredibly dangerous in the wrong setting. He should be glad no one died and leave it at that.
That said, this moron also clearly didn't know a thing about dogs or about cops. Both can be incredibly dangerous in the wrong setting. He should be glad no one died and leave it at that.
23
I'm usually dubious when it comes to trigger-happy cops, but in this case I'm willing to give the cops the benefit of the doubt. Even if the dog truly was just running up to the cop in innocent puppy excitement, the cop still may have been in the right. For one, pit bulls can look threatening when they're not actually being vicious.
Some anecdotal evidence: I grew up with a dog that was half pit bull. She never attacked anyone (human, cat, or dog), but she did have tons of energy. When she was happy to see you, she'd sprint in a beeline right towards you at full speed.
Most of my friends were terrified of her at first, and I don't blame them. Even though she would only jump up to lick your face in the end, the sight of a 110-lb muscular dog sprinting right at you can be intimidating (and this dog was only half pit). If she ever did this to a cop, how would he be expected to assume that she was only going to lick his face and muddy up his uniform?
Even though the only (half) pit bull that I've known was friendly, I still agree with Dan's thoughts on them. Not all pit bulls are vicious, but they are very well equipped to be destructive when they are vicious. They also are more likely to be vicious if you raise them the same way you'd raise, say, a labrador. You really have to be careful about being nothing but kind with the dog. Maybe raise it with other, friendlier breeds of dog. Most pit bull owners either train them to be vicious, or they don't know how to account for their risky temperment. Especially the type of owner that would walk them in public without a leash.
Some anecdotal evidence: I grew up with a dog that was half pit bull. She never attacked anyone (human, cat, or dog), but she did have tons of energy. When she was happy to see you, she'd sprint in a beeline right towards you at full speed.
Most of my friends were terrified of her at first, and I don't blame them. Even though she would only jump up to lick your face in the end, the sight of a 110-lb muscular dog sprinting right at you can be intimidating (and this dog was only half pit). If she ever did this to a cop, how would he be expected to assume that she was only going to lick his face and muddy up his uniform?
Even though the only (half) pit bull that I've known was friendly, I still agree with Dan's thoughts on them. Not all pit bulls are vicious, but they are very well equipped to be destructive when they are vicious. They also are more likely to be vicious if you raise them the same way you'd raise, say, a labrador. You really have to be careful about being nothing but kind with the dog. Maybe raise it with other, friendlier breeds of dog. Most pit bull owners either train them to be vicious, or they don't know how to account for their risky temperment. Especially the type of owner that would walk them in public without a leash.
24
Could the cop have pepper sprayed the dog instead of pulling out the roscoe? Or are pit bulls just as bad as the proverbial 250 lb weightlifter high on PCP that laughs in the face of mace we're always hearing about?
25
Tough one, but dude didn't have a dog on a leash and that's the law, so it is pretty clear cut. I just question as to whether shooting was necessary...don't you have a baton or nightstick?!
And to SASS who seem to think pitbulls are like hummers, you must have hummer envy or something. Pits tend to be one of the most abondonded dogs because people get them and dont understand the nature of the breed...I'm not saying this guy rescued/adopted his dogs, but I would say most owners of this breed are just kind-hearted animal lovers...not small dicked with the need for gas-guzzling autos...try making better anologies next time, like: your comment is to good, as your mother's vagina is to birthing intelligent humans
And to SASS who seem to think pitbulls are like hummers, you must have hummer envy or something. Pits tend to be one of the most abondonded dogs because people get them and dont understand the nature of the breed...I'm not saying this guy rescued/adopted his dogs, but I would say most owners of this breed are just kind-hearted animal lovers...not small dicked with the need for gas-guzzling autos...try making better anologies next time, like: your comment is to good, as your mother's vagina is to birthing intelligent humans
28
22- nobody's hating on pit bulls. But the reality is that most people who get them do not know how to account for their temperament. It's just a fact that pit bulls are more likely to have a temper if raised the same as the gentler breeds of family dog that most people are used to. What's more, they have strong enough jaws and "go-for-the-neck" instincts to be extra dangerous when they do turn out ferocious. So, until only those who know how to deal with pit bulls are allowed to get them, we're going to see plenty of "vicious pit bull/stupid owner" stories. The stories of kind pit bulls are not evidence that anyone can have one; they're merely evidence that some people, somewhere, actually know how to raise them.
30
Pits aren't scary. Bigots making generalizations and advocating violence are scary. Learn to read dog behavior. Keep your dogs on leashes, and a civil tongue in your head with cops. Duh Duh Duh.
31
So let me get this straight. Man owns controversial dogs that have a rap for biting the fuck out of people. Man takes dog to public place for people under 18 (you can not argue that pitbulls on public school property is the right place) and lets the roam without leash. Cop says put dog on leash. Dog runs to cop, not owner, I repeat no the fucking owner, but the man who is yelling at his owner. Cop has animal running at him. Cop shoots dog. Owner does not call dog to him at any point when the cop shows up to put him on a leash. The type of people who do not respect public space or public safety should not own animals that can kill. If you want to defend the pitbull take it out of the hands of fucking morons. You wouldn't let criminals have firearms why do you argue for them to have killer dogs.
32
There is nothing that sickens me more than these smug entitled white folks riding around on bicycles and blocking traffic for no apparent reason in the hopes of starting a fight with somebody of a less progressive demographic, while wearing butt-pad spandex shorts or skinny manpris...
Oh wait, wrong topic. Is today's agenda pitbulls vs. CM for most commented slog post?
Dicuss.
Oh wait, wrong topic. Is today's agenda pitbulls vs. CM for most commented slog post?
Dicuss.
34
I believe the article on this also stated that the pit bull's ears had been cropped. I've heard of people cutting up dobermans ears, but not pit bulls. What would be the point of that?
35
like most here, i'd be interested in how the dog approached the cop. That is really the determining factor.
I am surprised though how fast a cop can draw a gun, that seems suspect.
