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News & ArtsTuesday, June 2, 2009
Homo / Religion "Oh, you're a Mormon."
Posted by Dan Savage on Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 12:01 PM
Uh...
No question for Marie "I'm a Christian" Osmond—the proud Mormon mother of a dyke daughter—about the Mormon church's rabid opposition to her own daughter's rights?
I realize that this is just Entertainment Tonight, and that the actual Mary Hart was replaced years ago with a digitally animated Mary Hart, and that they're rushing to get to the real reason for this interview—the Nutra Systems plug—but when Marie Osmond says she "thinks it's sad that we have to separate something from society," referring to her daughter, and then goes on to compare the hatred of gays and lesbians to anti-Mormon sentiment back in the bad ol' days, even the animated Mary Hart should've pointed out that the people working the hardest to "separate [gays and lesbians] from society" are MORMONS. Christ.
2
Oh, come on, Dan. Just because the Morman church is kind of a douchy institution doesn't mean that its members have never been the victim of persecution, nor does it mean that its members necessarily agree with it on all fronts. Truth be told, how many practicing Catholics do you know who are pro-gay and down with abortion rights, despite those ideas being nothing short of heretical to the Catholic hierarchy? You should be happy to have an ally who can relate to the religious right. Sheesh.
3
Yeah, usually Mary Hart is right on top of things like that. I bet the powers that be at Entertainment Tonight are going to make Hart retake their "hardball-questioning-of-C-listers" class.
4
Dan,
I'm going to agree with Jocelyn @ 2, and say we should be grateful to have an ally who relate to the Mormon church. I think she did well. She is coming out in her own way. She may have said more, that was not included, too. And, maybe Mary Hart knew the ice cream was melting.
I'm going to agree with Jocelyn @ 2, and say we should be grateful to have an ally who relate to the Mormon church. I think she did well. She is coming out in her own way. She may have said more, that was not included, too. And, maybe Mary Hart knew the ice cream was melting.
5
As a non-Mormon Free Range Christian who has lived in Salt Lake City, I have to chime in and agree with those who take this as a positive step. The Mormons insulated in Happy Valley need to see very prominent church members stand up for gay family members. Now we need to remind them (and Marie) of this stand as things continue to heat up.
6
But she cares!
Dan, thought you'd get a larf out of this, in light of the whining Larry Stickney is doing today about those meanie gays that don't let him bash them silently.
Dan, thought you'd get a larf out of this, in light of the whining Larry Stickney is doing today about those meanie gays that don't let him bash them silently.
Let voters decide benefits
Referendum 71 will be signed on the streets and in the churches across Washington in the next month. People want to decide for themselves whether the benefits and responsibilities of marriage (180 applications) should apply equally to any same-sex couple who registers with the state. This is what Senate Bill 5688 will require unless 120,577 valid signatures are submitted by July 25.
Four reasons why I support R-71:
1. It is a fact that marriage benefits all of society; as well as men, women, and children. It reduces poverty, enhances health, longevity and happiness.
2. It is a fact that homosexual coupling is medically dangerous and costly to society and individuals.
3. R-71 will allow every voter in November to stop SB5688 and save scarce resources, preserve the essential boundaries of traditional marriage, and protect personal freedoms and public health.
4. I care!
Promote R-71 and let the people decide.
Penny A. Lancaster
Spokane
7
WTFWJDhahaha I'm so edgy and secular! I believe in God, make pointless blog posts with pathetic attempts to understand His scripture, dodge as much shit as possible to kind of make sense, and call people uneducated! Weee!
Of course your God doesn't hate "fags," but he does hate homosexuality. And he most certainly hates abortion. If you're going to follow a religion, maybe you should actually follow it. Instead of trying to excuse yourself from all of the hatred your religion causes, why not simply wake up and realize how retarded you are for believing a fucking word in that book of shit? Even if you're "kind" and "loving" to thy neighbor, you're still a believer of justified bigotry and fast-food morals.
Stupid cunt.
Of course your God doesn't hate "fags," but he does hate homosexuality. And he most certainly hates abortion. If you're going to follow a religion, maybe you should actually follow it. Instead of trying to excuse yourself from all of the hatred your religion causes, why not simply wake up and realize how retarded you are for believing a fucking word in that book of shit? Even if you're "kind" and "loving" to thy neighbor, you're still a believer of justified bigotry and fast-food morals.
Stupid cunt.
8
How horrible, the fact that this woman had to go on national television to confront such rumors speak volumes to what levels will some gay groups stoop in other to drive through their goals. Now they're attacking the children of famous Mormons, all other groups better become vigilant because coupled with finding out their addresses this seems to be the next move in the intimidation war they have embarked.
10
"WE'RE WINNING"
Dan is so hyped up on baiting Mormons he can't see the forest.
