Slog
News & ArtsFriday, May 22, 2009
City / Homo Dicks In Bars: A Growing Public Menace
Posted by Dan Savage on Fri, May 22, 2009 at 2:07 PM
[Posted yesterday; reposted now for the hell of it.]
When I heard that the Washington State Liquor Control Board—which long ago outlived its uselessness—was doing all it could to shut down the Eagle, a dark & dirty gay bar that's been on Capitol Hill for 25+ years, I was annoyed. Why was the LCB—in cahoots with the SPD—trying to shut down what would, in any other city, be a tolerated/beloved dark & dirty institution? It might not be a place that the mayor would take visiting dignitaries, but it wouldn't be a place that the city and state would spend tens of thousands of your tax dollars trying to shut down. Then I saw exhibit A in the LCB's case against the Eagle:
An LCB agent took this picture at the Eagle. If you look closely you'll notice that the dick of the fourth man from the left is clearly visible. Actually it probably wasn't clearly visible—the Eagle is a dark bar—until the LCB agent took a flash photograph of it. But it's clearly visible in this flash photograph. Well, actually, it's not clearly visible in the flash photograph. You can barely see the thing. (The dick is so hard to see that I don't even need to hide this photo behind the jump.) But to make sure we can all see the dick the LCB report includes the original shot plus a bonus blow-up shot of the dick at the Eagle. You can see the LCB's big dick pic—NSFW—by clicking here.
Disgusting, right? But in all honestly my first reaction was typical knee-jerk Seattle liberal stuff. "Thanks to the hard work of the LCB," I grumbled to one of my coworkers, "more people will have seen this dude's dick—in the LCB's report, on our website when I post it—than would've seen it if that dude had spent the whole summer waggling it over the balcony at the Eagle. Our tax dollars at work!"
But a journalist is trained to look at issues impartially. (At least that's what trained journalists are always telling me.) So I decided to take a step back and consider the full implications of dicks in bars like the Eagle. Yes, one could argue that trying to shut down the Eagle—and throw bartenders and barbacks out of work—is a huge waste of public money and manpower. One could point out that the same state that paid an LCB agent to sniff out cock at the Eagle just kicked 40,000 people off the state health insurance rolls to close a budget gap. One might be tempted to mention that the same state disseminating cock shots via public records is slashing funding for higher education. And one might be so petty as to point out the brazen disregard for state law displayed by an agent of the state here: the man on the balcony at the Eagle is wearing a Utilikilt and "up-skirt photography" is illegal in Washington state.
But what about people who don't want to see dick at the Eagle? Imagine an innocent patron with no interest in dick innocently enjoying his beer at the Eagle. If he had looked up at just the wrong moment—say the moment the LCB agent's camera's flash went off—that innocent Eagle patron would've been exposed to dick whether he liked dick or not.
I can hear you snickering. But it's just not fair to assume that every man who goes to the Eagle likes dick. Don't stereotype gay men like that. Not all of us like dick. Some of us like opera. And, yes, the Eagle is a dark & dirty gay bar and everyone who enters it—and you have to be at least 21 to enter the Eagle—knows what the place is like. But if even one Eagle patron was exposed to dick against his will, well, we can all agree that that would be one Eagle patron exposed to dick too many.
After I came around to the Liquor Control Board's POV on this—dicks in bars are menace and preventing dicks in bars is a wise use of public funds—I began to wonder if dicks were a problem at other bars in the area. To find out I went on a bar crawl yesterday during happy hour and what do you know? I saw dick pretty much everywhere I went. And I took pictures. Now I want our website to be SFW—unlike the NSFW reports the LCB cranks out—so I've covered up the dicks in these shocking photos with the faces of the unsung heroes working hard to protect us all from dicks in bars. Lorraine Lee, Roger Hoen, Ruthann Kurose are the three sitting members of the Washington State Liquor Control Board. You can read more about their thrilling exploits here and you can email them here to thank them for protecting you from the sight of dicks in bars and on blogs. (But the NSFW versions of these photos can be found after the jump for any dick fans out there.) Here we go...
Dick at O'Asian, a bar across the street from City Hall popular with city hall staffers:
Dick at Collins Pub, a bar frequented by deputy mayor Tim Ceis:
Dick at the Spitfire Grill, site of Christine Gregoire's election-night party:
I have to say that I was shocked—shocked—by all the dick I found running around town yesterday. (And I was shocked when I got back to work and downloaded the photos and realized that all the dick I saw seemed belong to the same dude. I think this dude might be stalking me.) But what shocked me most was the fact that not once, not in any of these bars, did the staff seem to notice or care that an innocent patron—me!—was being exposed to so much dick. Not even at Spitfire, where the dick was exposed by the windows. Innocent passersby could see it! I thought about going to the LCB's website and filng a complaint when I realized that I was right across the street for city hall. So I rushed to council chambers to speak with my elected representatives about all these dicks everywhere and—no way!
Dicks in city hall? Right outside council chambers? Is nowhere safe from this growing menace? And what about the children?
Before I went out yesterday and investigated the dicks overrunning our city I might've argued that bars—gay and otherwise—are open to the general public and a bar's owner and staff can't realistically be expected to police the behavior of all of their patrons at every single moment. Now I know better. The sheer amount of dick in our bars is shocking and I am now convinced that the LCB and the SPD must act to protect us all. But they can't fight this fight alone. That's why I'm deputizing you, Slog readers, to help me and the Liquor Control Board and the Seattle Police Department beat back these dicks off before its too late. LCB agents and SPD officers can't be everywhere. So if you see a dick in a bar do something: Take a picture of that dick and email it to me. I will share your dick pics with the brave men and women of the LCB.
Of course if we find dicks in every bar in the city that will put the LCB in a difficult position indeed. If there are dicks everywhere and not just in a dark & dirty gay bar on Capitol Hill—dicks at the lobby bar at the downtown Sheraton, dicks at Fox Sports Grill, dicks at the Wildrose—then the LCB will be faced with the prospect of shutting down every bar, restaurant, and tavern in the city. And I can't imagine that they'll do that. But it's a risk we'll have to run because we can't have dicks in bars. So go out, watch for dick, and if you see dick—or if your dick slips out of your trousers—take a picture and email it to me.
