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News & ArtsThursday, May 28, 2009
Savage Love Savage Love Letter of the Day
Posted by Dan Savage on Thu, May 28, 2009 at 3:38 PM
Didn't think I'd have occasion to seek your advice, but here we are. I'm a gay male, 22, and things are going swimmingly with my boyfriend, 21, of close to four months. Plenty of things I like about a man are present and accounted for... except where it comes to your area of expertise, of course. My sex drive is low and his is nonexistent. On top of that, he's never had a sexual experience. As in never, ever. We've been grown-ups and had candid, serious discussions about what we like, what we want, where our comfort zones lie, the whole ordeal. We came away with the understanding that since he's on the spot with his zero experience, the ball is in his court. My body is his to do what he will with whenever the spirit moves him. He's since taken this situation as an excuse to never bring it up again.We're intellectually compatible. We like each other and jive physically and we don't have any awkwardness sharing a bed and doing the cuddle thing. But he just has... not... made a move for my dick in our three-hour morning contortion sessions. I entered this relationship thinking that some day I'd like him to fuck me, but I'm discovering more and more that his hang-up isn't nervousness, inexperience, or fear, but the fact that he just doesn't seem to want to have sex with anyone. Ever.
I like him bunches, and he's a tough catch to throw back, but I see myself with three options:
1. Go back on our deal and initiate sex my damned self.
2. Part ways with him when I move out west in a couple of months.
3. Dump his ass right this second.Your thoughts?
Limited In My Patience
Talking about sex with a brand new boyfriend should be a pleasure, LIMP, not an ordeal. If you're not still in the honeymoon stage at four months—if you're not still besotted with each other and if you're not in each others' pants constantly*—you should be anxious to throw him back, LIMP, not reluctant. Thank God you're moving west, LIMP, as that event provides you with a graceful, face-saving, low-stress exit. Stop stressing about your sex life with this guy because you're not to have either—sex with him, a life with him—and enjoy the cuddles until you take off.
* "constantly" in this context is relative, of course, and depends on the relative libidos of the folks involved.
2
for most of us - cuddle is the so so warm up part, or post blowing your load part - not the goal
GET VERY AGGRESSIVE - TOP OR BOTTOM - GO FOR EVERYTHING YOU HAVE EVER IMAGINED DOING WITH SOMEONE, USE PORN, DIRTY TALK, DON'T LET HIM SAY ANYTHING, THIS IS NOT INTELLECTUAL WORK, ANIMAL WORK
if that does not work, walk away, stay friends and tell him every dirty joke you hear over and over, poor thing
GET VERY AGGRESSIVE - TOP OR BOTTOM - GO FOR EVERYTHING YOU HAVE EVER IMAGINED DOING WITH SOMEONE, USE PORN, DIRTY TALK, DON'T LET HIM SAY ANYTHING, THIS IS NOT INTELLECTUAL WORK, ANIMAL WORK
if that does not work, walk away, stay friends and tell him every dirty joke you hear over and over, poor thing
3
He needs to get a medical check up too, whether you stay or go. He's got a lot of years ahead of him. Where's the testosterone?
4
Maybe the guy is Mormon and is trying to be celebate according to church doctrine. I dated a guy like that. Besides kissing and cuddling, he pretty much didn't do anything to me down there and his area was off limits too.
6
Maybe he thinks cuddling is initiating and expects you to respond to that with something more sexual.
7
If you're in your early 20s and he is too, then realize this ain't for you and dump his ass.
And then convert to Catholicism.
And then convert to Catholicism.
8
The second I read "We came away with the understanding that since he's on the spot with his zero experience, the ball is in his court. My body is his to do what he will with whenever the spirit moves him."... I knew what the next sentence would say. It sounds good in theory, but that just does not ever work. And I'm speaking from experience here as an oversexed woman in a relationship with an undersexed man.
On the other hand, if you do manage to get it worked out, for goodness' sake, tell me how. =)
On the other hand, if you do manage to get it worked out, for goodness' sake, tell me how. =)
10
Wench is right, You guys came up with a stupid-ass plan. Let the inexperienced one who is probably shy and nervous be the first one to touch dick? He's initiating three hour contortion sessions and you haven't contorted in such a way as to make dick to SOMETHING contact? He's trying to initiate, but he's probably just sort of a pussy (er, you know what I mean).
C'mon. Touch it. Toooouch it. Kiss it.
Or just move on, I guess. Because it would be so much easier.
C'mon. Touch it. Toooouch it. Kiss it.
Or just move on, I guess. Because it would be so much easier.
11
Holy crap! 4 months together and you haven't had sex at all? Are either of you really gay? When my BF and I were in our first 4 months, we were fucking several times a day. Every day. Without exception. We probably would have fucked more if I wasn't working 2 jobs at the time.
I realize that some people have lower sex drives than others, but that ain't right. In 4 months, have either of you jacked off? Even once? If so, then you have a functioning sex drive (albeit low). And if you are jacking off instead of doing each other, the problem isn't your lack of sex drive. One of you (or maybe both of you) isn't into the other, physically.
I realize that some people have lower sex drives than others, but that ain't right. In 4 months, have either of you jacked off? Even once? If so, then you have a functioning sex drive (albeit low). And if you are jacking off instead of doing each other, the problem isn't your lack of sex drive. One of you (or maybe both of you) isn't into the other, physically.