I am surprised though how fast a cop can draw a gun, that seems suspect.
36
The level of denial in pit bull fanciers is astonishingly high and approaches that of lonely women who look for romance in the personal ads of Easy Rider.
37
@34, when you fight your dog, you don't want the other dog to get his ears or tail, so you crop both short. that way, when you torture him to death, he'll survive longer and maybe win you some money.
shoot the fucking owner.
shoot the fucking owner.
39
@37 is that for real? WTF?!?! So does that mean that this guy cropped the dogs ears so it could be a fight dog? Or out a tradition that he didn't understand?
40
17. Oh you and your needing facts and information to have an opinion about something.
Try just picking something and believing it. Its how the rest of us work.
Try just picking something and believing it. Its how the rest of us work.
43
to buknoy @25, if you reread, I simply asked the question regarding pit bulls and hummers, no conclusions. I'm guessing you might be a pit bull owner who is protesting too much. BTW the word is analogy. Spellcheck could be good if making comments about a mother's intelligent vagina.
45
Once a violent dog attacks you, it's fair game IMO. Violent breeds of dog, especially pitbulls, don't have any sense of when to say when: They will maul you until you're dead or they're dead, whichever comes first. Kill or be killed.
Whether or not they're housebroken doesn't matter: It's pure instinct that predates civilization.
Whether or not they're housebroken doesn't matter: It's pure instinct that predates civilization.
46
Cropping the ears is usually just an aesthetic thing (i.e., totally pointless). People do it to boxers too. I've heard a justification that for dogs with big ears, it makes them less prone to ear infection, and, anecdotally, my Doberman with uncropped ears is very prone to them... But, you know, seems like just cleaning his ears more often makes more sense than cutting them off.
BTW, I think this guy was a complete idiot for having his dogs off leash (even more so for it being a young dog that might not be well-trained yet). But, I just don't think I'm too keen on cops getting to shoot any dog that may or may not be threatening -- there should be a reasonably clear indication of danger, and we don't know enough about this situation to say whether there was or not.
BTW, I think this guy was a complete idiot for having his dogs off leash (even more so for it being a young dog that might not be well-trained yet). But, I just don't think I'm too keen on cops getting to shoot any dog that may or may not be threatening -- there should be a reasonably clear indication of danger, and we don't know enough about this situation to say whether there was or not.
47
@39 yes it is true. i have no idea what the guys motives are, but it adds to the list of things that were probably feeling really wrong for the cop.
i despise cops, in a stupid, childish, knee jerk, and unrepentant way. but if a cop asked ma to put my dog that was illegally off leash, on a leash, i'd do it, so would most people. if the cop were in the wrong, not true here, we'd find an adult way to resolve the issue, like getting a name, badge number, and acting like a fucking grown up.
but the dick who has two pits, crops them like fight dogs, takes them to a children's play area to run loose, and then has a tantrum about leashing his dog, are all things that would tweak me out. a cop is responsible for walking up to the person who is breaking the law, and asking them to comply.
that is the cop's responsibility whatever the breed, and it was the owner's responsibility to protect his dog and otherwise behave like an adult.
i despise cops, in a stupid, childish, knee jerk, and unrepentant way. but if a cop asked ma to put my dog that was illegally off leash, on a leash, i'd do it, so would most people. if the cop were in the wrong, not true here, we'd find an adult way to resolve the issue, like getting a name, badge number, and acting like a fucking grown up.
but the dick who has two pits, crops them like fight dogs, takes them to a children's play area to run loose, and then has a tantrum about leashing his dog, are all things that would tweak me out. a cop is responsible for walking up to the person who is breaking the law, and asking them to comply.
that is the cop's responsibility whatever the breed, and it was the owner's responsibility to protect his dog and otherwise behave like an adult.
48
24. Could the cop have pepper sprayed the dog instead of pulling out the roscoe? Or are pit bulls just as bad as the proverbial 250 lb weightlifter high on PCP that laughs in the face of mace we're always hearing about?
If you have the timing, accuracy and discipline to pepper spray a charging pitbull in the appropriate place before he/she clamp its jaws into your flesh, you shouldn't be a cop. You should be a professional athlete.
If you're going to offer alternatives to killing a violent animal racing for your neck, try to think of feasible ones.
49
No just about all major dog breeders crop their dogs ears.
ARE PEOPLE IN THIS THREAD THAT FUCKING STUPID!
A dog is a dog is a dog is a dog
A pit bull ... oh wait, is just a fucking dog.
A big dog, but a dog and not the @24 240 pound weightlifter on OCO
They aren't X-dogs with super dog powers anymore than NFL players are super humans.
I don't really LIKE dogs that much , I don't want to own a dog. They are too much RESPONCIBLITY. Especially in a big city where dumb ass owners are keeping their dogs trapped in closet apartments for 50 hours a week.
I get hella pissed off when I'm trapped inside a confined space for a very long time.
You can call it a eukalyptus tree if it makes you people feel better, it's still a dog.
At the end of the day, it's really an obey the god damn leash law for the safety of you, the dog, and everyone around you. Yet we have to inflame it with the hatred of pitbulls by the Dan Savage and his limp wristed anti-pit bull brute squad.
ARE PEOPLE IN THIS THREAD THAT FUCKING STUPID!
A dog is a dog is a dog is a dog
A pit bull ... oh wait, is just a fucking dog.
A big dog, but a dog and not the @24 240 pound weightlifter on OCO
They aren't X-dogs with super dog powers anymore than NFL players are super humans.
I don't really LIKE dogs that much , I don't want to own a dog. They are too much RESPONCIBLITY. Especially in a big city where dumb ass owners are keeping their dogs trapped in closet apartments for 50 hours a week.
I get hella pissed off when I'm trapped inside a confined space for a very long time.
You can call it a eukalyptus tree if it makes you people feel better, it's still a dog.
At the end of the day, it's really an obey the god damn leash law for the safety of you, the dog, and everyone around you. Yet we have to inflame it with the hatred of pitbulls by the Dan Savage and his limp wristed anti-pit bull brute squad.