Together we can make Seattle's gay bars safe for women and children.
O'Asian:
Collins Pub:
Spitfire Grill:
City Hall:
4
Seattle's government leadership (closing of bars, strip clubs, "massage" parlors) makes it an uptight prude city.
Raising a 7-incher in your honor Dan.
Raising a 7-incher in your honor Dan.
5
Oregon just cut the crap and makes it illegal to approach another person with your genitals or approach the genitals of another in any circumstance, makes erections or "obvious arousal" illegal and lets it at that.
An establishment that is 21+ should make no special concessions beyond preventing actual physical encroachment.
Beyond that, this post is fucking amazing.
An establishment that is 21+ should make no special concessions beyond preventing actual physical encroachment.
Beyond that, this post is fucking amazing.
11
Thank you for the public service (or should I say pubic service?) you are providing to all of us who love the dick.
12
It's been a good day on Slog...a good day indeed. Very ballsy Dan...or would it be dicky? In fact, what would happen if balls started showing up around town too? Maybe you could do a report on free-balling around Seattle?
13
This is all very amusing, but I can't help being more than a little outraged. Good reporting, Dan. Clean it up, and I'm sure you could arouse the attention of the mainstream media.
I'll never pay enough taxes to pay for that flash moment, and it boils my blood. What can we do?
I'll never pay enough taxes to pay for that flash moment, and it boils my blood. What can we do?
16
This is so absurd, as a native Seattleite I can't believe it and I'm embarassed. The Eagle is a weaker victim that is being singled out as easy prey by a homophobic element in the state government. It's nothing more than a witch hunt. I think we as a gay community need to put a stop to it NOW! Maybe we need a stonewall all over again. It's a gay bar and whatever individuals do is not necessarily the responsibility of the bar. It's a man's gay bar, and if your not gay and you don't like what goes on in there don't go in. This angers me so much I'm going to be calling my Councilmen and Mayor. It's ridiculous.
Dan Engstrom
Fremont
Dan Engstrom
Fremont
17
It's most likely DJ's other dad, your boyfriend. I hate to throw this in your face, but it's very...uh...how do you say this.......it's a bad move as a parent to behave this way and reinforce it as a spouse.
Ugh
Ugh
18
I know my boyfriend's dick. I've served my boyfriend's dick. My boyfriend's dick is a friend of mine. That's not my boyfriend's dick.
21
No worries, StillNon. But... seriously... if you knew my boyfriend... there are things he won't do. This would top the list.
22
We'll never know who the brave soul is who exposed his piece for this piece.
Who ever it belongs to, its nice, attached to something even nicer, and probably gets appreciated up close and personally frequently.
Who ever it belongs to, its nice, attached to something even nicer, and probably gets appreciated up close and personally frequently.
23
Ahhh, happy memories from my Eagle days. I always bought the best weed there from a Jewish lesbian there who goes by Heidi sometimes, Jesbian other times. She's so manly she completely fits in there.
24
Oh My, is that some poor intern? Back in my day, the most degrading thing an intern had to do was process microfiche (ask your parents about that one, dear)
25
With budgets getting cut, why do we still have an LCB? What would it take to get an initiative on the ballot to get rid of the LCB?
28
Oh, Don. The point of that piece wasn't the gun. It was the drugs. The mayor wanted bars owners to report any and all drug activity even though doing so would, under the mayor's proposed rules, result in a bar's closure. Bartenders, doormen -- they had to watch for drugs, report it. I told the mayor's staff, once in was in, that I had drugs on me. I offered them drugs. They didn't report it, ask me to leave... they didn't do anything.
The gun was a side issue.
The gun was a side issue.
30
Dan @ 16, it's not just an insult to gay men. It's an insult to all rational adults in this state, whether we frequent adult oriented establishments or not: The idea that we somehow need to be sheltered from vice in the places that we choose to visit.
We love to talk about how we are a "world class" city, yet we let a paternalistic, anachronistic bureaucracy like the WSLCB exist out of fear that people might think we are advocating alcoholism if we suggest that it is an organization that was never needed to begin with, and is even more unneeded now.
But beyond that, if we were to abolish the liquor board tomorrow, we would still be burdened with a puritanical mindset that allows the Seattle Police Department to shirk their real responsibility - public safety - in favor of harrassing bars, stripclubs, and other "dens of iniquity". No one's forcing anyone to go to the Eagle, and no one's forcing them to stay - so why is the SPD even there in the first place?
And it's not just conservatives who are guilty of this - many liberals get preachy and screechy when the idea is floated that we don't need such strict regulation of bar and strip clubs. The children are trotted out, as they always are, as examples of why we need to restrain ourselves: If we were to relax zoning on strip clubs, for instance, or let them serve booze, there'd suddenly be a pole installed in the lobby of the Olympic Hotel, and you'd see the Seattle Girls School offering classes in lap dancing.
Abolition of the WSLCB and reform of the morality laws are exactly the sort of thing the initiative process is designed for - but we will never see a movement like that, because there is not the corporate interests to bankroll that sort of initiative. We'll just continue to pretend that we need this sort of "protection", and that liquor control is a desirable function of government in the 2qst century.
God, that took everything out of me. Where's that bottle of Frangelico.....
More...
We love to talk about how we are a "world class" city, yet we let a paternalistic, anachronistic bureaucracy like the WSLCB exist out of fear that people might think we are advocating alcoholism if we suggest that it is an organization that was never needed to begin with, and is even more unneeded now.
But beyond that, if we were to abolish the liquor board tomorrow, we would still be burdened with a puritanical mindset that allows the Seattle Police Department to shirk their real responsibility - public safety - in favor of harrassing bars, stripclubs, and other "dens of iniquity". No one's forcing anyone to go to the Eagle, and no one's forcing them to stay - so why is the SPD even there in the first place?
And it's not just conservatives who are guilty of this - many liberals get preachy and screechy when the idea is floated that we don't need such strict regulation of bar and strip clubs. The children are trotted out, as they always are, as examples of why we need to restrain ourselves: If we were to relax zoning on strip clubs, for instance, or let them serve booze, there'd suddenly be a pole installed in the lobby of the Olympic Hotel, and you'd see the Seattle Girls School offering classes in lap dancing.
