Thursday, May 21, 2009
Sports The Sounders and Seeding
Posted by Eli Sanders on Thu, May 21, 2009 at 3:06 PM
Because maybe it's not the setting or the Age of Obama that's causing the general Sounders swoon.
Maybe soccer fan-dom has been shrewdly pre-programmed into the brains of Seattleites, Manchurian Candidate-style, by their parents! Commenter "Soccer is the new football" is a proponent of this theory:
Eli — it's because this generation of parents are chicken to let their kids play football. Kids get hurt, even killed, playing football. But every parent wants their kid to play sports, so soccer is the it-game right now. It gets played four seasons a year. Ever been to Whitman middle school on a Saturday in the fall? There are THOUSANDS of people there, parents & kids, dozens of soccer games all day long crammed onto the new fields. Do a little research on numbers of kids enrolled in youth soccer today versus 20 years ago, I bet you'll see a pretty telling trend.
I would add to this theory that for decades Seattle parents—and, really, Seattle citizens of all stripes—have voted for almost every single parks levy that's ever been put on the local ballot. The more parks a city has, the more soccer fields a city has. And the more soccer fields a city has, the bigger the pool of salary-earning adults who developed an emotional connection to the game at a young age.
The problem with this theory: it doesn't explain why all of these soccer-seeded minds weren't rabidly focused on our non-Major-League-Soccer Sounders before this year.
Still, I think the research assignment from "Soccer is the new football" is a good one. I would also like to know whether there is a direct correlation between the number of public soccer fields a city has and the number of fans who show up to cheer its MLS team. I remember watching the Sounders play the Chicago Fire, seeing practically no one in the stands, and wondering: how many public soccer fields per capita does Chicago have relative to Seattle? As soon as I have all the time in the world I'll get right on both of those assignments.
Next theory: the simplest of them all.
(Photo by Mike G.)
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1
Will you please just make one post about your "theories" and save us the fraction of a second it takes to scroll by them: all that they are worth.
kTHX.
kTHX.
5
Also, our non-MLS teams in the area are minor league teams. How many minor league teams in any sport have a big following? Plus, they had virtually no marketing budget, and no virtually no media presence.
6
i played soccer in a giant youth league in the 70s in the midwest. i am 45. i played here until i was 40.
it's not "this generation" at all. it's that 10s of 1000s of seattleites, men and women, love and have played this game their entire lives.
it's not "this generation" at all. it's that 10s of 1000s of seattleites, men and women, love and have played this game their entire lives.
7
The Chicago game comparison might not be apt, because the Bulls were in a playoff Game 7 at the very same time, and I'd suspect at least some of the fans were otherwise indisposed either at that game or watching it on TV.
Of course, that doesn't explain the three-quarters-empty stadium at Dallas last week, but again it's a field that's a good twenty miles out into the suburbs.
There's probably a continuum of sports interest that could be developed, something along the lines of Super Bowl > World Series, Game 7 > World Series > NCAA Championship > NBA Championship, Game 7 > etc... I suspect MLS probably falls somewhere between heated MLB rivalry and first-round NHL playoff game, and first-division soccer falls somewhere around College hockey game, but slightly above Curling.
Of course, that doesn't explain the three-quarters-empty stadium at Dallas last week, but again it's a field that's a good twenty miles out into the suburbs.
There's probably a continuum of sports interest that could be developed, something along the lines of Super Bowl > World Series, Game 7 > World Series > NCAA Championship > NBA Championship, Game 7 > etc... I suspect MLS probably falls somewhere between heated MLB rivalry and first-round NHL playoff game, and first-division soccer falls somewhere around College hockey game, but slightly above Curling.
8
Soccer doesn't have that edgy gonzo rock and roll vibe like Roller Derby as represented by the Rat City Rollergirls.
12
In general, soccer is a lot more accessible now than it was for previous generations. Not only did everyone I know grow up playing soccer to various degrees, but it's not as difficult to watch or access at a high level as it was before hundreds of TV channels and the Internet. If you want to follow the sport as an American, it's never been easier.