50
I was taking a walk with my daughter in Carkeek Park on Monday morning. She was running ahead of me when I heard a jangling of a dog chain coming from around a bend in the trail. I asked my daughter to stop running. She asked why. I said, "Honey, because there is a dog coming up ahead and I don't want you to startle it."
Before we got to the turn an unleashed pit pull came chugging ahead. Its owner followed shortly behind calling to her dog. She assured me that the dog was very friendly and wouldn't hurt anyone. She also said that she called to her dog because she had heard my daughter from a distance.
I'm wondering why she didn't call her dog before it rounded the bend. I was responsible enough to get my girl to stop running and close to me before the encounter. The dog owner should have done the same.
I'm still on the fence in regards to off-leash laws. I did wonder how many of the many people out with their off-leash dogs would be able to restrain them had their dogs and my daughter startled each other rounding a bend. And I do think that the owner of the pit bull should have reined in her dog before she did.
In my opinion, the cop was in the right. The pit bulls should have been restrained.
Before we got to the turn an unleashed pit pull came chugging ahead. Its owner followed shortly behind calling to her dog. She assured me that the dog was very friendly and wouldn't hurt anyone. She also said that she called to her dog because she had heard my daughter from a distance.
I'm wondering why she didn't call her dog before it rounded the bend. I was responsible enough to get my girl to stop running and close to me before the encounter. The dog owner should have done the same.
I'm still on the fence in regards to off-leash laws. I did wonder how many of the many people out with their off-leash dogs would be able to restrain them had their dogs and my daughter startled each other rounding a bend. And I do think that the owner of the pit bull should have reined in her dog before she did.
In my opinion, the cop was in the right. The pit bulls should have been restrained.
51
@49 You're right that it is an "obey the leash law" post, as well as, well any large dog charging can be dangerous, whatevs.
Where you are wrong is in the a dog is a dog is a dog.
Pit bulls were bread to be fight dogs. Breeding does change the temperament of a dog and Pit bulls have not had that fight when dominated instinct bread out of them. They are less likely to view their owners as the 'top dog' as most domesticated dogs do. A pit bull is more often allowing a human being to share their space, but are more likely than most dogs to attack when dominated by anyone.
Bull dogs used to be bread as fight dogs as well. That is why they are so short and muscular and also why their skin is so loose. The breed was almost extinct, but was revived by some hard core bull dog lovers who bread them DIFFERENTLY so that now they are actually very loving animals and are perfect family pets.
Pit Bull as attack/fight dog is not an old concept, in fact they are still being bread that way in many circles, so they are still inherently fight dogs.
You yourself admit that you are not a dog person, so don't presume so much.
Pit bulls are not singled out for no reason.
Again, it is not that I don't think that people should own them, care for them, love them, I just think that they need to know what they have and take care of it responsibly.
Where you are wrong is in the a dog is a dog is a dog.
Pit bulls were bread to be fight dogs. Breeding does change the temperament of a dog and Pit bulls have not had that fight when dominated instinct bread out of them. They are less likely to view their owners as the 'top dog' as most domesticated dogs do. A pit bull is more often allowing a human being to share their space, but are more likely than most dogs to attack when dominated by anyone.
Bull dogs used to be bread as fight dogs as well. That is why they are so short and muscular and also why their skin is so loose. The breed was almost extinct, but was revived by some hard core bull dog lovers who bread them DIFFERENTLY so that now they are actually very loving animals and are perfect family pets.
Pit Bull as attack/fight dog is not an old concept, in fact they are still being bread that way in many circles, so they are still inherently fight dogs.
You yourself admit that you are not a dog person, so don't presume so much.
Pit bulls are not singled out for no reason.
Again, it is not that I don't think that people should own them, care for them, love them, I just think that they need to know what they have and take care of it responsibly.
52
hey man, nice shot.
and @49. You're telling me a 350 pound man who runs faster than the average person--even the average "fit" person is a normal guy? Kinda defeats your argument a little bit there.
and @49. You're telling me a 350 pound man who runs faster than the average person--even the average "fit" person is a normal guy? Kinda defeats your argument a little bit there.
54
Don't they have tazers to non-lethally subdue a threat? Aren't they trained to do just that?
Dog-race-baiting. This is stupid.
Dog-race-baiting. This is stupid.
55
@52
Coming from the very cranky 240 lb athletic person stuck in a lab with volitile solvents, on a slow day, and NO AC!
I can relate to those dogs. And no, I'm not a super human ... I'm just a big athletic guy.
@51
I just don't buy the temperment argument. It's just so subjective, too many variables. Too difficult to test. And well, breeding itself is too difficult to test or control. Which is why the American Cainine Association and such are a bunch of Nazi's when it comes to identifying and maintaining the inegrity of breeds.
As a result, there are no controls as to what IS and ISn't a pit bull. I'm sorry to say, it's scientifically unsound and difficult to test ... and well nobody really wants to test it.
I also wonder if people are more likely to report their pit bull attacks because they hold prejiduces against the owners vs. the nice clean neighbers and their startled collie and poodle.
There is just a human element, that I have a hard time really desiphering or resolving ...
sorry.
Coming from the very cranky 240 lb athletic person stuck in a lab with volitile solvents, on a slow day, and NO AC!
I can relate to those dogs. And no, I'm not a super human ... I'm just a big athletic guy.
@51
I just don't buy the temperment argument. It's just so subjective, too many variables. Too difficult to test. And well, breeding itself is too difficult to test or control. Which is why the American Cainine Association and such are a bunch of Nazi's when it comes to identifying and maintaining the inegrity of breeds.
As a result, there are no controls as to what IS and ISn't a pit bull. I'm sorry to say, it's scientifically unsound and difficult to test ... and well nobody really wants to test it.
I also wonder if people are more likely to report their pit bull attacks because they hold prejiduces against the owners vs. the nice clean neighbers and their startled collie and poodle.
There is just a human element, that I have a hard time really desiphering or resolving ...
sorry.
