Wednesday, May 6, 2009
Politics It?
Posted by Dan Savage on Wed, May 6, 2009 at 8:24 AM
Did Elizabeth Edwards really refer to one of her husband's children—the child John Edwards had by another woman—as "it" on Oprah? Asked if the child is John's, Mrs. Edwards said she didn't know.
“It doesn’t look like my children, but I don’t have any idea.”
"It" doesn't look like my children? Ugh. I have to say that I agree with Maureen Dowd. Mrs. Edwards is lashing out at her husband, her husband's ex-piece-on-the-side, and an innocent child. While her anger may be understandable, she assumes that her gold-plated victim status—cancer victim, infidelity victim—will prevent people from examining her motives and questioning her judgment. Indeed, based on her public comments it doesn't seem that Mrs. Edwards has thought too deeply about her own actions—from her decision to support her husband's campaign after being told about the affair to her decision to write this book. Like Dowd says, despite the fact that John Edwards' political career is over...
...Saint Elizabeth has dragged him back into the public square for a flogging on “Oprah” and in Time and at bookstores near you. The book is billed as helping people “facing life’s adversities” and offering an “inspirational meditation on the gifts we can find among life’s biggest challenges.” But it’s just a gratuitous peek into their lives, and one that exposes her kids, by peddling more dregs about their personal family life in a book.... Asked by Oprah in a taping for Thursday’s show whether she’s still in love with her husband, she replied, “You know, that’s a complicated question.” The really complicated question is what she hopes to gain from this book.
Elizabeth Edwards has been through a great deal, and I sympathize. But it's clear now that John Edwards isn't the only narcissist in their marriage.
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4
What is the point in all of this? Elizabeth Edwards is hardly the first woman to be cheated on, hell, she's not even the first woman to have her husband stray while recovering from cancer (see Newt's first wife.) What galls me about her is that she knew about this baby, and still encouraged her husband to run for President. What would have happened if he were the winner of the primaries and then this came out? BTW, there are paternity tests. For John Edwards to keep acting like there's no way to figure out if this baby is his or not is silly...
5
I'd say she'll probably regret publishing and making this stuff public, instead of just, you know, writing in a diary or something, but I guess not since she's not expected to live too long.
I wonder what John thinks of this? I wonder if he's more sad or more waiting-in-anticipation?
I wonder what John thinks of this? I wonder if he's more sad or more waiting-in-anticipation?
6
Why shouldn't she make some scratch from the disaster life has handed her? And maybe a little revenge on her husband will make her feel better. I know it makes me feel better.
8
Wow - Dan and Maureen Dope. Elizabeth is allowed to have a turn to speak. I don't think wanting to be heard makes you a narcissist.
9
Gonna hafta disagree here. John can do no wrong. Besides this kid should've been aborted (so behaving as if it were is okay).
10
Elizabeth Edwards gave up her legal career in the 90's to support John's political career and to raise their children. She also dealt with her son's death, ran a charitable foundation in his name, and dealt with bouts of breast cancer. She also became a substitute schoolteacher in her "free" time.
What do you want her to do, move into a trailer park and support her children, pay her medical bills, and pay for her retirement by substitute teaching (at 70% the salary of a male substitute teacher)? The only narcissistic thing she did was decide it was a good idea to become financially and socially dependent on her husband to further his career ambitions.
Oh yah, Elizabeth Edwards also publicly broke with her husband's bigoted politics by supporting gay marriage completely. Narcissistic?
What do you want her to do, move into a trailer park and support her children, pay her medical bills, and pay for her retirement by substitute teaching (at 70% the salary of a male substitute teacher)? The only narcissistic thing she did was decide it was a good idea to become financially and socially dependent on her husband to further his career ambitions.
Oh yah, Elizabeth Edwards also publicly broke with her husband's bigoted politics by supporting gay marriage completely. Narcissistic?
11
I agree with 1 on reading a whole lot into on-the-fly pronoun usage. And maybe she isn't publishing this book for the noblest of motives, but I really just don't care. Lots of people write dumb books, and I can't summon up any outrage over this dumb book in particular. Especially if its target is a guy who cheated on his wife with terminal cancer.
