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News & ArtsSunday, May 24, 2009
War The Sleeping Cell
Posted by Charles Mudede on Sun, May 24, 2009 at 12:34 PM
Bringing shame to the international profession of terrorism. TPM reports that the Newburgh Four (they were arrested for plotting to bomb two New York synagogues) were nothing more than a sad joke. Here is a description of the "most pathetic of a pathetic bunch":
Laguerre Payen, 27
- Payen was unemployed and took medication for schizophrenia. A law enforcement source said that on Wednesday night, Payen "was off his meds - needing to be particularly crazy to do the deed." He was hospitalized after the arrest.
- His lawyer said he is "intellectually challenged" and has "a very low borderline" IQ.
- A cousin said his mother is also mentally ill, and his father is dead. She said doesn't think Payen knows how to read.
- A recent visitor to his apartment said it contained bottles of urine, and raw chicken on the stovetop. Elsewhere it was described as a "filthy crack den."
- He had previously served 15 months for assault, after driving around the Orthodox-Jew-heavy town Monsey, firing a BB gun out of the window. He struck two teens, and also snatched two purses.
- He was supposed to be deported back to Haiti, but an immigration judge stayed the sentence, because he was judged insane.
It seems that the Newburgh Four and Naveed Afzal Haq were all cut from the same cloth.
2
Charles,
I read that too but I believe that hardly makes them less dangerous or culpable. If it wasn't for a cooperative informant (not always the case, BTW) the attack against the synagogue would have been quite tragic. Between those creeps and Seattle's James Ujaama who was state's witness at a terrorism trial in NY, we (the USA) still have internal threats posed. Yeah, none of these guys are the sharpest knives around but that doesn't mean we should be less vigilant.
I read that too but I believe that hardly makes them less dangerous or culpable. If it wasn't for a cooperative informant (not always the case, BTW) the attack against the synagogue would have been quite tragic. Between those creeps and Seattle's James Ujaama who was state's witness at a terrorism trial in NY, we (the USA) still have internal threats posed. Yeah, none of these guys are the sharpest knives around but that doesn't mean we should be less vigilant.
3
I read the article and think that there wouldn't have been an "attack" against the synagogue if not for the government informant leading the men where he wanted them to go.
I was hoping this shit was done with the end of the Bush administration.
I was hoping this shit was done with the end of the Bush administration.
5
@4 Yes -- but here he's not being deported because he's insane, he's being not deported because he's insane.
It's like the diff. between fire, and fire fly.
It's like the diff. between fire, and fire fly.
6
Well of COURSE they're mentally insane, no one would believe that they were Crazy Muslim Terrorists if they were sane and reasoned. What the average dumbass fails to realize is that such mentally unstable people are really not capable of large-scale attack planning, and are much better at disconnected street-corner ranting and raving.
7
PC, I don't know the details of this case, but it sounds like he was judged "NOT GUILTY" by reason of insanity for shooting a BB gun, and underwent psychiatric treatment afterwards. Do you think we should start deporting people who are not guilty of things because they're mentally ill? Should we deport people with Alzheimer's who wander out into the middle of the street? Should we deport people who injure someone during an epileptic seizure?
If you don't believe we should consider mitigating factors like mental illness, mental retardation, or age, when considering guilt, that's a different discussion.
If you don't believe we should consider mitigating factors like mental illness, mental retardation, or age, when considering guilt, that's a different discussion.
8
Sorry for being snippy PC, just the wording of the article annoyed me.
He was found not guilty (by reason of insanity) because he was untreated for an underlying psychiatric condition, probably. The wording of that sentence doesn't make it clear, and makes it sound like judges are harboring criminals, when instead they're trying to treat dangerous or unstable people to make people safer.
He was supposed to be deported back to Haiti, but an immigration judge stayed the sentence, because he was judged insane.
He was found not guilty (by reason of insanity) because he was untreated for an underlying psychiatric condition, probably. The wording of that sentence doesn't make it clear, and makes it sound like judges are harboring criminals, when instead they're trying to treat dangerous or unstable people to make people safer.