Marie, sweet Marie, and her clan, to put it mildly, are very influential in these conservative circles. Their music is rot to my ears, but all and all it is an amazing run.
Score a point - "were winning" - in many places and in many ways.
Trying to figure why a lapsed Catholics doesn't like Mormons is not hard, by the way - and it sure feels like shifting blame as the conservative Catholic Church is just as bad on a list of issues as any Mormon. And it has tons more influence on ANY one of those issue.
Dan is so hyped up on baiting Mormons he can't see the forest.
Marie, sweet Marie, and her clan, to put it mildly, are very influential in these conservative circles. Their music is rot to my ears, but all and all it is an amazing run.
Score a point - "were winning" - in many places and in many ways.
Trying to figure why a lapsed Catholics doesn't like Mormons is not hard, by the way - and it sure feels like shifting blame as the conservative Catholic Church is just as bad on a list of issues as any Mormon. And it has tons more influence on ANY one of those issue.
11
8
What rumors are your talking about? How are gays responsible for Marie Osmond doing an interview on ET? Are you saying her daughter isn't gay, and that the woman is being slandered as a means of attacking the Mormon Church?
What rumors are your talking about? How are gays responsible for Marie Osmond doing an interview on ET? Are you saying her daughter isn't gay, and that the woman is being slandered as a means of attacking the Mormon Church?
13
As a lesbian with a Mormon mom who both adores the Osmonds and hates gays I really appreciate Marie Osmond talking openly about loving her lesbian daughter.
17
Marie Osmond is one deluded weirdo. I saw her on Oprah talking about how she was so fat and her children were afraid for her life (she was a size 12 or 14, hardly morbidly obese). Then she went on and on about how she needed to lose weight for her health, and how she got over her obsession with just "looking good". And finally she finished up by telling everyone how she got down to a size 2 in a month on nutrisystems. Excuse me, what?? That is not healthy weight loss at all, and to be healthy you do not need to be a size two. She is crumbling on the inside, I tell you.
20
11 Just because you are willing to run around charing personal private things of your life that doesn't mean that every other mother feels the same urge to expose themselves like that. I do have to say, given the rabid elements outhere now, she did the best tempered response to this she could without putting her life in danger.
21
Lurleen @6:
I especially liked #2 on the list:
"2. It is a fact that homosexual coupling is medically dangerous and costly to society and individuals."
What reality has that person been living in - historically (and medically) it has been shown that heterosexual coupling that is dangerous and costly. (that babies - and death in childbirth - as well as the cost associated with that side effect should be proof alone; although there are many others).
I especially liked #2 on the list:
"2. It is a fact that homosexual coupling is medically dangerous and costly to society and individuals."
What reality has that person been living in - historically (and medically) it has been shown that heterosexual coupling that is dangerous and costly. (that babies - and death in childbirth - as well as the cost associated with that side effect should be proof alone; although there are many others).
24
20, Marie Osmond, and her daughter have more to fear from people like you. She actually loves and supports her gay child. I'd hate to think of what you'd do to your child when he or she comes out to you. (Chances are the results of your reaction to one of your children being gay would put you in a "Every Child Deserves A Mother And A Father" post.)
25
Stupidity cries out for intolerance. Have you seen the crap that the Mormons claim to believe? Jesus - after being KILLED, for Christ's sake - came over to America (boat? plane? who knows) to preach to the Indians. The Indians, in fact, are the lost tribes of Israel. Who knew? Do the Mormons really, really believe such nonsense? Who would want to believe things that they know are false?
26
Keekee @ 15, stand in line. As much as I hate to admit it, Marie looks every bit as desirable as when I first saw her at age 13. Even I could be a "little bit country" nowadays.
27
25 - Yeah, Mormonism requires believing a lot of stupid stuff (dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb), but that's not exactly the issue here. We've got someone who has every reason to be on their side, but who is on our side, at least on this issue. I think a little pragmatism is in order.
29
Dan -- Is it your view that a devoted Catholic (for instance) mother (for instance) of a gay son (for instance) who expresses support for said offspring and similarly-situated individuals should be met with a "But the CATHOLICS ...!" (for instance) rejoinder at every public expression of such support???
31
@ 20,
What?
Is "charing your personal private things", like telling people your in your 20s and you have two boys 6 feet tall? You put out private information about yourself.
People who grant interviews such as those seen on ET, provide a list of topics that are off limits. She didn't seem terrible surprised she was asked about her daughter. Besides, she sounds proud of her daughter, and why wouldn't she be?
What?
Is "charing your personal private things", like telling people your in your 20s and you have two boys 6 feet tall? You put out private information about yourself.
People who grant interviews such as those seen on ET, provide a list of topics that are off limits. She didn't seem terrible surprised she was asked about her daughter. Besides, she sounds proud of her daughter, and why wouldn't she be?