13
you're reading too much into "it", you dumbass.
and fuck maureen dowd. she is to journalism what dan savage is to reasoned thinking.
and fuck maureen dowd. she is to journalism what dan savage is to reasoned thinking.
15
I don't understand -- I see no offense at all in calling a baby "it". If she was saying something rude about it, that's different. But what's wrong with "It's so cute!" Seriously, this offends people?
16
@12 so when asking expecting parents the gender of their baby, be sure to phrase it like this. "Is he or she a boy or a girl?" instead of "Is it a boy or a girl."
17
Wrong, Dan.
You need a motive for her book and appearance on Oprah?
Hows about revenge? Edwards made her look like a fool, now she's going to drag his name through the mud. I would do the same thing.
And fuck, she dying for crying out loud. He's lucky she didn't cut his dick off.
You need a motive for her book and appearance on Oprah?
Hows about revenge? Edwards made her look like a fool, now she's going to drag his name through the mud. I would do the same thing.
And fuck, she dying for crying out loud. He's lucky she didn't cut his dick off.
21
Since we're guessing her motives, my favorite notion is that John is sincerely remorseful, and aside from obv. doing his best to never fuck anybody but Elizabeth, he asked her to let him know if she thought of more he needed to do to help fix the damage he caused her.
She's all like, well, I'd enjoy seeing you suffer through this public flogging I'm planning for you plus that gal you fucked plus her li'l rascal, and he's like, that's hot, peg me now.
She's all like, well, I'd enjoy seeing you suffer through this public flogging I'm planning for you plus that gal you fucked plus her li'l rascal, and he's like, that's hot, peg me now.
22
But what about the moment it's born? "It's a boy!" "It's a girl!" When do you cross the line to offense?
23
Don't blame her one bit. She needs to parade and expose that pretty boy carcass of his and make sure that he has no type of political future or respect from the public till the day he dies.
I know that compared to what other on her place had done what she's doing is mild at best. So she's enjoying his downfall and then some, so what?
This man humiliated her and made her kept shut and put on a farce so that he could advance his political aspirations. Well now it's me time for her and its her time to think of herself and for him to be the bitch. He just need to thank his lucky stars (and her) he still has a pair of balls and a penis attached to him.
I know that compared to what other on her place had done what she's doing is mild at best. So she's enjoying his downfall and then some, so what?
This man humiliated her and made her kept shut and put on a farce so that he could advance his political aspirations. Well now it's me time for her and its her time to think of herself and for him to be the bitch. He just need to thank his lucky stars (and her) he still has a pair of balls and a penis attached to him.
24
Also, fuck forcibly assigning gender to babies. I find calling an infant "she" or "he" much more offensive than "it." But I guess I'm in the minority, since most parents don't seem to have a problem forcing religion or gender or sexual orientation or future careers upon their infants.
25
BTW, since I didn't say at 12, you don't use pronouns at all with babies if you don't know the gender. You just use "the baby" or "the kid."
What make Elizabeth Edward's calling the baby "it" eyebrow-raising is that parents are pretty sensitive about that, and so are people like teachers who deal with children and parents for a living. She's not some childless hipster.
What make Elizabeth Edward's calling the baby "it" eyebrow-raising is that parents are pretty sensitive about that, and so are people like teachers who deal with children and parents for a living. She's not some childless hipster.
26
@ 23, there's that christian turn-the-other-cheek forgiveness we love!
@ 24, wait til you have kids, if you ever do.
@ 24, wait til you have kids, if you ever do.
33
BTW, opinions from childless hipsters and anonymous trolls on this matter don't count. Most of you would never call a baby "it" to a parent's face.
34
I think all babies are "its," and for people to get up in arms about something so stupid is, well...stupid. Nobody but you cares that much about your fucking kids, and if "it" is the worst thing anybody ever calls them (especially since its use is meant innocuously more often than not), they're lucky. Now take your wrinkled, genderless sacks of replicant flesh and kindly fuck the fuck off. Danke.
35
If you look at the whole quote, it seems that the pronoun confusion comes from whether she's referring to the child or the picture. Don't have the exact quote, but something very close to, "I've seen a picture. It doesn't look like my children..." To me, that's not nearly as bad. Don't really care about her one way or the other, but this is a time where I do think the quote as been taken out of context a bit.
