Find Your Valentine
Slog
News & ArtsThursday, May 7, 2009
Homo End White Marriage
Posted by Dan Savage on Thu, May 7, 2009 at 11:05 AM
You know we've reached the end times of the anti-gay marriage movement when they start making arguments like this: we can't let gay people marry because then African Americans will think there's something gay about getting married—and you know how those people are about gay stuff. So says Heather Mac Donald at Secular Right:
It is no secret that resistance to homosexuality is highest among the black population (though probably other ethnic minorities are close contenders). I fear that it will be harder than usual to persuade black men of the obligation to marry the mother of their children if the inevitable media saturation coverage associates marriage with homosexuals. Is the availability of homosexual marriage a valid reason to shun the institution? No, but that doesn’t make the reaction any less likely.What are the chances that gay marriage would further doom marriage among blacks? I don’t know. Again, if someone can persuade me that the chances are zero, then I would be much more sanguine. But anything more than zero, I am reluctant to risk.
So... unless someone can convince Heather—an opponent of gay marriage—that there's a zero chance that marriage equality will "further doom" the institution of marriage in African American communities then, gee, we just can't risk it. And if you can't prove that negative, well, sorry. Think of all the (fatherless black) children.
Hm. It seems to me, Heather, that the maybe the real problem with the black family—what's depressing black marriage rates—isn't poverty, institutional racism, crime-plagued inner cities, sub-standard housing, the eeeeeeeevils of rap music (sarcasm, people), the glorification of thug culture, and the lack of access to primary medical care, birth control, abortion services, etc., etc., but the fact that straight white people can get legally married right now. I mean, the saturation coverage given to a white celebrity's wedding has to be reaching African Americans—they watch TV, they see the covers of the tabloids at the supermarket. And maybe all the straight white people getting married has created a fatal associated in the minds of African Americans between marriage and whiteness, or "acting white"—and you how poor blacks feel about "acting white." Seems to me that if you want to do everything you can to promote marriage among blacks, you would start by banning straight white marriage. And unless someone can prove to me that banning straight white marriage wouldn't improve marriage rates among blacks then I don't think we can risk even one more straight white marriage. Think of the children.
4
Don't worry-
Dan can explain to all the Brothas that marriage is not Gay.
Don't forget to tell them about the mutual masterbation and anal sex, also, Dan...
Dan can explain to all the Brothas that marriage is not Gay.
Don't forget to tell them about the mutual masterbation and anal sex, also, Dan...
5
Its just a matter of adapting to the labels; for example, instead of calling me his "wife" when with his co-workers of color the hubby says I'm a gonna be his "baby mamma" and they all come back sit down on the group W bench and have a wonderful time playing the pencils and filling out the forms...
*headdesk*
*headdesk*
6
Jesus Christ -- I'm offended by this on so many levels: as an African American man, as a supporter of same-sex marriage, and as a basic thinking person. This argument is beyond insulting to African Americans, gays, and people of basic intelligence. I like to think that this tack is one of the last desperate flailings of the anti-gay marriage movement (as I'm so glad to see several states moving forward on this issue), but it's unfortunately likely this is just this single pundit's idiocy, unlikely to be embraced by the movement as a whole. If it were, though, that would seriously hurt the movement. Similar to how most everything the GOP does these days seems to damage them more.
8
It's times like these, when I am so glad that I don't care. We don't need to convince everybody of every thing. Just the ones who are going to vote on it.
9
Logic seems to escape these people - every issue is examined in a vacuum with just one variable. Apparently life is just too complicated to accept at face value.
10
Taking advice from Mr Savage or his pal Heather (who are the same thing with different masks on ) on African American issues is about as rational as taking advise from him on straight issues.
Here are you have 'friends' rev, be proud you're as good to them as a Kleenex is to someone suffering from allergies. Once they use you for your skin color to take on the banner of Civil Rights for themselves you will be discarded and reminded of what they really think of you.
Here are you have 'friends' rev, be proud you're as good to them as a Kleenex is to someone suffering from allergies. Once they use you for your skin color to take on the banner of Civil Rights for themselves you will be discarded and reminded of what they really think of you.
11
You know, when everything you say and do betrays your contempt for other human beings, your political end of the spectrum withers and dies. That's what is happening on the right. They intentionally courted racist and bigoted people with thinly veiled policies like being against affirmative action and hate crimes legislation, etc. And now we are to believe that they care about blacks so much that they want to protect them from gays. What idiotic trash!