56
I mean some of these ani- pit bull posts make no sense? How can I take any of this seriously? Just about every hard core breeder crops their dogs ears? It has nothing to do with "fighting"
57
@55 I can understand you questioning the human element.
But, owners should, in a perfect scenario I guess, know what they have and how to take care of it. Unfortunately that rarely happens with any breed (especially the knowing how to take care of it! Christ people, stop getting pets as accessories).
I am not anti-pit bull, I can definitely see the draw, as I have said before they are extremely devoted and protective. It is actually the "human element" that I am annoyed with most I guess. People just don't take care of their pets in general. They don't learn about their breeds, they barely train their pets, if your dog jumps up on me, a perfect stranger, while walking down the street, excited/friendly/whatever, it is NOT WELL TRAINED and you have FAILED THEM as an owner.
But, owners should, in a perfect scenario I guess, know what they have and how to take care of it. Unfortunately that rarely happens with any breed (especially the knowing how to take care of it! Christ people, stop getting pets as accessories).
I am not anti-pit bull, I can definitely see the draw, as I have said before they are extremely devoted and protective. It is actually the "human element" that I am annoyed with most I guess. People just don't take care of their pets in general. They don't learn about their breeds, they barely train their pets, if your dog jumps up on me, a perfect stranger, while walking down the street, excited/friendly/whatever, it is NOT WELL TRAINED and you have FAILED THEM as an owner.
58
not guilty.
Dog owners are just not rational about "their children". I had dog owner scream at me because I shouted at her dog when it charged at me. Geez... I sure hope my tender flesh doesn't damage your dog's teeth!
Dog owners are just not rational about "their children". I had dog owner scream at me because I shouted at her dog when it charged at me. Geez... I sure hope my tender flesh doesn't damage your dog's teeth!
59
Agreed Take it all in, people don't train their pets well at all.
I was walking down 15th one afternoon and some dreaded out weirdo had his dog unleashed roaming beside him. Labrador, and I'm thinking ... are you out of your mind? Sure, you might trust your dog, but do you trust anyone else? Or their dogs?
Funny, I seem to see more conflicts dogs have with other dogs than with other people. Then you find yourself breaking up a dog fight (not fun!).
Yes I did have dogs growing up, they are cool enough ... but not cool enough to take on that responciblility.
Breaking up dog fights suck.
I was walking down 15th one afternoon and some dreaded out weirdo had his dog unleashed roaming beside him. Labrador, and I'm thinking ... are you out of your mind? Sure, you might trust your dog, but do you trust anyone else? Or their dogs?
Funny, I seem to see more conflicts dogs have with other dogs than with other people. Then you find yourself breaking up a dog fight (not fun!).
Yes I did have dogs growing up, they are cool enough ... but not cool enough to take on that responciblility.
Breaking up dog fights suck.
60
Whether the dog was charging or not the owner is still responsible for not leashing the dog in the first place. If the dog was just an innocent puppy, I feel sorry for it. It's too bad the city is apparently not going to take the animal away from that shithead owner.
61
It's "bred," as in birthed, not "bread," as in sandwich.
And "responsibility," not "responcibility." And "eucalyptus," not "eukalyptus."
Thanks.
And "responsibility," not "responcibility." And "eucalyptus," not "eukalyptus."
Thanks.
62
@61 as annoying as your post is, thanks for the correction ... I knew there was something not quite right about how I was spelling it (hello? Dictionary.com much...) :(
63
@49 said: No just about all major dog breeders crop their dogs ears
Um, no they don't because "altering" a dog keeps it from being shown, and otherwise decreases its value. "major breeders" take that shit seriously, i rarely see pits who are altered "just because", most people who don't care, literally don't care and they leave their dogs intact.
some people do it for the "look" but that's less common that the either leaving it the hell alone or doing for another reason. and of the 11 pits i "know", none are cropped EXCEPT those that were rescued.
Um, no they don't because "altering" a dog keeps it from being shown, and otherwise decreases its value. "major breeders" take that shit seriously, i rarely see pits who are altered "just because", most people who don't care, literally don't care and they leave their dogs intact.
some people do it for the "look" but that's less common that the either leaving it the hell alone or doing for another reason. and of the 11 pits i "know", none are cropped EXCEPT those that were rescued.
64
The cop should have finished off the dog. And shot the other one. And then pistol whipped the owner who was doubtless "resisting".
A pit bull isn't like a golden retriever -- it might not be any more likely to attack, but if it attacks, it does a lot more damage. Don't give it the chance.
A pit bull isn't like a golden retriever -- it might not be any more likely to attack, but if it attacks, it does a lot more damage. Don't give it the chance.
65
Reading all the above posts drives the point home that leash laws need to be enforced and training is key in being a responsible dog owner.
I am just wondering how Dan missed the story about the Showdog that killed it's owner/handler about 2 weeks back.....It was a Great Dane, so it was only covered by 1 or 2 news stations. In the same week a pit bull attacked, but did not kill another person and 380 networks picked up that story...Interesting.
On the VERY Positive side, one of the rehabbed Vick dog's was on Anderson Cooper last week! And King County has proposed a new dog law that is Non-breed specific!!!! Yay!
I am just wondering how Dan missed the story about the Showdog that killed it's owner/handler about 2 weeks back.....It was a Great Dane, so it was only covered by 1 or 2 news stations. In the same week a pit bull attacked, but did not kill another person and 380 networks picked up that story...Interesting.
On the VERY Positive side, one of the rehabbed Vick dog's was on Anderson Cooper last week! And King County has proposed a new dog law that is Non-breed specific!!!! Yay!
66
@65: Good news on the non-breed specific law being proposed - could you direct me to where to find the text of it?
67
Wow guys, so much misinformation to refute and so little time...
There are a number of things about this story that shows that there is plenty of blame to go around for everyone - but mostly the owner was at fault.
However, the cop should be under review for discharging his weapon. Not just because he 'shot the dog' but because he discharged it in a public place - also from the accounts given in the article it would seem that some investigation should be undertaken to determine if the officer was in any danger.