36
I've called a baby "it" plenty of times. Including in front of their parents. I mean no offense, it's just a slip. Maybe that's all it was in this case as well. It's a non-story.
39
@25, Re: "What make Elizabeth Edward's calling the baby "it" eyebrow-raising is that parents are pretty sensitive about that, and so are people like teachers who deal with children and parents for a living. She's not some childless hipster."
Okay, that makes sense. It depends on the context. If it seems deliberate, or just obtuse, it's offensive. After all, I only say "It's so cute" when it's a baby and the gender isn't clear. But you have to admit, parents can get precious about these things sometimes.
And @24, care to join us in the real world anytime soon?
Okay, that makes sense. It depends on the context. If it seems deliberate, or just obtuse, it's offensive. After all, I only say "It's so cute" when it's a baby and the gender isn't clear. But you have to admit, parents can get precious about these things sometimes.
And @24, care to join us in the real world anytime soon?
40
Good god what's with the obsession with minor errors of diction. (Mea culpa, I didn't like Franish).
If Johnboy was chosen as VP this could've resulted in Obama losing.
Her sin is a big one. she collaborated in the Johnboy lie, even trumpeted their marriage as his best feature and testament, she was a character witness for him, she was big fat liar during the campaign and risked the future of our nation and deceived voters, Edwards supporters, staffers and donors.
*She* was the power hungry lying liar spouse in that primary race. Her personal troubles and victim hood do not justify her lying to the nation.
If Johnboy was chosen as VP this could've resulted in Obama losing.
Her sin is a big one. she collaborated in the Johnboy lie, even trumpeted their marriage as his best feature and testament, she was a character witness for him, she was big fat liar during the campaign and risked the future of our nation and deceived voters, Edwards supporters, staffers and donors.
*She* was the power hungry lying liar spouse in that primary race. Her personal troubles and victim hood do not justify her lying to the nation.
42
Can we please stop throwing the word narcissist at everyone who does something selfish?
It's obvious that whatever her motives for doing this she's not doing it for her kids or her cheating assface husband or his mistress or that mistress' child who may or may not be her husband's. She's doing it for her, and yes we can all sit and judge her motives but you just show me someone who has been through what she has who WOULDN'T take the opportunity to get revenge. That person? The one who doesn't take the low(er) road of self centered revenge driven humiliation of the one who has humiliated her? That person isn't normal, she's a saint.
Elizabeth Edwards is normal. She's just doing it on a bigger stage than the average person gets.
Save "narcissist" for real chronic mental conditions.
It's obvious that whatever her motives for doing this she's not doing it for her kids or her cheating assface husband or his mistress or that mistress' child who may or may not be her husband's. She's doing it for her, and yes we can all sit and judge her motives but you just show me someone who has been through what she has who WOULDN'T take the opportunity to get revenge. That person? The one who doesn't take the low(er) road of self centered revenge driven humiliation of the one who has humiliated her? That person isn't normal, she's a saint.
Elizabeth Edwards is normal. She's just doing it on a bigger stage than the average person gets.
Save "narcissist" for real chronic mental conditions.
46
@33
I wish everyone would cut Matt some slack. He's been very sensitive about the whole "damn that's a ugly baby- what is IT" ever since he was born when the doctor hoisted him up and slapped his face and the nurses put a bonnet on his ass, by mistake.
I wish everyone would cut Matt some slack. He's been very sensitive about the whole "damn that's a ugly baby- what is IT" ever since he was born when the doctor hoisted him up and slapped his face and the nurses put a bonnet on his ass, by mistake.
49
Levide, reposting the same thing doesn't do anything but make you look like a parroting imbecile. Just an FYI.
50
@48, I think the only person who got precious here was @24, who was arguing the opposite side.
Here -- chew on this for awhile. It'll make you happy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJRzBpFjJ…
Here -- chew on this for awhile. It'll make you happy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJRzBpFjJ…
51
Matt, you'll notice I responded to two different statements, one 'parroting' the other, and I'll stand by my response, thanks.
52
This is a woman who is dying of cancer and is married to a turd husband who possibly impregnated an awful hippie. If she wants to call the alleged-spawn of that union an "it" then go right ahead. I doubt any of us can even come close to contextualizing Elizabeth Edwards' feelings in this situation.
