Slog
News & ArtsMonday, May 18, 2009
Religion O They Will Know We Are Christians...
Posted by Dan Savage on Mon, May 18, 2009 at 9:30 AM
...by our support for the victims of domestic violence. Wait? Did I say victims? I meant perpetrators:
Ferber is a petite strawberry-blonde with a pretty, round-cheeked face, and a voice that sometimes sounds hesitant. Four years ago, she approached a Saddleback pastor for protection against her husband, who’d violently attacked her while they were driving home from church. Instead of protecting her, Ferber says, the pastor called her husband to warn him that Ferber had been “gossiping about their marriage.” Ferber, it seems, had run into Saddleback’s teaching that the sanctity of marriage prohibits divorce in all but a few circumstances, and domestic violence is not one of them....“There’s something in me that wishes there was a Bible verse that says if they abuse you in this and such kind of way then you can leave them,” said [Saddelback Pastor Tom] Holladay, but sadly, he concluded, there wasn’t. "It’s not like you can escape the pain,” he said, since the “short-term solution” of divorce leaves the “long-term pain” of a failed marriage. Holladay further qualified that domestic abuse meant regular beatings, not simply a spouse who “grabbed you once.”
But regular beatings or a once-in-a-marital-lifetime grab, you still shouldn't leave your abusive spouse, says Rick Warren's Saddelback Church, the kinder, gentler face of American evangelicalism. Ferber is no longer a member of Saddelback; she says she was "frozen out" after her husband—the man who assaulted her—filed for divorce. Her ex-husband is now a worship leader at Saddelback.
1
Aw man, am I gonna be the one pointing out "Saddleback" and asking where the link is?
Oh, I guess so.
Oh, I guess so.
2
@1 If you meant the link to the story, it's up at the top on the word "perpetrators". Or were you looking for an Urban Dictionary link?
3
let me guess - it was okay for him to file because she didn't make him enough sammiches. If there's one thing god loves more than marriage, it's sammiches.
and, link please!
and, link please!
4
Renton Mike: The link wasn't there when the story was first posted. But thanks for pointing out the obvious in case I had missed it.
5
From the article:
"Saddleback is now launching a revamped 30-week domestic violence program for victims. Saddleback’s new policy is to advise unilateral legal separation in any unsafe spousal abuse cases and police intervention, so that, Baker says, “victims [are put] in the position where they have to get help.” Marriage counseling is no longer the first option, and a program for abusers is anticipated by year’s end."
Hopefully they'll actually do this well...
"Saddleback is now launching a revamped 30-week domestic violence program for victims. Saddleback’s new policy is to advise unilateral legal separation in any unsafe spousal abuse cases and police intervention, so that, Baker says, “victims [are put] in the position where they have to get help.” Marriage counseling is no longer the first option, and a program for abusers is anticipated by year’s end."
Hopefully they'll actually do this well...
6
I hope she is getting help. Here story is so common. They love to quote the first part of Malachi 2:16. "God hates divorce", but neglect the rest of the verse, "says the LORD God of Israel, 'and I hate a man's covering himself with violence as well as with his garment,' says the LORD Almighty. So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith." In ancient Israel when a man covered a women with his garment, he took responsibility for her (see the story of Ruth). I can't grasp the hypocrisy of ignoring that the scriptures state that God hates a man being violent with his wife, and that pastors seem to cherry pick right over Isaiah 50:1 and Jeremiah 3:8 where God announces that he has divorced Israel, because they broke their covenant with the Lord. Is a man beating his wife not breaking his covenant with her? Is not the life of the wife not worth more than the marriage? Evidently, not according to the pastors at Saddelback.
8
Gotta love the hypocrisy.... she gets shunned because of the divorce, and he gets to be a "worship leader." Yuk.
9
she spoke to a pastor in confidence and he rats her out to her husband. lady, you are WELL RID of these fuckers. why belong to a church like that?
10
Why don't stories like this get more coverage in the MSM?
This is a precursor to life if the American Taliban had their way.
Scary, scary for women.
This is a precursor to life if the American Taliban had their way.
Scary, scary for women.
11
Well, this all makes perfect sense once you understand that the Bible tells us that women are men's property.
Fucking religious kooks.
Fucking religious kooks.
12
@11 - and the quote that her husband used as a prelude to the divorce was, of course "The wife's body does not belong to her alone, but also to her husband."
14
If we don't allow men to beat their wives like the bible says then pretty soon they'll be enjoying sex like indecent whores. Sometimes outside of marriage even. In non-God-approved positions! Is that what you want, Dan?
16
My sister actually believes this kind of thing. In her (& her church's) view, when you say your marriage vows, you're not making a promise to the other person that you'll hold up your end of the deal if they hold up theirs; you're making a promise to God that you will hold up your end no matter what. So divorce is **never** an option. I asked "well what if he beats you? And drinks too much and cheats and etc. etc. etc.?" Her answer was, if that happens, you don't file for divorce, you just have to pray.
