Wednesday, May 20, 2009
Religion There Is No Morality Without Religion
Posted by Dan Savage on Wed, May 20, 2009 at 11:18 AM
BBC:
An inquiry into child abuse at Catholic institutions in Ireland has found church leaders knew that sexual abuse was "endemic" in boys' institutions. It also found physical and emotional abuse and neglect were features of institutions. Schools were run "in a severe, regimented manner that imposed unreasonable and oppressive discipline on children and even on staff".The nine-year inquiry investigated a 60-year period.
About 35,000 children were placed in a network of reformatories, industrial schools and workhouses up to the 1980s. More than 2,000 told the Commission to Inquire Into Child Abuse they suffered physical and sexual abuse while there. The leader of the Catholic Church in Ireland, Cardinal Sean Brady, said he was "profoundly sorry and deeply ashamed that children suffered in such awful ways in these institutions." ... The five-volume study concluded that church officials encouraged ritual beatings and consistently shielded their orders' paedophiles from arrest amid a "culture of self-serving secrecy."
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1
Didn't they already make a movie about this, "The Magdeline Sisters"?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0318411/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0318411/
3
The church is a violent degenerate useless institution that does not deserve to survive. "Community of faith" my ass! May the Catholic Church be vanquished from the face of the Earth.
4
Well, we've only known that the Catholic Church thrives on extortion, murder, terror, and systematic abuse for, oh, a millennium and a half or so. It's not like this could have been prevented.
Seriously, though, the Church is the greatest evil empire in the history of humanity. It's committed more evil over its lifetime than all the notorious dictators of history combined. Why do we still tolerate and even embrace it? How can we seriously consider the Pope a "spiritual leader" after past Popes have committed systematic, long-term atrocities that make the worst political violence look trivial?
Seriously, though, the Church is the greatest evil empire in the history of humanity. It's committed more evil over its lifetime than all the notorious dictators of history combined. Why do we still tolerate and even embrace it? How can we seriously consider the Pope a "spiritual leader" after past Popes have committed systematic, long-term atrocities that make the worst political violence look trivial?
5
@#4, I agree and the media falls all over themselves to quote that asshole nazi pope everytime he open his filthy yap. It high time to beging taxing the churches and stop acting like religion is sacred.
6
When your dogma insists that your congregants cannot be redeemed without priestly intervention, the power dyamic is irretrievably fixed.
Priests have no institutional motivation to minister; they can sit back and let their congregants bribe them into performing rites of passage, or use their supplicant bodies for slave labor or pleasure, confident that God wants it that way.
Priests have no institutional motivation to minister; they can sit back and let their congregants bribe them into performing rites of passage, or use their supplicant bodies for slave labor or pleasure, confident that God wants it that way.
8
Sometimes, I wish I were Christian, just so I could dream of the end days wherein the evil filth that is the church gets what's coming to them. Most of the time, I'm just happy not to be bothered with such superstition, and am happily mock flocks of idiots.
9
While yes, Nobody expects the Inquisition; we are starting to catch on to the whole child abuse/rape/molestation thing... Just an FYI Catholic Church, FYI.
10
For a counterpart to The Magdeline Sisters, there's "Song for a Raggy Boy" about the young boys in Irish reformatories. I rented it 'cause my favorite actor, Marc Warren, was a priest in it but found it the most harrowing film I'd ever seen. Based on case studies.
11
But the real question, because this is what could get them in *actual* trouble...
Did they sleep with any women? Or have a relationship with any of them? Cause that would be like TOTALLY BAD. Maybe even get them excommunicated. Without that though, I just can't seem to find outrage.
Love,
The Pope.
Did they sleep with any women? Or have a relationship with any of them? Cause that would be like TOTALLY BAD. Maybe even get them excommunicated. Without that though, I just can't seem to find outrage.
Love,
The Pope.
15
@12
Why not? Historically speaking they ARE Christianity, and numerically speaking they're most of it. If you want to insulate yourself from the actions of the Church, maybe you ought to stop calling yourself Christian, because they had the name first and there are a lot more of them than there are of you.
Why not? Historically speaking they ARE Christianity, and numerically speaking they're most of it. If you want to insulate yourself from the actions of the Church, maybe you ought to stop calling yourself Christian, because they had the name first and there are a lot more of them than there are of you.
16
More details of how the Church is still refusing to name the perpetrators are emerging, as well as a link to the report.
http://www.childabusecommission.ie/rpt/
http://www.childabusecommission.ie/rpt/
17
I'm very, very glad that someone in Ireland finally seems to be taking this seriously - the Church has held political sway for far too long and has prevented this sort of investigation for too many years.