Also, Maureen Dowd...bleeuhghththhtrrhhglurg.
Also, Maureen Dowd...bleeuhghththhtrrhhglurg.
54
@ 48 and 51
wtf is "getting precious" supposed to mean? You mean that they get sensitive over what is precious to them, or what?
wtf is "getting precious" supposed to mean? You mean that they get sensitive over what is precious to them, or what?
56
Why are we getting upset. If I were Elizabeth Edwards I would be calling my douche bag husbands bastard child worse things then it. I would even suggest that it is retarded and likely to be a drain on society. But then again if i were Elizabeth Edwards i would have John's balls on public display.
57
Why are we getting upset. If I were Elizabeth Edwards I would be calling my douche bag husbands bastard child worse things then it. I would even suggest that it is retarded and likely to be a drain on society. But then again if i were Elizabeth Edwards i would have John's balls on public display.
58
I've accidentally said 'it' when referring to a baby or kid. I always try to correct myself!! But I think it does happen to people... Did she do it repeatedly or just the once?
59
Sure you do, but in the end, as far as you're concerned, John was entitled to fuck someone else (likely without using a condom, no less) while his wife was out of commission with cancer. Therefore, Elizabeth's attempts to get even makes her a bad person.
Elizabeth Edwards has been through a great deal, and I sympathize.
Sure you do, but in the end, as far as you're concerned, John was entitled to fuck someone else (likely without using a condom, no less) while his wife was out of commission with cancer. Therefore, Elizabeth's attempts to get even makes her a bad person.
63
I have a child. Using "it" to describe babies doesn't necessarily sound weird to me at all.
I agree: "Congratulations! Your newborn baby is a boy!" is bizarre and no one has ever said that. "Congratulations! It's a boy!" has been said a billion times and hasn't raised a single eyebrow yet.
I agree: "Congratulations! Your newborn baby is a boy!" is bizarre and no one has ever said that. "Congratulations! It's a boy!" has been said a billion times and hasn't raised a single eyebrow yet.
64
@ 24, wait til you have kids, if you ever do.
And @24, care to join us in the real world anytime soon?
1960 - It was normal to assign infants a lifetime career at birth.
1970 - It was normal to beat your kids at will.
1980 - It was normal to assign infants a lifelong religion at birth.
1990 - It was normal to assign infants a lifelong sexual orientation at birth.
2000 - It was normal to assign infants a lifelong gender at birth.
Obviously, these dates vary depending on regional culture and family culture (some families still assign kids their careers and religions and beat them whenever they feel like). The point of progressivism is to progress beyond the oppressive and unjust practices of the past.
You can't ignore the 5% of people who don't have the dominant sexual orientation anymore. You can't ignore the 1.5% of people who don't have the dominant gender orientation anymore (this is the number who are currently identified as intersex or transgender -- this percentage will be sure to rise as it becomes more acceptable to come out as intersex, transgender, androgynous, or genderqueer).
65
I think what Elizabeth Edwards is saying is when life gives you lemons you should carve those lemons into Chinese Stars and fling them at the people who hurt you and then pour the juice into their eyes.
66
@56 So you would be calling the kid "Trigg Palin?" Oh I went there... Look as someone who has in detail explained to her husband that it would be much easier for him to "have a horrible accident" then for me to divorce his ass if he ever cheated on me (and bearing in mind that I do take responsiblity and am aware its my job to make with the sex if I dont want him shopping around, Thanks Dan!)
Well to quote Chris Rock, I'm not saying Elizabeth Edwards is Right... but I UNDERSTAND!!!!
Well to quote Chris Rock, I'm not saying Elizabeth Edwards is Right... but I UNDERSTAND!!!!
67
@64, I don't disagree with you. But at what point do you start referring to people as "he" or "she"? Not until they're adults and fully certain of their gender/sexuality? Come on. Kids aren't damaged by being called he or she, they're damaged when they show signs of difference that their parents ignore or deliberately suppress. Let's keep things in perspective here.
@65, !!!
@65, !!!
68
@64 How's that ultimate frisbee degree at Evergreen coming along for you? Whoops, there I go un-progressively assigning adjectives to a frisbee-based game. I have no right to make such assumptions, since we all know that 2.8% of all ultimate frisbee games don't self-identify as "ultimate" at all.