Abolition of the WSLCB and reform of the morality laws are exactly the sort of thing the initiative process is designed for - but we will never see a movement like that, because there is not the corporate interests to bankroll that sort of initiative. We'll just continue to pretend that we need this sort of "protection", and that liquor control is a desirable function of government in the 2qst century.
God, that took everything out of me. Where's that bottle of Frangelico.....
31
Thanks Dan,
If your point was to make clear how the degenerate neo-urban gay man stereotype is, then you did a great job.
Has it ever fucking occurred to your diseased and egomaniacal mind, that waving your dick in public is, in point of fact, illegal and certainly not something that normal decent people who go out for a few drinks with friends want to see? To me, whether it happens in a nightclub, church, or the city park, it is a form of sexual assault by a social misfit, one that deserves to bring down the rule of law.
The fact that you find it funny, and see fit to show your pathetic ding-a-ling as some sort of protest, demonstrates your disgusting opportunism.
It also makes clear just what a poor example of the gay community you are. You do a great job making us look bad. The religious right has nothing on you when it comes to keeping us down in the ghetto.
If your point was to make clear how the degenerate neo-urban gay man stereotype is, then you did a great job.
Has it ever fucking occurred to your diseased and egomaniacal mind, that waving your dick in public is, in point of fact, illegal and certainly not something that normal decent people who go out for a few drinks with friends want to see? To me, whether it happens in a nightclub, church, or the city park, it is a form of sexual assault by a social misfit, one that deserves to bring down the rule of law.
The fact that you find it funny, and see fit to show your pathetic ding-a-ling as some sort of protest, demonstrates your disgusting opportunism.
It also makes clear just what a poor example of the gay community you are. You do a great job making us look bad. The religious right has nothing on you when it comes to keeping us down in the ghetto.
33
Oh, ecce! I love you and I've missed you! Welcome back!
Not my dick though. But you can fantasize all you like.
xo
Dan
Not my dick though. But you can fantasize all you like.
xo
Dan
34
"...dick dick dick dick dick dick dick dick dick." "How many dicks was that?" "A lot."--Quentin Tarrantino, Reservoir Dicks (1992)
36
You have completely lost your mind, or you have been ingesting a lot of some legal or illegal substance.
I can't decide if that is a good thing or not.
As far as I am concerned, if some guy wants to let it all hang out in a gay bar, who cares? I'd honestly have an issue in mixed company, though. I'm not a prude (I looked at the pictures after the cut), but I don't necessarily want to see that if I'm out having a drink with friend after work.
But yeah, the LCB should either have something better to do or should be cut back if there are budget problems. And that applies to all states. Unfortunately, in my state, there are only two areas where the legislature can make cuts to balance the budget: health care and education (which includes the arts and museums). You gotta love Louisiana.
I can't decide if that is a good thing or not.
As far as I am concerned, if some guy wants to let it all hang out in a gay bar, who cares? I'd honestly have an issue in mixed company, though. I'm not a prude (I looked at the pictures after the cut), but I don't necessarily want to see that if I'm out having a drink with friend after work.
But yeah, the LCB should either have something better to do or should be cut back if there are budget problems. And that applies to all states. Unfortunately, in my state, there are only two areas where the legislature can make cuts to balance the budget: health care and education (which includes the arts and museums). You gotta love Louisiana.
38
I have to agree.... one of the best posts here yet.
but i had always imagined Dan a bit more hung.....
but i had always imagined Dan a bit more hung.....
39
I don't have a dick attached to my body. The one I usually enjoy belongs to someone who probably wouldn't go along with the idea. Would other NSFW pictures help your cause?
40
Catalina - I have fond memories of being but wee and my mom setting me down in front of the big, bright, and loud microfiche reader.
41
Catalina - I have fond memories of being but wee and my mom setting me down in front of the big, bright, and loud microfiche reader.
42
As a straight woman I've seen a whole lot of straight guys whip it out in mainstream bars. and the other day in a coffee shop...lucky me?? If every establishment in which dick was exposed were shut down, no one would have anything to do on a friday night or basically ever. The absurdity of the LCB is completely overwhelming.
I wonder if I wear a low cut shirt and expose my breasts by accident (or on purpose) I'm going to get some bar shut down. Somehow I doubt it.
and off the subject, Dan, I freaking love you.
I wonder if I wear a low cut shirt and expose my breasts by accident (or on purpose) I'm going to get some bar shut down. Somehow I doubt it.
and off the subject, Dan, I freaking love you.
43
How do we get their budget cut? Seriously. Here's a HUGE waste of tax payer dollars which is bad for the economy. That money should go to things that actually make things better - like schools.
44
As a former Eagle DJ i must say that the Eagle's reputation is based more on the great fucking music there than the dicks. At least that used to be true. Have been out of town for a number of years now, but i believe that tradition is being upheld.
Or, maybe it's always depended on who you ask. Some people are cock-obsessed and that's all that matters to them. To me, though, the music playing makes all the difference, and it was the only gay bar i could stand to be in for any length of time. (Re-Bar doesn't count, does it?).
Um, does the Cuff still suck dick?
Or, maybe it's always depended on who you ask. Some people are cock-obsessed and that's all that matters to them. To me, though, the music playing makes all the difference, and it was the only gay bar i could stand to be in for any length of time. (Re-Bar doesn't count, does it?).
Um, does the Cuff still suck dick?
45
I should add that I do believe there's more than a little old-fashioned homophobia inside the SPD and WSLCB. This isn't the first trouble the Eagle has had about this sort of thing. In the minds of all those uptight twits, The Eagle has represented the lowest of the low, being a real den of depravity. It's even seen that way by a large part of the gay community.
I'm certain you understand this point, Dan, that's this is all about people's uptight attitudes about sex, (and by association drugs and rock music). The Eagle has long been an easy target. So, what I'm wondering is: is there anything really different or unusual about the current cirmstances?
And i must say, brilliant idea to use dicks everywhere in defense of The Eagle. It would warm the cockels of my heart if all pubs and bars, both ritzy and dive, straight and gay, rally to support this cause. Death to the prudish, homophobic WSLCB!
I'm certain you understand this point, Dan, that's this is all about people's uptight attitudes about sex, (and by association drugs and rock music). The Eagle has long been an easy target. So, what I'm wondering is: is there anything really different or unusual about the current cirmstances?