I don't know if an early grounding in soccer means you'll become a soccer fan later in life, though. But it does mean the rules are less confusing than they would be otherwise.
I don't know if an early grounding in soccer means you'll become a soccer fan later in life, though. But it does mean the rules are less confusing than they would be otherwise.
13
I thought all kids had to play soccer. It's good exercise, and isn't as narrow in scope of ability as playing football or baseball. I played on teams as a kid in the early 80's, but I can't say I developed any connection to watching professionals play the sport. Then again, I love playing sports, but loathe watching them.
15
Cricket:
Watched by gentlemen, played by gentlemen.
Rugby:
Watched by gentlemen, played by hooligans.
Football:
Watched by hooligans and played by hooligans.
(of course, in America, you could say: Football: watched by ugly lesbians, played by ugly lesbians).
Watched by gentlemen, played by gentlemen.
Rugby:
Watched by gentlemen, played by hooligans.
Football:
Watched by hooligans and played by hooligans.
(of course, in America, you could say: Football: watched by ugly lesbians, played by ugly lesbians).
14
Cricket:
Watched by gentlemen, played by gentlemen.
Rugby:
Watched by gentlemen, played by hooligans.
Football:
Watched by hooligans and played by hooligans.
(of course, in America, you could say: Football: watched by ugly lesbians, played by ugly lesbians).
Watched by gentlemen, played by gentlemen.
Rugby:
Watched by gentlemen, played by hooligans.
Football:
Watched by hooligans and played by hooligans.
(of course, in America, you could say: Football: watched by ugly lesbians, played by ugly lesbians).
16
I prefer the theory posted here a few weeks ago that attributed the Sounder's large following to the fact that Seattle isn't inhabited by a lot of over-educated liberals (Let's call us OEL for short). Being OEL means we were the smart nerds in school picked on by the dumb jocks; we rejected the jocks and everything they stood for, especially football and basketball. We embraced the alternative, which in sports is soccer. Plus we spent some time in Europe and/or Latin America, and being a "football supported" was just one of our many arrogant attributes.
Thus the low-turn out in red-blooded hick havens like Dallas and, um, Chicago. (Well, blue-voting as they are, I don't think you can say Chicago is populated by OEL; they're just as red-blooded as Texans).
This is changing as soccer becomes more of a suburban sport, as your original hypothesis states (I had a kid last year tell me her mom wouldn't let her head the ball cause it killed her braincells). Accordingly, more and more pro American soccer players are spoiled suburban brats like Landon Donovan and Berk Shae, whose parents could afford to send them to the best camps with old school, learned-it-in-the-slums stars like Maradona. (This phenomena has been recorded also in Brazil a la Kaka -a clean-shaved white kid- and I assume other countries as well.)
But I digress.
Thus the low-turn out in red-blooded hick havens like Dallas and, um, Chicago. (Well, blue-voting as they are, I don't think you can say Chicago is populated by OEL; they're just as red-blooded as Texans).
This is changing as soccer becomes more of a suburban sport, as your original hypothesis states (I had a kid last year tell me her mom wouldn't let her head the ball cause it killed her braincells). Accordingly, more and more pro American soccer players are spoiled suburban brats like Landon Donovan and Berk Shae, whose parents could afford to send them to the best camps with old school, learned-it-in-the-slums stars like Maradona. (This phenomena has been recorded also in Brazil a la Kaka -a clean-shaved white kid- and I assume other countries as well.)
But I digress.
17
#15 (and #14) - I'm not sure there's an American analog to those sayings. We've got a depressingly low spectator-to-participation ratio when it comes to sports. It probably explains why NASCAR is so popular.
18
I prefer baseball, but I'm weirdly fascinated watching these guys run around in their green shirts on a green field - it's like computer graphics in a movie gone somewhat wrong or something. They almost blend in, but not.
19
A sport that's fun to play isn't necessarily fun to watch. How many Seahawks fans do you think actually played organized football in middle school, high school, college? Yet they manage to sell out Qwest even when the team stinks (and I mean an actual sellout, not a Sounders "sellout").
