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News & ArtsThursday, May 7, 2009
Homo / Religion What He Said
Posted by Dan Savage on Thu, May 7, 2009 at 12:16 PM
John on the release of a second topless snap of Miss CA:
Yes, schadenfreude. But more importantly, the hypocrisy of the religious right, and all extreme moralists, is once against being exposed (no pun intended). From David Vitter paying hookers while signing onto legislation to "protect marriage," to Larry Craig being anti-gay while tapping his feet in men's rooms, to evangelical preachers who visit male masseurs with slippery fingers. And let's not even get started on anti-gay religious right leaders who set off gaydar ten miles away. It's not just that all of these people are moral hypocrites. It's looking as though their moral hypocrisy might even be the cause of their personal moral crusades. Are they so ashamed of themselves that they strike out at others?Regardless, Miss California is not long for this crown. Though by continuing to use her as their spokesperson, the religious right does take a big step towards legitimizing soft porn, so it's not all bad.
In other Miss CA news...
So how does a beauty queen turn into the poster child against gay marriage? In the case of Miss California Carrie Prejean, the answer may lie in an ugly divorce that may have cemented her views on gay relationships. Carrie's parents filed for divorce in 1988 and the divorce and custody fights went on for more than a decade — it was a divorce filled with homosexual allegations hurled by both sides.
Wait—I thought Miss CA was raised in a Christian home that instilled Christian values like denying basic civil rights to gays because homosexuality is wrong (but one that gave Carrie a pass on posing for topless snaps). And now TMZ tells me that Miss CA's parents are divorced? Not in the eyes of the Lord they're not. Divorce is against the bible. And the bible says that adulterers—which is what Miss CA's parents are, since Christ doesn't recognize divorce—have to be stoned to death. So Carrie's parents have to die. Sorry, no offense, just the way I was raised. And I realize that murdering divorced people isn't politically correct and all, but, like Miss CA, I'm way more concerned with being biblically correct than being politically correct.
Okay, now who wants to throw the first stone?
1
Throwing stones is a way of life here in America, and all the world over. The only time it's wrong is when you're throwing them at believers.
4
@2
Nice Python ref!
Dan, why no link to the racy photos? I'm tempted to defile myself to her godly image.
Nice Python ref!
Dan, why no link to the racy photos? I'm tempted to defile myself to her godly image.
5
@2 You said it... *throws stone at Renton Mike*
Sorry I cant help myself.
Honestly I dont think there is a rock big enough to ever stop this shit parade...
Sorry I cant help myself.
Honestly I dont think there is a rock big enough to ever stop this shit parade...
6
We shouldn't really be supporting www.thedirty.com
The website is homophobe central, regardless of what Nik Ritchie (the webmaster) is trying to portray right now.
He constantly and consistently ridicules gays and calls people faggots in his posts.
The website is homophobe central, regardless of what Nik Ritchie (the webmaster) is trying to portray right now.
He constantly and consistently ridicules gays and calls people faggots in his posts.
12
Dan, I am not a Biblical scholar, but I'm pretty sure that Jesus did not equate divorce with adultery. He equates remarriage after divorce with adultery.
Just for fun, tell the traditionalists that gays just want the same rights as serial adulterers like Newt and Rudy. You know, the right to marry.
Just for fun, tell the traditionalists that gays just want the same rights as serial adulterers like Newt and Rudy. You know, the right to marry.
13
Our Lady, you're the best mom EVER.
I hope you get something from Kay Jewelers or something this Mother's Day.
I hope you get something from Kay Jewelers or something this Mother's Day.
14
Dan, you have a real tin ear when it comes to gloating about the family breakups of your 'enemies'.
Anyone with half a heart would be saddened by her painful family history and would see why she might cling to a traditional view of marriage.
And the common Liberal restrain of "you aren't perfect (you have a divorce or gay child or posed topless or have pimples...) therefore you have no moral authority really doesn't go far in the real world.
Most everyone who is not a puritanical judgemental narrowminded whiny shrieking bitch realizes than everyone makes mistakes.