32
Dan had better knock off the Mary Hart wisecracks...this is NOT her first time at the rodeo...she's been doing this shit since Dan was in Prep Squad and she will have him eliminated. (He'll be on her list right under Lara Spencer)
Has anyone heard from Leeza Gibbons recently?
I've made my point.
Has anyone heard from Leeza Gibbons recently?
I've made my point.
33
Marie's divorced. How good a Mormon is she really? Won't that keep her out of heaven? If she weren't rich and famous and a poster child for Moroni, they might have shunned her years ago. Also, I'd break off a piece of that.
38
@2 is right. @29 is super right. C'mon Dan, keep your eyes on the prize. Why are you calling out her answer in a puff-piece interview instead of praising it?
39
37 - What religion is that? All I ever said was that I like Jesus. Dan's the one who called me a Christian when he linked to my blog. I hadn't been using that label.
But, regardless, all religions involve believing in something that's kinda dumb, but some are more hilariously dumb than others. In that respect, Mormonism is right up there with Scientology.
But, regardless, all religions involve believing in something that's kinda dumb, but some are more hilariously dumb than others. In that respect, Mormonism is right up there with Scientology.
40
#33
you digress completely to the non logic
Marie and Donny are STILL devout Mormon, to the max.
If Marie says I love my Lesbian daughter, THAT is monumental.
Big news.
God is pleased and so is Dick Cheney.
you digress completely to the non logic
Marie and Donny are STILL devout Mormon, to the max.
If Marie says I love my Lesbian daughter, THAT is monumental.
Big news.
God is pleased and so is Dick Cheney.
41
Man I don't even know what to say about that. "Wow" works (yeah!). I'm laughing my fucking ass off.
43
Astonishing! I'd never expect to hear "whatever" from some airhead who casually adopts fragments of beliefs so that it better suits her little world. Good for you! No, really. Brav-o.
Jjjjyeah, I don't have a religion, but I really like Jesus. One would think it's because I'm a really nice person, and reserve no judgment whatsoever for anyone, but here's this blog where I attempt to tear apart all those stupid Christians (yay generalization! Jesus loves that). And Mormons?! OMG they are SOOOO stupid! Haha, get off the phone, nigga!
Jjjjyeah, I don't have a religion, but I really like Jesus. One would think it's because I'm a really nice person, and reserve no judgment whatsoever for anyone, but here's this blog where I attempt to tear apart all those stupid Christians (yay generalization! Jesus loves that). And Mormons?! OMG they are SOOOO stupid! Haha, get off the phone, nigga!
45
Holy shit! My name is Mr. Poe, and I like to insult people for having an opinion on the Internet. Blawging is soooooo 2007. Cunt cunt cunt. I have like three friends because my main pleasure in life comes from calling other people stupid cunts, you stupid cunt. Cunt cunt cunt.
Oh, and if you're going to do something cunty believe in God and have any interest in Jesus at all, you'd better be an ultra-fundamentalist because we need more of those cunts, and it doesn't make any cunting sense to decide for yourself what to believe, you cunt. Cunt cunt cunt. I'm gonna go play with my cat. I mean cunt.
You, sir, are the poster-boy for intelligence. Kudos.
Oh, and if you're going to do something cunty believe in God and have any interest in Jesus at all, you'd better be an ultra-fundamentalist because we need more of those cunts, and it doesn't make any cunting sense to decide for yourself what to believe, you cunt. Cunt cunt cunt. I'm gonna go play with my cat. I mean cunt.
You, sir, are the poster-boy for intelligence. Kudos.
47
Awesome Junior High retort! That'll show me! Oh, whoa, plot thickens! You like Jesus and believe in God but you have no religion?! When Jesus thinks of you, his palm covers his face. Guaranteed.
50
Why stop at junior high? Let's get elementary school on this thing:
YOU STARTED IT!!!!
"And Mormons?! OMG they are SOOOO stupid! Haha, get off the phone, nigga!"
Just a reminder. Anyway, I didn't say I have no religion. I didn't say I had a religion. In fact, I've been pretty purposefully unspecific about that whole thing. It's kind of fun, actually, to see the kind of assumptions people make about what I believe, as though it matters. Behavior is what counts, dude. And on that front, you get an epic fail.
Obviously, that doesn't apply to me though. I get to sit around and judge people, just like Jesus intended. Ain't hypocrisy grand?
YOU STARTED IT!!!!
"And Mormons?! OMG they are SOOOO stupid! Haha, get off the phone, nigga!"
Just a reminder. Anyway, I didn't say I have no religion. I didn't say I had a religion. In fact, I've been pretty purposefully unspecific about that whole thing. It's kind of fun, actually, to see the kind of assumptions people make about what I believe, as though it matters. Behavior is what counts, dude. And on that front, you get an epic fail.