12
GET THAT BOY TO A DOCTOR! Seriously, something is wrong there, a 20 year old should be permanently horny.
13
He sounds like he has a problem getting it up. That's not something that trips off the tongue, especially when you're only twenty one. Sit him down and really have a heart to heart talk. Tell him he can tell you anything because you care a great deal for him. If nothing else, it will give you practice for future relationships.
14
LIMP, what Mr Savage did not say is that a big sexual relationship is not the be all and end all of a relationship. If you click in all other ways it may be nice to have him around.
15
Man, that's the horror of dealing with the social stigma of being gay coupled with the horror of a married straight couple's sex life. Dude, that's not a life worth living.
What kind of self respecting gay man could make a married straight man pity him for his sex life? Seriously. Jesus.
What kind of self respecting gay man could make a married straight man pity him for his sex life? Seriously. Jesus.
17
Agree with #14. Not everybody is screamingly horny, not even in their 20s; some people are just relatively asexual, even if they're normal and healthy. However, that may not make him a good fit for you if you *do* have a strong sex drive and need someone who can help you fulfill it.
18
LIMP,
You could just ask him why he seems shy about sex. Could be low sex drive. It could be religious guilt. It could be some abuse issue. Take the initiative. Just ask him what's up...and drag both your butts to a doctor. You two are in your early twenties, you should be boffing like little gay bunnies! Neither one of you should have a low/zero sex drive!
You could just ask him why he seems shy about sex. Could be low sex drive. It could be religious guilt. It could be some abuse issue. Take the initiative. Just ask him what's up...and drag both your butts to a doctor. You two are in your early twenties, you should be boffing like little gay bunnies! Neither one of you should have a low/zero sex drive!
19
I say wake him up with a BJ...just to see what happens...then report back to SLOG...We all want to know.
21
#19
Having been there more than once, he might not wake up - but get hard and jizz all over the place moaning nicely.
so ... yes ... proceed. And if it works at all, should get thing moving.
Need full report here at Sex Central Advisers Inc.
Having been there more than once, he might not wake up - but get hard and jizz all over the place moaning nicely.
so ... yes ... proceed. And if it works at all, should get thing moving.
Need full report here at Sex Central Advisers Inc.
22
@19 - That's tightrope walking the line of consent, especially if it has been previously agreed that the ball is in the boyfriend's court. Making a move on him while he's actually awake and able to respond, however, is a great idea.
23
I think it was just a bad idea to let him decide, being that he's so inexperienced. Ease him into the idea, get him aroused, then the opportunity may present itself. If that involves drinking, making out or whatever, then so be it. I wouldn't write him off entirely at this point, sometimes people just need a little push in the right direction.
Exhibit A:
High school boyfriends
Exhibit A:
High school boyfriends
24
LIMP,
Do you guys make out and roll around? Is there any arousal at all? You two need to be talking about this. Perhaps, he is just frightened, or has some feelings of guilt, been abused, or he is concerned about a part of his body (penis larger or smaller than average, uncircumcised and unable to fully retract, etc.) You need to know what is going on in his head.
Do you guys make out and roll around? Is there any arousal at all? You two need to be talking about this. Perhaps, he is just frightened, or has some feelings of guilt, been abused, or he is concerned about a part of his body (penis larger or smaller than average, uncircumcised and unable to fully retract, etc.) You need to know what is going on in his head.
25
As a female, when I was really inexperienced I was way too shy to start anything. I told my boyfriend I wanted to move slowly and he was good about not pushing too hard, but if he hadn't initiated anything we wouldn't have ever gotten anywhere. Don't be a jerk about it (be prepared to stop gracefully if he says no or doesn't seem into it), but try initiating something-- try to stroke him or kiss him or whatever.
Also it may or may not be a problem but its probably a good call to check this out with a doctor just in case.
Also it may or may not be a problem but its probably a good call to check this out with a doctor just in case.
26
The simple explanation is just what you said. He really doesn't want to have sex with anyone ever. Some people are totally asexual. There is nothing wrong with them any more than there is with a person of any other orientation. They are born that way and deserve to be treated respectfully.
27
Okay I am going to go out on a limb here and say he may not be gay... He's het, but not the way you might think. He could, deep down have a gender issue that's being confused with sexual orientation. If he has a male body, and likes guys he must be gay right? No always. Many ('het') trans people are unable to have a relationship or sex until they resolve their gender issue. Which for some doesn't happen until middle age if ever. He may want to have sex with men - but can only do so as a woman.
28
@22.. I was just being a smartass/dumbass...but really sometimes when there is too much analysis going on, someone needs to step up and just take action (preferably NOT during the conversation about the sex...too akward to transition..." now that we've discussed our needs, let's be intimate"...okay...bam! Weird).
Morning just seems a universal time most men are Up and Ready....a good time to test the waters.
But, I agree with #1 and # 27..this boy probably aint gay:)
Morning just seems a universal time most men are Up and Ready....a good time to test the waters.
But, I agree with #1 and # 27..this boy probably aint gay:)
29
it is TOO much pressure for the less experienced one to do with your body as he will. he probably has no idea what to do with it! and so while that sounds very understanding of you, it would be more understanding of you to SHOW him what to do with your body as he will.
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