70
"There are people who are upset at me because they think I called John Edwards gay. I would never insult the gay community like that" - Anne Coulter in what is one of the funniest lines ever.
71
While it is considered more polite to refer to a baby as a "he" or "she," or if unknown as a "he or she," there is a long history of babies being referred as "it" in English. For one thing, until recently people didn't routinely know the sex of a baby in the womb. For another, the sex of a newborn is nearly impossible to discern without asking. Many, many parents refer to their babies as "it" before the sex is known, for instance, as a way to keep some emotional distance in case the baby is lost (e.g. in a miscarriage).
These are social or cultural issues, of course, but linguistically English also has relics of the old grammatical-gender system that we used to have (and that French and Spanish and Russian, etc., still have). We now mostly have a natural-sex gender system, but the following page offers a fairly accurate and interesting discussion of grammatical gender in English--which is surprisingly complicated--and note that "baby" is sometimes grammatically-gendered as "common gender," which may be realized as "he," "she," or "it" depending on context:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_in_E…
(The relevant table is adapted from Quirk et al. "Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language" Longman 1985.)
Given all of this, I would analyze Elizabeth Edwards's use of "it" here less as a slur of the baby but more as a way of grammatically and emotionally distancing herself from that child, and it is a usage that is quite common and she shouldn't be singled out particularly for it.
These are social or cultural issues, of course, but linguistically English also has relics of the old grammatical-gender system that we used to have (and that French and Spanish and Russian, etc., still have). We now mostly have a natural-sex gender system, but the following page offers a fairly accurate and interesting discussion of grammatical gender in English--which is surprisingly complicated--and note that "baby" is sometimes grammatically-gendered as "common gender," which may be realized as "he," "she," or "it" depending on context:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_in_E…
(The relevant table is adapted from Quirk et al. "Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language" Longman 1985.)
Given all of this, I would analyze Elizabeth Edwards's use of "it" here less as a slur of the baby but more as a way of grammatically and emotionally distancing herself from that child, and it is a usage that is quite common and she shouldn't be singled out particularly for it.
72
Hey look you fucking dumbasses! It's the OED!:
"referring to an animal or child of unspecified sex : she was holding the baby, cradling it and smiling into its face."
Jesus Christ. Pets are it, no matter what their stupid owners say. Babies are it, no matter what their stupid parents say. Small children are also it.
Look I don't bitch every time someone calls a baby "he" or "she", why does the other side think it gets to be prescriptivist about my use of language?
How do other languages do it? In German you've got Das Baby, Das Mädchen, etc., all of which are properly referred to as 'it'.
I'll give this forum ten minutes before someone pulls some sort of Sapir-Whorf—Godwin chimera-argument on me.
"referring to an animal or child of unspecified sex : she was holding the baby, cradling it and smiling into its face."
Jesus Christ. Pets are it, no matter what their stupid owners say. Babies are it, no matter what their stupid parents say. Small children are also it.
Look I don't bitch every time someone calls a baby "he" or "she", why does the other side think it gets to be prescriptivist about my use of language?
How do other languages do it? In German you've got Das Baby, Das Mädchen, etc., all of which are properly referred to as 'it'.
I'll give this forum ten minutes before someone pulls some sort of Sapir-Whorf—Godwin chimera-argument on me.
73
Yeah, her motivation is to strike back.
Eliz seems to be in some serious denial as well. She’s placing almost all of the blame for this affair and child on the other woman. Her husband is responsible for keeping his dick in his pants and being faithful to his wife. . . not the other woman. I can’t stand the kind of women who would willing mess with a man in a relationship but bottom line it’s the man’s responsibility to not lie and cheat, to turn down temptations.
BTW why don't they just get a DNA test? Probably waiting til Eliz dies then he'll have it done.
Eliz seems to be in some serious denial as well. She’s placing almost all of the blame for this affair and child on the other woman. Her husband is responsible for keeping his dick in his pants and being faithful to his wife. . . not the other woman. I can’t stand the kind of women who would willing mess with a man in a relationship but bottom line it’s the man’s responsibility to not lie and cheat, to turn down temptations.