12
Gee, and I was right about the predominantly white christian right using and abusing the african american community. The system of patronage is founded in this illusion that the african american community is getting equal purchase in a broader social agenda, when it's quite clear now that they're being used.
If anyone thinks that folks like Focus on the Family and the CWA are concerned one iota with the black community, they're mistaken. They're just using the black vote to create a solid and acerbic bloc against equality since, as white folks with a political agenda, they can't in one solid breath even begin to understand the currency of color when it comes to social issues. They need their own indentured servants to peddle "the minority perspective" as cover-fire.
Why do you think the first stop for Prop 8 supporters was the black church? Why do you think they've created a pavlovian response to "civil rights" by making people immediately think of the Civil Rights Movement in order to dismiss equality?
It's funny that something like this will be ignored by Loveschild, since, oh golly gosh, she's not being led around by the nose with talking points and outright lies, she's not being taken in by racists, she's just protecting marriage! She's not picking rhetorical cotton out in the fields, she's just saying how she feels, by way of neatly packaged soundbites sent down from Master Dobson.
Of course, folks on the other side of the aisle have long said that the christian rightists are by and large a racist, sexist and highly prejudiced group. Nobody listened.
If anyone thinks that folks like Focus on the Family and the CWA are concerned one iota with the black community, they're mistaken. They're just using the black vote to create a solid and acerbic bloc against equality since, as white folks with a political agenda, they can't in one solid breath even begin to understand the currency of color when it comes to social issues. They need their own indentured servants to peddle "the minority perspective" as cover-fire.
Why do you think the first stop for Prop 8 supporters was the black church? Why do you think they've created a pavlovian response to "civil rights" by making people immediately think of the Civil Rights Movement in order to dismiss equality?
It's funny that something like this will be ignored by Loveschild, since, oh golly gosh, she's not being led around by the nose with talking points and outright lies, she's not being taken in by racists, she's just protecting marriage! She's not picking rhetorical cotton out in the fields, she's just saying how she feels, by way of neatly packaged soundbites sent down from Master Dobson.
Of course, folks on the other side of the aisle have long said that the christian rightists are by and large a racist, sexist and highly prejudiced group. Nobody listened.
15
The African American community will be served by positive role models, social programs, and equality. Just as the Gay community will be served best byt positive role models, social programs, and equality. The white community used to be served by blacks (slaves) and entertained by gays (those that were to good at art and music to be killed right out). You can't trust your persecutor.
16
The "Black community" already has an epic fail when it comes to marriage and child raising, so no one else should be able to try on the off chance they fail even worse.
Got it.
Got it.
17
10, But with all the problems in your own community, one must wonder why you spend so much energy worrying about gay people? Gay marriage isn't why your demographic's men make up almost 50% of the prison population, while only being 13% of general population. But continue putting your efforts into keeping civil rights from other people. That'll fix it!
19
Dan,
Your posting, sarcasm notwithstanding is problematic on a few levels. MacDonald has a point (as do Kay Hymowitz, Bill Cosby, the late Daniel Patrick Moynihan and others). The African American family is in great turmoil. It must be addressed.
There just might be a correlation as MacDonald points out.
Your posting, sarcasm notwithstanding is problematic on a few levels. MacDonald has a point (as do Kay Hymowitz, Bill Cosby, the late Daniel Patrick Moynihan and others). The African American family is in great turmoil. It must be addressed.
There just might be a correlation as MacDonald points out.
20
@5 wow, how you got from this blog post to Alice's Restaurant, I'll never understand, but it was awesome.
22
@19
sure, the african american family is in great turmoil, but it sure as fuck isn't gay people's fault. and to state the obvious: WTF ABOUT AFRICAN AMERICAN GAYS!? they exist you know! should they suffer to not having the ability to marry because they are gay to help themselves because they are african american!?
The whole argument is retarded. the fact that one component of it is a fact (that the african american community has problems) doesn't make it less retarded. everyone has problems...even white christian evangelical straight people (see palin family...)
sure, the african american family is in great turmoil, but it sure as fuck isn't gay people's fault. and to state the obvious: WTF ABOUT AFRICAN AMERICAN GAYS!? they exist you know! should they suffer to not having the ability to marry because they are gay to help themselves because they are african american!?
The whole argument is retarded. the fact that one component of it is a fact (that the african american community has problems) doesn't make it less retarded. everyone has problems...even white christian evangelical straight people (see palin family...)