Obviously, that doesn't apply to me though. I get to sit around and judge people, just like Jesus intended. Ain't hypocrisy grand?
51
Yes, behavior is what counts. And I give you an A+ for all of the above. I was totally expecting you to Chelsea-Alvarez Bell this with a fucking novel about how I can't hurt you.
You win.
You win.
52
I had to look up Chelsea-Alvarez Bell. Did she really quit because SLOG commenters were too mean? And by slog commenters, does she mean you? That's pretty weak.
Also, I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, nor am I sure whether or not it's a good thing to win a "cunt fight."
Tell the truth: 7 is you and 9 is you agreeing with yourself. y/n?
Also, I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, nor am I sure whether or not it's a good thing to win a "cunt fight."
Tell the truth: 7 is you and 9 is you agreeing with yourself. y/n?
54
All this fuss, just to get to her advertisement for a lo-cal dessert.
All the fuss. To advertise her diet products. Sorry she did this to you, guys.
When she's ACTUALLY supportive of gay rights, she'll do an interview about gay rights. Still, she's prettier than I've seen her in a while -- kind-of a Farrah Fawcett thing going on there.
All the fuss. To advertise her diet products. Sorry she did this to you, guys.
When she's ACTUALLY supportive of gay rights, she'll do an interview about gay rights. Still, she's prettier than I've seen her in a while -- kind-of a Farrah Fawcett thing going on there.
55
#54 She did this because the tabloids and Perez Hilton outed her daughter, claimed that they didn't speak and that Marie was "heartbroken" and "disappointed." She was responding to those comments - that she didn't support her daughter. This was her only message because she was accused of *not* supporting her.
In another radio interview, she said something like "regarding marriage everyone should be able to have their civil rights" and in the outtakes of the interview on ET's website she said, "My daughter should be able to have her rights."
In another radio interview, she said something like "regarding marriage everyone should be able to have their civil rights" and in the outtakes of the interview on ET's website she said, "My daughter should be able to have her rights."
57
53 - Still, I haven't read the comments that made her quit, but if you're so affected by angry, bullshit criticism from trolls, you really shouldn't be a journalist. No excuse for being in the public eye if you can't handle a few insults.
58
I'm just waiting for the Jews to start killing rams in the Temple at Jerusalem after they bulldoze the dome of the rock. In the room the women come and go talking of Mormons.
61
Poor girl ... but you can see how it would be pretty pointless for her to be straight, if you know what I mean. Marie, on the other hand, is looking pretty damned hot after all these years!
64
Dan, I really don't understand what your point here is?
So when Mormons attack gays we should attack them and when a Mormon speaks out for her child we should still attack them?!
So when Mormons attack gays we should attack them and when a Mormon speaks out for her child we should still attack them?!
65
#60 Yes, why not? Marie's daughter may be a lesbian and Marie loves her a lot, but we darn well know that Marie's tithe to the church still paid for the passage of prop. 8 in California. So what, we're supposed to ostracize all gays except for Marie's daughter? Typical bogus religious crap. Tax the churches. If the fundies want to live in the stone age, let 'em. Just not in my country. They can Mayflower to Mogadishu, where they'll be welcomed with open arms. Oh, this just in, Jamestown is looking for some new occupants. Perhaps they can try there. The rent's pretty cheap.
66
#65 Do we all darn well know that? I don't.
I know that donations from individual members and businesses from the Mormon community funded over 50% of the campaign. We definitely know this because all the finance forms list all the individual Mormons. So far, the investigation hasn't found any "church" administration money. But, I suppose it could. The church encouraged its members to give, that's for sure, which worked just as well as giving its own money.
But, this doesn't connect at all to any of Marie's tithe money. Especially if she designates the money to be used in one specific place (many years ago, she said on interviews that most of her tithe money went to Children's Miracle Network, since CMN needed it most).
The problem with assumptions is that they work both ways. Those who don't like gays and lesbians assume they all act in a certain way, and those who don't like Mormons assume they all act in a certain way. Both sides assume numerous things about the other.
I wish, instead of this, we tried to actually learn about each other. *sigh*
I know that donations from individual members and businesses from the Mormon community funded over 50% of the campaign. We definitely know this because all the finance forms list all the individual Mormons. So far, the investigation hasn't found any "church" administration money. But, I suppose it could. The church encouraged its members to give, that's for sure, which worked just as well as giving its own money.
But, this doesn't connect at all to any of Marie's tithe money. Especially if she designates the money to be used in one specific place (many years ago, she said on interviews that most of her tithe money went to Children's Miracle Network, since CMN needed it most).
The problem with assumptions is that they work both ways. Those who don't like gays and lesbians assume they all act in a certain way, and those who don't like Mormons assume they all act in a certain way. Both sides assume numerous things about the other.
I wish, instead of this, we tried to actually learn about each other. *sigh*
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