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News & ArtsMonday, May 18, 2009
Politics / Homo Fierce Urgency Of Whenever Watch
Posted by Dan Savage on Mon, May 18, 2009 at 4:58 PM
Today The Advocate's Kerry Eleveld asks Obama's press secretary Robert Gibbs about the president's timetable for the repealing the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA). President Obama not only promised to repeal DOMA if elected, he held up his support for a full repeal of DOMA as a critical difference between himself and Hillary Clinton. (Clinton only supported a partial repeal of DOMA.) Gibbs' answer could not possibly be more dismissive:
The Obama administration appears to have no intention whatsoever of following through on any of the promises Obama made during the campaign. They clearly want gay issues—and gay reporters—to go away. We need to make sure that the Obama administration understands that the only real way to make this issue go away—the only way to get us to turn down the volume—is for the president to start delivering on the commitments he made during the campaign. (Video via Towleroad.)
I'm thinking a march on Washington is in order. Let's take our demands to his front door.
3
I'm glad you're raising your voice. It will be disappointing if we don't hear anything soon, but I honestly don't think Gibbs knew the answer to the question. If we keep asking, though, he'll have to come up with something -- he'll have to "check on that" as he says.
4
I'm beginning to wonder if the Obama administration, Like Nader(another hero to straight lefties) before him, is going to be dismissing all gay issues as gonadal politics.
8
I still say that while the pressure needs to be placed, the absolute WORST thing that the President could do to kill the momentum that has brought one state a month to recognize same-sex marriage would be to act to repeal DOMA.
It would be an incredible shot in the arm for the entire religious right wing to see Obama on national TV announcing that. And poor Gibbs is trying his best to keep the cards close to the chest.
Keep up the pressure, by all means, but remember how often Obama has been proven right in his long-term strategies so far. I mean, his maneuvering has so far felled the Clinton ivory tower, gotten Cheney to speak publicly and damn himself, gotten the RNC to implode, and has Republicans giving Pelosi political cover for a Truth Commission (and even gaining support for said Commission among Republicans). Oh, and that whole one state per month rate of recognition of same sex marriage thing.
But you know, surely that's all a coincidence.
The point is that tons of progress is being made WITHOUT him having to directly confront the opposition. At the rate things are going, he and Congress will have more than enough political cover to do it soon. When he has that, he'll tell the spineless Dems in Congress to repeal DOMA and DADT the right way - through Congressional legislation.
And he'll be able to (truthfully) say it was the will of the majority.
But that only happens if he keeps his mouth shut about it for another 8 months or so.
It would be an incredible shot in the arm for the entire religious right wing to see Obama on national TV announcing that. And poor Gibbs is trying his best to keep the cards close to the chest.
Keep up the pressure, by all means, but remember how often Obama has been proven right in his long-term strategies so far. I mean, his maneuvering has so far felled the Clinton ivory tower, gotten Cheney to speak publicly and damn himself, gotten the RNC to implode, and has Republicans giving Pelosi political cover for a Truth Commission (and even gaining support for said Commission among Republicans). Oh, and that whole one state per month rate of recognition of same sex marriage thing.
But you know, surely that's all a coincidence.
The point is that tons of progress is being made WITHOUT him having to directly confront the opposition. At the rate things are going, he and Congress will have more than enough political cover to do it soon. When he has that, he'll tell the spineless Dems in Congress to repeal DOMA and DADT the right way - through Congressional legislation.
And he'll be able to (truthfully) say it was the will of the majority.
But that only happens if he keeps his mouth shut about it for another 8 months or so.
9
6
that is a good strategy.
everyone likes to be nagged daily by screeching whiny bitch homoharpies.
that is a good strategy.
everyone likes to be nagged daily by screeching whiny bitch homoharpies.
10
There's so much wrong with that last sentence. I'm gonna give the person who wrote it the benefit of the doubt, but it still sounds bad and the more that these sort of threats are done the more inexcusable they become.
11
PLEASE PLEASE take it to congress.
thus far what has happened has been in small liberal states and judicial councils.
put the battle in a national arena where conservatives and the gop can bring all their weapons to bear.
there are a lot of people itching for a chance to weigh in...
thus far what has happened has been in small liberal states and judicial councils.
put the battle in a national arena where conservatives and the gop can bring all their weapons to bear.
there are a lot of people itching for a chance to weigh in...
13
Dan still doesn't get it -- apparently never will. It's hard to see the big picture when you are the Gay Glenn Beck. It should be a big, happy, important (though incomplete) day in WA State for gay and lesbian couples, but I guess Dan the 3-year old didn't get enough attention...go ahead and march on Washington -- I am sure that will work out exactly as you have planned. Sort of like the Day without a Gay fixed things in CA.