23
@12 and @15 FTW
As a gay African American man this woman's argument is beyond...something, I don't even have the words for it
As a gay African American man this woman's argument is beyond...something, I don't even have the words for it
24
Take it in slowly sugar, I know it's not easy when you believe otherwise but it's never too late to open one's eyes and in the end it'll do you more good:
"depressing black marriage rates"
"crime-plagued inner cities"
"glorification of thug culture"
"eeeeeeeevils of rap music"
"instead of calling me his "wife" " "I'm a gonna be his "baby mamma""
"come back sit down on the group W bench"
"We don't need to convince everybody of every thing. Just the ones who are going to vote on it."
"led around by the nose"
"picking rhetorical cotton"
These aren't the words of the Loveschild that had you 'boiling seething angry' by doing nor saying nothing to make you feel that way. Unless you're a pretender this should have you really feeling that way as it does me, but I've been fooled before here.
"depressing black marriage rates"
"crime-plagued inner cities"
"glorification of thug culture"
"eeeeeeeevils of rap music"
"instead of calling me his "wife" " "I'm a gonna be his "baby mamma""
"come back sit down on the group W bench"
"We don't need to convince everybody of every thing. Just the ones who are going to vote on it."
"led around by the nose"
"picking rhetorical cotton"
These aren't the words of the Loveschild that had you 'boiling seething angry' by doing nor saying nothing to make you feel that way. Unless you're a pretender this should have you really feeling that way as it does me, but I've been fooled before here.
25
@9: "Logic seems to escape these people"
Yup, that's what happens to anyone trying to justify a completely irrational position. This argument is so stupid it doesn't even deserve a rebuttal.
Yup, that's what happens to anyone trying to justify a completely irrational position. This argument is so stupid it doesn't even deserve a rebuttal.
26
@24
WHAT?
"These aren't the words of the Loveschild that had you 'boiling seething angry' by doing nor saying nothing to make you feel that way. Unless you're a pretender this should have you really feeling that way as it does me, but I've been fooled before here."
Again, WHAT?
WHAT?
"These aren't the words of the Loveschild that had you 'boiling seething angry' by doing nor saying nothing to make you feel that way. Unless you're a pretender this should have you really feeling that way as it does me, but I've been fooled before here."
Again, WHAT?
27
Great post! Ha ha! Oy.
Seems as though the fundie right's antigay political efforts consist of nothing more than whipping up antigay fear in every community they get a toehold in, not least in the African American community. Righties well realize that homophobia, being a fear now unsupported by anybody's actual experience, disappears if they just shut the fuck up. That's why they have the whole yappity-yap thing going on.
If that's the case, it may be that LC and her ilk are hooked on the sensation of this irrational fear, and have to constantly try to refresh it lest it diminish and they have to meet life on its own terms. That's why she's here every day, pretending her fear is some kind of love, and that our love is some kind of abomination. Poor delusional dear.
Seems as though the fundie right's antigay political efforts consist of nothing more than whipping up antigay fear in every community they get a toehold in, not least in the African American community. Righties well realize that homophobia, being a fear now unsupported by anybody's actual experience, disappears if they just shut the fuck up. That's why they have the whole yappity-yap thing going on.
If that's the case, it may be that LC and her ilk are hooked on the sensation of this irrational fear, and have to constantly try to refresh it lest it diminish and they have to meet life on its own terms. That's why she's here every day, pretending her fear is some kind of love, and that our love is some kind of abomination. Poor delusional dear.
28
I would ask that you try to be sensitive to their status.
When "gay" is mentioned in the community, it may be perceived as having more to do with making one member subservient to the other (as in, "I'll make you my b----")
Is it wrong? Of course. But you have to understand that an oppressed people will look to many metrics to find something that makes their own self-esteem increase.
Is it wrong? Of course...gays shouldn't have to suffer...but as a suffering people you should be sympathetic to them...
When "gay" is mentioned in the community, it may be perceived as having more to do with making one member subservient to the other (as in, "I'll make you my b----")
Is it wrong? Of course. But you have to understand that an oppressed people will look to many metrics to find something that makes their own self-esteem increase.
Is it wrong? Of course...gays shouldn't have to suffer...but as a suffering people you should be sympathetic to them...
29
24, Yeah, it's easier to blame another group for your group's problems, isn't it? It's not going to fix the problems in your group, but it saves you the effort from even trying.