The dogs should have been on a leash - no doubt about that.
The cop was driving along, sees this guy and his dogs and claims that he saw one of the dogs poop and the owner not pick it up, then he is approached by one of the dogs as the guy is trying to leash the other. There's something strange in how this all went down that makes me think that we're not getting the full story.
The one dog, that we know of, had cropped ears - which is a standard thing for folks who fight dogs to do - it is not uncommon for them to do it themselves with a box cutter. Yeah, real nice.
The cop, while driving by, may have seen a guy who (to him) looked suspicious and was in the company of two pit bulls - one of which had ears cropped (i.e. looked like a fighting dog). In areas where dog fighting is a problem (and is known to be linked to gang activity) such a stop wouldn't be too unusual. The cop did seem a bit 'too quick, and at the ready' to deploy deadly force - had more bystanders been present he could have injured or killed them - thus the need to review that use of a firearm was necessitated.
The guy had no control over his dogs, before being off leash in public they should be totally under 'voice control'. Personally I feel that dogs should only be off-leash in areas and venues in which it is appropriate to do so, but that's another subject for another time.
More...
There are a number of things about this story that shows that there is plenty of blame to go around for everyone - but mostly the owner was at fault.
However, the cop should be under review for discharging his weapon. Not just because he 'shot the dog' but because he discharged it in a public place - also from the accounts given in the article it would seem that some investigation should be undertaken to determine if the officer was in any danger.
The dogs should have been on a leash - no doubt about that.
The cop was driving along, sees this guy and his dogs and claims that he saw one of the dogs poop and the owner not pick it up, then he is approached by one of the dogs as the guy is trying to leash the other. There's something strange in how this all went down that makes me think that we're not getting the full story.
The one dog, that we know of, had cropped ears - which is a standard thing for folks who fight dogs to do - it is not uncommon for them to do it themselves with a box cutter. Yeah, real nice.
The cop, while driving by, may have seen a guy who (to him) looked suspicious and was in the company of two pit bulls - one of which had ears cropped (i.e. looked like a fighting dog). In areas where dog fighting is a problem (and is known to be linked to gang activity) such a stop wouldn't be too unusual. The cop did seem a bit 'too quick, and at the ready' to deploy deadly force - had more bystanders been present he could have injured or killed them - thus the need to review that use of a firearm was necessitated.
The guy had no control over his dogs, before being off leash in public they should be totally under 'voice control'. Personally I feel that dogs should only be off-leash in areas and venues in which it is appropriate to do so, but that's another subject for another time.
68
Way to discriminate against the breed Dan (again) and others, and not against the stupid owner that lets his untrained dog off leash in a non-off leash area. I've known tons of amazing pits raised by knowledgeable and responsible owners that are great dogs. I've also known labs and other "calmer" breeds that were pure shit because their owners were the same. Let's have a ban on people who mistreat and mis-train their dogs into threats.
Dogs are animals, not weapons and people need to be held accountable for treating them as such.
Dogs are animals, not weapons and people need to be held accountable for treating them as such.
69
Funny how Dan only targets pits and not the dozen of other dogs that attack. Maybe he has, a, hmmm- prejudice? Hope to see ya on the hill Dan, with my goofy red noses in tow! You will shit your pants when they "charge you" and deliver wet kisses and wagging tail thumps to your legs!
70
Even Pit Bull puppies from litters where both parents were 'fighters' can have good temperaments, and go on to be excellent family dogs.
Unfortunately, these good natured dogs will often be used as bait dogs to train other dogs kill.
Of all the breeds that I've worked with, and I've worked with many, Pit Bulls don't even make my list for breeds I'm cautious about working with (Bouviers are at the top and Old English Sheepdogs are not far behind, and lets not forget Springer Spaniels with their tendency for 'Springer Rage') - though I would have concerns about working with any dog that had cropped ears and/or a docked tail - since dogs communicate a lot of information by ear and tail set.
There are many ways to 'read' dogs. The problem comes when people think that they are just "pieces of property" and as such they should always 'work' or 'be' a certain way; rather than giving them credit for being the sentient creatures that they are.
Unfortunately, these good natured dogs will often be used as bait dogs to train other dogs kill.
Of all the breeds that I've worked with, and I've worked with many, Pit Bulls don't even make my list for breeds I'm cautious about working with (Bouviers are at the top and Old English Sheepdogs are not far behind, and lets not forget Springer Spaniels with their tendency for 'Springer Rage') - though I would have concerns about working with any dog that had cropped ears and/or a docked tail - since dogs communicate a lot of information by ear and tail set.
There are many ways to 'read' dogs. The problem comes when people think that they are just "pieces of property" and as such they should always 'work' or 'be' a certain way; rather than giving them credit for being the sentient creatures that they are.
71
I feel like I should know this by now, but why does Dan care so much about pit bulls? Link or explanation please.
72
67. Too quick and at the ready? What should the officer have done once the dog charged him, stood there and let the pit tear his neck up before taking action? Seriously, defender, what should he have done once the dog charged him?
Give a feasible, concrete answer.
Give a feasible, concrete answer.
74
Bravo to the cop.
Any dog that charges a person can rightly be killed BEFORE the dog's teeth actually pierce flesh.
Period.
Dogs are animals, not people. Therefore, different standards for when killing is justified apply.
Any dog that charges a person can rightly be killed BEFORE the dog's teeth actually pierce flesh.
Period.
Dogs are animals, not people. Therefore, different standards for when killing is justified apply.
75
I am sick of pit bull owners. Yesterday a bunch of wounded pit bulls were dumped at the local pound. A number of unadopted dogs had to be put to sleep to make room for them so the owner not only sentenced his own dogs to death but a number of other adoptable animals. I hope the creep gets a life sentence.
76
Lest They Be Accused of Biased Reporting On Divisive Social Issues...