Fortunately for her (and her 7 children), her husband is a nice guy.
Fortunately for her (and her 7 children), her husband is a nice guy.
17
The bible doesn't say anything about abortion, stem cells, airplanes, heart surgery, etc. but they sure do write the shit as they go along.
18
Sounds like Pastor Warren is following the "Rule of Thumb." (If you don't know the origin of that saying, kids, Google it...)
19
It is a kind of religion-sanctioned B&D, when you think about it. The problem is, as the sub, you've got no easy way to get out of the scenario. Maybe fundie religion will be the new kink.
20
Next thing you know, if you start letting women leave abusive husbands, they'll stop wearing corsets.
Right?
Right?
22
@ 20...or start wearing them, again...corsets are HOT.
So let me get this straight. Mr. Warren would be prohibited from ratting out a kiddie-rapist among his "flock" to the police, but it's cool to call up the wife-beater and let him know she needs a few more licks. Got it...
So let me get this straight. Mr. Warren would be prohibited from ratting out a kiddie-rapist among his "flock" to the police, but it's cool to call up the wife-beater and let him know she needs a few more licks. Got it...
23
@16
I know a mormon guy who's answer to anything controversial is "I just pray about it."
Like, when I asked him, "what if your minister (pastor whatever they're called) made a proclamation that you KNEW in your heart was wrong?"
Answer: "I'd pray about it."
So, in other words, they do nothing about it.
I know a mormon guy who's answer to anything controversial is "I just pray about it."
Like, when I asked him, "what if your minister (pastor whatever they're called) made a proclamation that you KNEW in your heart was wrong?"
Answer: "I'd pray about it."
So, in other words, they do nothing about it.
24
16 - Your sister should wait until she actually gets the shit beaten out of her before making that type of pronouncement. Remember, according to conservatives, empathy is an evil trait.
25
Well, what do you expect from people who think women are men's property and also that men are allowed to beat their wives with a rod no thicker than their thumb/finger for their own good!?
26
These people can live their lives as they choose, allowing themselves to be abused and so on, but they have no right to impose their lifestyle choices on me.
If Gellies (my cute term for funamentalist evangelicals like members of Saddlefuck Church)...if Gellies could make the laws, then domestic violence would no longer be a crime.
Add that to homosexuality being punishable as a crime, et al, ad nauseum.
Why are so many of my fellow Americans so fucked up in the head as to go to churches like Saddlefuck?
If Gellies (my cute term for funamentalist evangelicals like members of Saddlefuck Church)...if Gellies could make the laws, then domestic violence would no longer be a crime.
Add that to homosexuality being punishable as a crime, et al, ad nauseum.
Why are so many of my fellow Americans so fucked up in the head as to go to churches like Saddlefuck?
27
Will --
You know who needs to START wearing a fucking corset?
Rick "Lard Ass" Warren, that's who. :)
You know who needs to START wearing a fucking corset?
Rick "Lard Ass" Warren, that's who. :)
29
What the fucking hell. Anyone have links to MSM coverage of this? It oughta be front-page news everywhere.
And @ 19: God, I hope not...though I suppose it could have an interesting side...
And @ 19: God, I hope not...though I suppose it could have an interesting side...
30
I promised my friend I'd leave a comment and a link here to her blog. Vyckie and Laura came out of a Quiverful/Patriarchal life where the abuse was verbal and emotional but where the scars are just as deep. Vyckie came out with 7 kids and Laura with 11. They've been telling their story at http://2spb.blogspot.com/ and if you should decide to go there be sure to click on the Forums link to check out the community that evolved since this blog was started a short time ago.
Advertisement
Most Commented on Slog
-
Hating People Doesn't Make Them Thinner by Jen Graves
-
Los Angeles Gay Bar Bans Bachelorette Parties Until Marriage Equality Is Attained by David Schmader
-
Fill in the Blank by Grant Brissey
-
This Reminds Me of the Great Calculator Scare of the Late '70s/Early '80s by David Schmader
-
Idiot Tries to Defend Bigoted Anti-Gay-Marriage Preacher on Anderson Cooper by Paul Constant
-
Six Moms with Too Much Time on Their Hands and a Shitty Website Decide to Fight Gay Superheroes by Paul Constant
-
Why Mayor McGinn's Wife Canceled Her Family's Seattle Times Subscription by Eli Sanders
-
What the Hell Is Wrong With Seattle's Pride Parade? by Dominic Holden
-
The Saturday Morning News by Unpaid Intern
-
NYC Man Ticketed for Not Riding in the Bike Lane by Jonathan Golob
RSS
Facebook
Twitter
Comments (30) RSS