34
Ah, the comedy that can be mined from right-wing idiots blathering about nonsense is seemingly endless. What a fucking idiot.
35
The point is, obviously, that if gay people would just get married to someone of the opposite sex and settle down to a life of trapped misery, everything would be fine. Just like it used to be.
38
@36
Children also do a very poor job of preventing child abuse, so I guess that's ok too?
See, it turns out that it's difficult for those with little power to stop those with a lot of power from doing what they want. Therefor, we hold the ones with the power accountable for their actions. We don't blame the victim.
Children also do a very poor job of preventing child abuse, so I guess that's ok too?
See, it turns out that it's difficult for those with little power to stop those with a lot of power from doing what they want. Therefor, we hold the ones with the power accountable for their actions. We don't blame the victim.
41
how much of your day do you spend just trolling the internet, looking for a fight with obscure bloggers?
is it billable?
is it billable?
43
@26, I'm guessing she has you confused with the Rev. Dr. DJ Riz. Because y'all have a whole three letters in common.
(This appears to be a follow-up to LC's accusation yesterday that Riz is not African American in the Dobson post. Which is, of course, as completely retarded as 99% of what she says--everyone knows who Riz is. Even I know Riz!)
(This appears to be a follow-up to LC's accusation yesterday that Riz is not African American in the Dobson post. Which is, of course, as completely retarded as 99% of what she says--everyone knows who Riz is. Even I know Riz!)
44
You really have to admire the contortions of logic these people will engage in for the sake of preserving the sanctity of "their" institution - better than watching The Peking Acrobats!
But, it does sort of beg the question: why should this argument only apply to African Americans? Why not just extend it to include all straight people?
Certainly, if they can make the case that seeing teh Gays get married will send Blacks into a death-spiral of despondency , thus discouraging them from getting married themselves, the same case can be made for all straights as well.
So the argument becomes, "gays shouldn't be allowed to marry, because the trauma of witnessing that will cause straight people to not want to get married, and that's bad for marriage", or something along those lines.
But, it does sort of beg the question: why should this argument only apply to African Americans? Why not just extend it to include all straight people?
Certainly, if they can make the case that seeing teh Gays get married will send Blacks into a death-spiral of despondency , thus discouraging them from getting married themselves, the same case can be made for all straights as well.
So the argument becomes, "gays shouldn't be allowed to marry, because the trauma of witnessing that will cause straight people to not want to get married, and that's bad for marriage", or something along those lines.
45
ok so LOVESCHILD.. my better self says to ignore and i tried taht for a few hours and you just wouldn't go away.. so i'll take your bait i'll take your bait and raise you a few with a hearty fuck you
FUCK YOU..fuck you to you and your ilk..
fuck you loveschild.. fuck your for your haughty misrepresentation of god's love to your obessesions over whether gays ought to be married, to your fake ass gay friends who really aren't interested in gay marriage, for your ignorance of your own fucking history ( read the fucking book on him or watch the fucking film atfilmhttp://rustin.org/ ) and your smug romanticism with your fake ass black oppresions, for your wildly and wholly unchristian judgments ( read that fucking book too while you're at it .. read it with your fucking open heart and your open mind.. try it f..just once ) fuck your equation of normal, healthy and natural love between consenting adults with bestiality, pedophilia, pornagraphy and child abuse...
fuck you loveschild fuck you you self righteous judgmental prig..fuck you.
where the fuck were you when black gays by the thousands were thrown out of our homes,our familes our churches,and our communities when we were sick and dying ? were you praying for us ? did you vist us ? comfort us? feed us ? when they chase us and murder us ? do you know that even in this day we are chased and murdered?..duanna johnson, latesha green.. do these women ..black women.. hold the slightest value for you ? do you believe that we're just asking for it because of our lifestyle choices ? do you stand up for us ? do you ever pray for us .. not against us but for us?.. well then fuck you..
i saw a few weeks ago where you have claimed us as your enemy, although none of us, not one has ever lifted a hand against you . EVER fuck you..loveschild fuck you..
when we get denied housing and basic health services, when we get denied jobs, when the goverment takes our properties, deny us our inheritances and shit on our meager legacies....have you ever in one moment in your fake ass bible humping life stood up for any of us ? you don't believe we've fought for any civil rights, you don't believe we have any..
fuck you ..your 'us' doesn't include us.. so fuck you fuck you fuck you
fuck you .you're a bad logician, a stupid human being, a terrible witness and a blight for everything love creates and stands for..you don't stand in an honest place and wouldn't know what if it hit you in your ass.. so to you and your endlessly tired bigotry
fuck you.. i'm done with you except to rebuke you and to say fuck you.
fuck you
More...