And i must say, brilliant idea to use dicks everywhere in defense of The Eagle. It would warm the cockels of my heart if all pubs and bars, both ritzy and dive, straight and gay, rally to support this cause. Death to the prudish, homophobic WSLCB!
47
got to say love the article , liked the dick a lot... hope this dick is not orphan... made up my day, already 12.37 here in Athens and day dreaming about it.
48
edits>
#44,¶3: Um, does the Cuff music still suck ass?
#45,¶2: ...circumstances. Maybe what's changed is your ability to be aware of what the WSLCB is doing. Which raises the question: how did you discover this news (and how can we get updates on their "progress"?)
¶3: ...straight and gay, rise to the occasion to support this cause.
#44,¶3: Um, does the Cuff music still suck ass?
#45,¶2: ...circumstances. Maybe what's changed is your ability to be aware of what the WSLCB is doing. Which raises the question: how did you discover this news (and how can we get updates on their "progress"?)
¶3: ...straight and gay, rise to the occasion to support this cause.
52
You need to do a video, but with narration in the style of the 60's Batman series, "What's this!?! Dicks in city hall? Right outside council chambers? Is nowhere safe from this growing menace?"
http://it.truveo.com/Batman-60s-Tv-Serie…
Also this video seems fitting too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGRPFUYUU…
http://it.truveo.com/Batman-60s-Tv-Serie…
Also this video seems fitting too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGRPFUYUU…
53
Great piece! ...the Eagle is a sweet bar and the WA LCB hates America. Not only America; the WA LCB hates alcohol.
55
Okay- Not to be a smartass- but from the way that Dan described the Eagle, is it really a place that folks go for a drink with friends from work?! I mean friends from work who you don't want to share a dick sighting with? Really? I wouldn't want my niece or nephew to see a bunch of dick flailing about everyplace (say Disneyland) but I'm likely not to take them to the Eagle. However, if I lived in the area, I would like a good place to go see some dick occasionally if I so choose, and it sounds like that's the purpose of this bar. We aren't children and the government shouldn't hold our hand. Maybe the best solution is for people to get a clue about where they take their work friends for a drink.
56
Dan, I have really mixed feeling about this post. I have no doubt whatsoever that the Eagle is being unfairly targeted, and that the police have much better things to do with their time. HOWEVER, for the past few years, the Eagle has gone WAY over the line in terms of public sex and drug use. Up until a few months ago, it was not uncommon to see dozens of men next to the DJ booth fucking and sucking as if they were in the back room of an Amsterdam bar. Going outside to the patio meant there were at least a dozen men getting high (and lots more smoking cigarettes, which is also illegal). NO ONE ever cared about any of this -- it was just part of being at the Eagle.
What I found so shocking is that after the police came SEVERAL times to stop the sex and drugs, it was still going on. This is far more than someone having a dick out. It is about the fact that up until the last few weeks, the bartenders and bouncer would walk the bar and not do a thing about the behavior they were warned about. (In fact, it was only a month or so ago I complained that people were getting high on the patio and the bouncer looked at me like I was crazy and did NOTHING.)
I am not an Eagle hater. The Eagle is the bar I usually hang out in. I would never dream of going to the Cuff, which seems little more than a location for bachelorette parties at this point. But the owner and staff of the Eagle have never cared about what goes on in their bar and STILL refuse to monitor the sex and drugs.
What I found so shocking is that after the police came SEVERAL times to stop the sex and drugs, it was still going on. This is far more than someone having a dick out. It is about the fact that up until the last few weeks, the bartenders and bouncer would walk the bar and not do a thing about the behavior they were warned about. (In fact, it was only a month or so ago I complained that people were getting high on the patio and the bouncer looked at me like I was crazy and did NOTHING.)
I am not an Eagle hater. The Eagle is the bar I usually hang out in. I would never dream of going to the Cuff, which seems little more than a location for bachelorette parties at this point. But the owner and staff of the Eagle have never cared about what goes on in their bar and STILL refuse to monitor the sex and drugs.
58
56, It sounds like you want to make the Eagle into a location for bachelorette parties. I don't do drugs, nor do I have sex in bars, but it doesn't offend me that others do. If I go to one of the many Eagles around the country, I don't expect it to be a family environment.
60
59, or better yet those anatomically correct G.I. Joe-esque dolls. The name of those figures escapes me right now.
61
Calm down everybody it's not Dan's dick. It's mine. And Dan, your right. I am stalking you. Think Fatal Attraction!!!
62
@56
What's your Problem!?
Can't a bunch of moral upstanding family men let off a little steam without the nanny state bitching it's head off?
What's your Problem!?
Can't a bunch of moral upstanding family men let off a little steam without the nanny state bitching it's head off?
64
@56 Honestly, all those things you're complaining about I would love to have legalized.
Who cares if someone wants to have some fun on a Friday night. Some like to drink, some get high, some smoke some pole. Who are these things hurting?
Who cares if someone wants to have some fun on a Friday night. Some like to drink, some get high, some smoke some pole. Who are these things hurting?
65
@56 Why would you (claim to) hang out at the Eagle if you're so offended by what (used to, before the WSLB started cracking down A YEAR AGO) go on at the Eagle? Are you really that freaked out by weed and ciggies? Really?? Go back to your convent and leave the rest of us to patronize the bars we see fit. If the dick is such a problem for people, then they won't patronize the bar. That's called capitalism- something that conservatives seem to love in idea, but loath in practice.
66
WTF is the LCB's problem?
After we lose the Prop 8 battle, the LCB is on the list for potential riot spots.
NO MORE MR NICE GAY.
After we lose the Prop 8 battle, the LCB is on the list for potential riot spots.
NO MORE MR NICE GAY.
68
This post is awesome. I once saw dick at the Canterbury but I wasn't as quick-thinking as the WLCB guy and let it swing on by, flaccid and unphotographed.
69
Just when I thought Savage was a washed-up hack, he comes up with this stunt / call to action. Fantastic!
70
As usual, Savage steers the story towards himself and/or his crotch. And with typical rambling logic - that openly displaying dicks in a public bar is comparable to quickly, furtively unfurling in a vacant city hall corridor. Oh, bravo! OK, It confirms the stereotypical gay man image held by homohaters. But, by God, Dan, who so often runs photos of his big head, finally got pics of his little one published. Of course, that's the singular purpose of this piece - even if it inadvertently reveals which head he thinks with.