14
What are you going to do Dan, organize a march? No, you'll talk about, then report on, then criticize a march. Just like you always do!
15
BO08 held up several things as critical differences between himself and Hillary Clinton.
All lies, right?
So, whose fault is that?
All lies, right?
So, whose fault is that?
16
While I keep urging patience, while I keep saying that the O's got a lot on his plate, keep reminding folks that Our O has plenty of time to do the right thing, keep pointing out that he is ducking the issue, not outright reversing his position blah blah blah blah...
I want to make it perfectly and abundantly clear that I am by no means telling y'all to sit down shut up and be happy with what you got.
A million 'mo march sounds muy fabuloso to this here perverted Texian.
Let's get together with numbers to make the Teabaggers weep!
I want to make it perfectly and abundantly clear that I am by no means telling y'all to sit down shut up and be happy with what you got.
A million 'mo march sounds muy fabuloso to this here perverted Texian.
Let's get together with numbers to make the Teabaggers weep!
17
Ah yes the mastermind Obama cleverly got Cheney to talk....he cleverly got Iowa supreme court to rule....then he cleverly got the NH governor to sign.....then he cleverly DIDN'T go to congress to repeal DOMA and he cleverly APPEARED TO REINSTATE BUSH POLICIES on releasing torture photos (all part of a long range plan to be more transparent, natch) and cleverly reinstated military tribunals and cleverly excluded single payer from the heatlh care debate table (all part of the long march to single payer, as per commenters on Slog, you see) because he's so fucking good at faking right and moving left pretty soon now he's going to turn into fucking JOHN CONYERS.
Who btw Obama cleverly got to complain today that Obama's being too conservative.
My god he is clever. Let us bow and pray...... He in his Infinite Mystery Cannot Be Understood By Mortals.....
Who btw Obama cleverly got to complain today that Obama's being too conservative.
My god he is clever. Let us bow and pray...... He in his Infinite Mystery Cannot Be Understood By Mortals.....
18
This is the age of the internet. Wouldn't it make more sense to start a Utube movement or writing the Whitehouse.gov.
19
@13 Good Grief:
I think we might agree on some things, but describing someone as a 3-year-old while calling them names should've set off your Irony Alert.
I think we might agree on some things, but describing someone as a 3-year-old while calling them names should've set off your Irony Alert.
20
"The Obama administration appears to have no intention whatsoever of following through on any of the promises Obama made during the campaign."
Then switch parties, Dan. It's been 4 months. What exactly do you consider "action." What is it that Obama can do that you would consider movement? What's clear to me is that Obama was foolish enough to think that there would be at least several months, maybe *gasp*, a year or two, to make good on his promises. Apparently he only had a few weeks, if that. So create a third party and run for President yourself. Think about it; America is now totally ready to repeal DOMA and DADT and institute official gay marriage nationwide. You really should not have any problems then.
Then switch parties, Dan. It's been 4 months. What exactly do you consider "action." What is it that Obama can do that you would consider movement? What's clear to me is that Obama was foolish enough to think that there would be at least several months, maybe *gasp*, a year or two, to make good on his promises. Apparently he only had a few weeks, if that. So create a third party and run for President yourself. Think about it; America is now totally ready to repeal DOMA and DADT and institute official gay marriage nationwide. You really should not have any problems then.
22
@17 PC:
Oh I'm not happy about the tribunals. Not at all. But that's a different battle. We're talking about DOMA and DADT here, and those battles are being won without him giving the far-right a huge boost. Besides, this has to happen in Congress, and we've gotta wait until enough states pass these laws to get the political cover and momentum.
Which is why I think he's smart for not pushing it.
The tribunals, the health care single-payer thing, the photos: I'm not happy about.
Oh I'm not happy about the tribunals. Not at all. But that's a different battle. We're talking about DOMA and DADT here, and those battles are being won without him giving the far-right a huge boost. Besides, this has to happen in Congress, and we've gotta wait until enough states pass these laws to get the political cover and momentum.
Which is why I think he's smart for not pushing it.
The tribunals, the health care single-payer thing, the photos: I'm not happy about.
23
While I (a middle-aged queen of the old school variety) personally think that Obama has a lot more on his plate right now than gay issues - particularly since the gay issues seem to be gradually resolving themselves - I fully support strident reminders.
But here's the thing: Hysteria and drama just make people - myself included - roll their eyes. There's a lot to be said for strident dignity.
We are indeed here, and we are indeed queer, and we are citizens who deserve full rights. But a Rosa Parks model works much better for me than a pissy queen model.
