Find Your Valentine
Slog
News & ArtsWednesday, May 27, 2009
Crime / Film Dear Lars Von Trier
Posted by David Schmader on Wed, May 27, 2009 at 9:45 AM
I hailed you as a genius when you crammed Emily Watson in hot pants and had her raped by God. I stood by you when you hanged a blind Bjork and forced Nicole Kidman to wear a ox-yoke chained to a boulder (or whatever heavy thing that was). But I do not believe I can support this (from the Agence France-Presse):
Cannes entered the final straight on Saturday with more controversy over Anti-Christ...Lars von Trier's film was declared "the most misogynist movie from the self-proclaimed biggest director in the world" by an Ecumenical Jury, which....was so shocked by Von Trier's film—which closes with a shot of a clitoris being sliced off with rusty scissors—that it felt the need to award a special "anti-prize."
Seriously: You're becoming the art-house Max Hardcore. Please find something other than women to torture. I dare you.
P.S. I understand that judging uncontextualized hearsay about a film is bullshit, but having sat through at least eight preexisting hours of you torturing women, you deserve some bullshit.
(Photo courtesy of Celebrityzine.)
2
God I hate LVT's movies, and I'm deeply suspicious of people who enjoy them. I'll take "Salo" over "Doggville" or "Breaking the Waves" anytime.
7
To hell with that prick. I sat through "Breaking the Waves" and "Dancer," and I saw enough to say never again. I don't care who he thinks he is, his sensibility is all about taking sick pleasure from brutalizing women. there's nothing new to see here. Move along.
8
Everybody has a line; for some its Pink Flamingos (i will never get that dancing singing asshole out of my head...ever) and for some its LVT...
9
Whatever, most "romantic comedies" and Oscar-friendly dramas are far more misogynist than anything Van Trier has done. But, the only kind of violence mainstream movie reviewers and the mainstream press ever recognizes is the most overt and spectacular. Thus, everyone focuses on Kidman getting tortured in Dogville but not on the scathing critique of community (and AMERICAN community more specifically) in which these scenes of violence were functioning. I haven't seen this film yet, but I'm VERY SKEPTICAL of knee-jerk reactions to spectacular violence.
10
@9 Dogville was a piece of shit that only Divine would eat. Commentary and critique are only valid if he knows what he is talking about. And, LVT didn't know. LVT is an ass.
I watched several of his movies on the basis that I really REALLY enjoyed The Kingdom, and now I hate his guts.
And, the gay porn produced under the adult arm of his production company is just purely dumb and boring.
I watched several of his movies on the basis that I really REALLY enjoyed The Kingdom, and now I hate his guts.
And, the gay porn produced under the adult arm of his production company is just purely dumb and boring.
11
Yeah, judging uncontextualized hearsay about a film you haven't seen IS bullshit. And to say that if someone makes films where the main character is female and gets tortured is misogynistic is silly, considering the countless films where the main character is male and gets tortured that no ones gives one thought about. You're completely ignoring the characters themselves by doing that. What about these characters looks at them misogynistic? Most of them are good and self-sacrificing. This knee-jerk reaction to his films just diverts the focus from the film itself. I haven't seen it and I'm not going to pass judgment on it until I do, but just by saying there is violence against women in it is no more misogynistic than saying violence against men is misandristic.
12
but the tv series "the kingdom" was wonderful, whatever justifiable qualms people may have with his films. i personally like von trier's tragedies, though they are flawed.
13
Hmm, I don't believe I've seen any of this guy's movies. Sounds like I haven't missed much. I guess being an old, boring, un-hip fart can have its advantages.
14
@11 Just to clarify. I don't really like LVT's films. Yeah, he's a pretentious ass and his films aren't that good. I'll watch Antichrist and I probably won't care much for it as I haven't cared for his other films, but this knee-jerk reaction to violence is just that.
16
You know, there is very little point in linking to images of the movie posters in question, if all that can be seen at the other end is a 403 Forbidden message.
17
I've loathed Von Trier for awhile now. He quickly lost the balance of tone that made Breaking the Waves great. Ever since, he has increasingly operated from a head space of despair and cruelty. The way he treats his actresses--and his audience--has been despicable for quite some time.
Long have I been baffled by the generally positive critical reception for Dancer in the Dark. It's film-as-tantrum, a bitter, unsubtle, pea-brained piece of garbage. The hatreds in that movie, of musicals, of America, of helplessness, are childishly unfocused. It was just a grind for no reason: Get everyone to love Bjork, then subject her to unrelenting pain, suffering and death. Von Trier has nothing insightful to say really, he's just ranting like a 3-year-old who hates his mommy because she won't let him have another cookie.