71
Fucking wonderful post, great idea. I must be parochial beyond words, 'cos it makes me super happy when you put serious verve into your local stuff. I still wish you'd be mayor.
Wuuuunderful.
Wuuuunderful.
72
THIS JUST IN: PEOPLE HAVE SEX AND DO DRUGS IN PUBLIC PLACES - FILM @ 11...
Seriously @56, if you shut down every public place where anyone has ever done drugs or had sex, nobody would ever be allowed to go outside again.
And there's an even more insidious issue that Dan sort of skims over here, but which is more salient, IMO: the guy "going commando" in the UK was not intentionally exposing himself, he just happens to be not wearing underwear (which, so far as I'm aware at least, is not currently illegal in this state), while at the same time wearing an unbifurcated garment (also not illegal).
My question for the LCB would be: if the person in the photo was indeed guilty of "indecent exposure" or some similar offense, why was he not arrested on-the-spot? And conversely, if he WASN'T guilty of any sort of infraction, how could the establishment be held liable for what is in essence a case of incidental exposure?
And although I'm not sure the "up-skirt law" was originally intended to apply to men equally as to women, in this case it seems a least probable the LCB officer may in fact be guilty of some sort of violation for having taken such a photograph; or I'm at least guessing a court would have a reasonable expectation of making such a judgment, if it ever came to trial.
Seriously @56, if you shut down every public place where anyone has ever done drugs or had sex, nobody would ever be allowed to go outside again.
And there's an even more insidious issue that Dan sort of skims over here, but which is more salient, IMO: the guy "going commando" in the UK was not intentionally exposing himself, he just happens to be not wearing underwear (which, so far as I'm aware at least, is not currently illegal in this state), while at the same time wearing an unbifurcated garment (also not illegal).
My question for the LCB would be: if the person in the photo was indeed guilty of "indecent exposure" or some similar offense, why was he not arrested on-the-spot? And conversely, if he WASN'T guilty of any sort of infraction, how could the establishment be held liable for what is in essence a case of incidental exposure?
And although I'm not sure the "up-skirt law" was originally intended to apply to men equally as to women, in this case it seems a least probable the LCB officer may in fact be guilty of some sort of violation for having taken such a photograph; or I'm at least guessing a court would have a reasonable expectation of making such a judgment, if it ever came to trial.
74
Wagging the weenie in a gay bar is just part of the territory but it DOES come off as a desperate move by the wagger. It's like, "OK I get it, you're horny." The rest of us prefer to cruise a little more subtly.
75
Goddamn it... Look other straight people if you have wonderful gay friends who are kind enough to invite you to join them for an evening out, please remember you are going somewhere where you will be a fucking guest. They are not taking you to Cheers, it will not be like Pioneer Square. Your job as the token breeder is to sit at the table, speak when spoken to, and politly take in the experience that your friends are being awesome enough to let you in on. It's not your bar, its their bar and just like they wince and laugh kinda nervously everytime they join you in Pioneer Square and some bitch is flapping her tits in everyones face; it's your job to return the favor and tolerate some dick when you are out with them. Either expect to have to deal with some cock or don't fucking go to gay bars, its really that simple.
(sorry, please try not to trip over my soapbox...)
(sorry, please try not to trip over my soapbox...)
76
Sooo... I sent in a Last Days hot tip last week because I saw a woman jacking off the guy next to her on a PACKED BUS at 1 pm on a Friday AFTERNOON. When I go to places like the Eagle, or the Cuff, CCs...shit even QFC after midnight on a Saturday night, (which I admittedly don't frequent that often), I know that I may encounter a wiener or two. I accept that fact when I pay the cover charge.
Now, when I pay my bus fee, I am never going to be OK seeing wieners in that environment. EVER.
So, since the city is so hung up on getting wieners out of gay bars, what are they doing to make our city buses wiener-free?
Tania
Great article Dan... if the P-I had been more like this, maybe they wouldn't have gone under.
BTW... Even as a lesbo, I have to say I'm impressed with the wiener in your article... and I apologize for using wiener so many times in this post.
Now, when I pay my bus fee, I am never going to be OK seeing wieners in that environment. EVER.
So, since the city is so hung up on getting wieners out of gay bars, what are they doing to make our city buses wiener-free?
Tania
Great article Dan... if the P-I had been more like this, maybe they wouldn't have gone under.
BTW... Even as a lesbo, I have to say I'm impressed with the wiener in your article... and I apologize for using wiener so many times in this post.
78
The Seattle Eagle is SO tame compared to most. I once went to an ass-eating contest at the Portland Eagle. I guess Portland's equivalent of the LCB just doesn't care about protecting the innocent!
81
no, i don't think that's the infamous Savage Schlong...Dan doesn't seem like the large jewelry type...unless he's trying to misdirect us!
83
@56 - i call bullshit on your post dude, the bartenders at the eagle have done a lot to comply with the liquor board. and they have been policing the patio for smokers for MONTHS and like any bar, get pissed off it people out there try to smoke or get high behind their backs. ...and "dozens of guys"? WTF? That back part of the catwalk maybe holds 12 people to begin with.
They already can't show nudity or porn on the screens and in fact had to cover up a nude male calendar they had hanging behind the damn coat check. It's excessive hateful behavior by people that are complaining to the liquor board... probably from pissed off former customers who have been told to go outside to smoke. Unfortunately the liquor board feels like they have to investigate every complaint, it's the laws that are homophobic, prudish, and aimed at "protecting" grown adults from grown adult things.
I have to give kudos to Savage, I have been trying to follow this story for awhile and am happy to see some guerilla activism being encouraged. Fuck this shit, let's take our goddamn bars back.
They already can't show nudity or porn on the screens and in fact had to cover up a nude male calendar they had hanging behind the damn coat check. It's excessive hateful behavior by people that are complaining to the liquor board... probably from pissed off former customers who have been told to go outside to smoke. Unfortunately the liquor board feels like they have to investigate every complaint, it's the laws that are homophobic, prudish, and aimed at "protecting" grown adults from grown adult things.