In other words, let's not upset the board game and lock ourselves in the bathroom for a good cry if we perceive we are losing. Let's just play the game better.
But here's the thing: Hysteria and drama just make people - myself included - roll their eyes. There's a lot to be said for strident dignity.
We are indeed here, and we are indeed queer, and we are citizens who deserve full rights. But a Rosa Parks model works much better for me than a pissy queen model.
In other words, let's not upset the board game and lock ourselves in the bathroom for a good cry if we perceive we are losing. Let's just play the game better.
25
As much as I like Dan, and as smart and on-the-money as he typically is, I feel sorry for him at moments like this. The one thing that you can always rely on is that politicians don't keep their promises, ESPECIALLY campaign promises!
26
We're not relying on him to keep his promises. We're keeping the pressure on to make sure he keeps 'em. It's what we're supposed to do, no?
And Will? ACT-UP was crazy effective for it's first decade. You don't know what you're talking about.
And Will? ACT-UP was crazy effective for it's first decade. You don't know what you're talking about.
28
Very well said Catalina.
Mention must and should continue to be made of the issues.
Reminding the administration of promises made - that must be kept; that's the way to make sure that key issues like marriage equality, repealing DOMA and DADT don't get forgotten or swept aside.
Daily reminders can be a good thing. And if they find it to be too 'annoying' well, the surest way to 'make the reminders stop' is to fulfill the obligation by completing the promised tasks - thus no more need for reminders.
Mention must and should continue to be made of the issues.
Reminding the administration of promises made - that must be kept; that's the way to make sure that key issues like marriage equality, repealing DOMA and DADT don't get forgotten or swept aside.
Daily reminders can be a good thing. And if they find it to be too 'annoying' well, the surest way to 'make the reminders stop' is to fulfill the obligation by completing the promised tasks - thus no more need for reminders.
29
You guys know there's already a Million Gay March being organized, right?
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Million-Ga…
www.milliongaymarch.org
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Million-Ga…
www.milliongaymarch.org
30
I marched in the big 1993 gay March on Washington... just months before Clinton signed DADT. You see what good that did.
Not doing it again.
Not doing it again.
31
I support strident, dignified reminders at the present time, but seeing as I'm only an ally, my thoughts aren't of any real consequence.
32
"We're not relying on him to keep his promises. We're keeping the pressure on to make sure he keeps 'em. It's what we're supposed to do, no?"
But if Obama has abandoned his promises, why bother? You keep saying your keeping on him and then saying he clearly isn't going to do anything, and doesn't want to talk about it. But, your also sticking around to make sure he keeps his promises? So which is it? Obama is a liar who fooled you, or Obama isn't moving at a pace you find acceptable? Or somewhere between?
But if Obama has abandoned his promises, why bother? You keep saying your keeping on him and then saying he clearly isn't going to do anything, and doesn't want to talk about it. But, your also sticking around to make sure he keeps his promises? So which is it? Obama is a liar who fooled you, or Obama isn't moving at a pace you find acceptable? Or somewhere between?
33
A march each in Spokane, Vancouver, and Seattle for support of the "Everything but marriage" D.P. bill would do more for couples here in WA than a march in DC to which many WA residents won't go. To suggest Gay folk go to DC, spend 100s of dollars, and several days and hope to be effective (highly doubtful) seems to be a waste of time, money, and effort.
I'd advocate for three massive marches here in WA (as stated above) where in Gay folk from Pugetopolis lend support by driving to Spokane and Vancouver and march for a few hours in each city. Then do the same in Seattle. Three dates, three marches. Cheap in money, time and effort relative to DC and most probably more effective for Washington's Gay citizens.
The Radical Religious Extremists seem to be able to bus people all over the state and rally support, why don't Gay citizens do the same? Do Gay citizens REALLY want equal rights?
I'd advocate for three massive marches here in WA (as stated above) where in Gay folk from Pugetopolis lend support by driving to Spokane and Vancouver and march for a few hours in each city. Then do the same in Seattle. Three dates, three marches. Cheap in money, time and effort relative to DC and most probably more effective for Washington's Gay citizens.
The Radical Religious Extremists seem to be able to bus people all over the state and rally support, why don't Gay citizens do the same? Do Gay citizens REALLY want equal rights?
34
Christ, that press sec is worse than the freaks Bush had manning the screen. Worse than dismissive, he actually broadcasts disdain. That clip made me furious.
35
Let's find some room for slippage, here. Be furious about content, not delivery. I'm gonna give him another chance. Would somebody please ask him the same question one more time?