Anyway, yeah. There are reports that Von Trier's movie is the result of a vicious, borderline suicidal bout of depression he suffered through (and continues to, according to some), and if that's accurate, I sympathize. However, it is my fervent hope that this movie--which was widely despised at Cannes despite this bizarre "anti-prize" thing--makes it impossible for Von Trier to work in the field of moviemaking ever again.
Long have I been baffled by the generally positive critical reception for Dancer in the Dark. It's film-as-tantrum, a bitter, unsubtle, pea-brained piece of garbage. The hatreds in that movie, of musicals, of America, of helplessness, are childishly unfocused. It was just a grind for no reason: Get everyone to love Bjork, then subject her to unrelenting pain, suffering and death. Von Trier has nothing insightful to say really, he's just ranting like a 3-year-old who hates his mommy because she won't let him have another cookie.
Anyway, yeah. There are reports that Von Trier's movie is the result of a vicious, borderline suicidal bout of depression he suffered through (and continues to, according to some), and if that's accurate, I sympathize. However, it is my fervent hope that this movie--which was widely despised at Cannes despite this bizarre "anti-prize" thing--makes it impossible for Von Trier to work in the field of moviemaking ever again.
18
He's never even been to the United States.
"Von" Trier's trajectory reminds me of Todd Solondz in many ways. Welcome to the Dollhouse was a great, albeit misanthropic, film. Every film thereafter has becoming more and more misanthropic and more and more irrelevant. Palindromes was unwatchable.
What really pisses me off about Trier is that his shitty movies and his shitty worldview make people think Danes are miserable killjoys.
Commentary and critique are only valid if he knows what he is talking about. And, LVT didn't know. LVT is an ass.
He's never even been to the United States.
"Von" Trier's trajectory reminds me of Todd Solondz in many ways. Welcome to the Dollhouse was a great, albeit misanthropic, film. Every film thereafter has becoming more and more misanthropic and more and more irrelevant. Palindromes was unwatchable.
What really pisses me off about Trier is that his shitty movies and his shitty worldview make people think Danes are miserable killjoys.
19
Medea doesn't feature women getting tortured; instead, it features a 7-year-old child pulling on his 3-year-old brother's ankles while he hangs from a rope before the mother kills the 7-year-old as well.
I know lots of mythology features fratri-, patri-, matri-, and filicide, but when the slow execution of two hapless children lasts half the movie, there's something else going on.
I know lots of mythology features fratri-, patri-, matri-, and filicide, but when the slow execution of two hapless children lasts half the movie, there's something else going on.
20
For your consideration:
"Truth is a woman." - Nietzsche
Does this change how you respond to LVT's inquiries or will you go down the well-worn (an now disregarded) path that N was a misogynist too?
"Truth is a woman." - Nietzsche
Does this change how you respond to LVT's inquiries or will you go down the well-worn (an now disregarded) path that N was a misogynist too?
21
@11: Certainly, context and intent matter. The thing people get upset about is that in Lars von Trier's films, the torturing of women seems to be included just for its own sake.
Contrast with The Passion of Joan of Arc: the whole movie is a depiction of the main character's trial, torture, and execution, but when was the last time you heard that movie called misogynist? Even knowing that Carl Th. Dreyer was horrible to Falconetti during filming, to the point that she had an emotional breakdown and never acted in film again.
Contrast with The Passion of Joan of Arc: the whole movie is a depiction of the main character's trial, torture, and execution, but when was the last time you heard that movie called misogynist? Even knowing that Carl Th. Dreyer was horrible to Falconetti during filming, to the point that she had an emotional breakdown and never acted in film again.
22
@15 First off, Dogville could not be compared to Casablanca. Casablanca was hardly a searing indictment of Morrocan society. And LVT directly said that Dogville was an indictment of America. But, saying Casablanca was an indictment of Morocco is like saying Othello is an indictment of Italy, or Hamlet of Denmark. The setting doesn't make the point, the intent makes the point. And, Dogville was intended as an American indictment. Which makes it retarded.
That being said, the female torture doesn't bother me. It probably should, but I kind of enjoy those violent horror movies, whether they're aimed at men or women. Call me sick or whatever, I prefer to be called Misanthropic. Just torture everybody equally.
And, I'll probably go see Anti-Christ because I immensely enjoyed The Kingdom as a horror series (I don't think there was much torture in there). But, we do need to stop LVT from making more movies. Take away his video camera and sew up his mouth. And, he can't touch anything from behind the screen either. HotMen/CoolBoyz was the most boner-killing porn I have ever seen.
LVT is no Michael Haneke.
...