I have to give kudos to Savage, I have been trying to follow this story for awhile and am happy to see some guerilla activism being encouraged. Fuck this shit, let's take our goddamn bars back.
84
@56 - bullshit is right!
"a month or so ago I complained that people were getting high on the patio and the bouncer looked at me like I was crazy and did NOTHING"
get a fucking clue!! the staff can only do so much policing. most well adjusted adults have a difficult time telling other people how to behave, unless they're being unruly and obnoxious.
So, Kirby, what exactly IS it about The Eagle that draws you there? Hmmm?
@83 - you're absolutely right about where some of the complaints to LCB and SPD come from, from sissy bitches Kirby (#56)
"a month or so ago I complained that people were getting high on the patio and the bouncer looked at me like I was crazy and did NOTHING"
get a fucking clue!! the staff can only do so much policing. most well adjusted adults have a difficult time telling other people how to behave, unless they're being unruly and obnoxious.
So, Kirby, what exactly IS it about The Eagle that draws you there? Hmmm?
@83 - you're absolutely right about where some of the complaints to LCB and SPD come from, from sissy bitches Kirby (#56)
87
As a straight woman, I don't mind dicks in bars. I expect men to bring their dick into every bar they go into.
88
Firstly, great post. Secondly, nice dick, whose-ever it is! But, more importantly, this post gave me a good idea.
Here in Dayona Beach, Florida, a woman's right to expose her breasts in public in defiance of indecency laws has been affirmed legally. There have been protests where large numbers of woman expose themselves publically, and a court held that such "indecent" exposure is legal if, and only if, it is done in order to... protest indecent exposure laws.
So I'm thinking maybe 150, 200 guys in Washington standing on an overpass with their dicks out might be a nice legal test for the Northwest. Sure, you'll get arrested the first time, but think of the progress you'd be making for Penis Rights. It'd be a great photograph, anyway, for the paper.
Here in Dayona Beach, Florida, a woman's right to expose her breasts in public in defiance of indecency laws has been affirmed legally. There have been protests where large numbers of woman expose themselves publically, and a court held that such "indecent" exposure is legal if, and only if, it is done in order to... protest indecent exposure laws.
So I'm thinking maybe 150, 200 guys in Washington standing on an overpass with their dicks out might be a nice legal test for the Northwest. Sure, you'll get arrested the first time, but think of the progress you'd be making for Penis Rights. It'd be a great photograph, anyway, for the paper.
90
I personally am mortified to discover people are bringing their dicks with them into public places. I think all establishments should have a “penis check room” and that businesses should be allowed to selectively frisk visitors for hidden dicks…
92
Dicks in Bars??!!
Oh shit. And here I was hoping to see a project to get a local, fresh fast food vendor installed in bars. Cuz sometimes you need a snack.
Oh.
Oh shit. And here I was hoping to see a project to get a local, fresh fast food vendor installed in bars. Cuz sometimes you need a snack.
Oh.
95
There is a picture of a whole bunch of dicks (and pussies) from some nude event way back when that is hanging on the wall at the Rosebud.
96
@91, try as I may, I can’t seem to remember the status of George Sr.’s dick in 1980. I find this to be a relief…
98
I believe that Trolls in bars have always been of a greater concern than Dicks. But please, no pictures.
99
Dear lord, a little dick is no big deal. Especially since there were hundreds of people teabagging last month.
101
Speaking of dicks, if you'd gone to basic training at Fort Dix, NJ, a night at the Eagle and the flash of merely one shrinking violet penis wouldn't make so much no never mind.
102
At first I thought you were going to write about dudes who were dicks. But this is much, much better.
103
edit #84> (y'all need an 'edit post' fuction for us retarded folks)
this should have read: "from sissy bitches LIKE Kirby (#56)" Didn't mean to accuse him specifically. But 10 years ago the same shit was going on and it was suspected that the SPD and LCB were getting complaints from a variety of places: people who had been 86'd for various reasons and other disgruntled nellies, and the new neighbors in the new condos across the street.
Great article from yesterday by Jonah Spangenthal-Lee "Lowering the Bar".
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/lower…
Interesting to learn that a (former?) employee is part of the trouble.
To my friends at The Eagle: good luck guys!
this should have read: "from sissy bitches LIKE Kirby (#56)" Didn't mean to accuse him specifically. But 10 years ago the same shit was going on and it was suspected that the SPD and LCB were getting complaints from a variety of places: people who had been 86'd for various reasons and other disgruntled nellies, and the new neighbors in the new condos across the street.
Great article from yesterday by Jonah Spangenthal-Lee "Lowering the Bar".
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/lower…
Interesting to learn that a (former?) employee is part of the trouble.
To my friends at The Eagle: good luck guys!
104
How ironic you put the mayor on the end of your dick, but didn't have the balls to run against him. By the way, is meglomania a mental illness? And BTW2, what does your child think of this - or better yet, what does CPS think of your parenting?
107
I just want to Thank you all at The Wslcb,
For your blatant misuse of taxpayers’ money.
I am chiding a majority response to actually see what it is you do ?? and who is watching you??? so your views are not Bigoted, Raciest, and most objectively
HOMOPHOBIC
The rant on The Seattle Eagle and other establishments that have been a part of our lovely city way before idiots like the 3 of you (you know who you are)
Were fanned to existence, will hopefully come to a halt
I disapprove of the mindless war hero mentality you all at WSLCB represent …your days end is coming
I hope you are smarter than you think
For your blatant misuse of taxpayers’ money.
I am chiding a majority response to actually see what it is you do ?? and who is watching you??? so your views are not Bigoted, Raciest, and most objectively
HOMOPHOBIC
The rant on The Seattle Eagle and other establishments that have been a part of our lovely city way before idiots like the 3 of you (you know who you are)
Were fanned to existence, will hopefully come to a halt
I disapprove of the mindless war hero mentality you all at WSLCB represent …your days end is coming
I hope you are smarter than you think
108
I would just like to comment that everyone who reads this blog should write or call their local representative and law enforcement office and complain about this waste of taxpayer money.I already have. The morality codes in the state of Washington haven't been changed since prohibition. These archaic laws are being used to harass the gay community, exclusively. This is prejudice and is illegal.
The Eagle is a small bar and probably doesn't have the financial reserves to mount a lawsuit against Seattle Police and the Washington State Liquor Control Board.
