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News & ArtsFriday, May 15, 2009
Savage Love Savage Love Letter of the Day
Posted by Dan Savage on Fri, May 15, 2009 at 2:45 PM
Thank you SO MUCH for your reply to "Life Decisions," the woman who was grappling with allowing her husband to have other sexual experiences! You are so right to advise her to get a new therapist! I am in the very same boat: I love my husband, he loves me. So deeply. But we've been married for 20 years and he is absolutely dying of monogamy. He lived in a depressed state for literally years until we worked this out. We are now branching carefully into open marriage, and he actually has a "date" arranged with a person I know and am cool with. What is the big deal?Life Decisions? Don't let society drag you down and make you feel like a sap. That's easy to say, but it's very very difficult to deal with. I told one of my best friends that I was allowing my husband to "branch out," and she looked at me like I said I was going to saw off my own arm with a steak knife. This is a woman who has not touched her husband sexually in more than three years! And I'm the freak? You and your husband are already at a good place of being able to talk about this—that's a huge, beneficial first step. Don't end your marriage. Too many marriages go down in flames because people don't talk about this, and they don't see an option. Our society allows for cheating, lying, abuse, and a gazillion other vile sins in every other area—but we are to NEVER branch out in marriage? It makes no sense.
Talk to your husband, find a good open-marriage therapist, and keep loving each other. You can work it out—I'm out here doing the same thing! So you are not alone. I'll bet there are thousands of us—it's just too taboo for this repressed society to discuss openly. Thanks, Dan, for letting us do that!
Branching Out Despite Society's Taboos
You're welcome, BODST, and thanks for sharing.
2
It isn't too taboo for this so-called "repressed society" to discuss openly. Society is only repressed if you're ashamed of who you are, and care about what everyone else thinks. And you're only oppressed if you allow yourself to be (or want to be).
3
Is there a resource out there that lists licensed therapists who will validate people who seek open relationships or marriages?
4
OK, BODST, please tell me you get to branch out, too, though. I'd hate to see social acceptance of open relationships turn into a trend of men who threaten to leave their wives if they don't get to fuck other people, and wives who then become the "uncooperative" one if they're not OK with it.
It's a great idea in theory, but only if it's fairly applied. I feel like I know very few people who have relationships healthy enough to wade through the complications ...
It's a great idea in theory, but only if it's fairly applied. I feel like I know very few people who have relationships healthy enough to wade through the complications ...
7
A purely anecdotal response: out of everyone in my social circle, all those I knew who were in open relationships didn't last long. It tends to be a last gasp in a dying relationship.
Not all the monogamists are still coupled, but the ones that are tend to be doing a lot better.
Not all the monogamists are still coupled, but the ones that are tend to be doing a lot better.
8
@3: In the comments section #43 (notallbad) shared the following link as a resource for finding therapists:
http://www.polychromatic.com/pfp/psych.h…
http://www.polychromatic.com/pfp/psych.h…
10
@7: I'm guessing you are talking about relatively young relationships.
There are a bazillion middle age het couples with kids where one of them (usually the wife) loses interest in sex, and life for both becomes a living hell. It would be interesting to compare the divorce rates of those in this circumstance who open the relationship with those who don't.
There are a bazillion middle age het couples with kids where one of them (usually the wife) loses interest in sex, and life for both becomes a living hell. It would be interesting to compare the divorce rates of those in this circumstance who open the relationship with those who don't.
11
I'm in an open relationship (years and years of it), and in my experience, though we have certainly had some troubles now and again, my friends in monogamous relationships have had just as many or more troubles, and the problems are often around people having crushes or interest in others. Relationships have bumps--every type of relationship. I think mine actually has worked out much better than those of most friends of mine. My friends in those very committed and very caring monogamous relationships still have had secret crushes and flirtations and sometimes affairs that they agonize about. Nicer to be able to discuss those things with my partner and not have to entirely hide some very normal feelings. Also nice to occasionally be able to realize some desires in a considerate manner without the world falling apart.
12
It's easier to be faithful and/or take your infidelities to the grave if you are expecting to die at like 70. But when you have had 20 years of sexless marriage, and expect 20 + more years of the same! I think that's the only way it truely is going to work for people.
13
As long as both members of the couple are ok with this, I honestly see no reason not to. I, personally, am not sure I would ever be ok with branching out (or having my husband do so), but we are still a very young couple. Who knows what will happen 20, 30, 40 years from now?
I actually have 1 question about this: How do couples deal with the emotional attachment that comes with "crushes" or whatever? I mean, obviously to choose an open marriage over simply divorcing there is still a connection you want to maintain with your spouse, so how are the non-sexual ramifications dealt with?
I actually have 1 question about this: How do couples deal with the emotional attachment that comes with "crushes" or whatever? I mean, obviously to choose an open marriage over simply divorcing there is still a connection you want to maintain with your spouse, so how are the non-sexual ramifications dealt with?
