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News & ArtsThursday, May 14, 2009
History A Quick Thought
Posted by Charles Mudede on Thu, May 14, 2009 at 12:33 PM
As a boy, the thing I found most amazing about my white friends is that they could call their parents by their first names. Not mom or dad but John or Ellen. Even now, I do not have the guts or nerve to call my father by his first name, Ebenezer. Only if I discovered that he was a murderer or rapist would I call him Ebenezer. I must admit that way back then, as a boy, when visiting, say, Emanuel Sinclair (his mother was a feminist filmmaker) or Robert Bertram (his father manufactured army beds), when they spoke to their parents in such direct terms, it was very impressive indeed! It indicated that white people had really broken from the eternal traditions and laws of the family. White people had in my boy eyes managed to flatten the family hierarchy. Their home life was a democratic substance out which no Antigone could emerge.
1
I'm white and I never called my parents by their first names. No white person I know has ever called their parents by their first names.
Maybe this is..... just you?
Maybe this is..... just you?
2
I know one white person who's ever called her parents by their first names. That's one out of approximately 20 close friends. Not exactly a trend.
3
I have never and would never call my parents by their first name (I'm white, BTW). And practically none of my white friends did either... In fact, it's oftentimes a stretch to even call my friends' parents by their first name (for some it's easy, and for others it's more difficult, perhaps because they're more formal).
I don't, however, have any problem calling my in-laws by their first names. It helps that my father-in-law is my husband's step-father, so everyone just called him "Dave" anyways...
I don't, however, have any problem calling my in-laws by their first names. It helps that my father-in-law is my husband's step-father, so everyone just called him "Dave" anyways...
4
I have no clue what you are talking about ... unless they were step parents. You still don't get first name privelage.
5
How old are you Charles? I wonder if this was some sort of late 60s/early 70s thing where white parents were trying to be less formal and more "friend-like" to their kids...
6
Stereotype much? I don't know ANYONE who calls their parents by their first name. I'm white, btw. Sounds like a lot of pish posh nonsense to me.
7
or maybe it was european thing or a class thing. but i also remember my white friends in DC doing the same thing in the early 80s.
8
That wouldn't fly at my house either...the only time I've ever called my mom by her first name is in a crowd of people where "mom" isn't distinctive enough. My dad's response to being called by his first name would be, "who do you think you're talking to, boy?"
White, 30 years old, from Texas.
White, 30 years old, from Texas.
9
Calling your parents by their first names isn't something I've seen either in my own (white) family nor in the several communities in which I've lived (Tex.,Okla., Ark., La., Mi.).
The only time I've seen or know kids who addressed their parents by first names were ones that had parents who considered themselves to be particularly progressive ('oh, we tell our kids to address us as adults and use our names') or wealthier than their peers, and a bit snobbish, who would do that to show the power dynamic they had with their parents (needless to say, these kids were driving the show).
The only exceptions were for kids who had more than one parent of a given gender (usually step-parents), and the first names would be used to avoid confusion since calling out "mom" or "dad" could get more than one head to turn (the other exception is at large family gatherings where the kid wants to make sure that the right 'mom' or 'dad' responds).
The only time I've seen or know kids who addressed their parents by first names were ones that had parents who considered themselves to be particularly progressive ('oh, we tell our kids to address us as adults and use our names') or wealthier than their peers, and a bit snobbish, who would do that to show the power dynamic they had with their parents (needless to say, these kids were driving the show).
The only exceptions were for kids who had more than one parent of a given gender (usually step-parents), and the first names would be used to avoid confusion since calling out "mom" or "dad" could get more than one head to turn (the other exception is at large family gatherings where the kid wants to make sure that the right 'mom' or 'dad' responds).
10
The only people I've known who called their parents by their first names (of any color) were the ones with "Cool" parents. The kind that would be feminist filmmakers. The ones that would let you drink in their basement or smoke pot "because you're gonna do it anyway, and oh hey, that joint is way too loose."
I'm guessing this is one of those "most ultra-liberal/hippie types are white, but not all white parents are ultra-liberal/hippie types" sorta venn diagrams that has a tiny little overlap of "parents who let their kids call them by their first names."
I'm guessing this is one of those "most ultra-liberal/hippie types are white, but not all white parents are ultra-liberal/hippie types" sorta venn diagrams that has a tiny little overlap of "parents who let their kids call them by their first names."
12
I actually like it when my kids call me by my first name, mostly for the reaction it gets from strangers. I'm Caucasian but my kids are mixed African American/Caucasian.
14
Actually, yes ... the few white friends I can think of whose parents I have also met all call their parents by their first name, or if their children don't, insist nieces, nephews, and their children's friends do. Are they cool? I dunno. Sort of? They either work in the government or the arts.
Calling adults by their first names would definitely not fly in my Chinese family, and in none of my Chinese friends' homes either. I insist on addressing my boyfriends' parents by their surnames, and they make fun of me for it.