FUCK YOU..fuck you to you and your ilk..
fuck you loveschild.. fuck your for your haughty misrepresentation of god's love to your obessesions over whether gays ought to be married, to your fake ass gay friends who really aren't interested in gay marriage, for your ignorance of your own fucking history ( read the fucking book on him or watch the fucking film atfilmhttp://rustin.org/ ) and your smug romanticism with your fake ass black oppresions, for your wildly and wholly unchristian judgments ( read that fucking book too while you're at it .. read it with your fucking open heart and your open mind.. try it f..just once ) fuck your equation of normal, healthy and natural love between consenting adults with bestiality, pedophilia, pornagraphy and child abuse...
fuck you loveschild fuck you you self righteous judgmental prig..fuck you.
where the fuck were you when black gays by the thousands were thrown out of our homes,our familes our churches,and our communities when we were sick and dying ? were you praying for us ? did you vist us ? comfort us? feed us ? when they chase us and murder us ? do you know that even in this day we are chased and murdered?..duanna johnson, latesha green.. do these women ..black women.. hold the slightest value for you ? do you believe that we're just asking for it because of our lifestyle choices ? do you stand up for us ? do you ever pray for us .. not against us but for us?.. well then fuck you..
i saw a few weeks ago where you have claimed us as your enemy, although none of us, not one has ever lifted a hand against you . EVER fuck you..loveschild fuck you..
when we get denied housing and basic health services, when we get denied jobs, when the goverment takes our properties, deny us our inheritances and shit on our meager legacies....have you ever in one moment in your fake ass bible humping life stood up for any of us ? you don't believe we've fought for any civil rights, you don't believe we have any..
fuck you ..your 'us' doesn't include us.. so fuck you fuck you fuck you
fuck you .you're a bad logician, a stupid human being, a terrible witness and a blight for everything love creates and stands for..you don't stand in an honest place and wouldn't know what if it hit you in your ass.. so to you and your endlessly tired bigotry
fuck you.. i'm done with you except to rebuke you and to say fuck you.
fuck you
47
@45... I am so in love/awe/respect/joy with you right now reverend dr dj riz...You make this a better place to be.
49
Oh, am I right that this chick is white? Google the image!
Scapegoated gays and African Americans at the same fucking time.
Scapegoated gays and African Americans at the same fucking time.
52
@ 45 -
APPLAUSE APPLAUSE APPLAUSE APPLAUSE APPLAUSE
APPLAUSE APPLAUSE APPLAUSE APPLAUSE APPLAUSE
APPLAUSE APPLAUSE APPLAUSE APPLAUSE APPLAUSE APPLAUSE
APPLAUSE APPLAUSE APPLAUSE APPLAUSE APPLAUSE
APPLAUSE APPLAUSE APPLAUSE APPLAUSE APPLAUSE
APPLAUSE APPLAUSE APPLAUSE APPLAUSE APPLAUSE APPLAUSE
54
My first thought upon trying to make some sense out of the obscenities and falsehoods you have written has been that I was right in thinking you're just a pretender. You see no real African American, no matter their sexuality could be so ignorant and express the things you have when they well know that the church in the African American community has been and is a place where many gays have found shelter and help. Specially when it comes to HIV / AIDS related issues. Including those very real "fake ass" friends of mine you alluded to, (they would never spew the garbage you have), that's just basic knowledge. At least it is to those of us who really are members of the community and reside in it. But in the small chance that you might actually be real, all I can say is, you've been well trained. I hope your fall is not that painful once you finally open your eyes. And I also hope...I know, that same community you're rejecting and disparaging so crassly to gain the praise of people like the ones here, will welcome you back just as the prodigal son was received with a joyful welcome upon his return to the home he once left for the false joys the world had to offer. Good luck rev. In God's love.
55
No, Loveschild your the pretender and the teller of falsehoods. You deny people like Riz and Chitown Kev of their experiences, claiming because there experiences are not your experiences then they aren't true African Americans.