36
To be totally fair, it would be a LOT smarter for Obama to wait until that piece of shit Norm Coleman has exhausted every fucking retarded legal avenue he can to prevent Al Franken from being seated and for Franken to be actually seated before taking on DOMA and DADT in congress. This is definitely an something the Republicans will fight, hard. You can bet your life they'll filibuster if they have the numbers.
That said, I'm also disappointed in Obama on equality issues so far so maybe I'm just grasping at straws. But it's not impossible. I think Obama likes to have all his ducks in a row before he does things so he doesn't waste a lot of time spinning his wheels first.
In the meantime, though, you can go to NormDollar.com and donate $1 a day for every day that Norm continues his legal charade to delay Franken's victory. Proceeds go to support progressive candidates in the 2010 elections. Nearly $100k raised so far!
That said, I'm also disappointed in Obama on equality issues so far so maybe I'm just grasping at straws. But it's not impossible. I think Obama likes to have all his ducks in a row before he does things so he doesn't waste a lot of time spinning his wheels first.
In the meantime, though, you can go to NormDollar.com and donate $1 a day for every day that Norm continues his legal charade to delay Franken's victory. Proceeds go to support progressive candidates in the 2010 elections. Nearly $100k raised so far!
37
Gibbs called on the Advocate reporter for a reason. He obviously deliberately wanted to get a provocative question about gay rights, and then blow her off publicly.
He may be trying to (1) send the message that the administration is absolutely not interested in gay issues at all, or (2) create that IMPRESSION to disarm the republicans. After all, if Obama seems hostile, it's hard to use that as a wedge issue.
Option (3) is that the reporter was picked in error and he just blew her off, which is the least complex and therefore the most likely.
He may be trying to (1) send the message that the administration is absolutely not interested in gay issues at all, or (2) create that IMPRESSION to disarm the republicans. After all, if Obama seems hostile, it's hard to use that as a wedge issue.
Option (3) is that the reporter was picked in error and he just blew her off, which is the least complex and therefore the most likely.
38
@12 and @26 Act Up was and continues to bring about all sorts of change, from a sped up FDA approval process for drugs, to winning AIDS drug assistance programs all over the states, and getting needle exchange programs. In fact, there were Act Up people at the forefront of PEPFAR 2.
39
In 1989, ACT UP staged a demonstration on Wall Street protesting the high price of AZT drugs. Within a week, Borroughs Wellcome lowered the price by 20%. That's real change that made a real difference in people's lives. Do some research--ACT UP wasn't perfect, but they made real progress. What would you prefer? Radio silence?
42
I really think you're right Dan, we need to March...in all our numbers, for as long as we can. Let's bring media attention to this issue. We need someone closer to the capital to try to organize this.
43
Gay guy here. Obama has been president for less than three months. By all means, keep the pressure on him, but he has four years left (at least). He didn't say when he'd do it. BTW, he's president, not king. DOMA and DADT require congressional action. Repugnicans can block these matters in the Senate.... Nonetheless, he does need to try.
44
I think the guy to watch is Barney Frank. He was on Bill Maher a couple weeks ago and he seemed pretty confident that all this was going to happen and that they were hard at work behind the scenes doing the prep work.
I think there is some truth to that. Think of it from a military point of view - why telegraph your moves before you are ready to advance? Why give the opposition motivation to prepare a counter attack?
All one has to do is look at the failures of the Clinton administration (losing control of congress and what that did to health care et al). I'm not saying Obama is flawless but I really think he has a strategy - whether it works or not remains to be seen but I really do thing there is a plan and that the current phase is already taking place.
If Barney Frank starts to be critical of the president we'll know something is up - but right now - on these issues - he comes across as very positive.
I think there is some truth to that. Think of it from a military point of view - why telegraph your moves before you are ready to advance? Why give the opposition motivation to prepare a counter attack?
All one has to do is look at the failures of the Clinton administration (losing control of congress and what that did to health care et al). I'm not saying Obama is flawless but I really think he has a strategy - whether it works or not remains to be seen but I really do thing there is a plan and that the current phase is already taking place.
If Barney Frank starts to be critical of the president we'll know something is up - but right now - on these issues - he comes across as very positive.
45
@ 10 - "There's so much wrong with that last sentence." Why? Because only black people are allowed to march on Washington? Beacuse only black people get to decide what is and isn't a civil rights issue? Bullshit - on you and your homophobic nonsense.
By the way, Dan posted something special just for YOU a little while ago. You should really go check it out. You're finally getting the attention you so desperately crave. Enjoy it while you can, asshole.
By the way, Dan posted something special just for YOU a little while ago. You should really go check it out. You're finally getting the attention you so desperately crave. Enjoy it while you can, asshole.
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