@18 Solondz has only made 4 movies, and I vastly enjoyed 3 of them. Storytelling was vastly amusing to me, if only because it was a cinematic tantrum against his critics. Also, Solondz doesn't create whole diatribes of bullshit on how to make a movie. Fucking Dogme95.
That being said, the female torture doesn't bother me. It probably should, but I kind of enjoy those violent horror movies, whether they're aimed at men or women. Call me sick or whatever, I prefer to be called Misanthropic. Just torture everybody equally.
And, I'll probably go see Anti-Christ because I immensely enjoyed The Kingdom as a horror series (I don't think there was much torture in there). But, we do need to stop LVT from making more movies. Take away his video camera and sew up his mouth. And, he can't touch anything from behind the screen either. HotMen/CoolBoyz was the most boner-killing porn I have ever seen.
LVT is no Michael Haneke.
...
@18 Solondz has only made 4 movies, and I vastly enjoyed 3 of them. Storytelling was vastly amusing to me, if only because it was a cinematic tantrum against his critics. Also, Solondz doesn't create whole diatribes of bullshit on how to make a movie. Fucking Dogme95.
23
@21 I had heard it was misogynistic by the same professor that said that The Birds and Alfred Hitchcock was misogynistic.
On the other hand, LVT's movies remind me of something John Waters wrote in Crackpot. "These films I make are my crimes. Only, I get paid for them instead of doing time." LVT is hateful, but gets it out through cinematic therapy...unfortunately that subjects the movie going audience to it as well. And, the arthouse crowd EATS IT UP.
On the other hand, LVT's movies remind me of something John Waters wrote in Crackpot. "These films I make are my crimes. Only, I get paid for them instead of doing time." LVT is hateful, but gets it out through cinematic therapy...unfortunately that subjects the movie going audience to it as well. And, the arthouse crowd EATS IT UP.
24
@20: As a wise slog commenter once wrote, "If bullshit had a brain, it would quote Nietzsche".
1. Nietzsche's misogyny should not automatically be assumed, but neither is it a closed question; it's still a source of productive debate.
2. The idea of writing symbolic "truth" on a woman's body is also open to debate. Especially since it relies on the given that "woman" symbolizes all that is tortured, debased and degraded in our society -- something I don't think we all can agree on, wouldn't you say?
1. Nietzsche's misogyny should not automatically be assumed, but neither is it a closed question; it's still a source of productive debate.
2. The idea of writing symbolic "truth" on a woman's body is also open to debate. Especially since it relies on the given that "woman" symbolizes all that is tortured, debased and degraded in our society -- something I don't think we all can agree on, wouldn't you say?
26
@Schmader
P.S. Completely unrelated. If you didn't go to Fisherspooner last night, you missed Showgirls being used as background footage for a concert. Kind of awesome.
P.S. Completely unrelated. If you didn't go to Fisherspooner last night, you missed Showgirls being used as background footage for a concert. Kind of awesome.
29
I find it really surprising that so many people here are accusing LVT of misogyny when he's written and created some of the most complex, interesting female characters on film. Bess in Breaking the Waves is an amazing look at both what is/isn't or should/shouldn't be allowed in a marriage, as well as an interesting examination of a devout woman's uncommon relationship with God. In Dogville, we see that the biggest victims of the problems caused by small-town hypocrisy are usually women.
Yes, his film are often violent and difficult to watch, but misogynistic they are not. Not when the entire point of them is to show that these things should NOT be happening to women. The fact that you are repulsed by them as a viewer means the films are doing their jobs.
Now Todd Solondz on the other hand (and Vincent Gallo, for that matter) doesn't seem to be saying much at all. Either that, or they're just worse filmmakers.
Yes, his film are often violent and difficult to watch, but misogynistic they are not. Not when the entire point of them is to show that these things should NOT be happening to women. The fact that you are repulsed by them as a viewer means the films are doing their jobs.
Now Todd Solondz on the other hand (and Vincent Gallo, for that matter) doesn't seem to be saying much at all. Either that, or they're just worse filmmakers.
30
@28 -Totally disagree. I'm not a huge fan of allegorical films (Lamorisse showed us more in 34 minutes than Jodorowsky can in a career.. wait, maybe that means i do like it?), but even giving it the benefit of the doubt, Salo belongs to more the realm of Cannibal Holocaust than that of LVT.
@29 - In addition to your defense of LVT's purported misogyny, he is credited with producing a few pieces of mainstream, aimed-at-woman porn films that were very well recieved. I'm not sure how that all adds up, but there it is.
@29 - In addition to your defense of LVT's purported misogyny, he is credited with producing a few pieces of mainstream, aimed-at-woman porn films that were very well recieved. I'm not sure how that all adds up, but there it is.
31
Hmm I was just going to post an "Amen" to Schmader, I didn't realize I was wandering into such a heated thread.