Posted by Dan Savage on Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 1:05 PM
Posted by Dan Savage on Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 1:05 PM
77
Pit bulls are not your average dog. Sure, they're not killing machines from the second they arrive from the womb. Sure, everyone (myself included) has known at least one good-tempered pit bull. There's variance in that breed just like there's variance in anything.
But the fact that these are pit bulls is significant for several reasons. For one thing, you really do need to be more careful when raising a pit bull if you don't want unforeseen temper problems. It's also significant that, whether or not it's the dogs' fault, pit bulls are very widely bred and trained as fighting dogs. So you get more abusive breeders, you get more machismo-obsessed pricks that think it'd be cool to get a pit bull that they know jack shit about raising, and you get more adopted pit bulls that have been abused and abandoned as puppies. In other words, you get more dangerous pit bulls all around thanks to dogfighting.
It's also thanks to fight-breeding that pit bulls are better equipped than many (I know, not ALL) dogs to do serious damage to whoever they attack. Especially their jaws. Our family's half-pit used to crush the golf balls that we'd give her as chew toys. Pomeranians and schnauzers, I would argue, are way more intrinsically ferocious than pit bulls, but when they attack it's just annoying.
I agree that it's possible to raise a gentle pit bull, but it doesn't mean that the breed should be insignificant from the perspective of the cop in that story. Sure, all dogs can be vicious and all dogs can be friendly, we get it. But pit bulls, for whatever reasons, have a particularly high vicious/friendly ratio.
So given all this, if I were that cop, I'd be less inclined to think that the pit bull running towards me was just being a happy puppy. It might have been, but if the cop did make an error, it was a reasonable one.
Now, I don't share Dan's perspective that the pit-bull issue is worth crusading, but I don't think it's arbitrary that he's chosen pit bulls instead of bloodhounds or even dobermans.
More...
But the fact that these are pit bulls is significant for several reasons. For one thing, you really do need to be more careful when raising a pit bull if you don't want unforeseen temper problems. It's also significant that, whether or not it's the dogs' fault, pit bulls are very widely bred and trained as fighting dogs. So you get more abusive breeders, you get more machismo-obsessed pricks that think it'd be cool to get a pit bull that they know jack shit about raising, and you get more adopted pit bulls that have been abused and abandoned as puppies. In other words, you get more dangerous pit bulls all around thanks to dogfighting.
It's also thanks to fight-breeding that pit bulls are better equipped than many (I know, not ALL) dogs to do serious damage to whoever they attack. Especially their jaws. Our family's half-pit used to crush the golf balls that we'd give her as chew toys. Pomeranians and schnauzers, I would argue, are way more intrinsically ferocious than pit bulls, but when they attack it's just annoying.
I agree that it's possible to raise a gentle pit bull, but it doesn't mean that the breed should be insignificant from the perspective of the cop in that story. Sure, all dogs can be vicious and all dogs can be friendly, we get it. But pit bulls, for whatever reasons, have a particularly high vicious/friendly ratio.
So given all this, if I were that cop, I'd be less inclined to think that the pit bull running towards me was just being a happy puppy. It might have been, but if the cop did make an error, it was a reasonable one.
Now, I don't share Dan's perspective that the pit-bull issue is worth crusading, but I don't think it's arbitrary that he's chosen pit bulls instead of bloodhounds or even dobermans.
78
@12, I'm saying that regardless of how the cop reacted--and if he perceived a true threat, I understand why he'd use his firearm--there should have been serious repercussions for the owner beyond the vet bill. A major fine, a brief mandatory jail or community service term, probation, something. I love dogs, I work for Best Friends, and I think all dogs should be on leashes and under control at all times, period.
ANY dog can harm you if it is off-lead and out of control. There ought to be strict and harsh penalties for idiots who don't control (and clean up after) their dogs.
"Take It All In" seems like a decent person, but posts awfully authoritatively for someone who is at best undereducated about pit bulls.
ANY dog can harm you if it is off-lead and out of control. There ought to be strict and harsh penalties for idiots who don't control (and clean up after) their dogs.
"Take It All In" seems like a decent person, but posts awfully authoritatively for someone who is at best undereducated about pit bulls.
79
@12, I'm saying that regardless of how the cop reacted--and if he perceived a true threat, I understand why he'd use his firearm--there should have been serious repercussions for the owner beyond the vet bill. A major fine, a brief mandatory jail or community service term, probation, something. I love dogs, I work for Best Friends, and I think all dogs should be on leashes and under control at all times, period.
ANY dog can harm you if it is off-lead and out of control. There ought to be strict and harsh penalties for idiots who don't control (and clean up after) their dogs.
"Take It All In" seems like a decent person, but posts awfully authoritatively for someone who is at best undereducated about pit bulls.
ANY dog can harm you if it is off-lead and out of control. There ought to be strict and harsh penalties for idiots who don't control (and clean up after) their dogs.
"Take It All In" seems like a decent person, but posts awfully authoritatively for someone who is at best undereducated about pit bulls.
80
whether a pit bull or a yorkie, if the officer felt threatened he had every right to shoot it. I heard a story from an officer who had to shoot a pit bull 3 times in the head, chest and side before it finally stopped coming at him. No way should he have waited one second before shooting.
81
@55. 240 and very athletic is quite different than 350 and very athletic. Still impressive, but my point is that achieving the speed, strength, size, and power NFL lineman achieve is not possible for almost the entire population. A man should not be able to simultaneously run a sub-4.90 40 and weigh 350. Not without being remarkable, that is, and that's what they are.
83
@78 (and 79)
I have said in several of my posts that the owners are at fault, and I do have experience with pit bulls. I am also an animal lover. I have had dogs in my family my whole life. Don't presume that because my experience is different than yours it is less valued. You work with dogs in a controlled environment where I am sure that you know how to handle them and the different breeds. Your run of the mill dog owner does not. The majority of dog owners do not train their pets well and do not know how to handle the temperament of different breeds. There is no argument against that. There are certain breeds that are known for being better with children, certain breeds that are known for being better with other animals and there are certain breeds that are known for being better at fighting. As I have also said many times, I am not against pit bulls, I am against people taking on animals that they don't understand and not caring for them properly.