9
@2: The whole point is that maybe these guys ARE LESS DANGEROUS due to the fact that they're RETARDS. After billions, (actually trillions) of dollars thrown away on our War on Terror, this is the result? Four ex-cons fingered by a shitbird with a jail sentence hanging over his head?
10
In all the time we've been worrying about being attacked by "terrorists", how many workplace shootings and domestic dispute murder/suicides have occurred?
11
Lizzie, snippyness is not something I could fairly complain about.
I support insanity defense also reduced mental capacity etc. in criminal trials.
I read the unclear Laguerre facts as as saying (a) he was criminally guilty thus he didn't show insanity in the criminal trial; (b) then he was ordered deported we are not sure why, but probably because he had no valid green card/visa, or had one but then committed felony; then (c) that last order is to be suspended so he can try to prove he's insane. Since I believe he lost his chance to show insanity in the criminal trial, and should not have another chance, I am not in favor of this result. Also IMO insanity should not be a general reason to stop a deportation. So in my view he's being deported for reasons other than insanity.
There are lots of other issues like what about high tech workers going insane who can't work for MS anymore (insanity is reason to deport them), people here on green card because of family relations (insanity is not reason to deport), or how native land sucks and one will starve, be poor and not get treatment (IMO not a reason to not deport), etc.
But good god, obsessively commenting on Slog all day, discussing every conceivable permutation, assuredly that would signal an imminent breakdown --
Ciao--
I support insanity defense also reduced mental capacity etc. in criminal trials.
I read the unclear Laguerre facts as as saying (a) he was criminally guilty thus he didn't show insanity in the criminal trial; (b) then he was ordered deported we are not sure why, but probably because he had no valid green card/visa, or had one but then committed felony; then (c) that last order is to be suspended so he can try to prove he's insane. Since I believe he lost his chance to show insanity in the criminal trial, and should not have another chance, I am not in favor of this result. Also IMO insanity should not be a general reason to stop a deportation. So in my view he's being deported for reasons other than insanity.
There are lots of other issues like what about high tech workers going insane who can't work for MS anymore (insanity is reason to deport them), people here on green card because of family relations (insanity is not reason to deport), or how native land sucks and one will starve, be poor and not get treatment (IMO not a reason to not deport), etc.
But good god, obsessively commenting on Slog all day, discussing every conceivable permutation, assuredly that would signal an imminent breakdown --
Ciao--
12
@3 Yeah it was definately a set up. It is ALWAYS a set up when the perpetrators are black. Strangely enough no one ever makes this claim when the victims are black and perpetrators white
"He had previously served 15 months for assault, after driving around the..."
WTF? If he is that batshit crazy how'd he end up owning a car???
"He had previously served 15 months for assault, after driving around the..."
WTF? If he is that batshit crazy how'd he end up owning a car???
14
I think you'll find this is the case with most terrorists you pick up. For a few reasons, the biggest being
a)You're going to catch the dumb/crazy ones. Just like the rest of our prison population most are probably below average intelligence. The smart criminals are busy running our banks and aren't getting sent to jail.
b)Most of the people performing terrorist acts around the world are dumb/crazy or just have no other options in life. The smart/clever ones are generally going to be working a good job and making a living, often by moving here for an education and a job. Those that have other options with their life (with some exceptions no doubt) generally aren't willing to give it all up to blow themselves up or go to jail.
a)You're going to catch the dumb/crazy ones. Just like the rest of our prison population most are probably below average intelligence. The smart criminals are busy running our banks and aren't getting sent to jail.
b)Most of the people performing terrorist acts around the world are dumb/crazy or just have no other options in life. The smart/clever ones are generally going to be working a good job and making a living, often by moving here for an education and a job. Those that have other options with their life (with some exceptions no doubt) generally aren't willing to give it all up to blow themselves up or go to jail.
15
if a person breaks the law it should pay for his or her crime ,but keep in mind tnat if the person is mentally ill, and goes to prison or a state hospital for his crime after his conviction i founded it inhuman ,absolutely wrong that a person shut be deported for a crime he already paid.for, and especially if they are legal in this contry. its easy to give opinions when the person dosent mean anything to you but take a moment & think if that was you or family member.Every situation is different ,The cases for mental illness & Deportation should be based on human rights & ability to provide for oneself in our constitution .
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