The contrast between Hilton and Carrie is, as Gallagher pointed out last nite, straight from central casting. And it don't make the gays look good.
The more people pile on the more sympathy she gathers.
The pageant officials look like total classless bitches and if they pull the title it will make her a martyr to conservative free speech stifled by out of control radical left PC thought control Nazis (OH YEAH- I said NAZI !!)
I realize this will all mean nothing to slog readers who lap up every drop of the venom and spite and sniff around waiting for the next fix but in the real world it plays very different.
Plus the pictures are soft and really really nice...
Anyone with half a heart would be saddened by her painful family history and would see why she might cling to a traditional view of marriage.
And the common Liberal restrain of "you aren't perfect (you have a divorce or gay child or posed topless or have pimples...) therefore you have no moral authority really doesn't go far in the real world.
Most everyone who is not a puritanical judgemental narrowminded whiny shrieking bitch realizes than everyone makes mistakes.
The contrast between Hilton and Carrie is, as Gallagher pointed out last nite, straight from central casting. And it don't make the gays look good.
The more people pile on the more sympathy she gathers.
The pageant officials look like total classless bitches and if they pull the title it will make her a martyr to conservative free speech stifled by out of control radical left PC thought control Nazis (OH YEAH- I said NAZI !!)
I realize this will all mean nothing to slog readers who lap up every drop of the venom and spite and sniff around waiting for the next fix but in the real world it plays very different.
Plus the pictures are soft and really really nice...
16
This again? I find something truly creepy about the obsessive need to shame Miss California. Could we get some fucking perspective, please? Her position on gay marriage is essentially the same as Obama's! (Which is also wrong.)
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@14: "Anyone with half a heart would be saddened by her painful family history"
Ah, that is sad. Clearly, the right thing to do here is to stay quiet and shake our heads in sadness and empathy while she attacks people's civil rights.
Ah, that is sad. Clearly, the right thing to do here is to stay quiet and shake our heads in sadness and empathy while she attacks people's civil rights.
20
Still no explicit photos, that I can tell, but this nugget about her divorcing parents is more revealing. I feel sorry for her, and all kids who are caught up in that acrimonious stuff, but she shouldn't take it out on others.
23
Although its super fun to bash this unintelligent beauty-queen, I have to quickly interject that Paul, in response to confusion over Jesus' thoughts on divorce, laid out several reasons why divorce might be justified in 1 & 2Corinthians.
Basically, Jesus said you can't leave your partner to go have sex with another partner. that's the same as adultery. But if your partner is sleeping around, you have the right to leave him or her. There are a few other reasons that are o.k. too.
i know your not Christian and probably don't care, but open-minded Christian's do in fact exist, and some even occasionally read this blog! :)
Basically, Jesus said you can't leave your partner to go have sex with another partner. that's the same as adultery. But if your partner is sleeping around, you have the right to leave him or her. There are a few other reasons that are o.k. too.
i know your not Christian and probably don't care, but open-minded Christian's do in fact exist, and some even occasionally read this blog! :)
24
19
Had she ever spoken out on the subject before AssHole asked her about it in the Pageant? The "Gay" community created this martyr and is keeping it going.
Had she ever spoken out on the subject before AssHole asked her about it in the Pageant? The "Gay" community created this martyr and is keeping it going.
25
Anyone with a "half a heart" would also empathize with two consenting adults who love each other, want to marry and enjoy the same civil rights as others.
27
Justifying hate through the oppression or tragic circumstances you experience is negligable. Thats like saying blacks have a right to deny gays rights, becuase they were discriminated against. It is also important to note that my parents went through one hell of a nasty and violent divorce. I support the right of all individuals to marry the partner of their choosing given they are of an age of consent and yada yada yada. One could also say that since Carrie Prejean has not seen a successful marraige she is not qulaified to speak to traditional marraige, just as the Palin's can not speak to abstinence due to Bristols politically charged vagina.
29
"You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY'; but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."