I loved "Breaking the Waves" I had a certain amount of appreciation if not love for "Dancer" and then, well Von Trier got old. Not just his, "watch how I torture women and blame oppressive society" content but his whole Dogme 95 Manifesto visual aesthetic as well. Trier is nothing but a charlatan provacateur, before he did his hollow shakycam torture porn he was doing visually lavish but equally hollow existential thrillers (Element of Crime, Europa).
Just ignore him, he'll go away.
I loved "Breaking the Waves" I had a certain amount of appreciation if not love for "Dancer" and then, well Von Trier got old. Not just his, "watch how I torture women and blame oppressive society" content but his whole Dogme 95 Manifesto visual aesthetic as well. Trier is nothing but a charlatan provacateur, before he did his hollow shakycam torture porn he was doing visually lavish but equally hollow existential thrillers (Element of Crime, Europa).
Just ignore him, he'll go away.
32
@30 And, I enjoyed Cannibal Holocaust much more than I did Dogville. But, Salo is more in the realm of Jodorowsky than CH or LVT. In CH, the violence is more pornography than style. In Salo, it is both. With Jodorowsky it is more style than porn. With LVT, it seems to be more about his psychological kicks than making a true point.
Personally, I think LVT hates everybody, including the audience. He's almost as bad as Gasper Noe seems to be.
Personally, I think LVT hates everybody, including the audience. He's almost as bad as Gasper Noe seems to be.
34
Saw I, Saw II, Saw III, Saw IV, Hosetl, Hostel II, Wrong Turn, Inside, High Tension - Some I have watched (not the sequels) and enjoyed for the uneasy feeling I get -But isn't that what Art is supposed to do. Cause discussion and reflection and the possibility and to inspire because of it...Do not judge to hastily. One person's garbage is another person's currency. I have not seen this film but remember the boycott on Priest.
35
I heard somebody did something in some film from some guy. Now I totally hate the guy that did it!
36
"Von" Trier's trajectory reminds me of Todd Solondz in many ways. [...]
What really pisses me off about Trier is that his shitty movies and his shitty worldview make people think Danes are miserable killjoys.
What the fuck do you care if he wants the "von" in his name? Do you scare-quote Bob "Dylan", too?
37
Anti-christ was the funniest "movie" I have ever seen! Funny because Lars Von Trier is the biggest joke of a Filmmaker since Barney. He couldn't make a good porno with a willing and able Jessica Alba. Which one of his relatives pulls the strings at Cannes? He should be put on a FBI watch list. He is a posterchild for dangerous sexual deviants. Ask any therapist. In fact his should probably be investigated. No it's not the bloody dicks and clits. Big fuckin' whup. I am not offended. It is your misunderstanding of cinema and the fact that people buy it as controversial, edgy, entertainment. What a fucking gas. Lars Von Trier thinks there is no hope for mankind. If there is any truth to that at all it is because of people like him and the fact that they can actually exist nowadays. In the days of survival of the fittest he wouldn't have made it to 12yo. With good parents.
You have no business in film or even interacting with others Von Trier. I want my time back! I am going to figure out some way to have you sued. Even at my own expense. for the good of humanity.
xo
Grant Gundlach
Columbus, OHIO
You have no business in film or even interacting with others Von Trier. I want my time back! I am going to figure out some way to have you sued. Even at my own expense. for the good of humanity.
xo
Grant Gundlach
Columbus, OHIO
Advertisement
Most Commented on Slog
-
SL Letter of the Day: Life Sentence by Dan Savage
-
SL Letter of the Day: Daddy Loves Who? by Dan Savage
-
Required Listening: Howard Stern on Ellen, JC Penney, Bullied Gay Kids, Rosie, Santorum, Bachmann, et al by Dan Savage
-
Crowdsourcing Uncut Police Video from the Dec. 12 Occupy Protest at the Port of Seattle by Eli Sanders
-
Slog Bible Study: Deuteronomy 21:10-14 by Goldy
-
The AP Is Reporting That Whitney Houston Is Dead by Paul Constant
-
State Legislator Testifies That His Opposition to Same-Sex Marriage Came to Him from a Commercial for Jack in the Box by Christopher Frizzelle
-
"Let me be the first one to say: My business will refuse to participate in a same-sex marriage ceremony," by Republican Representative Matt Shea of the Spokane Valley by Eli Sanders
-
The Onion Is on a Roll: "Iran Worried U.S. Might Be Building 8,500th Nuclear Weapon" by Charles Mudede
-
"I don't know if I want to be here [if gay marriage passes]," by Republican State Senator Jay Rodne of North Bend by Eli Sanders
RSS
Facebook
Twitter
Comments (37) RSS