Also, every third Tuesday of the month at 6:00 PM at the East Precinct is a meeting between Seattle Police and Members of the Gay Community. I was there last week and there were only 7 or 8 people there. I would love to see the chamber overflowing with people wanting to know what is happening.
The Eagle is a small bar and probably doesn't have the financial reserves to mount a lawsuit against Seattle Police and the Washington State Liquor Control Board.
Also, every third Tuesday of the month at 6:00 PM at the East Precinct is a meeting between Seattle Police and Members of the Gay Community. I was there last week and there were only 7 or 8 people there. I would love to see the chamber overflowing with people wanting to know what is happening.
109
whoever's dick it is, it's beautiful! and it's not manscaped to distraction, either! what a great slog, dan.
111
@101: Funny thing, Rhett: I was conceived at either Fort Dix, NJ, or Dickinson U in Carlisle. I've done the math.
112
Many major cities have an "Eagle" bar: they're always the same, leather-ish gay guy bar (though a couple are branching out & inviting more heteros). NYC, DC, LA, Chicago, Phoenix, Portland, Toronto, New Orleans, Charlotte(?), Florida..I've never heard of an Eagle bar being given any legal grief though. Geez, people, you've shoved the freaky gay guys out of sight into some dark, dank little hole of a bar..then you're gonna complain that occasionally, someone might flash their dick there? Yeesh.
That seems conflicted. Also, hopefully, hard to prosecute.
You all should definitely have some kinda Slog Happy or other fundraiser for the Eagle if things get worse for them. You'd miss them if they were gone.
That seems conflicted. Also, hopefully, hard to prosecute.
You all should definitely have some kinda Slog Happy or other fundraiser for the Eagle if things get worse for them. You'd miss them if they were gone.
113
How Fucked up !!!!
The Eagle is a great place, and a far cry from all the over suited gay/Karaoke establishments that have seemed to overrun the neighbourhood
I go there quite often and have for the last 20 some years, I can't believe that all the sudden their is a problem at that bar?
Now years ago when things were a bit dumpier I could have seen, maybe like when the bar staff were all meth'ed out and the customers as well
but this is not the case and hasn't been since like the late 90's,
the music is always so broad and the bartenders are the hottest shit in Seattle gay or Str8.
If all of you that read this want to do something, first off, GO TO THE EAGLE, spend your money there and give them a fighting chance,
I promise,that once you have it as your hangout you wont bother with the ill faded, Cuff, or the other unadventurous Str8 clubs that have tired gay events (Chop Suey)
I think we all need to give The SPD and WSLCB something better to do
Complain,Complain,Complain
...there fucking up a good thing folks
The Eagle is a great place, and a far cry from all the over suited gay/Karaoke establishments that have seemed to overrun the neighbourhood
I go there quite often and have for the last 20 some years, I can't believe that all the sudden their is a problem at that bar?
Now years ago when things were a bit dumpier I could have seen, maybe like when the bar staff were all meth'ed out and the customers as well
but this is not the case and hasn't been since like the late 90's,
the music is always so broad and the bartenders are the hottest shit in Seattle gay or Str8.
If all of you that read this want to do something, first off, GO TO THE EAGLE, spend your money there and give them a fighting chance,
I promise,that once you have it as your hangout you wont bother with the ill faded, Cuff, or the other unadventurous Str8 clubs that have tired gay events (Chop Suey)
I think we all need to give The SPD and WSLCB something better to do
Complain,Complain,Complain
...there fucking up a good thing folks
114
Thank You, Ms Eva Hopkins for being a supportive voice for the gay community (It sounds like you're a straight girl, although I could be wrong!)
I remember a story told tell me once, first they came for the gypsy's and no one complained, then they came for the Jehovah's Witnesses and no one did anything, then they came for the gays and no one complained, then they came for the Jews and no one did anything. Now they've come for me and no one is left to do anything.
I've heard from reliable sources that The Liquor Control Board and SPD have cited ReBar for a Burlesque show there on Friday Night. Granted Rebar isn't a gay bar, but it isn't straight bar either. It's a great bar that serves a wonderful group of people. I don't frequent it all that often, but I do go occasionally when a show piques my interest.
First they came after the gay bars, and no one did anything, now they're going after the gay friendly bars... Who's going to stand up for them?
Does anyone know what went on there Friday night and perhaps share with us?
I remember a story told tell me once, first they came for the gypsy's and no one complained, then they came for the Jehovah's Witnesses and no one did anything, then they came for the gays and no one complained, then they came for the Jews and no one did anything. Now they've come for me and no one is left to do anything.
I've heard from reliable sources that The Liquor Control Board and SPD have cited ReBar for a Burlesque show there on Friday Night. Granted Rebar isn't a gay bar, but it isn't straight bar either. It's a great bar that serves a wonderful group of people. I don't frequent it all that often, but I do go occasionally when a show piques my interest.
First they came after the gay bars, and no one did anything, now they're going after the gay friendly bars... Who's going to stand up for them?
Does anyone know what went on there Friday night and perhaps share with us?
115
Danner: Aww thanks. I'm bi, but would likely still be all lovin' the gays if I was str8. When I come back to Seattle in 2011, I hope the Eagle is still there & you can buy me a drink. :)
116
You know, this isn't a new story - it's an old chapter in a very old story. (Warning: Catalina's going to go for a walk down memory lane here....)
Prior to the late 70's, "rogue elements" of the SPD - working with "rogue elements" of the LCB - routinely shook down gay bar owners (among others). That's one of the reasons why the GSBA was founded: It was originally a bunch of bar owners who came together to try to fight the corruption.
Eventually, the SPD was busted for their payoffs schemes (by the Times, no less) and things got better. But the archaic regulations and bureaucracy that allowed the shakedowns to happen have stayed in place, because politicians are afraid to touch the LCB, and politicians are afraid to be seen as "soft on vice" if they question these laws.
When it comes to the liquor stores themselves, a big part of the reason we can't get rid of them is because of organized labor: They're union jobs, and getting rid of union jobs is thought of as a third rail in Democratic politics. As a union member myself, I think the politicians are being short-sighted and are probably more afraid of the unions than they need to be - I would guess that most union members (other than the ones being eliminated, of course) would see the benefit of closing these stores. The union leadership would fight it, but that's what they are supposed to do, since they are the agents for their members, but I think that internally they probably accept this as inevitable.