You think the rest of us can't remember your comments over the last few months. We aren't fooled by you. You have painted yourself as cruel, intolerant, judgmental, nasty, dishonest, violent, quick to take things out of context, unwilling to follow basic reading comprehension, and unable to use proper grammer and spelling to convey your thoughts. Go back and read your posts, you'll discover the liar is you. But you won't, you'll let your pride prevent you.
You think the rest of us can't remember your comments over the last few months. We aren't fooled by you. You have painted yourself as cruel, intolerant, judgmental, nasty, dishonest, violent, quick to take things out of context, unwilling to follow basic reading comprehension, and unable to use proper grammer and spelling to convey your thoughts. Go back and read your posts, you'll discover the liar is you. But you won't, you'll let your pride prevent you.
56
LC, Riz isn't disparaging the black community. He's disparaging you--you big, fake, racist, lying, homophobic faux-martyr. God is gonna be sooooo pissed at you for intentionally torturing his children here on Earth, and going against everything that Jesus ever said about love and tolerance.
Kim in Portland and Riz, you guys break my heart. In a good way.
Kim in Portland and Riz, you guys break my heart. In a good way.
58
Don't people care when their arguments sound retarded?
If enough articles like this one come out, opposition to gay marriage will drop to the 15 - 20% of people that will always be on the wrong side of any given issue.
If enough articles like this one come out, opposition to gay marriage will drop to the 15 - 20% of people that will always be on the wrong side of any given issue.
59
When it comes to HIV/AIDS related issues? I don't know what Loveschild is smoking.
Even in the mid-1980's, a little over half of the HIV/AIDS was black or Latino. At that time, African American organizations and churches actually more organizations to deal with the AIDS crisis even if it was just in the context of African American communities.
No Loveschild, we were told that AIDS was a gay disease, that to be gay was to be white. The church turned many of us away.
The real part of that particular tragedy was that in many instances, those gay black men that had HIV/AIDS didn't necessarily die of the disease. They overdosed on crack. African American communities and churches turned gay black men out of their churches and in many cases out of their communities and let them die.
Even in the mid-1980's, a little over half of the HIV/AIDS was black or Latino. At that time, African American organizations and churches actually more organizations to deal with the AIDS crisis even if it was just in the context of African American communities.
No Loveschild, we were told that AIDS was a gay disease, that to be gay was to be white. The church turned many of us away.
The real part of that particular tragedy was that in many instances, those gay black men that had HIV/AIDS didn't necessarily die of the disease. They overdosed on crack. African American communities and churches turned gay black men out of their churches and in many cases out of their communities and let them die.
61
@49: Chitown Kev
Yes, she is white. I went to her article, and clicked on a link that she referenced (which was another of her articles), when then took me to a publication that she contributes to. There on the side was an ad for one of her books. I clicked the ad, and got info on the book and a link to her author info. Here is the link, showing her picture and other details:
http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/…
Riz, Kev, & Kim - Thanks for saying to LC what many of us have been thinking. She really is beneath you - but lies like hers can't go unchallenged.
Yes, she is white. I went to her article, and clicked on a link that she referenced (which was another of her articles), when then took me to a publication that she contributes to. There on the side was an ad for one of her books. I clicked the ad, and got info on the book and a link to her author info. Here is the link, showing her picture and other details:
http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/…
Riz, Kev, & Kim - Thanks for saying to LC what many of us have been thinking. She really is beneath you - but lies like hers can't go unchallenged.
62
Kim – as a frequent poster who is consistently thoughtful, reasoned, rational, forgiving and kind; and Riz – as an infrequent poster who, when the collective frustration and outrage of the Slog community reach unsustainable levels and threaten to derail all rational dialogue, manages to eloquently and powerfully turn on the lights and tell it like it is from your heart as nobody else can; I want to thank you both. You have opened my atheist eyes to what a true christian looks like. With LC around, it is all too easy for me to cling to my stereotype of the self-hating, self-deceptive, gay-obsessed, locked-minded bigoted ignoramus who believes god hates anything or anyone they don't understand, that there is only one acceptable form love can take, that appearances are far more important in the eyes of their god than truth or substance, and who distorts their own deep shame into hateful weapons against those brave and healthy enough to live truthfully, because they themselves can never be whole and happy. I would be proud to be able to say “I have christian friends” and be referring to folks like you two, rather than the defiantly ignorant faux-christians of LC’s ilk. What a sad and lonely life and death await her.