Matthew 5:27-28
"But every woman who has her head uncovered while praying or prophesying disgraces her head, for she is one and the same as the woman whose head is shaved. For if a woman does not cover her head, let her also have her hair cut off; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, let her cover her head."
1 Corinthians 11:5-6
It sounds like this whole beauty pageant, and especially the swimsuit portion, rest on pretty shaky ground Biblically. How do you feel about participating in such an un-Christian pageant, Miss California? Any thoughts?
Matthew 5:27-28
"But every woman who has her head uncovered while praying or prophesying disgraces her head, for she is one and the same as the woman whose head is shaved. For if a woman does not cover her head, let her also have her hair cut off; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, let her cover her head."
1 Corinthians 11:5-6
It sounds like this whole beauty pageant, and especially the swimsuit portion, rest on pretty shaky ground Biblically. How do you feel about participating in such an un-Christian pageant, Miss California? Any thoughts?
31
@27
"That's like saying blacks have a right to deny gays rights, because they were discriminated against."
Isn't that Loveschild's whole platform that she stands on?
"That's like saying blacks have a right to deny gays rights, because they were discriminated against."
Isn't that Loveschild's whole platform that she stands on?
32
The "dumb beauty queen" argument where people say "you can't disagree with her, that's piling on, she's just a beauty queen!!!" forgets that this is a contest for a scholarship.
34
@31 Loveschild's platform is based upon the misinterpretations of the Bible. But then again Christians constantly forget that our Lord and Savior was worngfully arrested, tortured, and killed for speaking peace and having some different views on some things. Hard to persecute if you remember this little fact. But hey thats why I have trouble calling myself a Christian. I am down right ashamed.
35
i really do feel sorry for this kid. she's probably not all that bad a person, just a little fucked up emotionally. and she was put on the spot with a pretty tough question for a beauty queen to answer. i mean, your supposed to ask these chicks benign questions like "what do you like most about world peace", or "what's your position on unicorns", shit like that. she got asked a question that required either a brilliantly nuanced answer or a politically charged one. and while most pageant contestants say nothing substantial ever, she actually said something that pissed a lot of people off. still, in that moment of panic when she had to choose her words, she definitely backed the wrong horse.
38
Just a quick question... If the pics where taken when she was 17 doesnt that mean that her "good christian" parents had to sign a consent form and be present at the shoot? In my experience when acting or modeling as a minor an adult/Parent has to give consent and remain on the set for the safty of the minor in question... SO uhhh, aint that a bit umm whats the world oh hypa-fuckin-critical??!?
39
@35
Pretty much agree with you. Also very much with Dan. I feel bad that she had no idea what she was getting into. Did you read her interview with Greta Van Sustern on Fox News? She's never thought twice about gay rights - she's completely ignorant about it. Yet she did decide to make herself a poster child for campaigning against gay rights, so she deserves to get torn apart for her hypocrisy. Doesn't make it not sad to watch her get torn to shreds.
Pretty much agree with you. Also very much with Dan. I feel bad that she had no idea what she was getting into. Did you read her interview with Greta Van Sustern on Fox News? She's never thought twice about gay rights - she's completely ignorant about it. Yet she did decide to make herself a poster child for campaigning against gay rights, so she deserves to get torn apart for her hypocrisy. Doesn't make it not sad to watch her get torn to shreds.
41
A few points.
1) How very sad that she had to endure her parents painful divorce.
2) After several years of writing Bible studies, I can't recall any passage that said death was the penalty for divorce. God hates divorce, yes. Divorce forces the wife to commit adultry when she gets remarried, yes.
3) I'm not buying that she is seventeen in the photos. The pagent reported they paid for her augmentation to balance her figure, increasing her to a 34 C cup, so that she would have more confidence. The side view of the breast, doesn't look smaller than a C cup. That's just my opinion, as a former model and one time beauty pagent contender. I could be wrong about it.
1) How very sad that she had to endure her parents painful divorce.
2) After several years of writing Bible studies, I can't recall any passage that said death was the penalty for divorce. God hates divorce, yes. Divorce forces the wife to commit adultry when she gets remarried, yes.