I'm 23.
Calling adults by their first names would definitely not fly in my Chinese family, and in none of my Chinese friends' homes either. I insist on addressing my boyfriends' parents by their surnames, and they make fun of me for it.
I'm 23.
15
I'd never call my parents or my friends' parents by their first names. It'd be uncomfortable. But at times, so is Mr. or Mrs. ___.
I just avoid the situation entirely if I can. I've felt really weird before when my friends or acquaintances call my parents by their first names, though I'm sure my parents didn't care. If I did it, it'd sounds weird or unnatural to both parties.
I just avoid the situation entirely if I can. I've felt really weird before when my friends or acquaintances call my parents by their first names, though I'm sure my parents didn't care. If I did it, it'd sounds weird or unnatural to both parties.
16
I'm with 1. The only person I know who calls a parent by their first name is a stepchild.
(and in that case, IMHO, that's entirely proper.)
(and in that case, IMHO, that's entirely proper.)
18
I never called my parents by their first name... Ever.
Oh, wait, I'm Hispanic...
S'pose that ethnic category doesn't count in the "black/white is all I see" Charles Mudede dream world...
Oh, wait, I'm Hispanic...
S'pose that ethnic category doesn't count in the "black/white is all I see" Charles Mudede dream world...
20
I know what you mean. I had friends who called their parents by their first names. It struck me as civilised and impressed me that parents could interact with their children as other humans and friends. My parents always talked at me. I don't think I was ever considered important enough to listen to under any circumstance.
21
When I called my mother "mom" whilst shopping one day, she shook me violently by the shoulders and hissed through gritted teeth "don't EVER call me MOM in public again!"
Luckily my mom's name was Bee-Atch!!!
Luckily my mom's name was Bee-Atch!!!
22
Yeah, "Mom" wasn't allowed in my (white) household, either. Had to be the formal "Mother". I would never have considered using her first name. I had a friend (white) who had to call her parents "Sir" and "Ma'am".
Wow! This must mean you can't make accurate sweeping generalizations about white people any more than about black people, or gay people, or straight people, or poly people, or monogamous people, or women, or men - imagine that!
Wow! This must mean you can't make accurate sweeping generalizations about white people any more than about black people, or gay people, or straight people, or poly people, or monogamous people, or women, or men - imagine that!
23
I have lived in WA, KY, CA, and PA, and I have had the good fortune to meet a LOT of people and their parents....I know precisely two people out of hundreds who address their parents by their first names. I have always found this practice of theirs to be pretentious and disrespectful, especially since one guy (who is half Haitian) does it specifically because his mother hates it (his dad doesn't seem to care). The other guy (white) does it because he has never gotten along with his parents and addressing them by their first names is one way of keeping an emotional distance from them.
But you speak about being impressed as a boy. What are your impressions now? And aren't you a father? How would you feel if your offspring addressed you as Charles?
But you speak about being impressed as a boy. What are your impressions now? And aren't you a father? How would you feel if your offspring addressed you as Charles?
24
My parents were great - listened to me, liberal, hippies, etc. We did and do interact well. They're Mom and Dad. Period. They always will be - the naming convention doesn't dictate the power structure unless you let it. Never would have occurred to me to call them anything else. Frankly, would have made me uncomfortable.
25
This is classic Chaz - he looks at a tiny microcosm of the world and then makes sweeping generalizations about everything and everybody based on that observation. Why am I not surprised?
26
I can't think of anyone when I was growing up who called their parents by their first names. I grew up calling my grandfather by his first name, but EVERYONE called him that, and I believe that started after he had retired. He was also a very imposing man, and I don't think anyone would get the idea that the family hierarchy had been damaged by it.
My mom had two sets of friends when I was a child who asked that I call them by their first names. Yes, they were white, and yes, it was a little weird - but even they had their own kids call them Mom and Dad.
My mom had two sets of friends when I was a child who asked that I call them by their first names. Yes, they were white, and yes, it was a little weird - but even they had their own kids call them Mom and Dad.
27
Yup. Out of many I knew precisely two families with kids calling parents by first names; yes they were ultra cool, e.g., letting an 11th grade daughter have the boyfriend come over to sleep with her and smoke pot. Also strong fellow travelers in earlier days. But in no way a norm -- that was the point, you see? -- and in no way does this "nominal democracy" eliminate family issues or reality of parenthood.
30
One more caucasoid counter-example. My son started calling us by first names when he was about 3. I thought it was cute, but it didn't last long - he just switched to mom and dad on his own. OTOH, I don't know any parents of any color who prefer Mr. or M(r)s. from other people's kids. They all seem to prefer first names.
"*Mister* Pox is my father, kid!"
"*Mister* Pox is my father, kid!"
31
Didn't Dan say he lets his son call him by his first name? But that's to eliminate the Dad/Dad confusion, so you can't really argue that it's pretentious.