BTW why don't they just get a DNA test? Probably waiting til Eliz dies then he'll have it done.
74
72
Wow.
You think Dan would know that,
being an Editor and all.
I wonder what other shit
Slog gets totally wrong?
Wow.
You think Dan would know that,
being an Editor and all.
I wonder what other shit
Slog gets totally wrong?
75
#64, this isn't about gender. It's about sex. Babies are born male/female. Calling them he/she doesn't "assign a lifelong gender" to them. Get a grip please.
76
@ Matt:
BTW, opinions from childless hipsters and anonymous trolls on this matter don't count.
Really? Only breeder sows and their sperm donors get to have an opinion?
See what I did there? Incendiary language FTW!
I'm childless by choice, but that doesn't make me a 'hipster' (whateverthefuck that even is.) Our opinions hold as much weight as yours. Grow up.
And yes, I would and do refer to children as 'it' in their parents' presence. So, you're 0 for 2.
BTW, opinions from childless hipsters and anonymous trolls on this matter don't count.
Really? Only breeder sows and their sperm donors get to have an opinion?
See what I did there? Incendiary language FTW!
I'm childless by choice, but that doesn't make me a 'hipster' (whateverthefuck that even is.) Our opinions hold as much weight as yours. Grow up.
And yes, I would and do refer to children as 'it' in their parents' presence. So, you're 0 for 2.
77
@ 76, no, your opinion on this matter does not equal mine. And you're lying in your last paragraph, unless you mean "it's a boy!" (I made allowance for that context above.)
@ 46, I agree with 53, this was pretty funny!
@ 46, I agree with 53, this was pretty funny!
78
77:
My opinion is every bit as valid. Sorry you're having trouble dealing with that (and, perhaps your own life choices. Jealous?)
I'm lying about calling children 'it' in front of their parents? Really? I'm not sure how you'd know anything about my personal life, but you're absolutely wrong (again.)
My nickname for my eldest niece has been "Little It" since before she was born- and over a decade later, my sister still thinks it's funny. So there!
My opinion is every bit as valid. Sorry you're having trouble dealing with that (and, perhaps your own life choices. Jealous?)
I'm lying about calling children 'it' in front of their parents? Really? I'm not sure how you'd know anything about my personal life, but you're absolutely wrong (again.)
My nickname for my eldest niece has been "Little It" since before she was born- and over a decade later, my sister still thinks it's funny. So there!
82
Who the fuck cares what she calls her douchebag husband, her douchebag husband's slut, or the douchebag husband's slut's crotchfruit? Kerrrist! The lady is going through some serious shit, if she wants to be a little bitchy, let her!
Personally, if it were me I'd have used John Edward's scrotum as a noose to hang the hippie tramp after bludgeoning Johnny Cum Lately to death with his own illegitimate spawn. The lady should be applauded for not slaying all three of them as soon as it hit the tabloids.
Personally, if it were me I'd have used John Edward's scrotum as a noose to hang the hippie tramp after bludgeoning Johnny Cum Lately to death with his own illegitimate spawn. The lady should be applauded for not slaying all three of them as soon as it hit the tabloids.
83
Using the pronoun "it" to describe a child, any child, was common up to the 20th century. I wouldn't read too much into it.
84
The guy's a loathsome scavenger. He pursued a lot of completely discredited malpractice cases (but won them), cheated on his critically ill wife, lied and lied and lied and lied. He deserves to get raked over the coals a bit. Though maybe he can take his wife to court or something classy like that.
85
You were not the only one who noticed the "it" and was taken aback by it. It was also a stipulation of the interview that the mistress's name not be mentioned. The subject was discussed, but the name wasn't said. So she was trying to depersonalize them. Not being able to say her name meant Oprah had to keep referring to her as "the other woman" extra. The "it" was just as intentional.
86
He's a douchebag and she has shown a lack of grace, which is too bad. From a pure PR POV, she is not doing herself any favors. While there must be a great sense of satisfaction in paying him back, it does so at the expense of her own character, viewed by many as above reproach (although I personally believe all relationshiips are pretty perfectly formed and that staying in a marriage with an asshole must have benefits to the person staying in it).