3) I'm not buying that she is seventeen in the photos. The pagent reported they paid for her augmentation to balance her figure, increasing her to a 34 C cup, so that she would have more confidence. The side view of the breast, doesn't look smaller than a C cup. That's just my opinion, as a former model and one time beauty pagent contender. I could be wrong about it.
42
I'm going to take the high road here and not discriminate against her boobs just because she's a hater.
45
Maybe, instead of opposing gay marriage, she just meant to oppose the marriage of a gay man (her dad) with a lesbian (her mom).
46
I'm going to discriminate against them because they're low quality fakes stuck to an emaciated Barbie doll. Skeletor's got more meat on him.
47
Something John Stewart noted when Joe the Plumber became a public figure and then was discovered not to be licensed:
Entering the public domain in a controversial arena gives the press permission to crawl up your ass with a microscope.
Yeah, I think those were his words.
Entering the public domain in a controversial arena gives the press permission to crawl up your ass with a microscope.
Yeah, I think those were his words.
49
"On this point, I wanted to tell you guys about a discussion I had with a friend a couple of days ago about ERW....
So, I met up with a friend I used to work with who was laid off by ERW [recently]. He was actually XXXXX's direct supervisor until that point, a Field Organizer. We talked for several hours and he just totally went off on ERW top-down organizing style.
Part of his job was to try and organize things with smaller groups around the state. He told me that the problem is that ERW continually fucks people over because they're only really concerned with where the money is coming from, though they put up a front that they want to help the community. As an effect, he said that he'd have people from these different community groups calling him all the time cussing him out because ERW would last minute decide that plans with a certain group weren't profitable, and would just get the order to ditch out on them. He said that it felt like 80% of the groups they would work with would be so angry at them, because they were really only worried about the most profitable 20%: the big donaters.
He also said that he felt bad for the people that worked there because they're massively overworked and underpaid, working on average 60 hours a week, and more during big events. The bosses don't listen to the suggestions of any of the volunteers, but give orders to them based upon the wants of those with the dollars.
So basically I'm saying that our assessment of ERW as a top-down, conservative organization is pretty accurate, straight from the horse's mouth itself. Should we still work with them, yes. But should we be prepared for them to fuck us over if we can't bring them money? Yes. Let's just be as careful with them as possible. This is why I personally prefer a grassroots approach in which all of our opinions are valid and help shape the outward focus of the groups' activities. We're not tied down to donations, and they are. This is also why they're not prepared to "rock the boat", and why we have a very important role to play in building this movement."
More...
So, I met up with a friend I used to work with who was laid off by ERW [recently]. He was actually XXXXX's direct supervisor until that point, a Field Organizer. We talked for several hours and he just totally went off on ERW top-down organizing style.
Part of his job was to try and organize things with smaller groups around the state. He told me that the problem is that ERW continually fucks people over because they're only really concerned with where the money is coming from, though they put up a front that they want to help the community. As an effect, he said that he'd have people from these different community groups calling him all the time cussing him out because ERW would last minute decide that plans with a certain group weren't profitable, and would just get the order to ditch out on them. He said that it felt like 80% of the groups they would work with would be so angry at them, because they were really only worried about the most profitable 20%: the big donaters.
He also said that he felt bad for the people that worked there because they're massively overworked and underpaid, working on average 60 hours a week, and more during big events. The bosses don't listen to the suggestions of any of the volunteers, but give orders to them based upon the wants of those with the dollars.
So basically I'm saying that our assessment of ERW as a top-down, conservative organization is pretty accurate, straight from the horse's mouth itself. Should we still work with them, yes. But should we be prepared for them to fuck us over if we can't bring them money? Yes. Let's just be as careful with them as possible. This is why I personally prefer a grassroots approach in which all of our opinions are valid and help shape the outward focus of the groups' activities. We're not tied down to donations, and they are. This is also why they're not prepared to "rock the boat", and why we have a very important role to play in building this movement."
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