20
As others have pointed out, this argument could have been made in 1979 just as easily as 2009. Remember the "soccer moms" who were supposedly so critical to Bill Clinton's victories? Soccer has been the dominant youth game, through junior high, for decades now. And, you know, the old NASL Sounders drew 50,000 for some of their games.
One thing that's different now is the much higher profile of real soccer, high-level foreign professional game, thanks largely to the internet. Even fifteen years ago following a top team like Manchester United or Barcelona or Milan was extremely difficult; if you were around then, you know the frustration of trying to find scores in the local paper, which rarely carried them at all, and even when they did, they were often reduced to a single line of agate type announcing "English Soccer: Liverpool 1 Crystal Palace". Thanks a lot!
Even the World Cup was hard to follow, with games broadcast sporadically, often on tape delay, often only on the Spanish channel on cable TV. Special events like the FA Cup Final were only available on expensive satellite hookups, by which I don't mean Dish Network but a trailer with a huge dish on it trucked to a pub and parked outside. I watched a few memorable finals in a Brit pub in Cupertino, CA full to bursting with shitfaced expatriates slopping baked beans on the floor and singing "You're gonna get your fucking head KICKED IN!!!" at 5:00 in the morning.
Now you can just watch it on ESPN or FSN, or stream it on your computer, along with the interminable interviews and talking head appearances that go with, just like American pro sports. So we know what it looks like. And now we have our own.
Seattle's particular success is also attributable to a concomitant downturn in our other teams, which have either sucked, or sucked and gone away, plus a brilliant marketing campaign led by a very charismatic fat guy from TV.
But I think the real thing is, there's been a market for top-level soccer here all along; there just wasn't anything to fill it.
More...
One thing that's different now is the much higher profile of real soccer, high-level foreign professional game, thanks largely to the internet. Even fifteen years ago following a top team like Manchester United or Barcelona or Milan was extremely difficult; if you were around then, you know the frustration of trying to find scores in the local paper, which rarely carried them at all, and even when they did, they were often reduced to a single line of agate type announcing "English Soccer: Liverpool 1 Crystal Palace". Thanks a lot!
Even the World Cup was hard to follow, with games broadcast sporadically, often on tape delay, often only on the Spanish channel on cable TV. Special events like the FA Cup Final were only available on expensive satellite hookups, by which I don't mean Dish Network but a trailer with a huge dish on it trucked to a pub and parked outside. I watched a few memorable finals in a Brit pub in Cupertino, CA full to bursting with shitfaced expatriates slopping baked beans on the floor and singing "You're gonna get your fucking head KICKED IN!!!" at 5:00 in the morning.
Now you can just watch it on ESPN or FSN, or stream it on your computer, along with the interminable interviews and talking head appearances that go with, just like American pro sports. So we know what it looks like. And now we have our own.
Seattle's particular success is also attributable to a concomitant downturn in our other teams, which have either sucked, or sucked and gone away, plus a brilliant marketing campaign led by a very charismatic fat guy from TV.
But I think the real thing is, there's been a market for top-level soccer here all along; there just wasn't anything to fill it.
22
In attempting to explain something, doesn't it help if said thing actually, you know, exists?
Is anyone outside of the six or seven people on Slog talking about the Sounders? If so, I've yet to overhear it anywhere in or around Seattle.
Is anyone outside of the six or seven people on Slog talking about the Sounders? If so, I've yet to overhear it anywhere in or around Seattle.
23
@22 - the Sounders blog on the PI and Times gets more hits than the other sports ones.
So, yeah, people care.
Now sell me your Sounders seasons tickets at half price so I can scalp em.
So, yeah, people care.
Now sell me your Sounders seasons tickets at half price so I can scalp em.
24
Nobody with an IQ over 70 reads the PI or Times sports blogs, Will -- you should be right at home there.
More to the point, the Sounders are outdrawing the Mariners (per game), as I predicted. And the Mariners have 30,000 empty seats unfilled, while the Sounders are capped by what the league will allow. They're opening up another section for the next game, which will push them to 30,000 or so. M's are averaging 26K, and that includes Opening Day and a recent Red Sox series, when the stands are about half-full of idiot Sox fans.