32
It's never even occurred to me that I need to worry about whether I should address my parents by name in case I discover they're murderers and rapists. I've got some thinking to do.
33
@22 - The kids of a couple that my parents were very good friends with had to call their parents "sir" and "ma'am", too. They were white and Southern-ish. It always creeped me out and made me a little thankful that there wasn't that kind of extreme formality/power dynamic in my house.
Sometimes, I wonder what my friend's kids will call me when they're a bit older... I always called my parents friends "Mrs and Mr", but "Mrs X" seems really strange to me. First name seems the most natural, but I wonder if the kids will think it's weird...
Sometimes, I wonder what my friend's kids will call me when they're a bit older... I always called my parents friends "Mrs and Mr", but "Mrs X" seems really strange to me. First name seems the most natural, but I wonder if the kids will think it's weird...
34
As a child, I called my mom by her first name once...and was promptly grounded for insolence. PS: I'm white.
35
Wow, Mudede. Your sweeping style is often something I easily roll my eyes at but this -- this is pretty amazing.
I'm white, 34, and would never have dreamed of calling any of my elders, family or no, by their first names.
Could it be this is cultural, rather than racial? I don't know your background or where you are from, but to declare this a racial characteristic is above and beyond a lack of tact. I can only imagine the shitstorm if you were a white author making the same generalisations of a minority race.
I'm white, 34, and would never have dreamed of calling any of my elders, family or no, by their first names.
Could it be this is cultural, rather than racial? I don't know your background or where you are from, but to declare this a racial characteristic is above and beyond a lack of tact. I can only imagine the shitstorm if you were a white author making the same generalisations of a minority race.
36
My parents are Mom and Dad. I tried a spat of teenage rebellion once at a misguided 14 and called my mom by her first name and she informed me that she didnt go through 9 months of suffering and bloating and 14 gruling hours of labor to have some little shit call her Julie. She was my mom and she would always be my mom cause she brought me into this world and she could take me outta it... Needless to say it made quite an impression on me and the other folks at the grocery store that day. (I love you Mom!)
37
I'm a late-20s white girl, and I've always called my folks "Mom" and "Dad," respectively. I tried calling my Dad by his name once, when I was about 3, and I got a very stern talking-to. But aunts, uncles and family friends were always a first-name basis (perhaps preceded by "auntie" or "uncle," but always with the first name in there). I've always thought it showed a lack of respect when people call their parents by their first names, but that might only be based on my (limited) frame of reference.
38
I have never, EVER called my mother by her first name, and have only called my father by his first name in jest (we are very jokey and my dad has a good sense of humor). I also don't know a single white person who calls their parents by their first name. I have called friends' parents by their first names, but only when they have specifically asked me to, because they feel weird having a 35-yr-old call them "Mr. or Mrs. So-in-so".
39
After my parents got divorced I called them by their names to remind them that neither had that authority anymore, due to their chosen rejections of the title of husband and wife. One of them hit me.
40
The only family I knew where that flew were mixed race Hispanic/White, and the parents were super uber-liberal hippy types.
Right up until they discovered Jesus, and then went from the ultra-liberal permissive parents to rigidly strict disciplinarians who demanded their daughters call them Sir and Ma'am overnight.
So, no. Not a white thing.
Right up until they discovered Jesus, and then went from the ultra-liberal permissive parents to rigidly strict disciplinarians who demanded their daughters call them Sir and Ma'am overnight.
So, no. Not a white thing.
41
I tried to call my dad by his first name in a letter once, after I learned that a friend of mine addressed his parents that way and spoke glowingly of how it helped equalize the power dynamic between them. I received a post-it note back in the mail stating that he would not have any discussion with me unless I called him "Dad". So much for equal power relations. He never could let other people around him share power. Which is too bad, he's pretty lonely now. :>(
42
I have to agree with the "It's a uber-progressive, hippie trend of the 70's" vibe on this thread. I knew a few kids who called their parents by their first names, most of the adults claimed it was because they were "progressive" and rejecting "out-modded social constructs" and similar bull shit. Mostly it was because they didn't have a real interest in being parents. Some because they didn't want to be authoritarian and dictatorial. Others, because they couldn't stand the fact their kid was a reminder they were over 30 (and no longer young and cool) and for the better part of a decade they'd spouted the stupid line "Never trust anyone over 30." Those are the ones who just about crap themselves whenever their grandkids call them "granny" and "gramps". It's hard to be a 60+ hippie and constantly reminded you haven't been "cool" or "hip" for decades.
43
it would probably scandalize and cause dismissal if it was a white person saying similar sweeping generalizations about blacks. this double-standard is often true of how we pc liberals talk about republicans too. not that that will stop me... hear the one about sarah palin? i read it in the stranger voting guide last fall and it still kills at parties.
45
My grandmother always insisted her children and grandchildren call her by her first name. She said it was harder to whine. Everyone else could call her "Mrs. Bufo."
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