I have said in several of my posts that the owners are at fault, and I do have experience with pit bulls. I am also an animal lover. I have had dogs in my family my whole life. Don't presume that because my experience is different than yours it is less valued. You work with dogs in a controlled environment where I am sure that you know how to handle them and the different breeds. Your run of the mill dog owner does not. The majority of dog owners do not train their pets well and do not know how to handle the temperament of different breeds. There is no argument against that. There are certain breeds that are known for being better with children, certain breeds that are known for being better with other animals and there are certain breeds that are known for being better at fighting. As I have also said many times, I am not against pit bulls, I am against people taking on animals that they don't understand and not caring for them properly.
84
I don't know ...
Mr. Language person, and mind you I'm not that much of a dog person. I like other peoples dogs and not my own.
(I'm fascinated with NFL training regimes. It's SO HARD to maintain muscle mass on such a large frame, simple weight body building regimes just doen't really cut it. It's also why UFC has a hard time getting contending quality heavy weights.)
Do we disciminate on an NFL players temperment? Well perhaps we do ... I personally don't think it's right. Kind of bugs me out really.
Now do we disciminate on a dog's temperment based on breeding? To be blunt it just sounds like phrenology. It really really bugs me. The use of language and irrational hate toward a breed ... the feeling behind it is what really bugs me.
I'll agree that a pit bull is stronger than an average dog, but I think it's horrible to judge a dog's temperment until you get to know the owner and the dog. Because there is no basis for judging a dogs temperment than some misleading statistics that dont' entirely tell the whole story.
And based on the article, the dog may look adorable, but the owner was a shithead for not leashing his dog.
Mr. Language person, and mind you I'm not that much of a dog person. I like other peoples dogs and not my own.
(I'm fascinated with NFL training regimes. It's SO HARD to maintain muscle mass on such a large frame, simple weight body building regimes just doen't really cut it. It's also why UFC has a hard time getting contending quality heavy weights.)
Do we disciminate on an NFL players temperment? Well perhaps we do ... I personally don't think it's right. Kind of bugs me out really.
Now do we disciminate on a dog's temperment based on breeding? To be blunt it just sounds like phrenology. It really really bugs me. The use of language and irrational hate toward a breed ... the feeling behind it is what really bugs me.
I'll agree that a pit bull is stronger than an average dog, but I think it's horrible to judge a dog's temperment until you get to know the owner and the dog. Because there is no basis for judging a dogs temperment than some misleading statistics that dont' entirely tell the whole story.
And based on the article, the dog may look adorable, but the owner was a shithead for not leashing his dog.
85
@ 6
And what the hell was the deal with all those toddlers at Folklife with thousands of pitbulls wandering around?
Mmmkay?
And what the hell was the deal with all those toddlers at Folklife with thousands of pitbulls wandering around?
Mmmkay?
86
@66
Have not seen the law in it's completion, but here's the gist:
http://www.KingCounty.gov/council/news/2…
Hope the link works..My links never seem too bc I am an idiot.
Have not seen the law in it's completion, but here's the gist:
http://www.KingCounty.gov/council/news/2…
Hope the link works..My links never seem too bc I am an idiot.
87
Okay...doesn't work...(BIG surprise)but just type dangerous dog in the search field and Julia Patterson's most recent changes (May 21st 2009) will appear.
The new proposal looks quite promising in terms of providing safety for both humans and dogs.
The new proposal looks quite promising in terms of providing safety for both humans and dogs.
89
Not too long ago I was running in a city park, I came upon a loose dog running in front of the owner. Just as the dog passed me it jumped on me, opened it's mouth and grabbed my leg, not really biting me but breaking skin. The dog kept on running and the owner glared at me shouting, "You should've stopped". I pushed her into a thorny bush and kept on running.
I would've shot the dog, wishing I could have shot the owner.
I would've shot the dog, wishing I could have shot the owner.
90
It's true that pit bulls account for a disproportionately high percentage of canine related deaths. It's also true that the dog should have been on a leash. But I've known more fucked up cops than I have fucked up pit bulls.
Just sayin'.
Just sayin'.
91
@ 31 & 36
you both nailed it.
@67
i'm glad you made the point about voice control, because surprisingly, no one else did. the dog was out of control. how do we know? because it wasn't on leash; the officer yelled a warning, but the owner couldn't get control of the dog by voice OR the dog wasn't responding to commands. that is a dog that is either planning an aggressive attack or one whose behavior isn't predictable. such a dog should NEVER BE OFF-LEASH in a public area. a school is even worse, because of the presumed presence of children - who famously make unintentionally threatening moves that are misinterpreted by dogs and end in attacks on the children.
i'm not buying the tangent that 'the dog was just being friendly! he didn't have to shoot!' it doesn't matter *what* the dog's intentions were, because it wasn't under it's owner's control, either by leash or by voice. the officer does not have to guess whether the dog's intentions are good or bad to justify shooting. he just has to know that the dog wasn't under its owner's control, which it wasn't; it wasn't on leash, and it either didn't respond to commands its owner gave *or* none were given. in either case, the dog and owner were wrong and the officer was right to shoot. considering a shot to the head didn't kill it, i think 10 feet was too close to allow the dog to get. what if you had to shoot again, or missed? 10 feet isn't much for a powerfully muscled dog to cover.
so, @46, yes we *do* know enough to say the officer had reason to shoot. had the dog been under control, it wouldn't have approached the officer *at all* - it would have gone to the owner.
cropped ears make it very difficult to read the intent of the dog. that is relevant, and something that the pit-defenders here should know. the dog's actual intent isn't relevant, as it was clearly outside the owner's control and any owner of an out-of-control animal should expect it to be shot. but being able to read the dog may have made it possible for the officer to give it more time, even though he'd be justified in shooting anyway.