Meanwhile, re: 'it'. This is in and of itself not worth a debate had she merely referred to the child as "it" - an unfortunate but forgivable and common oversight; in the context of the "hell hath no fury" stance that she has taken by both writing a book and publicizing its most tabloid features, however, her lashing out at the child seems deliberate and is even more classless writing the book.
Meanwhile, re: 'it'. This is in and of itself not worth a debate had she merely referred to the child as "it" - an unfortunate but forgivable and common oversight; in the context of the "hell hath no fury" stance that she has taken by both writing a book and publicizing its most tabloid features, however, her lashing out at the child seems deliberate and is even more classless writing the book.
87
Matt from Denver: although I could give a damn what Elizabeth Edwards had to say about the other woman's child, I take issue with the fact that people who have kids *automatically* know more about kid issues than people who haven't.
I can't biologically bear children & am not currently living w/ my longtime SO, so adoption = not for me either. But I've been babysitting since I was a wee tyke, raised my youngest brother & am a happy auntie who plays w/ nieces/nephews whenever possible.
The attitude of: I'm a parent, you're not, so STFU, no opinions allowed for you, is pretty hurtful.
When I am unsure of the gender of a child - when someone hasn't drowned their infant in baby blue or pale pink - I'll say "they". Gosh, they're adorable! & if the conversation continues, & no name/genderclue has been dropped, it seems polite to express my uncertainty by saying..he..? or she..? with an obvious questioning tone. But usually saying "What a beautiful baby" suffices just fine.
Having children doesn't make you a better or wiser person, & doesn't mean the contributions of people with no children are less worthy than yours. I know plenty of tactless, thoughtless parents who just stumbled into having kids.
Thanks. Oh yeah, not a hipster. I live an an area rife with hipsters. But I'm too geeky to be a hipster. ;)
I can't biologically bear children & am not currently living w/ my longtime SO, so adoption = not for me either. But I've been babysitting since I was a wee tyke, raised my youngest brother & am a happy auntie who plays w/ nieces/nephews whenever possible.
The attitude of: I'm a parent, you're not, so STFU, no opinions allowed for you, is pretty hurtful.
When I am unsure of the gender of a child - when someone hasn't drowned their infant in baby blue or pale pink - I'll say "they". Gosh, they're adorable! & if the conversation continues, & no name/genderclue has been dropped, it seems polite to express my uncertainty by saying..he..? or she..? with an obvious questioning tone. But usually saying "What a beautiful baby" suffices just fine.
Having children doesn't make you a better or wiser person, & doesn't mean the contributions of people with no children are less worthy than yours. I know plenty of tactless, thoughtless parents who just stumbled into having kids.
Thanks. Oh yeah, not a hipster. I live an an area rife with hipsters. But I'm too geeky to be a hipster. ;)
88
Oops, that first line should read: I take issue with the "idea" not with the "fact". *sigh* Too quick on the "post" button.
89
Eva, thanks for sharing. I meant specifically on this point, though, and I believe I said as much when I said that. I'm sorry if that came across as "I know better than all you so shut up." (Except to the kid haters here. I enjoyed tweaking you putzes.)
90
Matt: okiedoke. I get a lot of "you don't have a kid, so how could you know" attitude from 'mongst my child-having friends. And, you did mention it was speicifcally this point so - everybody's happy. Have a good weekend.
91
-Late to the party-
Dan, I had the *exact* same reaction when I read the Oprah news item. Liz sounds like a crazy bitch. Why is it OK to say this about Haggard's wife but not Liz Edwards?
Oh, also: John Edwards = douchy egomaniacal fake class warrior.
Dan, I had the *exact* same reaction when I read the Oprah news item. Liz sounds like a crazy bitch. Why is it OK to say this about Haggard's wife but not Liz Edwards?
Oh, also: John Edwards = douchy egomaniacal fake class warrior.
92
This man humiliated her and made her kept shut and put on a farce so that he could advance his political aspirations.
Yeah, but now she's Secretary of State.
Wait a minute, who are we talking about again? Are we saying it's better to have your girltoy on the government payroll than on your campaign payroll?
Double standard much?
Yeah, but now she's Secretary of State.
Wait a minute, who are we talking about again? Are we saying it's better to have your girltoy on the government payroll than on your campaign payroll?
Double standard much?
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