My compromise would be to grant franchises to sell liquor only to union grocery stores (where feasible) as the size of those stores would make issues like selling to a minor almost a moot point, but no one has ever proposed that - and even I think that's not the best idea - but if it helps break the monopoly, so be it.
With the state liquor stores and their associated overhead gone, the actual net tax revenue would go up (particularly if we allowed sales on Sunday and sales during bar hours). If they then eliminated the enforcement division on the retail level (you'd still need something on the distributor level, but it wouldn't be involved in any customer behavior issues - that would be up to local authorities, as it is in most other normal parts of the country), that tax money could actually go towards things like schools or treatment programs.
There'd still be the issue of police being able to harass for dumb things like dicks and porn, but at least the redundancy would be gone, and it's much easier to deal with local regulations on the local level (I.e. Seattle might decide to allow porn in bars, and/or strip clubs that serve liquor, Bellevue would decide just to allow strip clubs. )
But as long as the liquor stores continue their monopoly, the funding source for most of the LCB activities will remain, and we are stuck.
More...
Prior to the late 70's, "rogue elements" of the SPD - working with "rogue elements" of the LCB - routinely shook down gay bar owners (among others). That's one of the reasons why the GSBA was founded: It was originally a bunch of bar owners who came together to try to fight the corruption.
Eventually, the SPD was busted for their payoffs schemes (by the Times, no less) and things got better. But the archaic regulations and bureaucracy that allowed the shakedowns to happen have stayed in place, because politicians are afraid to touch the LCB, and politicians are afraid to be seen as "soft on vice" if they question these laws.
When it comes to the liquor stores themselves, a big part of the reason we can't get rid of them is because of organized labor: They're union jobs, and getting rid of union jobs is thought of as a third rail in Democratic politics. As a union member myself, I think the politicians are being short-sighted and are probably more afraid of the unions than they need to be - I would guess that most union members (other than the ones being eliminated, of course) would see the benefit of closing these stores. The union leadership would fight it, but that's what they are supposed to do, since they are the agents for their members, but I think that internally they probably accept this as inevitable.
My compromise would be to grant franchises to sell liquor only to union grocery stores (where feasible) as the size of those stores would make issues like selling to a minor almost a moot point, but no one has ever proposed that - and even I think that's not the best idea - but if it helps break the monopoly, so be it.
With the state liquor stores and their associated overhead gone, the actual net tax revenue would go up (particularly if we allowed sales on Sunday and sales during bar hours). If they then eliminated the enforcement division on the retail level (you'd still need something on the distributor level, but it wouldn't be involved in any customer behavior issues - that would be up to local authorities, as it is in most other normal parts of the country), that tax money could actually go towards things like schools or treatment programs.
There'd still be the issue of police being able to harass for dumb things like dicks and porn, but at least the redundancy would be gone, and it's much easier to deal with local regulations on the local level (I.e. Seattle might decide to allow porn in bars, and/or strip clubs that serve liquor, Bellevue would decide just to allow strip clubs. )
But as long as the liquor stores continue their monopoly, the funding source for most of the LCB activities will remain, and we are stuck.
117
Oops, actually, it was the late 60's when the cops started getting busted. It's much too early in the day for me to be recollecting like this....
See this link on historylink.org for more info.
http://historylink.org/index.cfm?Display…
See this link on historylink.org for more info.
http://historylink.org/index.cfm?Display…
118
Soapbox: The WA LCB only prevents me from drinking in the street. It doesn't prevent homeless people from drinking, e.g. under the wisteria in the parking lot behind the condos across the street from the Eagle. The WA LCB's liquor containment in the bars of Capitol Hill and downtown--surely the most rigorous enforcement area in the state, no?--causes the kind of behavior it supposedly prevents. In other countries, you don't go out until 1 a.m.. Here, you're done then. You don't have time to get to know a room, start up conversations, if you're only in bars from 11 p.m. to 1 a.m.. In my view, the 1 a.m. cutoff takes the "social" out of drinking. Don't get me started on the uncivilized "last call," encouraging kids to quickly belt one down they didn't need and then aggressively kicking them out into the street. That creates mayhem even among the gentlest of software programmers, and it's unpleasant to do to anyone.
120
Ecce and the rest of his prude posse can continue to look at their genitals and cry in shame. The cops aren't busting straight dance clubs with short tight skirts and exposed clams, this shit is targeting "unwanted" gay hotspots. If you don't want to see anything vaguely sexual, don't go to danceclubs. Go to fucking Disney. Go to a bar, which isn't entirely safe either. You're not supposed to take minors I to bars anyway. And there's enough self-hatred as a stereotype without you justifying and cheering on morality laws yourself. You're a dull-witted biddy, more interested in what the worst of straights and an overactive government demand of you than you are rights.
122
So late to the game, but I thought it wasn't illegal to be nude in Seattle. Wasn't there that guy who got arrested in the park because he was nude, and later sued the city because, well it wasn't illegal. It's illegal to engage in sex in public (hello Eagle backroom), but not to have your dick out. Soooooo what leg does the Liquor schmucks have to stand on with just this pic of dick?
p.s.- eating at Bleu Monday night I non consensually overheard some douche who claimed to work for the liquor control board. You couldn't help but overhear him as he tried to name drop the owner of Bleu to the staff and anyone who would listen. He also loudly told his date to tell him what restaurant she wanted a job in on the hill and he would make sure she got it. Man I can't even tell you how annoying and douchey he was. I assume they're all kind of like that.
p.s.- eating at Bleu Monday night I non consensually overheard some douche who claimed to work for the liquor control board. You couldn't help but overhear him as he tried to name drop the owner of Bleu to the staff and anyone who would listen. He also loudly told his date to tell him what restaurant she wanted a job in on the hill and he would make sure she got it. Man I can't even tell you how annoying and douchey he was. I assume they're all kind of like that.
124
Damn nothing wrong with a long thick dick in City hall
There are plenty of very small ones there 2
There are plenty of very small ones there 2
125
Damn nothing wrong with a long thick dick in City hall
There are plenty of very small ones there 2
There are plenty of very small ones there 2
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