BTW, it is certainly handy to know something about dogs before you interact with them, but it is not on the general public to understand dog-language and behave in a non-threatening manner. it is the responsibility of dog-owners to control their dogs when miscommunication inevitably occurs between their dogs and the human population. dogs often 'snap' because *we humans* do not understand what messages we're sending that appear threatening to the dog. it is the owner's job to translate between Dog and Human languages. a dog owner who cannot do that can't trust their dogs to be off-leash, and *might* not be able to trust them ON leash.
More...
you both nailed it.
@67
i'm glad you made the point about voice control, because surprisingly, no one else did. the dog was out of control. how do we know? because it wasn't on leash; the officer yelled a warning, but the owner couldn't get control of the dog by voice OR the dog wasn't responding to commands. that is a dog that is either planning an aggressive attack or one whose behavior isn't predictable. such a dog should NEVER BE OFF-LEASH in a public area. a school is even worse, because of the presumed presence of children - who famously make unintentionally threatening moves that are misinterpreted by dogs and end in attacks on the children.
i'm not buying the tangent that 'the dog was just being friendly! he didn't have to shoot!' it doesn't matter *what* the dog's intentions were, because it wasn't under it's owner's control, either by leash or by voice. the officer does not have to guess whether the dog's intentions are good or bad to justify shooting. he just has to know that the dog wasn't under its owner's control, which it wasn't; it wasn't on leash, and it either didn't respond to commands its owner gave *or* none were given. in either case, the dog and owner were wrong and the officer was right to shoot. considering a shot to the head didn't kill it, i think 10 feet was too close to allow the dog to get. what if you had to shoot again, or missed? 10 feet isn't much for a powerfully muscled dog to cover.
so, @46, yes we *do* know enough to say the officer had reason to shoot. had the dog been under control, it wouldn't have approached the officer *at all* - it would have gone to the owner.
cropped ears make it very difficult to read the intent of the dog. that is relevant, and something that the pit-defenders here should know. the dog's actual intent isn't relevant, as it was clearly outside the owner's control and any owner of an out-of-control animal should expect it to be shot. but being able to read the dog may have made it possible for the officer to give it more time, even though he'd be justified in shooting anyway.
BTW, it is certainly handy to know something about dogs before you interact with them, but it is not on the general public to understand dog-language and behave in a non-threatening manner. it is the responsibility of dog-owners to control their dogs when miscommunication inevitably occurs between their dogs and the human population. dogs often 'snap' because *we humans* do not understand what messages we're sending that appear threatening to the dog. it is the owner's job to translate between Dog and Human languages. a dog owner who cannot do that can't trust their dogs to be off-leash, and *might* not be able to trust them ON leash.
92
I have a 120 lb German Shepherd who is very well trained, socialized and has a wonderful, sweet temperment. My 4 year old niece can walk him without difficulty. (Inside our fenced yard...Because no matter how much I trust my dog, there is no need to take stupid chances.) I would never, NEVER take him off leash in a public place. Because, while I may know that he has the temperment of the Dahli Lama, to a stranger, he's just a freaking huge, scary dog. If he ran toward someone who didn't know him, I would EXPECT them to panic. It's a rational reaction!!
While some pits are genetically animal agressive, most are very friendly toward humans. However, there is no denying the fact that such a large powerful dog can do much more damage than that of most other breeds if they do attack. Training, socialization and responsible ownership are important for all dogs, but crucial for breeds like pits. Responsible ownership includes obeying leash laws and respecting other people's understandable fear when faced with a large, indimidating, strange dog.<
I feel sorry for the dog in this case. But the simple truth is that neither the dog or the cop should have ever been put in that situation. The dogs should be taken from the owner and given to someone responsible, willing to exercise some common sense.
While some pits are genetically animal agressive, most are very friendly toward humans. However, there is no denying the fact that such a large powerful dog can do much more damage than that of most other breeds if they do attack. Training, socialization and responsible ownership are important for all dogs, but crucial for breeds like pits. Responsible ownership includes obeying leash laws and respecting other people's understandable fear when faced with a large, indimidating, strange dog.<
I feel sorry for the dog in this case. But the simple truth is that neither the dog or the cop should have ever been put in that situation. The dogs should be taken from the owner and given to someone responsible, willing to exercise some common sense.
94
@91. No, we don't have enough information. We don't know whether the cop was telling the truth, the owner was telling the truth, or some middle ground in between. I'm no pit bull apologist (we're in the process of adopting a second dog right now and I've said I don't want a pit or a pit mix), but without another witness or video, we don't know how the situation really played out. I'm also not some "never trust a pig" anti-cop nut, but, we know that cops can make mistakes and occasionally abuse their power. I mean, the cop in the BART case shot a person dead for no reason, so, I think it's not outside the realm of possibility to think that an officer could potentially do the same to a dog.
As I said, if the dog charged the officer aggressively, then, he's justified in shooting him. But, we don't really have any proof of what really happened, except the officer's statement.
As I said, if the dog charged the officer aggressively, then, he's justified in shooting him. But, we don't really have any proof of what really happened, except the officer's statement.
96
Oh yeah, and Dan, you have made it clear how much you hate dogs. So why bothering posting this. One might assume any shooting, kicking, slaughtering of a dog is ok with you; regardless of the circumstances.
Advertisement
Most Commented on Slog
-
SL Letter of the Day: Pill The Homos! by Dan Savage
-
Dear Huffington Post... by Dan Savage
-
Slog Bible Study: Deuteronomy 21:10-14 by Goldy
-
The AP Is Reporting That Whitney Houston Is Dead by Paul Constant
-
Because Guns Make Us Safer by Goldy
-
The Rick Santorum Rally in Tacoma Probably Could Have Gone Better by Paul Constant
-
SL Letter of the Day: Daddy Loves Who? by Dan Savage
-
Because Guns Make Us More Safer by Goldy
-
Gay Kids Are Still Killing Themselves by Dan Savage
-
Gregoire: "This is signed!" by Eli Sanders
RSS
Facebook
Twitter
Comments (96) RSS