14
@14
I know it seems hard, but you have to deal with what is real--people get crushes. For me I decided long ago that love isn't bad, no matter where it's directed. A person can't help having a crush--they happen. And as long as I'm with someone considerate and who I trust to be respectful, then I'm not going to blame them for those feelings. What I can hold them accountable for is how they treat me, but not how they feel about someone else. I think jealousy is an emotion we all should learn to deal with--somehow we are allowed to be immature with jealousy, as if it's romantic. I know a certain amount is also normal and in low doses can be spicey, but we should be responsible as to how we deal with it. People act so badly in the name of their jealousy--and they call it romance and love. They aren't required in our society to act maturely if they can say it's about love. They can act like two year olds and justify it with the word "love". But that isn't the same as being really caring about someone. I don't act out of insecurity when it comes to my relationships. Even if I have insecurities, I'm not going to base how I treat others on those insecurities. And pretty much it works. I've never ever worried about husband or boyfriend leaving me. I don't care if they have a fling with someone younger and hotter--I'm not the one they leave. And make no mistake--this is not me feeling I'm being walked over. On the contrary it's a matter of confidence. I may not be confident in some other areas in life--but I am with relationships--and I think not blaming people for their attractions and crushes makes for some healthy and strong bonding. Oh yeah--once more--though I can't hold someone accountable as to their attractions or crushes, you should definitely hold them accountable for how they treat you. So this all works as long as people are mutually respectful and caring people. Maybe not so much if you hook up with jerks.
More...
I know it seems hard, but you have to deal with what is real--people get crushes. For me I decided long ago that love isn't bad, no matter where it's directed. A person can't help having a crush--they happen. And as long as I'm with someone considerate and who I trust to be respectful, then I'm not going to blame them for those feelings. What I can hold them accountable for is how they treat me, but not how they feel about someone else. I think jealousy is an emotion we all should learn to deal with--somehow we are allowed to be immature with jealousy, as if it's romantic. I know a certain amount is also normal and in low doses can be spicey, but we should be responsible as to how we deal with it. People act so badly in the name of their jealousy--and they call it romance and love. They aren't required in our society to act maturely if they can say it's about love. They can act like two year olds and justify it with the word "love". But that isn't the same as being really caring about someone. I don't act out of insecurity when it comes to my relationships. Even if I have insecurities, I'm not going to base how I treat others on those insecurities. And pretty much it works. I've never ever worried about husband or boyfriend leaving me. I don't care if they have a fling with someone younger and hotter--I'm not the one they leave. And make no mistake--this is not me feeling I'm being walked over. On the contrary it's a matter of confidence. I may not be confident in some other areas in life--but I am with relationships--and I think not blaming people for their attractions and crushes makes for some healthy and strong bonding. Oh yeah--once more--though I can't hold someone accountable as to their attractions or crushes, you should definitely hold them accountable for how they treat you. So this all works as long as people are mutually respectful and caring people. Maybe not so much if you hook up with jerks.
16
I will admit, that as I get older, it has become less important to me, what society thinks and feels is the best way I should live my life, and more important to me how I think and feel is the best way to live my life.
17
I get crushes just like anyone else but that's no big deal. Just recognize it for what it is and take steps to minimize/eliminate it (open marriage is absolutely not something I have permission for). Being committed is an ongoing choice and requires continuous work.
19
@14- i wish i could get my boyfriend to listen to you and BODST! i honestly think our relationship would stand a MUCH better chance of survival if he thought that way. Unfortunately, he grew up in a Catholic Republican household and never really broke free of that line of thinking sexually the way I have. To make matters even worse, I have a ridiculously high and kinky sex drive while he is always tired after work and won't even leave the lights on!!
20
@3: If you're looking for a "sex positive" therapist, go find one at Wet Spot. Half the aging, angry goth chicks who go to the BDSM night there claim they're "licensed therapists". Of course, most of them are basket cases who never worked out their own issues, and got their credentials from some joke of a college like Antioch, so buyer beware.
21
I hope she writes back when her husband leaves her for one of his "dates." If the poor baby was "dying of monogamy," why didn't they try role playing before "branching out"?
23
Thank you for this. I really appreciate it. So many times people compare the worst of open relationships with the best of closed ones. It just doesn't make sense. Relationships can be hard - any kind of relationships. It's all about choice and love, honesty and understanding. Loving more than one person is as natural as loving one. It's all about what works for you and your partner(s).
Best,
Jenny Block
Author of "Open: Love, Sex, and Life in an Open Marriage"
www.jennyonthepage.com
Best,
Jenny Block
Author of "Open: Love, Sex, and Life in an Open Marriage"
www.jennyonthepage.com
24
In my experience, crushes do nothing but make the current relationship hella complicated... What if your crush likes you back? What if he'll only date you if you are single? Do you then leave your current partner? What if your crush likes you back, you do the whole open thing, and then he dumps you? Then you are left with feelings of rejection that your CURRENT partner must deal with, even though THEY did nothing to cause them, and perhaps isn't eager to see you hurt again and again when you already have this great person right here NOT rejecting you.
This is a sterotype, I admit, but the only open relationships I have seen work out in the long term (1 out of 6) was between a completely self-absorbed, oblivious drama queen and a whipped, shy, and welcome-matted guy. It seems, to me, in open relationships, one partner must always be the rock while the other flits around fulfilling THEIR desires with only the barest realization these desires might be counter productive to a lasting relationship. I suppose in a way, it's satisfying for both of them... one partner gets to be selfish, the other gets to play the martyr, or they switch off, but I can't say it seems particularly healthy. Great on paper, though.
This is a sterotype, I admit, but the only open relationships I have seen work out in the long term (1 out of 6) was between a completely self-absorbed, oblivious drama queen and a whipped, shy, and welcome-matted guy. It seems, to me, in open relationships, one partner must always be the rock while the other flits around fulfilling THEIR desires with only the barest realization these desires might be counter productive to a lasting relationship. I suppose in a way, it's satisfying for both of them... one partner gets to be selfish, the other gets to play the martyr, or they switch off, but I can't say it seems particularly healthy. Great on paper, though.
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