Unfortunately, this Commission's findings (at least as reported here) only represent part of the problem. Girls were also abused - mentally, physically, and sexually - by priests and nuns, and their abusers were never punished either. In fact, because of the Church's warped stance on female sexuality, girls were punished if any evidence of sexual abuse (say, pregnancy) were discovered because clearly the girls must have enticed their abusers. In addition, it sometimes seems that sexual abuse of boys by men is seen as somehow worse than sexual abuse of girls by men, maybe because the same-sex aspect is seen as that much more deviant. (And rarely is there ever ANY discussion of sexual abuse of any kind by women, even in this case where nuns were known to be abusers as well.)
While I want - desperately want - all of the abusers to be punished and for the Church to suffer for allowing this culture to develop and thrive, I wish I could feel more confident that all of the victims' experiences are going to be judged as equally scarring and horrific. Singling out male-on-male sexual abuse for particular emphasis and concern will not do anything to help stop the still-virulent culture of abuse by religious leaders in the Catholic Church and throughout other religious communities.
Unfortunately, this Commission's findings (at least as reported here) only represent part of the problem. Girls were also abused - mentally, physically, and sexually - by priests and nuns, and their abusers were never punished either. In fact, because of the Church's warped stance on female sexuality, girls were punished if any evidence of sexual abuse (say, pregnancy) were discovered because clearly the girls must have enticed their abusers. In addition, it sometimes seems that sexual abuse of boys by men is seen as somehow worse than sexual abuse of girls by men, maybe because the same-sex aspect is seen as that much more deviant. (And rarely is there ever ANY discussion of sexual abuse of any kind by women, even in this case where nuns were known to be abusers as well.)
While I want - desperately want - all of the abusers to be punished and for the Church to suffer for allowing this culture to develop and thrive, I wish I could feel more confident that all of the victims' experiences are going to be judged as equally scarring and horrific. Singling out male-on-male sexual abuse for particular emphasis and concern will not do anything to help stop the still-virulent culture of abuse by religious leaders in the Catholic Church and throughout other religious communities.
18
Elena @17: In the news story where I found the link to the report, there was mention that the abusers were both male and female and that girls as well as boys were victims of various forms of abuse (physical, sexual, emotional, verbal,...).
19
@12 - it seems like judging the Catholic Church by the Catholic Church is damning enough. The others surely have enough of their own damnation-worthy qualities.
20
What's even more disgusting about these cases is that in several instances, the department of education were aware of the allegations, but either ignored them or were complicit in the covering up.
That, and the report, for all the effort of those involved, still does not name any names, and it is incredibly unlikely any will be prosecuted who have not already. This is the front-page story on every paper over here at the moment, and hopefully it will remain in the news until the victims get justice. The main victim advocacy group weren't even allowed at the commission's launch.
That, and the report, for all the effort of those involved, still does not name any names, and it is incredibly unlikely any will be prosecuted who have not already. This is the front-page story on every paper over here at the moment, and hopefully it will remain in the news until the victims get justice. The main victim advocacy group weren't even allowed at the commission's launch.
21
What's even more disgusting about these cases is that in several instances, the department of education were aware of the allegations, but either ignored them or were complicit in the covering up.
That, and the report, for all the effort of those involved, still does not name any names, and it is incredibly unlikely any will be prosecuted who have not already. This is the front-page story on every paper over here at the moment, and hopefully it will remain in the news until the victims get justice. The main victim advocacy group weren't even allowed at the commission's launch.
That, and the report, for all the effort of those involved, still does not name any names, and it is incredibly unlikely any will be prosecuted who have not already. This is the front-page story on every paper over here at the moment, and hopefully it will remain in the news until the victims get justice. The main victim advocacy group weren't even allowed at the commission's launch.
22
What's even more disgusting about these cases is that in several instances, the department of education were aware of the allegations, but either ignored them or were complicit in the covering up.
That, and the report, for all the effort of those involved, still does not name any names, and it is incredibly unlikely any will be prosecuted who have not already. This is the front-page story on every paper over here at the moment, and hopefully it will remain in the news until the victims get justice. The main victim advocacy group weren't even allowed at the commission's launch.
That, and the report, for all the effort of those involved, still does not name any names, and it is incredibly unlikely any will be prosecuted who have not already. This is the front-page story on every paper over here at the moment, and hopefully it will remain in the news until the victims get justice. The main victim advocacy group weren't even allowed at the commission's launch.
23
15
The history of Christianity for the past 500 years has been about rejecting the Catholic Church.
The Christianity that animated the founders of this country was Protestant.
Numerically Catholics are a minority among United States Christians.
That's why.
The history of Christianity for the past 500 years has been about rejecting the Catholic Church.
The Christianity that animated the founders of this country was Protestant.
Numerically Catholics are a minority among United States Christians.
That's why.
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