And seemingly every one of those 30,000 has recently spend a hundred dollars or so in the team store; there's a lot of green in those stands. Our household is in it for four shirts, a hoodie, a scarf, a badge, and two bumper stickers so far. Mrs. Fnarf wouldn't let me get the plastic horn or the foam finger, alas.
Those scarves are going to be a serious pain in the ass come July and August; soccer is supposed to be played in the freezing rain, spattered with mud and despair. But you take what you can get.
More to the point, the Sounders are outdrawing the Mariners (per game), as I predicted. And the Mariners have 30,000 empty seats unfilled, while the Sounders are capped by what the league will allow. They're opening up another section for the next game, which will push them to 30,000 or so. M's are averaging 26K, and that includes Opening Day and a recent Red Sox series, when the stands are about half-full of idiot Sox fans.
And seemingly every one of those 30,000 has recently spend a hundred dollars or so in the team store; there's a lot of green in those stands. Our household is in it for four shirts, a hoodie, a scarf, a badge, and two bumper stickers so far. Mrs. Fnarf wouldn't let me get the plastic horn or the foam finger, alas.
Those scarves are going to be a serious pain in the ass come July and August; soccer is supposed to be played in the freezing rain, spattered with mud and despair. But you take what you can get.
25
@23, 24, I was talking about never hearing any talk among actual people, you know, in the real world, about the new soccer team. I wasn't talking about whether the two of you (or one, if you're the same person posting under several names) are interested.
I coach soccer indoors and none of my kids' soccer teammates (or their parents) ever talk about the Sounders. The rec league keeps offering tickets via email, but no one ever responds or expresses interest whatsoever in going to a game. When I try to start a conversation about the team with other coaches, none of them has actually seen any games or has any idea when the Sounders play next or who they are playing against.
The Sounders may have outdrawn the Mariners per game, but the Mariners games have been televised at least once a day (they're usually repeated in an immediate replay on Fox Sports NW) for a month and a half now, and the Ms have played four times as many games at home already.
Maybe the Sounders might catch the imagination and attention of local sports fans, but (my (admittedly subjective) observation is that it's premature to declare that the area is "swooning" for the team.
I coach soccer indoors and none of my kids' soccer teammates (or their parents) ever talk about the Sounders. The rec league keeps offering tickets via email, but no one ever responds or expresses interest whatsoever in going to a game. When I try to start a conversation about the team with other coaches, none of them has actually seen any games or has any idea when the Sounders play next or who they are playing against.
The Sounders may have outdrawn the Mariners per game, but the Mariners games have been televised at least once a day (they're usually repeated in an immediate replay on Fox Sports NW) for a month and a half now, and the Ms have played four times as many games at home already.
Maybe the Sounders might catch the imagination and attention of local sports fans, but (my (admittedly subjective) observation is that it's premature to declare that the area is "swooning" for the team.
26
Is Eli really asking why 30,000 people didn't feel motivated to come out and watch a soccer-playing home team face the Rochester Rhinos?
27
@26: Yeah, because the USL didn't have any really good NW rivalries or anything. Oh well, now we can watch Royal Salt Lake!
28
@25, I'm curious why you don't think the fans in the stadium aaren't "real people", or how you've escaped noticing that the Sounders games are also televised. People are talking about them here, and in the newspapers, and on TV, and in homes and offices and sports bars around the area. I've seen them and heard them.
The fact that you live in a world of people who are totally and vacuously unaware of their surroundings is rather sad. Or maybe the other parents at your soccer matches have some other reason for not wanting to talk to you?
The fact that you live in a world of people who are totally and vacuously unaware of their surroundings is rather sad. Or maybe the other parents at your soccer matches have some other reason for not wanting to talk to you?
29
@25: yeah, I don't know who you're talking to. I have conversations about the Sounders every Monday when I come into work, and intermittently throughout the week. I see Sounders gear at the gym and on the street. Ever thought that the people you talk to are lame?
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