I heart my entire Slog community for tirelessly fighting against bigotry and ignorance, but I want to once again single you guys out for my deepest appreciation and respect. THANK YOU Riz for passionately speaking truth to power and refusing to be told who you are by others who have no idea and never will. And thank you Kim for your grace and patience while day in, day out consistently giving voice to another Quaker tenet: what is obtained by love is retained, but what is obtained by hatred proves a burden. You guys make my day every time you post.
I heart my entire Slog community for tirelessly fighting against bigotry and ignorance, but I want to once again single you guys out for my deepest appreciation and respect. THANK YOU Riz for passionately speaking truth to power and refusing to be told who you are by others who have no idea and never will. And thank you Kim for your grace and patience while day in, day out consistently giving voice to another Quaker tenet: what is obtained by love is retained, but what is obtained by hatred proves a burden. You guys make my day every time you post.
63
"if someone can persuade me that the chances are zero, then I would be much more sanguine. But anything more than zero, I am reluctant to risk."
Egads! Following that logic:
If my odds of dying in a car crash not 0, I'm not getting in the car. Guess I'm not going to work today. Can't take the bus or walk as the odds of accident are not 0. Better stay in bed, as odds of falling and breaking skull are not 0. Wait, cannot stay in bed as odds of fire and death from smoke inhalation are not 0. Also, if I sleep, odds of dying from sleep apnea are not 0.
What is really amazing, if you think about it, is that people continue marrying despite the odds of failure. If you had a 50% chance of failing a course, would you take it? Would you buy a car with a 50% chance of being a lemon? And yet people continue to marry, and desire marriage, despite the odds of pain and failure.
Egads! Following that logic:
If my odds of dying in a car crash not 0, I'm not getting in the car. Guess I'm not going to work today. Can't take the bus or walk as the odds of accident are not 0. Better stay in bed, as odds of falling and breaking skull are not 0. Wait, cannot stay in bed as odds of fire and death from smoke inhalation are not 0. Also, if I sleep, odds of dying from sleep apnea are not 0.
What is really amazing, if you think about it, is that people continue marrying despite the odds of failure. If you had a 50% chance of failing a course, would you take it? Would you buy a car with a 50% chance of being a lemon? And yet people continue to marry, and desire marriage, despite the odds of pain and failure.
65
This is one of the MOST ridiculous arguments against gay marriage I have ever heard... pull another one out of your ass MacDonald.... I need another good laugh
66
....umm ..ummm.. thanks all y'all.
jen that was a rough one to consider and to write ( and i don't want to engage lc in any more of her poot fests)..thanks for having our backs.. and kim in portland.. i get down there from time to time. perhaps we slog happy thre one of these days..
seriouly..thanks
jen that was a rough one to consider and to write ( and i don't want to engage lc in any more of her poot fests)..thanks for having our backs.. and kim in portland.. i get down there from time to time. perhaps we slog happy thre one of these days..
seriouly..thanks
68
@63 Ha ha ha ha!!
To continue your logical chain-- the odds of having children with a guy who will someday lose his job, get a gun and a case of the gloomies, and become a family annihilator are not 0. Best to not have children.
To continue your logical chain-- the odds of having children with a guy who will someday lose his job, get a gun and a case of the gloomies, and become a family annihilator are not 0. Best to not have children.
69
Anybody with the last name of "MacDonald," only brings to my mind a "Quarter Pounder with Cheese."
Advertisement
Most Commented on Slog
-
SL Letter of the Day: Daddy Loves Who? by Dan Savage
-
SL Letter of the Day: Life Sentence by Dan Savage
-
Crowdsourcing Uncut Police Video from the Dec. 12 Occupy Protest at the Port of Seattle by Eli Sanders
-
Slog Bible Study: Deuteronomy 21:10-14 by Goldy
-
The AP Is Reporting That Whitney Houston Is Dead by Paul Constant
-
The Onion Is on a Roll: "Iran Worried U.S. Might Be Building 8,500th Nuclear Weapon" by Charles Mudede
-
Announcing The Stranger's Tournament of Dunces! Who's the Dumbest Representative in the State House? by Christopher Frizzelle
-
Survey Says: Cyclists Would Rather Give Up Sex Than Their Bikes by Bethany Jean Clement
-
Stranger Tournament of Dunces, Match 3: Rep. Mark Hargrove vs. Rep. Norma Smith by Eli Sanders
-
Jeremy Lin Saves the NBA by Charles Mudede
RSS
Facebook
Twitter
Comments (71) RSS